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Pokemon: General Board General discussion about Pokemon in general. If the topic of your thread does not fall into the subjects in the other boards, post it there. In other words, everything else belongs here if it doesn't have a board of its own.


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  #16  
Old 04-30-2009, 06:28 AM
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Default Re: Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

Well, well, well... isn't this a stupid arguement... lemme clear things out for you in a non-flaming way.

Oh god, guide me in this long post full of quotes.

Quote:
Okay, let me begin by saying that I truly enjoy Pokemon. I have played Pokemon from Red and Blue to Platinum, and have never got tired of it. However, these last few generations have really made me think about some things. For one thing, it seems like it is almost impossible to just play through the game and have fun if you really want to raise strong Pokemon. You can train your Pokemon fairly, work hard to get them awesome TM's, breed excellent egg moves, and fight to gain experience throughout the course of the game. Guess what though? All of that hard work doesn't seem to matter.
What doesn't seem to matter is your idea. Pokemon is beginning to be a strategy game to improve other people's strengths and capabilities to actually TRAIN their pokemon to be stronger and to compete in competitive battles. Maybe you're just too lazy enough to do those works to strengthen your pokemon.

Quote:
Call me sentimental and all that, but I always really like my starter Pokemon, and keep it on my team constantly. However, it is virtually impossible to EV train your starter Pokemon in a way that really makes it strong. Any Pokemon it battles throughout the course of the storyline will throw off its EV's.
Listen buddy... have you ever thought of:

"Breeding your starter and EV train it to be stronger or trade with others to get all starters and breed and EV train them to be strong as well"?

Quote:
So, in light of EV training, does that always mean your starter Pokemon ends up being extremely sub-par in the end? It's like you get to a point in the game where you have to abandon all of the Pokemon you worked hard to train over the course of the game and trade them in for meticulously trained EV'd forms to even have a chance at winning battles competitively.
Like I said, you breed your starter to be a strong one and EV train it and there yah go, a strong starter. = _ =

Quote:
Then, there is the whole process of EV training itself. Battling hundreds of lv. 15 Gastlys in the Old Chateau to raise my Sp. Atk. is not exactly my idea of fun.
If it isn't fun then do not EV train at all... like everyone said,

NO ONE is forcing you to EV train...

Quote:
It is monotonous and boring to the extreme.
In case you haven't realized, EV training not only tests your pokemon but it also tests you how patient you are... if you're patient enough to actually list the EVs gained and EV train one yourself, your reward is a strong pokemon good enough to compete in competitive battling.

Quote:
The whole Pokerus thing and Power Items do not really speed up the process all that much either. I've tried them and wasn't impressed.
What do you mean doesn't speed up the process!?

Battle a bidoof with a whismur with pokerus and power weights... I'll do it for you and even COMPARE it to you...

A regular bidoof only gives 1 EV for HP, battling a regular bidoof without anything would take YEARS to EV train in a single stat... but with pokerus and the power weight:

Regular Bidoof = 1 EV for HP
Power Weight = 4 EVs (or +1 stat) for HP
Pokerus = doubles the total amt. of EVs..

and you already get a total of 10 EVs, in just a single BIDOOF!!

With the power items, I can EV train up to 10 pokemon in a single day, WITH stops.

Quote:
The whole thing is just kind of silly when you think about it. If you really were in a real Pokemon world, how would battling hundreds of weak little Pokemon make you stronger?
That's why it's a GAME!! G-A-M-E, game!!

You're thinking about reality too much... >= l

Have you ever thought how people gain experience points by punching your enemy in school!? Well I'll tell you how...

YOU DON'T!!

Quote:
Pokemon games are about having fun, but EV training is really sucking all the joy out of it. You can't just catch a Pokemon and feel the thrill of catching it.
It IS fun, after EV training your pokemon you can battle many peeps all over the world and battle them with your uber EVd mons and if you actually won, you can receive many challenges WHICH is considered fun...

Quote:
First, you have to check its nature, then before you can even battle with it the way you want, you have to be so very careful and meticulously raise its EV's. I caught 30 Finneons yesterday before I got one with a beneficial nature.
Dude... there are NUMEROUS or in your language, COUNTLESS ways of having pokemon with a benificial nature... try catching dittos, ALL must have different natures... if you want to breed someone with a perfect nature, get one of your dittos with the nature you want and give it an everstone and breed both of them in the daycare... lemme explain it clearly.

Example, you want an Adamant Finneon.

You get one of your ditto which has an Adamant nature and give it an everstone to hold.

Breed a useless finneon/lumineon and the adamant ditto w/ everstone.

It gives a 50% chance that the offspring will have the nature of the ditto...

Quote:
I think the whole concept of EV training is good,
Ahh... finally, a good compliment...

Quote:
but the whole process needs to be completely re-worked in the next generation of Pokemon.
Okay... I take back what I've said... >= l

Quote:
I think you should battle Pokemon and gain EV points in an EV point pool. Then, you can go someplace in the game (maybe at the Pokemon Center) to distribute all of those points you achieved by battling into whatever stat you want. The whole notion of different Pokemon giving you different types of EV's needs to be done away with.
That would make things a whole lot easier!! I know this is what you want but like I've said countless times, EV training tests how patient you are to actually EV train your pokemon.

Use power items and get pokerus, oh wait... "it doesn't speed up things..." yah right...

Quote:
How do I cope in this Pokemon environment?
Be patient enough to EV train your pokemon!!

Quote:
I have no choice but to use my Action Replay (which I hate to do) and EV train my Pokemon that way.
Then you're not a fair competitive battler... many or even BILLIONS of pokemon fans EV their pokemon manually, not using AR.

Quote:
Sorry, but at least I can use the Pokemon I battled my way through the game with competitively as well.
You DO know that AI (artificial intelligence) enemies are weaker than real enemies right? They are weaker against ALL of the pokemon players here... even with the E4 and Cynthia... > _ <;

Quote:
Right now it seems as though cheating is the only way to have strong Pokemon AND have fun. Something isn't right about that.
You're right... something isn't right about that, and you know what it is?

It is YOU cheating your way just for fun... >= l

Sorry if I sound flaming but I'm pretty sure many of us would want to answer this RIDICULOUS statement about this... >= l

To summarize the statement given by someone... YOU'RE TOO LAZY TO EV TRAIN AND NOT PATIENT ENOUGH TO EVEN EV TRAIN A POKEMON!!

Thank you... >= l
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  #17  
Old 04-30-2009, 04:11 PM
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Default Re: Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

I don't like EV training, that is why I don't do it
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  #18  
Old 04-30-2009, 04:29 PM
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Default Re: Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

i win thousands of wi-fi battles without EV training. i train my guys with the trainers by route 30, that two aces. with the money, i buy calciums etc to train my pokemons. point.
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  #19  
Old 04-30-2009, 04:57 PM
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Default Re: Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by black fury View Post
i win thousands of wi-fi battles without EV training. i train my guys with the trainers by route 30, that two aces. with the money, i buy calciums etc to train my pokemons. point.
Either your lying, you got extreme lucky hax, or your opponent didn't EV either.
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  #20  
Old 05-01-2009, 04:25 AM
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Default Re: Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Politoed Hunter View Post
Either your lying, you got extreme lucky hax, or your opponent didn't EV either.
I'm guessing the first one.

You can always use AR and pokesav to make your teams to battle competitively.(which most people do)
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  #21  
Old 05-01-2009, 11:40 AM
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Default Re: Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

It shouldn't because it's your choice to Iv breed/Ev train your pokemon and you don't have to. Of course there are always short cut's to do this however (Action replay codes/pokesav).
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  #22  
Old 05-01-2009, 01:35 PM
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Default Re: Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Politoed Hunter View Post
Either your lying, you got extreme lucky hax, or your opponent didn't EV either.
well, my bro EV and IV trains ALOT, and its pokemons aren't an match for that of me. EV training isn't that necesarry.
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  #23  
Old 05-01-2009, 01:44 PM
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Default Re: Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

I did EV train when I got my diamond, but it was a pain. Like the first time I started Ev training, it was my Charizard. And I went to the Old Chateau to train for S.Attack on Gastly's. I did everything correctly, like I put Pokerus, gave it the right power item, and went to the right place. But at the end when it grew a level, it only raised the S.Attack by 12. So I never did that again. But yesterday, I happened to get a good natured Sunkern at the day care. So I was all like, "what the heck, I'll try to Ev train this". So I did, and I went to the Old Chateau for S.Attack Ev training. But at the end when I was done, it only gained 12 more points in S.Attack just like my Charizard. And it is just annoying, so I don't know if I will keep on Ev training more.....
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  #24  
Old 05-01-2009, 02:58 PM
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Default Re: Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn_PiplupFan1 View Post
I did EV train when I got my diamond, but it was a pain. Like the first time I started Ev training, it was my Charizard. And I went to the Old Chateau to train for S.Attack on Gastly's. I did everything correctly, like I put Pokerus, gave it the right power item, and went to the right place. But at the end when it grew a level, it only raised the S.Attack by 12. So I never did that again. But yesterday, I happened to get a good natured Sunkern at the day care. So I was all like, "what the heck, I'll try to Ev train this". So I did, and I went to the Old Chateau for S.Attack Ev training. But at the end when I was done, it only gained 12 more points in S.Attack just like my Charizard. And it is just annoying, so I don't know if I will keep on Ev training more.....
Was that after you got it to it's maximum Sp. Attack value that it can have with it's nature? If you're unsure on this, look at Bulbapedia which gives you a table with what it's maximum Sp. Attack possible after fully completing it. It sounds like you've just raised it a few levels and thought 'that's crap'. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

Oh, and Charizard's maximum Sp. Attack, with a beneficial nature is, 348 (At level 100)
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  #25  
Old 05-01-2009, 03:39 PM
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Default Re: Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

To answer the main topic question: Yes, I do think that EV and IV training is ruining Pokemon. I read some of the reply's to this topic, and here's what I have to say. If you enjoy EV training, I'm not gunna bash you and tell you it's stupid and you're ruining it for everyone else. If you like EVing, go for it, whatever makes you happy. I know a majority of Pokemon players EV train, and that's their choice. But on the other end, I love to battle other trainers. Now a days, it's hard to find someone to battle who isn't EV trained (seeing as a un-EV'd team stands little to no chance against a EV'd). And, I still take into account types, beneficial moves etc, but you can't ask for help in the strategy section when it comes to making competitive non-EV'd teams. If you go in and simply ask for help with movesets, you'll get "In-Game/Non-EV'd teams don't need help, you can play with a team of Butterfree and win". Personally, I think that is extremely disrespectful. People who don't EV train have just as much right to come onto PE2K or any other Pokemon forum and ask for help with a non-EV'd team.
To restate, I do think EV/IV training is ruining Pokemon.
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  #26  
Old 05-01-2009, 04:02 PM
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Default Re: Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

i think: EV and IV training isn't fair. it takes...(insert long time here)! if you do it, you (probably) win all wi-fi fights! if you don't, you end up losing!

kinda mine opinion
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  #27  
Old 05-01-2009, 04:18 PM
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Default Re: Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by black fury View Post
i think: EV and IV training isn't fair. it takes...(insert long time here)! if you do it, you (probably) win all wi-fi fights! if you don't, you end up losing!

kinda mine opinion
That's not really a valid opinion on to why it is unfair. If it is so unfair, don't EV train, or, battle against others you know don't EV either.

Besides, I thought you could take down EV'd teams with your normal Pokemon?
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  #28  
Old 05-01-2009, 04:20 PM
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Default Re: Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

i know, but its just in case of my pokemons don't rock
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  #29  
Old 05-02-2009, 10:34 AM
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Default Re: Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

Wanna know somewhere were we don't use IVs or EVs...?

URPG!

Anyways, no I don't. The game makers put them in for more strategy and if you can't be patient or go get Pokesav then just don't do it. You don't know what's best for the Pokemon games, sorry.
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  #30  
Old 05-03-2009, 12:48 AM
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Default Re: Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

To Dawn_PiplupFan1:

Bear in mind that 4 EV's is equal to 1 stat increase at level 100. Doesn't sound like much, right? 252 EV's in a stat = +63 points in that stat at level 100, which is pretty hefty. Also gives you an edge at lower levels as well, I think.
~~~
I sympathize with the original poster, though I did find it odd how the poster wasn't impressed by the EV-boosting items. Especially as 100 EV's could be gotten right off the bat with vitamins. Sadly, Pokerus is rather rare, so blah.

The main issue I've had was with something I've never tried, namely breeding, which truly sounds tedious. Say you want a Kingdra with a specific nature *and* ability. That might take a while, or so is my impression which might be mistaken.

So I have tended to stick with what I caught, which worked fine enough.

I think the theory behind the EV in-game is that your Pokemon "learn" from the battling styles of other Pokemon.

Platinum Battle Frontier: Getting the silver symbols should be no sweat without EV trained Pokes. This is assuming you looked up the Brains' Pokemon off of Bulbapedia or something, but even if you didn't, it shouldn't be too bad. Beating a Frontier Brain gets 20 BP right off the bat, and you can rechallenge them for the "silver" medal after getting the number-of-wins-for-silver, even if you already got the silver.
~~~
No coherent message behind this post, but I want to say this:

For me, with the actual game, I'm not too big on EV's/IV's/natures. If I want to battle with other people, I stick with Shoddy, where I can make teams more easily *and* find skillful opponents. Even if they do have a tendency to beat me, but hey, at least I can gain some EV points myself in stall/bulky offense/etc. (Lame crack, I know.)
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