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  #16  
Old 12-12-2008, 04:59 AM
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Default Re: Future of the Religious-Right?

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Originally Posted by Dr Scott View Post
Keeping this thought going, I don't see why it SHOULD matter if they're Christian-based or not. "Oh my gosh, they believe that people should be nice! OHNOEZ!"
The issue is that it DOES matter if the organization is Christian-based. The last major hurdle in American politics, one that transcends all others, IS to have a non-Christian president, after all. The fact of the matter is that Christianity is heavily ingrained within the country itself. As I would think,

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Originally Posted by Dr Scott View Post
So, I'm saying that it doesn't matter WHAT they are, which I guess is a sense of 'religion and state not mixed.' As religion has nothing to do with politics, it makes sense, and it's just asking for people to whine and moan about something that shouldn't matter. But I don't believe in it to the point where we have to change things that are fine already ...
Unfortunately, many in the country do not believe in separation between church and state. Does that give you the right of persecution against them? The fact of the matter is that religion has much to do with politics. Think of every possible ethical dilemma in which politicians have to draft laws upon to see an example of this.
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  #17  
Old 12-12-2008, 07:57 PM
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Default Re: Future of the Religious-Right?

Persecution is a big word, and its meaning is much nastier then anything I did. Besides, it wouldn't make since for me to persecute them because I am a Christian ... that would be dumb.

"to pursue with harassing or oppressive treatment, esp. because of religion, race, or beliefs; harass persistently."

And even when it comes to that it shouldn't be a religious matter, it should be a matter of what works best. Heck, not all Christians believe in the same thing anyways, I believe in woman's choice (when it comes to abortion) while the given Christian view (I'd think?) is that it's murder.

Besides, when it comes down to choices, it's usually not 'what's best' but 'what will make the most people happy.'
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  #18  
Old 12-12-2008, 11:39 PM
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Default Re: Future of the Religious-Right?

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Originally Posted by Dr Scott View Post
Persecution is a big word, and its meaning is much nastier then anything I did. Besides, it wouldn't make since for me to persecute them because I am a Christian ... that would be dumb.

"to pursue with harassing or oppressive treatment, esp. because of religion, race, or beliefs; harass persistently."

And even when it comes to that it shouldn't be a religious matter, it should be a matter of what works best. Heck, not all Christians believe in the same thing anyways, I believe in woman's choice (when it comes to abortion) while the given Christian view (I'd think?) is that it's murder.

Besides, when it comes down to choices, it's usually not 'what's best' but 'what will make the most people happy.'
Maybe that's because, well, I don't know... IT IS MURDER.

Gahhh. Stupid Democrats ruin the USA.
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  #19  
Old 12-13-2008, 03:09 AM
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Default Re: Future of the Religious-Right?

When people vote no on gay marriage or abortion, I think people have to realize- it won't affect you if two people marry, or if a women aborts her child. I mean, seriously, wouldn't God want people to be happy, and not just depressed? And I'm also a Christian, so don't start with the 'He's not Christian, he doesn't know what he's talking about', or whatever.
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  #20  
Old 12-13-2008, 05:48 AM
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Default Re: Future of the Religious-Right?

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Originally Posted by Dr Scott View Post
Persecution is a big word, and its meaning is much nastier then anything I did. Besides, it wouldn't make since for me to persecute them because I am a Christian ... that would be dumb.

"to pursue with harassing or oppressive treatment, esp. because of religion, race, or beliefs; harass persistently."

And even when it comes to that it shouldn't be a religious matter, it should be a matter of what works best. Heck, not all Christians believe in the same thing anyways, I believe in woman's choice (when it comes to abortion) while the given Christian view (I'd think?) is that it's murder.

Besides, when it comes down to choices, it's usually not 'what's best' but 'what will make the most people happy.'
In essence, that IS the issue, is it not? I very much doubt that there is a solution to that problem in the US anytime soon.

Edit: I forgot to mention that it does NOT matter what your own religion is with regards to another's religion in my earlier statement. That is, there is not inherent problem with persecuting those of your own religion if you believe they are wrong. The choice of words may be harsh, because it is still no better than what some do regardless.

Last edited by Kenny_C.002; 12-13-2008 at 04:50 PM.
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  #21  
Old 12-29-2008, 04:11 PM
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Default Re: Future of the Religious-Right?

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Originally Posted by Shadow Eevee View Post
When people vote no on gay marriage or abortion, I think people have to realize- it won't affect you if two people marry, or if a women aborts her child. I mean, seriously, wouldn't God want people to be happy, and not just depressed? And I'm also a Christian, so don't start with the 'He's not Christian, he doesn't know what he's talking about', or whatever.
Woah, back up bud, where did that come from. >.>

Me = Southern Baptist Christian. [Don't get the wrong idea, or anything. ]
The majority of Christians have ruined our rep, yo. I'm tired of it, everyone has these opinions, it's annoying.

I would want my President/Leaders to separate themselves from religion. That's like, in the constitution, or something. It's also a sin not to obey the actual laws set by world leaders in the Christian religion, and sin is sin. There's no degree or ranks of sin [Though, I guess the 10 Commandments are a little more important]...

So if you do what's best for your religion, but not for your country [or is against the law], you are pretty much canceling out both sins, and you're back where you started. It all depends on the situation, though.

Abortions alright in my book, but you better do it quick before the embryo develops.

Palin '12. >:D

Last edited by Soda; 12-29-2008 at 04:14 PM.
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  #22  
Old 01-01-2009, 02:28 PM
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Default Re: Future of the Religious-Right?

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Originally Posted by A Requiem of Verities View Post


Most of us Republicans ARE Christians. Probably most of the country is, too. So, if they got rid of them, they'll be no more than the Green Party. Besides, America was founded on Christianity. There's no one anyone can say or do to cover that, or hide it. It's undeniable.


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If I may jump on this point.

First off, not all the contributors to the Constitution were devoutly Christian, as you seem to imply. Thomas Jefferson himself did not believe Christ was God incarnate and rejected basically every miracle written in the New Testament, including Jesus's virgin birth and his resurrection. (But he did believe in Jesus's moral teachings.) Thomas Paine, author of Common Sense, was also a Deist who contributed greatly to the Constitution through his writings.

Second, just because the US had a Christian majority at the time does not mean that its government was founded on Christianity. I don't know how you can read the "separation of the Church and State" line and possibly think "oh, this is definitely a country founded on Christianity". It's not. It never was. We are not a theocracy.

Regarding the topic itself, Republicanism needs to go back to the small-government way it was. And I'm honestly surprised Republicans have held on to both evangelical principles and big-business principles at the same time for so long. Pardon me if I'm ignorant, but aren't most conservative policies aimed at making the rich richer while making the poor either stay where they are or get poorer? And aren't Christian ideals based on helping the needy? How in the world those two have stayed in one party for so long? I think a split is inevitable at this point.

Also, Sarah Palin has become the darling of the evangelical pro-lifers. Kicking her from the party guarantees the aforementioned breaking of the Republican party.
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  #23  
Old 01-01-2009, 03:09 PM
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Default Re: Future of the Religious-Right?

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Originally Posted by Larvinator View Post
If I may jump on this point.

First off, not all the contributors to the Constitution were devoutly Christian, as you seem to imply. Thomas Jefferson himself did not believe Christ was God incarnate and rejected basically every miracle written in the New Testament, including Jesus's virgin birth and his resurrection. (But he did believe in Jesus's moral teachings.) Thomas Paine, author of Common Sense, was also a Deist who contributed greatly to the Constitution through his writings.

Second, just because the US had a Christian majority at the time does not mean that its government was founded on Christianity. I don't know how you can read the "separation of the Church and State" line and possibly think "oh, this is definitely a country founded on Christianity". It's not. It never was. We are not a theocracy.

Regarding the topic itself, Republicanism needs to go back to the small-government way it was. And I'm honestly surprised Republicans have held on to both evangelical principles and big-business principles at the same time for so long. Pardon me if I'm ignorant, but aren't most conservative policies aimed at making the rich richer while making the poor either stay where they are or get poorer? And aren't Christian ideals based on helping the needy? How in the world those two have stayed in one party for so long? I think a split is inevitable at this point.

Also, Sarah Palin has become the darling of the evangelical pro-lifers. Kicking her from the party guarantees the aforementioned breaking of the Republican party.
Although we are not a theocracy, religion has surely found its way into our government in more ways than one.

Any presidential candidate isn't even considered unless he shows he has some sort of devotion to "God". "God" is mentioned in every speech, etc. Am I saying that the US government revolves around religion? No, but I am saying that religion sure does have an influence on the government.

-

On the issue of gay marriage, it's quite simple for me. Some Christians (NOT ALL) either hate gay people, or think it's wrong. Many people also say that marriage is a sacred institution that should be shared only with a man and a woman. This is extremely close-minded, and it reminds me of slavery. Many people thought that blacks didn't deserve to have the same rights as whites. This was the mass ideal because everyone was raised to know whites being the higher race. No one wanted to deviate.

I compare this to the gay marriage situation. We have known marriage as between a man and a woman, but maybe it's time that this "sacred institution" be changed.

If two men or two women get married, will it affect the man and women that are married across the country? No.

Many Christians still say homosexuality is wrong, purely because that's what their religion has told them to think for their entire life.

(Keep in mind that I am not referring to all Christians or all religious people. I realize that all Christians do not believe the same things.)
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  #24  
Old 01-03-2009, 05:58 AM
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Default Re: Future of the Religious-Right?

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I compare this to the gay marriage situation. We have known marriage as between a man and a woman, but maybe it's time that this "sacred institution" be changed.
Hey, they are always changing Christianity, so they should. Its a story in the making so lets just say every Christian has to color with the olive colored crayon too or God might send you to hell, oh no not hell! I mean damn, with a religion that's always changing, how can you even consider it to be a religion at all? I think its more of a tool.
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  #25  
Old 01-20-2009, 12:18 PM
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Default Re: Future of the Religious-Right?

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Originally Posted by Surly Professor View Post
Do the elections of 2008 mean no more strangle-hold on American politics from the religious fundamentalists?

The Republican governors recently met to try and decide the future of the party.
It sounds like they are trying to decide whether to hop off the evangelical wagon that they have been riding, and go back to their roots which is basically small government & fiscal conservatism. In the last election; the only gains the Republicans won were in Appalachia. They realize that they cannot win the country if they are seen as the old-white-fundy party.
LOL @ stranglehold. Last I checked, you could vote.

That being said, the Republican party has lost its identity. It is not what it used to be. The Republican Party of old was more like the Constitution Party is today. It stood for upholding the Constitution along with traditional American values (socially, anyway). Now it's gotten so out of whack that I don't know exactly what it stands for anymore.

It seems like what you people want is for religion to cease to exist. You can spin it anyway you want, but that's what all the left-wingers here are implying. I'm sorry, but religion will ALWAYS play a role in public life.

America is a religious nation, and this is shown in most all of its historical documents. Take the Declaration of Independence for example. In it, Jefferson says that our rights were bestowed upon us by our Creator. Who is that Creator? That's up to the individual to decide. However, the concept of a creator is a RELIGIOUS concept.


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Hey, they are always changing Christianity, so they should. Its a story in the making so lets just say every Christian has to color with the olive colored crayon too or God might send you to hell, oh no not hell! I mean damn, with a religion that's always changing, how can you even consider it to be a religion at all? I think its more of a tool.
Wow. First you people whine about the Bible being outdated and us needing to change it, and now when certain denominations attempt to do so, you whine about that. Will you ever be satisfied?
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  #26  
Old 01-20-2009, 10:45 PM
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Default Re: Future of the Religious-Right?

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Wow. First you people whine about the Bible being outdated and us needing to change it, and now when certain denominations attempt to do so, you whine about that. Will you ever be satisfied?
Huh, I actually agree with you on that.
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