When does life Begin?

[White_Rabbit]

Originally Posted by Omega Mitch

Life begins when you fall in love.

Don't spam this up. Life does not begin when you fall in love, Because then you'd be reborn everytime you saw a hot girl, or got a GF for that matter.

[The Maple Syrup Baptist]

Originally Posted by White_Rabbit

Don't spam this up. Life does not begin when you fall in love, Because then you'd be reborn everytime you saw a hot girl, or got a GF for that matter.

Grow up and read between the lines, buddy. You're the one spamming. I shouldn't have to explain that, and if you think seeing a hot girl is love you have a LOT to learn.

[White_Rabbit]

Originally Posted by Omega Mitch

Grow up and read between the lines, buddy. You're the one spamming. I shouldn't have to explain that, and if you think seeing a hot girl is love you have a LOT to learn.

*sigh* i didn't say I thought it was love, there are people out there who do indeed think that is love. I was merely pointing that out.

[The Maple Syrup Baptist]

Originally Posted by White_Rabbit

*sigh* i didn't say I thought it was love, there are people out there who do indeed think that is love. I was merely pointing that out.

What? You don't make sense.

There's much more to life than mere science. What I know is, comparing life before love to life after, it feels like I was walking dead for 16 years.

The act of a sperm fertilizing an egg is but one side of life. Don't you think all sides should be explored?

[White_Rabbit]

Originally Posted by Omega Mitch

What? You don't make sense.

i know v.v

Originally Posted by Omega Mitch

There's much more to life than mere science. What I know is, comparing life before love to life after, it feels like I was walking dead for 16 years.

? Did you get dumped?

Originally Posted by Omega Mitch

The act of a sperm fertilizing an egg is but one side of life. Don't you think all sides should be explored?

Yes....

[The Maple Syrup Baptist]

Originally Posted by White_Rabbit

? Did you get dumped?

I'm referring to how love opens up your life in a way you could never understand without experiencing it. And I'm not bragging by any means; I did get "dumped", and it's worse than any pain I've ever felt, even physical pain. But I guess nothing lasts, and nothing is free.

Anyways, moving on.

[White_Rabbit]

Originally Posted by Omega Mitch

I'm referring to how love opens up your life in a way you could never understand without experiencing it. And I'm not bragging by any means; I did get "dumped", and it's worse than any pain I've ever felt, even physical pain. But I guess nothing lasts, and nothing is free.

Anyways, moving on.

I feel for ya man, I got dumped before.....We got back together 24 hours later but the pain was bitter.

[Lord Fedora]

Originally Posted by White_Rabbit

According to AFA, Life is Viable at two weeks, but only if you are at a hospital that has the medical technology to support that child out-side the womb. Now according to that, a baby can be aborted before two weeks, but if the child is viable at two weeks, then what is it at one week? So then if we can sustain it at two weeks, couldn't we go back a week and just say it's viable at a week? Or even 5 days?

Yes, but to kill a fetus at that point in life would be less than killing an ant. The fetus doesn't even have a heart let alone brain cells. It's actually lower on the scale of life than an ant. An abortion at that point is medically equivalent to removing a parasite, except less so because even a tapeworm has a brain. So you can't base legal status of a fetus on medical condition if you're thinking in terms of "no abortion". Therefore, the question has to be a spiritual and philosophical one, the idea of a) when does a child have a soul, and b) is ending a potential human life the same as ending a human life.So I think what we're looking at here is the idea of "when does a child start having a soul".

Originally Posted by Omega Mitch

Life begins when you fall in love.

Amen brother. And life ends (at least temporarily) when you get your heart broken. To all of you who don't know what I'm talking about, congratulations. You haven't had your heart properly broken yet.

Originally Posted by White_Rabbit

Don't spam this up. Life does not begin when you fall in love, Because then you'd be reborn everytime you saw a hot girl, or got a GF for that matter.

Philosophical life genius, not literal life.

Originally Posted by Omega Mitch

I'm referring to how love opens up your life in a way you could never understand without experiencing it. And I'm not bragging by any means; I did get "dumped", and it's worse than any pain I've ever felt, even physical pain. But I guess nothing lasts, and nothing is free.

Been there.

So, any chance we could, I don't know, maybe get back on topic?

[Soda]

God made the Universe, and stuff. That's what I believe! ^-^ It's a simple-minded way to believe, but I think it is true.
I honestly don't have time to find the plot holes in each theory, cause they all have crucial ones. I'm a Christian, so yea, I believe God created errything! Maybe a big bang created God!!!! Nature carried the rest out on it's own.

Tbh, on Abortion, I'm for it in most situations, but one the fetus develops a heart and brain and stuff, I don't agree with it. If it is aborted while it is like, nothing, it's not like it will go to heaven or hell. Well, can a fetus has soul? At that point, I really don't think it can...I think life starts sometime while it's in the womb.

[Kenny_C.002]

Originally Posted by White_Rabbit

According to AFA, Life is Viable at two weeks, but only if you are at a hospital that has the medical technology to support that child out-side the womb. Now according to that, a baby can be aborted before two weeks, but if the child is viable at two weeks, then what is it at one week? So then if we can sustain it at two weeks, couldn't we go back a week and just say it's viable at a week? Or even 5 days?

AFA as in American Family Association? At least put in some effort of searching pubmed. Oh btw, slippery slope is a logical fallacy. If, by your theory, an embryo is viable at 2 weeks, it is NOT implied that this is possible at any lower number. In fact, it is implied that our current medical technologies are limited to this maximum. In any case, you might want to sit down for a long explanation about medical ethics.

What you were referring to in viability is stated in Kurjak et al. (Scientific and religious controversies about the beginning of human life) from the Journal of Perinatal medicine as when an embryo can be considered to be an individual in medical terms:

The ‘‘embryo’’ stage, therefore, begins approximately 16 days after the beginning of the fertilization process and continues until the end of 8 weeks after fertilization, when most major organs have been formed.

A key stage in embryonic development is the emergence of an individual human being. ‘‘Individual’’ means that an entity (1) can be distinguished from other entities and (2) is indivisible, i.e., it cannot be divided or split into two members of the same species. An entity meeting the
first criterion, but not the second, is a distinct but not individual entity. The pre-embryo, because it can divide into monozygotic twins is a distinct but not individual entity. The embryo, by contrast, no longer divide into monozygotic twins and so it meets both criteria for being an individual.

This means that the identification of the embryo as an individual, whether or not the individual has moral rights (that is, the right to live, obligations to which physicians should incur his or her beneficence). They conclude that moral rights are dependent on religion and is therefore difficult to give an answer from this standpoint (Kurjak et al., 2007). Therefore they decided that viability should be the primary reason for when intervention should be applied.

"[I]n developed countries, [they] believe [that] viability presently occurs at approximately 24 completed weeks of gestational age." (Kurjak et al., 2007, page 380). So from a medical standpoint, viability in developed countries is 24 weeks. Also, they state that viability changes depending on location, citing that less developed countries would need more time before viability is reached (Kurjak et al., 2007). They specifically stated that "[t]he previable fetus, therefore, has no claim to the status of being a patient independently of the pregnant woman’s autonomy." (Kurjak et al., 2007)

As well, there is also a part that speaks of in vitro embryos (refer back up to your post).

An in vitro embryo, therefore, becomes viable only when it survives in vitro cell division, transfer, implantation, and subsequent gestation to such a time
that it becomes viable.

Basically, we don't have the technology to keep an embryo alive inside a test tube. It really doesn't matter at any time below 24 weeks.

A guide to physicians, or a guide for religious people. You decide on that one. I sort of have to follow the one I'm citing for professional reasons, but you do have a choice here. Just get your facts right next time. :)


Edit: In terms of "when does a fetus have a soul", it was noted that this is different between different religions in Kurjak et al. (2007). So depending on the philosophical branch of religion, this answer will differ. In any case, that is generally easily solved by consulting the necessary scriptures/Bible/Koran/etc. to find out. I personally only define "life" as "viability", so it really doesn't affect me all that much. I do think that it is an important topical concept in accepting or rejecting abortion before the 24 week period, though, for those that do not wish to define "life" as "viability".