elemental hyper beams?

[Necromancer]

can you get the move frenzy plant on sceptile and torterra? and blast burn on blaziken and infernape? and hydro cannon on swampert and empoleon? if so, how?

[Viva la Gofre]

All stage 3 starters can learn the elemental hyper beams through going to the tutor on route 228 in DP, but you really don't want them to- Two-turn moves are possibly the worst kind of move in the game.

[Electrivire]

Originally Posted by Gofre

All stage 3 starters can learn the elemental hyper beams through going to the tutor on route 228 in DP, but you really don't want them to- Two-turn moves are possibly the worst kind of move in the game.

then why do people use focus punch?

[The Politoed Hunter]

Originally Posted by Electrivire

then why do people use focus punch?

Because it actually only takes one turn, you just can't get hit. For example, in the case of Elemental Hyperbeams and Solarbeam without sunlight.

Sceptile used Frenzy Plant!
Absol at 20%
Absol used (Insert Move)
Sceptile at 50%
___ sends out Froslass
Sceptile must recharge!
Frosslass used Ice Beam
Sceptile KO!

This is the case for Focus Punch:

1st turn
Azumarill used Substitute!
Clefable used Thunder Wave
It failed...

2nd turn
Azumarill is tightening its focus!
Clefable used Grass Knot!
The substitute took damage for Azumarill
Its super effective!
The subsititute faded!
Azumarill used Focus Punch!
Its super effective!
Clefable fainted.

^All that happened on the same turn, so Focus Punch isn't a two turn move, its just tricky to use if you don't know what you are doing.

[Necromancer]

i know, i just wanted t(o know. not that im using it.

[Electrivire]

Originally Posted by The Politoed Hunter

Because it actually only takes one turn, you just can't get hit. For example, in the case of Elemental Hyperbeams and Solarbeam without sunlight.

Sceptile used Frenzy Plant!
Absol at 20%
Absol used (Insert Move)
Sceptile at 50%
___ sends out Froslass
Sceptile must recharge!
Frosslass used Ice Beam
Sceptile KO!

This is the case for Focus Punch:

1st turn
Azumarill used Substitute!
Clefable used Thunder Wave
It failed...

2nd turn
Azumarill is tightening its focus!
Clefable used Grass Knot!
The substitute took damage for Azumarill
Its super effective!
The subsititute faded!
Azumarill used Focus Punch!
Its super effective!
Clefable fainted.

^All that happened on the same turn, so Focus Punch isn't a two turn move, its just tricky to use if you don't know what you are doing.

but if clefable would've survived and attacked it would be a 2 turn move.

also if thats the case whats the difference if the person uses a sub then elemental beam

[Viva la Gofre]

Originally Posted by Electrivire

but if clefable would've survived and attacked it would be a 2 turn move.

also if thats the case whats the difference if the person uses a sub then elemental beam

No, it isn't debatable. Azumaril began the attack and finished the attack in the same turn. Therefore it is a one turn move. Hyper beam moves attack in one turn and charge in another, and vice versa for fly/solar beam etc. Therefore they are turn moves. The opponents survival has nothing to do with whether or not it is a two-turn move.

And the difference is that focus punch can potentially attack every turn. I'll give you another example (Assume that the opponent is hypothetically unkillable but can't break subs):

Azumarill:
Turn 1: Sub
Turn 2: Focus Punch
Turn 3: Focus Punch
Turn 4: Focus Punch
Turn 5: Focus Punch

Venusaur:
Turn 1:Sub
Turn 2: Frenzy Plant
Turn 3: Recharge
Turn 4: Frenzy Plant
Turn 5: Recharge

See the difference? And those are hypothetical situations. While focus punch can be reeled off every turn, hyper beam hands out coupons offering free switch-ins or set-ups. They suck, there's no denying it.

[Electrivire]

just looked up on youtube now i understand

[Necromancer]

but, if you killed an enemy with frenzy plant via wireless or WI-FI battle, don't you have an change to switch? so they can be used as finishing moves, like this:(i know some things can't be possible or blablabla.

alakazam: 100%
psychic, hit 28 %

rhyperior: 72%
stone edge, hit 41%

rhyperior recovered due to lefty, now 79%

alakazam: 59%
focus blast, miss.

rhyperior: 72%
rock wrecker, 84 %

alakazam DIED.
rhyperior switched into...


thats it, so, can it be used as an finishing move?

[Viva la Gofre]

Originally Posted by black fury

but, if you killed an enemy with frenzy plant via wireless or WI-FI battle, don't you have an change to switch? so they can be used as finishing moves, like this:(i know some things can't be possible or blablabla.

alakazam: 100%
psychic, hit 28 %

rhyperior: 72%
stone edge, hit 41%

rhyperior recovered due to lefty, now 79%

alakazam: 59%
focus blast, miss.

rhyperior: 72%
rock wrecker, 84 %

alakazam DIED.
rhyperior switched into...


thats it, so, can it be used as an finishing move?

No, you can't switch. Hyper beam moves force you to do absolutely nothing for a whole turn. Switching isn't an option, you just have tonsit there while your oppoenent has a free move. Overheat/Leaf storm are much better even with the stat drop:

Frenzy Plant:
Turn 1: Base 225 Damage (Base 150+50% Stab Bonus)
Turn 2: Recharge (No Damage)
Total damage over 2 turns: 225

Leaf Storm:
Turn 1: Base 210 Damage (Base 140+50% STAB Bonus)
Turn 2: Base 105 Damage ({Base 140+50% STAB Bonus}-50% due to -2 stage SpAtt)
Total Damage over 2 turns: 315

As you can see, Overheat/Leaf Storm are far more beneficial. You may lose 15 points of base damage (after STAB) but you get to keep both turns. You can either attack again, which even with the SpAtt drop would still be stronger as a base 100 move. But most importantly, if they switch in a poke capable of dealing a OHKO, or a poke that's going to set up in your face, you haven't given them a turn to do it. If they are going to KO you, then frenzy plant stops you from switching to a counter. If they're going to use swords dance, blast burn doesn't let you hit them first and leave them open for a revenge kill. There really isn't a situation where hyper beam moves should be used, heck even STAB surf does more damage over two turns than hydro cannon.

[Necromancer]

okay then, that settles it.

[Max-Attack]

The only case where I believe these attacks can be justified is in the third generation with Venusaur, whose other grass moves consist of the sucky Razor Leaf and Giga Drain. Within two turns, Frenzy Plant will immediately deal more damage, and its poor accuracy and PP are comparable to that of Razor Leaf and Giga Drain, respectively. Plus, if you KO the enemy, you have the option to switch him out.

In all other uses, including with any other starter and for competitive use, they are definitely useless.