Movesets for Shiftry and Sceptile

[AUfan]

So Shiftry and Sceptile are two of my favorite grass pokemon. Im working on making movesets for them and I need some help. Iv seen Shiftry's movesets on smogon but his smogon page is slightly outdated (preplatinum), and Shiftry has the ability to learn a couple of good stab physical attacks from platinum movetutors - seed bomb and sucker punch. Because Shiftry's physical attack is higher than his special attack, I figured I would go with a Physical SD Shiftry. This is what I came up with:

Shiftry

252 atk evs, 252 spe evs, 4 hp evs
Swords Dance
Seed Bomb
Sucker Punch
Rock Slide (super effective against 4 of Shiftry's weaknesses)
Item: Life Orb

so my big question is this: what nature Shiftry should I have? Adamant or Jolly?

Now on to Sceptile. My big question here is what would do more damage? Leaf Blade has more power than energy ball but Sceptile's Special Attack is higher than his Physical Attack Stat. Im trying to make a Sceptile Sweeper, and trying to decide whether to go physical or special.

Any help here would be appreciated. thanks in advance.

[Tranquil Leafeon]

Originally Posted by AUfan

So Shiftry and Sceptile are two of my favorite grass pokemon. Im working on making movesets for them and I need some help. Iv seen Shiftry's movesets on smogon but his smogon page is slightly outdated (preplatinum), and Shiftry has the ability to learn a couple of good stab physical attacks from platinum movetutors - seed bomb and sucker punch. Because Shiftry's physical attack is higher than his special attack, I figured I would go with a Physical SD Shiftry. This is what I came up with:

Shiftry

252 atk evs, 252 spe evs, 4 hp evs
Swords Dance
Seed Bomb
Sucker Punch
Rock Slide (super effective against 4 of Shiftry's weaknesses)
Item: Life Orb

so my big question is this: what nature Shiftry should I have? Adamant or Jolly?

Well, I'm quite biased towards +Spd Natures because I absolutely hate being outrun and killed by things with a lower base Speed than me. However, you have Sucker Punch to help remedy this, as it always goes first. I will always say Jolly just because that's me, but Adamant works perfectly fine in this case (arguably better, but not in my opinion). As a side note, I might point out that you are completely walled by Steel types who don't have a secondary type that is weak to Grass, Dark, or Rock. Brick Break>Rock Slide gets perfect coverage except for Toxicroak with Seed Bomb and Sucker Punch, I think.

Now on to Sceptile. My big question here is what would do more damage? Leaf Blade has more power than energy ball but Sceptile's Special Attack is higher than his Physical Attack Stat. Im trying to make a Sceptile Sweeper, and trying to decide whether to go physical or special.

Any help here would be appreciated. thanks in advance.

Sceptile also has Leaf Storm on his Special side, remember. The decision is up to what you need more on your team. However, the only stat he can boost is his Attack, using Swords Dance. Either a Specs set or a SD set works great on Sceptile, so pick which one suits your team better.

Hope I helped you.

[Master of Puppets]

Here are the choices for Physical or Special Sceptile:

Sceptlie @ Choice Specs (Special)
Timid/Modest Nature
EVs: 6HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
Ability: Overgrow
~ Grass Knot
~ Dragon Pulse/HP Ice
~ Focus Blast/HP Fire
~ Leaf Storm

Grass Knot is for STAB, Dragon Pulse/HP Ice for Dragons. Focus Blast for Tyranitar/Heatran. Go with HP Fire if you're going with Dragon Pusle for type coverage. Or with Focus Blast and HP Ice

Sceptile @ Choice Band (Physical)
Jolly/Adamant Nature
EVs: 6HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
Overgrow
~ Leaf Blade
~ Dragon Claw
~ Earthquake/Brick Break/Focus Punch
~ Thunderpunch/Crunch/Pursuit

Leaf Blade is the STAB attack and Dragon Claw to get rid of Salamence/Dragonite. I think you should go with Brick Break and Thunderpunch to get lots of type coverage, but it's up to you. EDIT:Oh, and if you don't want the Choice Band you have Swords Dance as an option too.

[ShadyInferno]

Rock Slide will unfortunately not do very much damage to anything that's weak to it. After an Intimidate from Gyarados or Salamence, it turns out to be very weak. I recommend using a mixed sweeper set on a Sunny Day team.

Shiftry @ Life Orb
Naive or Hasty
EV's: 252 ATK, 116 Speed, 142 SPATK (you can play around with those EV's depending on what moveset you choose.)
Ability: Chlorophyll
-Seed Bomb/SolarBeam
-HP Fire/HP Ground/Brick Break
-Dark Pulse/Sucker Punch
-Explosion/Brick Break/Nasty Plot/Swords Dance

I would recommend Seed Bomb over SolarBeam unless you have Brick Break. SolarBeam gets destroyed by Sandstorm which is why Seed Bomb might be better. But Brick Break OHKO's Tyranitar, and once he's gone, your pretty much free to dish out SolarBeams in the sun (unless they also have Hippowdon.)
HP Fire is for steel pokemon who are foolish enough to switch into you. With the boost from Sunny Day and Life Orb it should OHKO almost all steels. HP Ground would be for Heatran who could cause a lot of trouble. But if you have Brick Break, HP Ground is unnecessary.
Dark Pulse is a great STAB attack and provides coverage on all the pokemon that aren't hurt by Grass, Ground, Fire, and Fighting. It specifically helps against Flying and Dragon pokemon. It also has a chance of flinching which is always useful. I don't recommend Sucker Punch, but it's an option nonetheless.
Explosion is always an excellent move to have. It comes in handy surprisingly often. You can use it to get rid of annoying Flying and Dragon pokemon or you can use it to quickly eliminate pokemon like Blissey. But if you want to boost your power a bit you could go with Nasty Plot to power up HP Fire and Dark Pulse (if you have them) or Swords Dance to power up Seed Bomb and Brick Break (if you're using them). Brick Break is also an option in the final slot since it provides excellent coverage when combined with the rest of your attacks.

[Tranquil Leafeon]

Originally Posted by ShadyInferno

Rock Slide will unfortunately not do very much damage to anything that's weak to it. After an Intimidate from Gyarados or Salamence, it turns out to be very weak. I recommend using a mixed sweeper set on a Sunny Day team.

Shiftry @ Life Orb
Naive or Hasty
EV's: 252 ATK, 116 Speed, 142 SPATK (you can play around with those EV's depending on what moveset you choose.)
Ability: Chlorophyll
-Seed Bomb/SolarBeam
-HP Fire/HP Ground/Brick Break
-Dark Pulse/Sucker Punch
-Explosion/Brick Break/Nasty Plot/Swords Dance

I would recommend Seed Bomb over SolarBeam unless you have Brick Break. SolarBeam gets destroyed by Sandstorm which is why Seed Bomb might be better. But Brick Break OHKO's Tyranitar, and once he's gone, your pretty much free to dish out SolarBeams in the sun (unless they also have Hippowdon.)
HP Fire is for steel pokemon who are foolish enough to switch into you. With the boost from Sunny Day and Life Orb it should OHKO almost all steels. HP Ground would be for Heatran who could cause a lot of trouble. But if you have Brick Break, HP Ground is unnecessary.
Dark Pulse is a great STAB attack and provides coverage on all the pokemon that aren't hurt by Grass, Ground, Fire, and Fighting. It specifically helps against Flying and Dragon pokemon. It also has a chance of flinching which is always useful. I don't recommend Sucker Punch, but it's an option nonetheless.
Explosion is always an excellent move to have. It comes in handy surprisingly often. You can use it to get rid of annoying Flying and Dragon pokemon or you can use it to quickly eliminate pokemon like Blissey. But if you want to boost your power a bit you could go with Nasty Plot to power up HP Fire and Dark Pulse (if you have them) or Swords Dance to power up Seed Bomb and Brick Break (if you're using them). Brick Break is also an option in the final slot since it provides excellent coverage when combined with the rest of your attacks.

He's using this in UU, not OU. Right? Many of the factors you listed aren't relevant in UU, but in OU they are.

[ShadyInferno]

Originally Posted by Absol Power

He's using this in UU, not OU. Right? Many of the factors you listed aren't relevant in UU, but in OU they are.

Oh I didn't realize he was using it UU. I don't think he mentioned it in his post.
I don't know a good UU moveset, but the one I gave you works pretty well in OU. lol.

[Tranquil Leafeon]

Originally Posted by ShadyInferno

Oh I didn't realize he was using it UU. I don't think he mentioned it in his post.
I don't know a good UU moveset, but the one I gave you works pretty well in OU. lol.

He didn't mention it, but I assumed he'd be using it in UU because I didn't think anyone would use Shiftry or Sceptile on OU. And I agree that the set is fine.

[AUfan]

yea, this is for UU.

The reason im choosing a physical sweeping shiftry over a solarbeamer is because sunny day does not synergize well with my team at all + i already have enough special attackers.

Im choosing Sucker Punch over dark pulse because i didnt see any reason to make a mixed shiftry. I decided early on that I wanted either a Nasty plot special sweeper or a SD physical shiftry. Due to the fact that Shiftry has a slightly higher physical attack and I already have two special sweepers for my team, I figured i would go with the SD shiftry idea.

O, and I like the idea of using brick break.
So this is what i have now:

Shiftry
Adamant
252 atk, 252 Spe, 4hp
Swords Dance
Seed Bomb
Sucker Punch
Brick Break

[Cosmos]

In my past experience, altho i doubt it is the best sceptile strategy, I have used a leech seed special sweeper. Here it is:

Sceptile@Choice Specs
Nature: Timid*
EVs: 252 Spatk 252 Spd 4 HP
1. Leech Seed (Scare the enemy away with the correct typing and seed away)
2. Leaf Storm
3. Focus Blast (Kills off many major threats like Heatran and Scarfed Flamethrower using Tyranitar)
4. Hidden Power Ice (OHKOs threats like Garchomp/Salamence with 4x Effectiveness)

One of the major problems for this set is Weavile, who will annihilate poor lil Sceppy D:

*As Sceptile is not exactly a tank, you need as much speed as possible, as well as the choice specs to hit hard.

[Tranquil Leafeon]

Originally Posted by Cosmos

In my past experience, altho i doubt it is the best sceptile strategy, I have used a leech seed special sweeper. Here it is:

Sceptile@Choice Specs
Nature: Timid*
EVs: 252 Spatk 252 Spd 4 HP
1. Leech Seed (Scare the enemy away with the correct typing and seed away)
2. Leaf Storm
3. Focus Blast (Kills off many major threats like Heatran and Scarfed Flamethrower using Tyranitar)
4. Hidden Power Ice (OHKOs threats like Garchomp/Salamence with 4x Effectiveness)

One of the major problems for this set is Weavile, who will annihilate poor lil Sceppy D:

*As Sceptile is not exactly a tank, you need as much speed as possible, as well as the choice specs to hit hard.

He's using Sceptile in UU, so things like T-tar and Salamence aren't threats. I'm not sure how effective Choiced Leech Seed is, but I guess it could work. I'd use a Life Orb over CS since you have it, but it might still work with Specs.

[Cosmos]

Whoops my bad forgot that Tyanitar wasn't in UU D:

[Viva la Gofre]

Choiced leech seed is pretty awful idea anyway. Not only is it simply a glorified attempt at PHazing which grass types are immune to, but since when has it been a sweepers job to PHaze? No, I really don't see where that could be useful and I certainly can't think of a time where a poke with roar would be inferior.

[Cosmos]

If you do choiced seed you can just switch out to a dusknoir and then proceed to burn and confuse. I do this all the time in shoddy battle OU and it works well. Then later after you burn and confuse you can just force a switch with sceptile again and pwn them. One other little strategy that I like is the following:

Sceptile@Big Root / Leftovers
Nature: Timid
Same EVs
1. Leech Seed
2. Giga Drain
3. Toxic
4. Protect

It works as a drainer and a staller while they take massive poison dmg and seed dmg, however, a breloom works better this way because of spore.

[Viva la Gofre]

That doesn't change the point that something with roar could do that a whole lot better, since quite a few pokes really won't mind leech seed for a turn or two if you're attempting to stop them set up. Likewise dusknoir's burn can usually be seen coming and they'll switch out of its way rather than the seed and you may as well have switched 'Noir in first, wouldn't you? As for big root, unless you're sapping health off of something like blissey or snorlax leftovers recovery provides a larger and more consistent health regeneration, and is far less situational than big root which is really sub-par.

EDIT: If you're saying you'd use it to pass recovery, then wish-passing is again vastly superior- the chunk of health recieved outweighs quite a few turns of seed recovery, and will still appear regardless of whether or not your opponent switches. Passing leech seed is far too dependant on your opponent twiddling their thumbs and doing nothing.

[Cosmos]

I've used that moveset many times and it works for me so... yeah. Its ok.