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Pokemon: General Board General discussion about Pokemon in general. If the topic of your thread does not fall into the subjects in the other boards, post it there. In other words, everything else belongs here if it doesn't have a board of its own.


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  #1  
Old 04-29-2009, 08:05 PM
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Default Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

Okay, let me begin by saying that I truly enjoy Pokemon. I have played Pokemon from Red and Blue to Platinum, and have never got tired of it. However, these last few generations have really made me think about some things. For one thing, it seems like it is almost impossible to just play through the game and have fun if you really want to raise strong Pokemon. You can train your Pokemon fairly, work hard to get them awesome TM's, breed excellent egg moves, and fight to gain experience throughout the course of the game. Guess what though? All of that hard work doesn't seem to matter.

Call me sentimental and all that, but I always really like my starter Pokemon, and keep it on my team constantly. However, it is virtually impossible to EV train your starter Pokemon in a way that really makes it strong. Any Pokemon it battles throughout the course of the storyline will throw off its EV's. So, in light of EV training, does that always mean your starter Pokemon ends up being extremely sub-par in the end? It's like you get to a point in the game where you have to abandon all of the Pokemon you worked hard to train over the course of the game and trade them in for meticulously trained EV'd forms to even have a chance at winning battles competitively.

Then, there is the whole process of EV training itself. Battling hundreds of lv. 15 Gastlys in the Old Chateau to raise my Sp. Atk. is not exactly my idea of fun. It is monotonous and boring to the extreme. The whole Pokerus thing and Power Items do not really speed up the process all that much either. I've tried them and wasn't impressed. The whole thing is just kind of silly when you think about it. If you really were in a real Pokemon world, how would battling hundreds of weak little Pokemon make you stronger?

Pokemon games are about having fun, but EV training is really sucking all the joy out of it. You can't just catch a Pokemon and feel the thrill of catching it. First, you have to check its nature, then before you can even battle with it the way you want, you have to be so very careful and meticulously raise its EV's. I caught 30 Finneons yesterday before I got one with a beneficial nature.

I think the whole concept of EV training is good, but the whole process needs to be completely re-worked in the next generation of Pokemon. I think you should battle Pokemon and gain EV points in an EV point pool. Then, you can go someplace in the game (maybe at the Pokemon Center) to distribute all of those points you achieved by battling into whatever stat you want. The whole notion of different Pokemon giving you different types of EV's needs to be done away with.

How do I cope in this Pokemon environment? I have no choice but to use my Action Replay (which I hate to do) and EV train my Pokemon that way. Sorry, but at least I can use the Pokemon I battled my way through the game with competitively as well. Right now it seems as though cheating is the only way to have strong Pokemon AND have fun. Something isn't right about that.
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  #2  
Old 04-29-2009, 08:18 PM
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Default Re: Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

You say that EV training sucks the fun out of the game, that EV training is hard, that it's boring, and that you have to use your Action Replay to do so, but let me ask you: Why do you even bother? Like you said, this game is for fun, and EV training sucks the fun out of it for you. If you don't like it, don't do it. Nobody is forcing you to have excellent strong pokemon, or even battle competitively.
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:23 PM
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Default Re: Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

what you are describing now is competitive battling.
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  #4  
Old 04-29-2009, 08:32 PM
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Default Re: Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

I don't really care for EV training. Maybe you could try competitive battling with a non-EV'd team and see how it goes? Meh, I dunno. I don't like doing it, either. Too meticulous.

I don't, however, think it sucks out the fun. That's just me, though.
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  #5  
Old 04-29-2009, 08:36 PM
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Default Re: Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

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Originally Posted by Kendo View Post
I don't really care for EV training. Maybe you could try competitive battling with a non-EV'd team and see how it goes? Meh, I dunno. I don't like doing it, either. Too meticulous.

I don't, however, think it sucks out the fun. That's just me, though.

Nah, non-EV'd pokemon simply can't compete with fully trained pokemon on wifi. They just lack the power/defense. I used to play my friends with ubers, and non-EV trains, and I had a blast with pokemon. You don't need to EV train to have fun is what I've been saying.
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Old 04-29-2009, 08:58 PM
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Default Re: Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

Good points everyone. You're right. No one is FORCING me to EV train, but as Broderick said, battling competitively is almost impossible without EV trained powerhouses. I guess for me after I beat the game and run out of things to do, I like to really try and competitively battle. I do have a question for anyone who has made it to the Platinum Battle Frontier yet. Do you have to have EV'd Pokemon to make any real progress in the Frontier? If not, then I may just not EV train at all.
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  #7  
Old 04-29-2009, 09:00 PM
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Default Re: Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

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Originally Posted by WarpStar View Post
Good points everyone. You're right. No one is FORCING me to EV train, but as Broderick said, battling competitively is almost impossible without EV trained powerhouses. I guess for me after I beat the game and run out of things to do, I like to really try and competitively battle. I do have a question for anyone who has made it to the Platinum Battle Frontier yet. Do you have to have EV'd Pokemon to make any real progress in the Frontier? If not, then I may just not EV train at all.
It's definetly easier with EV trains (loltradedoverpowerhousesfromdiamond), but I'm sure you can beat it with regular pokemon.
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Old 04-29-2009, 11:53 PM
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Default Re: Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

No. I don't really mind.
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  #9  
Old 04-30-2009, 12:07 AM
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Exclamation Re: Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WarpStar View Post
Then, there is the whole process of EV training itself. Battling hundreds of lv. 15 Gastlys in the Old Chateau to raise my Sp. Atk. is not exactly my idea of fun. It is monotonous and boring to the extreme. The whole Pokerus thing and Power Items do not really speed up the process all that much either. I've tried them and wasn't impressed. The whole thing is just kind of silly when you think about it. If you really were in a real Pokemon world, how would battling hundreds of weak little Pokemon make you stronger?
The part that I bolded really struck me as odd...

Take for instance when I was just EV training my Gengar...

It has Pokerus and was holding the Power Lens. For each Gastly I defeated in the Old Chateau, I gained 10 (1+4x2) EV's towards my Special Attack. After using 10 Calciums to begin with and defeating 16 Gastly's I was done EV training my Gengar in Special Attack. The whole process of EV training can easily be done in about 20 minutes.

How you say it doesn't speed up the process of training is totally false.
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  #10  
Old 04-30-2009, 12:11 AM
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Default Re: Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

I don't EV train because it's boring. I'm not going to waste my time EV training (or IV training) a Pokemon when I could be doing something else. Sure, I could do it when I'm bored but other than that heck no.
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Old 04-30-2009, 12:12 AM
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Default Re: Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

I say yes and no. Sure, they're kind of not fun for the most part, but then again, it pays off once you actually do compete with your EV'd/IV'd Pokémon... at least that's what I think.
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  #12  
Old 04-30-2009, 12:14 AM
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Default Re: Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

If you want to just play the game as in the storyline then you don't need to EV or IV train. It really doesn't matter. Now if you want to go into competitive battling then you need to at least EV train your pokemon. I admit that it is boring but really when you start EV training your pokemon for battling you will be done with the main storyline.

I didn't start EV training pokemon till after I got done with the main storyline and by then that was getting boring for me. I only touch my Pearl to do EV training and breeding. As i said before, it does get boring EV training and breeding without using the right dittos. Still once you start competitive battling you get your fun from the awesome battles you have with different people. Even if you lose the match, the battle was still awesome.

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Old 04-30-2009, 01:32 AM
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Default Re: Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

I can honestly say I absolutely hate EV training. I hate it. The fact that I've never gotten Pokerus (I like to call it Poke-Herpes ^^) to date, and I don't have the patience to sit through the Battle Tower battles (I have Diamond) to rack up points for items, it's just too much of a pain to me.

Although, I do have one EV'd team. Trust me, it really pays off. Here's a little story for you:

I was battling my friend and my team was 252 Atk. 252 HP. and 4 Spd. Honchkrow Lvl 95, 252 Sp. Atk. 252. Spd. 4 Mismagius Lvl 89, 252 Def. 252. Atk. 4 HP Skuntank 89, an un-EV'd(but raised to 100 from Level 5) Empoleon, 252 Atk. 252 Sp. Def. 4 HP Electivire Lvl. 93 and a 252 Sp. Atk. 252 Spd. 4 HP Infernape Lvl 100. My friend I was battling had Palkia, Dialga, Darkrai, Arceus, Shaymin, and Giratina with NO EV's, IV's, etc. etc. all raised to 100 with Rare Candies. I sent out Honchkrow and Skuntank first and my friend sent Dialga and Palkia.

The battle ended like so: Skuntank wasn't touched, Honchkrow was barely in the yellow, and the other 4 Pokemon didn't even see the light of day. My friend accused me of cheating even though he had AR.

Long story short-- EV training really pays off, especially when you find a 6 year old with a team of un-EV'd Arceus and you have 4 EV'd Pokemon, you'll win.
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Old 04-30-2009, 03:59 AM
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Default Re: Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajarr View Post
I don't EV train because it's boring. I'm not going to waste my time EV training (or IV training) a Pokemon when I could be doing something else. Sure, I could do it when I'm bored but other than that heck no.
You can't IV train. Only breed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WarpStar View Post
Okay, let me begin by saying that I truly enjoy Pokemon. I have played Pokemon from Red and Blue to Platinum, and have never got tired of it. However, these last few generations have really made me think about some things. For one thing, it seems like it is almost impossible to just play through the game and have fun if you really want to raise strong Pokemon. You can train your Pokemon fairly, work hard to get them awesome TM's, breed excellent egg moves, and fight to gain experience throughout the course of the game. Guess what though? All of that hard work doesn't seem to matter.

Call me sentimental and all that, but I always really like my starter Pokemon, and keep it on my team constantly. However, it is virtually impossible to EV train your starter Pokemon in a way that really makes it strong. Any Pokemon it battles throughout the course of the storyline will throw off its EV's. So, in light of EV training, does that always mean your starter Pokemon ends up being extremely sub-par in the end? It's like you get to a point in the game where you have to abandon all of the Pokemon you worked hard to train over the course of the game and trade them in for meticulously trained EV'd forms to even have a chance at winning battles competitively.

Then, there is the whole process of EV training itself. Battling hundreds of lv. 15 Gastlys in the Old Chateau to raise my Sp. Atk. is not exactly my idea of fun. It is monotonous and boring to the extreme. The whole Pokerus thing and Power Items do not really speed up the process all that much either. I've tried them and wasn't impressed. The whole thing is just kind of silly when you think about it. If you really were in a real Pokemon world, how would battling hundreds of weak little Pokemon make you stronger?

Pokemon games are about having fun, but EV training is really sucking all the joy out of it. You can't just catch a Pokemon and feel the thrill of catching it. First, you have to check its nature, then before you can even battle with it the way you want, you have to be so very careful and meticulously raise its EV's. I caught 30 Finneons yesterday before I got one with a beneficial nature.

I think the whole concept of EV training is good, but the whole process needs to be completely re-worked in the next generation of Pokemon. I think you should battle Pokemon and gain EV points in an EV point pool. Then, you can go someplace in the game (maybe at the Pokemon Center) to distribute all of those points you achieved by battling into whatever stat you want. The whole notion of different Pokemon giving you different types of EV's needs to be done away with.

How do I cope in this Pokemon environment? I have no choice but to use my Action Replay (which I hate to do) and EV train my Pokemon that way. Sorry, but at least I can use the Pokemon I battled my way through the game with competitively as well. Right now it seems as though cheating is the only way to have strong Pokemon AND have fun. Something isn't right about that.
Listen, not everyone likes EV training or IV breeding. I for one, enjoy EV training but I HATE IV breeding with a passion. I don't know how some people do it - with or without an AR. I am proud to say I've never used an AR nor do I ever plan on it.

I think that the storyline is great but after playing it a second time on Platinum, I just wanted to get through it. I found it boring and I knew the team I was raising was going to be useless in the end due to the random EV spreads so I just rushed through it. lol

I don't know who said it but EV training is indeed easy, especially when you're battling trainers instead of wild pokemon. I'd give you a link to a guide I wrote but I'm afraid it would count as advertising. But I'm sure you can find tons of other guides through google.
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Old 04-30-2009, 04:09 AM
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Default Re: Is EV and IV training Ruining The Fun Of Pokemon?

I, personally, don't feel that EV training affects the game at all. You mentioned that when you just battled with friends that you had a blast. If you just wanna catch Pokemon and only working on levelling them up and giving them a good moveset, then just play casually. If you really wanna play on a more competitive level, that is when you should start considering EV training. Even in online play however, I still find it fun when I play with non-EV'd Pokemon. In fact, it makes me feel even more confident when a battle is close, because that means even a team that was perfectly EV'd was barely able to beat me.

Long story short, EV training and IV breeding are ABSOLUTELY NOT in anyway forced upon the player. They merely add another element into the mix. If the only reason you find joy in Pokemon is by winning a battle, then imo, you're missing the point of the game.
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