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  #31  
Old 10-30-2008, 03:56 AM
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Default Re: Poll Shows Obama Beats McCain among Early Voters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancing Mad View Post
Why does it even matter if Obama is Muslim? This really shouldn't even matter in this election. McCain is just preying on people's fears of the unknown. I don't give a darn if a presidential candidate is a die hard Christian, an atheist or a Muslim. I think the President should just be cable of running the country at its full potential and it doesn't matter what race, religion or sex he or she is.
Because IIRC, 94% of Americans belong to one Christian sect or another. I'unno, my Prime Minister's atheist/agnostic and Singapore's currently doing decently. I personally think it would be interesting, amusing, and ultimately for the benefit for the world if a staunch Buddhist came into power in the USA, but that's just me.
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  #32  
Old 10-30-2008, 04:06 AM
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Default Re: Poll Shows Obama Beats McCain among Early Voters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancing Mad View Post
Why does it even matter if Obama is Muslim? This really shouldn't even matter in this election. McCain is just preying on people's fears of the unknown. I don't give a darn if a presidential candidate is a die hard Christian, an atheist or a Muslim. I think the President should just be cable of running the country at its full potential and it doesn't matter what race, religion or sex he or she is.
Agreed.



It's really irritating how some people always set double standards.

At any rate both of them are subject to the puppeteering of their party anyway. It's a lesser of two evils thing. At least Obama isn't going to die really early into his presidency if he isn't assassinated, and be replaced with a pathetic VP.
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  #33  
Old 10-30-2008, 04:07 AM
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Default Re: Poll Shows Obama Beats McCain among Early Voters

As annoyed as I'm getting with people who think Obama's Muslim, I'm getting even more annoyed with those who think that's a bad thing. Believe it or not, being Muslim =/= being an extremist terrorist hell-bent on doing suicide bombing missions to stop the growth of the Great Satan! Who knew?

On the subject of that video, don't you think if the general conservative press had labeled you as a closet Muslim and that you were getting snide comments about being a terrorist from the public everywhere you went, you'd accidently call yourself a Muslim at some point? :/ As Fire Away brilliantly put it, if every time you screw up and accidentally say something that something is true, I need to go call about ten people and tell them they're not really my mom.

EDIT: skdfgsdasdafasd, Ski, Singapore's Prime Minister is agnostic/atheist? I want to move there now. 8D
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  #34  
Old 10-30-2008, 04:10 AM
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Default Re: Poll Shows Obama Beats McCain among Early Voters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancing Mad View Post
I think the President should just be cable [sic] of running the country at its full potential and it doesn't matter what race, religion or sex he or she is.
Quoted for truth.

Neo:
Honestly, the one thing that I absolutely hate in the America is its medical system. I don't buy into the whole "great care if money, no care if none" philosophy, and I don't buy into insurance companies taking advantage of their patrons so they can make huge profit margins.

Why do I make such a huge fuss about all of this? Because of one very simple fact: I don't intend on breaking the Hippocratic Oath. That is, I don't want to have to feel the guilt of having to watch someone die in front of me just because they don't have any money and/or because their insurance company said "no". Is this not reasonable?

However, I do buy into a dual medical system, a mixture of private and public/socialized medical system, where everybody in society pays for the public system like in Britain or Canada. Then, if somebody wants to pay large amounts of cash, he or she can go to a private hospital. If not, there's still the public hospitals that will take care of you. It seems to me that this is potentially the only "ideal" solution so far. Obama, I believe, is going in the right direction by introducing socialized medicine, as second part is completely missing in America.
  #35  
Old 10-30-2008, 04:18 AM
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Default Re: Poll Shows Obama Beats McCain among Early Voters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny_C.002 View Post
Quoted for truth.

Neo:
Honestly, the one thing that I absolutely hate in the America is its medical system. I don't buy into the whole "great care if money, no care if none" philosophy, and I don't buy into insurance companies taking advantage of their patrons so they can make huge profit margins.

Why do I make such a huge fuss about all of this? Because of one very simple fact: I don't intend on breaking the Hippocratic Oath. That is, I don't want to have to feel the guilt of having to watch someone die in front of me just because they don't have any money and/or because their insurance company said "no". Is this not reasonable?

However, I do buy into a dual medical system, a mixture of private and public/socialized medical system, where everybody in society pays for the public system like in Britain or Canada. Then, if somebody wants to pay large amounts of cash, he or she can go to a private hospital. If not, there's still the public hospitals that will take care of you. It seems to me that this is potentially the only "ideal" solution so far. Obama, I believe, is going in the right direction by introducing socialized medicine, as second part is completely missing in America.
EXACTLY!
The medical system here is extremely flawed.
People who are dying but have no money refuse to believe they are sick and they just don't go and they die.
How is that constitutional WHATSOEVER?

It puts kids college money into debt and people's barely over the line incomes to shame.

By the way, the whole "public system sucks balls" idea is not true. In Britain, where my cousin lives, he got sick twice with pneumonia (he's got a weak immune system) and he was in and out in a day. My fathers brother got a knee replacement in 1 week (there was a short waiting list, however), for free.

This is the kind of things we need. Saying a certain amount of "socialism" isn't needed is stupid. We already HAVE socialism - our schools are socialism in the act. "Socialism", among other words (Muslim, anyone?) should not be such a buzz word. Personally, I think that our country is obviously mixed between Socialism and capitalism. And the last thing we need is more reaganites screwing our economy up further.
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  #36  
Old 10-30-2008, 04:20 AM
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Default Re: Poll Shows Obama Beats McCain among Early Voters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Pikachu View Post
Doesn't seem realistic? Why do you think half the country doesn't even vote? If you're living all the way in Hawaii, and you see that most of the states have been determined already, how much do you think your vote will really matter for such a small state?

No, I don't agree that the media should be able to report on the results of the electoral voting WHILE its still going on in other states. You don't allow people to change bets in a horse race while the race is going on, and the same concept should be applied here. No broadcast of results until everything is in.
There are a number of factors why people don't vote. The reason you described can be just one of them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_turnout

As Lord Celebi said, these news postings are not the official results. They just deliver what they have recorded from some of the early voters. Statistics like these rarely reflect the actual results for sure. It's like your crazy friend Jim telling you what horse to bet for. You should take it with a grain of salt.

Last edited by pseudopseudo; 10-30-2008 at 04:22 AM.
  #37  
Old 10-30-2008, 04:21 AM
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Default Re: Poll Shows Obama Beats McCain among Early Voters

Its funny how much people think we are a Capitalist Economy. The U.S. is actually a mixed Economy with traits of both a Capitalist and a Socialist Economy.
  #38  
Old 10-30-2008, 04:24 AM
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Default Re: Poll Shows Obama Beats McCain among Early Voters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dancing Mad View Post
Its funny how much people think we are a Capitalist Economy. The U.S. is actually a mixed Economy with traits of both a Capitalist and a Socialist Economy.
We were just talking about this in class today.

We have these socialist things but no one ever complained about them before:

Public schools
Libraries
Transportation
Medicare (in some cases)
the list goes on.
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  #39  
Old 10-30-2008, 04:48 AM
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Default Re: Poll Shows Obama Beats McCain among Early Voters

Quote:
And what I predict hopefully comes true. People
will see the light on election day, as they did with the
Bush-Kerry election, and vote McCain. Because really;
how many of those people who are voting for Obama
actually have voted before? A lot of people probably
haven't.
Whats your point. Everyone has a first election they can vote in.


Quote:
Plus, not to be racist, but a lot of people want to
vote for him because they want to make him the
first "black president" in the history of America.
The last time an African American ran for office, he lost -
rather dramatically. Where was the love there?
America was much more sensible back then - more
people voting for the good reasons instead of the
bad ones. Obama is a very unpatriotic Muslim (and
he is Muslim; don't dare say I'm wrong, because I've
got some astonishing proof to that bit) that has
so many ties to terrorists that it isn't even funny.
He is not supportive of our military, and is a hypocritical
flip-flopper. He thought the surge wasn't going to work.
Then he said, after it was carried out, that it was working.
Now, he wants to lessen our military by a whopping 25%.
Wacko.
If he wants to lessen the force there, thats because we shouldn't of gone in. We've never pulled out of a place entirely, but if I was going to say theres a place to start, well...here we go. Admitting the surge works doesn't mean he thinks it should not of occurred in the first place.

Provide the proof of him being muslim, or its an unfound truth. If its the stupid clip of him making a mistake during an interview, which, humans are known to make mistakes if I'm not mistaken myself, then, its nothing. McCain in a clip said he aspired to be a dictator. And instead of just claiming it, I'll provide the link now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvqAYW3AV0g

Now, that proves nothing however, because its very possibly out of context, and even if not, very likely to be, a human mistake.

And show me the statistic where "Alot of people" are voting for him to become the first half black president. 90%+ of the black population votes democrat already, so its not like alot of them are voting for him to represent them when they wouldn't of voted for Hillary or Edwards either.

And honestly, I wouldn't care if hes a muslim. Oh no, they're portrayed as bad now. Lets see, your sig states your a christian, and yet, the Christians, the do unto others as you would have others do unto you, and judge not least ye be judged, are judging this man for his APPARENT religious views? I'm sorry, I fail to see what the point is here. Like more atrocities haven't been committed in the name of, or because of the Jewish and Christian God in history. And I don't plan on trying to change your views on this, because under normal circumstances, I'd leave religion out of an argument entirely, but when someone brings it up, I'll start fighting for the minority of America that agrees with me, because , 75% of America identifies themselves as Christian(http://www.gc.cuny.edu/faculty/resea...y_findings.htm could probably find a different link or survey, but I cbf, its late). I don't care about your religious views, at all, but the fact is, you shouldn't care about others either, and even in your own religion(even people choose to ignore it, it seems), it pretty much says thats not your job, thats your Gods job. If your so sure your right, stop forcing your views on other people, let them come to the decision themselves. If its so obviously the right one, I'm sure anyone you'd want to believe the same thing as you will come to the conclusion you have eventually.

Quote:
If we want to come out of Al-Quaeda's (sp?) ring of fire,
we best complete the mission in Iraq first, and then,
slowly, yet ever so surely, start bringing them home.
Because, if we do, they will think we're cowards, and
invade our country, bomb us, and then we're going to have
to do what we did to the Japanese in WWII; restrict all those
with a Muslim, Arabian, etc. background to a specific area.
With our country as big and fast-growing as they are now,
there will be no way to recover, and they will literally
take over America, and then kill all of the non-believers.
You can't negotiate with a terrorist.
Because they were born to kill.
American citizens are very unlikely to let the country get to a point of mass hysteria like that again.

Am I voting? No. I have my reasons for disliking both. I'd post my reasons for Obama, but I have more respect for him than McCain anymore(had more respect for McCain 2000, but thats dead and a woman in a red dress is dancing on its grave). That, and if I care to later, I might come defend some of McCain's(at least his older views) if and when he gets attacked like this entire post slanders Obama. Unless of course there already is a post that attacks McCain, in which case, I might get around to defending him. Eventually.

Quote:
We were just talking about this in class today.

We have these socialist things but no one ever complained about them before:

Public schools
Libraries
Transportation
Medicare (in some cases)
the list goes on.
Lol. Same thing happened in my sociology class today. Happened last week too, I think. Theres also the fact that McCain stated in 2000 when a doctor's daughter asked why her father should get higher taxes because he earns more, defended the practice. I'd find it, but I cbf, im about to go to sleep. I might look for it later if someone else doesn't or someone asks me too.
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yes.

Last edited by Cybernetic Ghost; 10-30-2008 at 04:51 AM.
  #40  
Old 10-30-2008, 05:29 AM
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Default Re: Poll Shows Obama Beats McCain among Early Voters

I think it's highly wrong of the Media to do this early proaganda...ah well.

Anyway, about Youtube- Youtube also has alleged videos of UFOs and stuff...and it's not considered proof.

Also, about Obama being a socialist- I looked at both their records on Finance bills. They either remained absent, or voted for the bill in such a way, that it was for the best. About 20% of the time anyway, the other 80% the bills just got kicked out. (Voting on bills such as CAFTA, FTA and others). In other words, no matter if their supporters give 1074098348749847498797439874 Youtube and other Bible Believer links, facts remain- they fail at Finance. Whatever they might be talking about's just mugged up and repeated in speeches, ghostwritten by others. Note: McCain's record for choosing the better vote for the bill is higher. Marginally.

Also, it doesn't matter who gets elected in. One of them will turn USA into U.S.S.R. United States, a Socialist republic. Just kidding. XD

Anyway, I'm Republican..kind of. Mostly because of the Republican values, but my dad pointed out- Decent president > Favorite party.

Even though I'm incredibly Capitalist minded, I must say that Obama's ideas will really benefit the people. Since when did being a President of the people make you a socialist? Democracy is by the people, for the people, and of the people. If a president wants to work for the majority, he's a decent president that upholds democratic values, why brand him as a socialist? Or do you want a president that's like Bush- ignores the Middle Class, let them rot, support Wall Street and everyone says "Cool, he's a Capitalist! <3 I don't care if he only cares about Wall Street, and doesn't worry about us, he just shouldn't be a Socialist :D"

Lets look at it this way- The middle class will be taxed about 55% of their income, unless Obama comes in. And McCain says he won't change taxes- let them remain at their existing levels. I don't know how people can be like "Hey, I'll pay more taxes, I'll keep funding awar and let my family suffer, so long as we're not called socialists or commies". The tax payers money should be used for re-building ourselves, not other countries. :\ Why can't we use it for more schools, more teachers, better infrastructure, and the like?

Pfft.

Besides, look at the real Socialists- Especially China. They're doing pretty good, aren't they?

Finally, McCain's war arguments are totally fail.

Obama's stance: Lets withdraw the troops and end the war as quickly as possible.

McCain stance: 100 years in Iraq. This is what Al Qaida want- they want us to bleed ourselves to death. Also, The Iraq Government wants us to leave.

So if the US troops withdraw by 2011 or before; and Pakistan doesn't allow us to carry out a war inside their country, there won't be any war. The whole world wants us to leave Iraq and stop policing the world. We should start worrying about ourselves, rather than other countries- they can take care of themselves.

Finally, the lawsuit about his citizenship doubts was kicked out, so that's a fail reason for not voting for him.

@ Kenny: Yep, I read that the Canadian healthcare is pretty amazing. I read an interview of a con-man who used to do a number of crimes in Canada, and when he got a heart attack, he himself was amazed by the efficiency of the healthcare system. We do need a dual system, badly.
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Last edited by Snow Fairy Sugar; 10-30-2008 at 12:05 PM. Reason: no u
  #41  
Old 10-30-2008, 09:08 PM
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Default Re: Poll Shows Obama Beats McCain among Early Voters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cybernetic Ghost View Post
Whats your point. Everyone has a first election they can vote in.

Well, what really made those apathetic people want to vote? FREE HEALTHCARE.

Quote:
If he wants to lessen the force there, thats because we shouldn't of gone in.
But since we're already in there, are we going to finish the job
like we should, or are we just going to stand there and say
"We change our mind. See ya!"

Quote:
Provide the proof of him being muslim, or its an unfound truth.
I put it in one of my posts; read through again. >_>

Quote:
Now, that proves nothing however, because its very possibly out of context, and even if not, very likely to be, a human mistake.
Who DOESN'T want to be a dictator in some point of our lives?

Quote:
And show me the statistic where "Alot of people" are voting for him to become the first half black president. 90%+ of the black population votes democrat already, so its not like alot of them are voting for him to represent them when they wouldn't of voted for Hillary or Edwards either.
I've conducted my own study, thank you very much. -nods-



Quote:
And honestly, I wouldn't care if hes a muslim. Oh no, they're portrayed as bad now. Lets see, your sig states your a christian, and yet, the Christians, the do unto others as you would have others do unto you, and judge not least ye be judged, are judging this man for his APPARENT religious views?
So, you think I have a disposition when it
comes to Muslims because I'm Christian...?
That is the oldest one in the book.

And for the rest of the paragraph, I do not
necessarily force my opinion. I did NOT say
"Everyone, come vote for McCain; he's got
cookies!" or anything of the sort. I do not force
Christianity. However, I am supposed to preach
about him, due to the line "for faith without
works is dead."

We as the Christians have the job of spreading
Christianity, not forcing it upon others, for that
is, indeed wrong.

Quote:
American citizens are very unlikely to let the country get to a point of mass hysteria like that again.
On the contrary, it's only begun, in my opinion.
It's been said that there is a very high chance of
it happening again. Oh no, not our media. They
wouldn't do that, of course. Our media's too
liberal to spread that kind of information. That's
why they made the radio; an alternate way
of spreading news.

Quote:
Unless of course there already is a post that attacks McCain, in which case, I might get around to defending him. Eventually.
There's a whole bunch of posts. >_>
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  #42  
Old 10-30-2008, 09:30 PM
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Default Re: Poll Shows Obama Beats McCain among Early Voters

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Requiem of Verities View Post
Well, what really made those apathetic people want to vote? FREE HEALTHCARE.
Would you rather pay for something or get it for free?

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Requiem of Verities View Post
But since we're already in there, are we going to finish the job
like we should, or are we just going to stand there and say
"We change our mind. See ya!"
No, and that's not what Obama is going to do either.

Immediately upon taking office, Obama will give his Secretary of Defense and military commanders a new mission in Iraq: successfully ending the war. The removal of our troops will be responsible and phased. Obama and Biden will press Iraq's leaders to take responsibility for their future and to substantially spend their oil revenues on their own reconstruction. Then they will launch an aggressive diplomatic effort to reach a comprehensive compact on the stability of Iraq and the region. They also will address Iraq's refugee crisis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Requiem of Verities View Post
I put it in one of my posts; read through again. >_>
Either way, what the hell does it matter? If you honestly think that being Muslim, hell, if you honestly think about the fact that he's Muslim when arguing against him, you yourself are corrupt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Requiem of Verities View Post
Who DOESN'T want to be a dictator in some point of our lives?
Neither Obama nor McCain want to be a dictator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Requiem of Verities View Post
I've conducted my own study, thank you very much. -nods-
If that's the case then there was no point in stating that. Also, how many people do you think are going to do the opposite and NOT vote for Obama because he's black? I'm sure it'll even out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Requiem of Verities View Post
So, you think I have a disposition when it comes to Muslims because I'm Christian...? That is the oldest one in the book.

And for the rest of the paragraph, I do not necessarily force my opinion. I did NOT say "Everyone, come vote for McCain; he's got cookies!" or anything of the sort. I do not force Christianity. However, I am supposed to preach about him, due to the line "for faith without works is dead."

We as the Christians have the job of spreading Christianity, not forcing it upon others, for that is, indeed wrong.
Then why do Christians get made when you try and spread evolution around?

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Requiem of Verities View Post
On the contrary, it's only begun, in my opinion. It's been said that there is a very high chance of it happening again. Oh no, not our media. They wouldn't do that, of course. Our media's too liberal to spread that kind of information. That's why they made the radio; an alternate way of spreading news.
*coughcoughFOXNEWScoughcough*

I like Obama because he is not going to fix all of the problems. He is going to encourage American citizens to fix the problems, because anyone who expects a single president to fix the problems is an idiot, and the only person I've seen that has outright said "This responsibility falls on the american people with myself leading them to fix." That is why I like Obama.

He is also more centrist than most people, believing that neither extreme is correct, ever. An even balance between two extremes is the way to go.

And don't give me that "He's a socialist" bullshit, either. America has been redistributing wealth since we were created.

"I'm asking you to believe not just in my ability to bring about real change in Washington, I'm asking you to believe in yours."

~Barack Obama
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Last edited by Charbok; 10-30-2008 at 09:34 PM.
  #43  
Old 10-30-2008, 09:55 PM
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Default Re: Poll Shows Obama Beats McCain among Early Voters

Requiem, you've been sidestepping one major point every single time you've replied, and you should seriously respond to it, because...well, it's tearing your "Obama is Muslim" argument to shreds.

Many conservatives hold the belief that Obama is Muslim and are outspoken about it. Some even call Obama a terrorist. Obama has recently cut ties with the Christian church he followed for years and years. Even after that fiasco, he's had to fight the media over his faith. Don't you think, if you've had "he's a Muslim" hammered into you for a year and a half, you'd make one slip and say you're Muslim? It's the same concept as accidentally using the wrong word in a sentence or calling someone by the wrong name. Just because he accidentally said it doesn't make it true.
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  #44  
Old 10-30-2008, 10:07 PM
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Default Re: Poll Shows Obama Beats McCain among Early Voters

Take eighteen... or was it nineteen...?

Either way, after this, I'm going to bed or something. >_>

Quote:
Would you rather pay for something or get it for free?
Every taxpayer gets it for free, and that's
not what the Democrats or seeing. So, in a
sense we ARE paying for it, because what will
that mean...? Higher taxes, people!

Quote:
No, and that's not what Obama is going to do either.
Right. And I'm the -insert seven greats- grandchild of
the founder of Bay City, Michigan. Oh wait! I am! xD

Quote:
Immediately upon taking office, Obama will give his Secretary of Defense and military commanders a new mission in Iraq: successfully ending the war.
... Hasn't that been the mission in the FIRST PLACE?

Quote:
Either way, what the hell does it matter? If you honestly think that being Muslim, hell, if you honestly think about the fact that he's Muslim when arguing against him, you yourself are corrupt.
All I'm saying is that there are a LOT of Muslims
out there that have connections to suicide bombers...
which are also Muslim, miraculously. So, I think we
have the right to be a little suspicious; not to the
point where we're preforming racial profiling here
(even though Obama seems to encourage it),
but just keeping an eye on his connections. He denies
all of his connections, of course.

Quote:
Neither Obama nor McCain want to be a dictator.
Not saying either do.

Quote:
If that's the case then there was no point in stating that. Also, how many people do you think are going to do the opposite and NOT vote for Obama because he's black? I'm sure it'll even out.
Highly doubt it. He's too popular for that kind of
thing to happen.

Quote:
Then why do Christians get made when you try and spread evolution around?
Because it's considered "science", and science
isn't religion, technically speaking. It is theory, true
indeed, but a theory that has been FORCED upon
us to learn in order for us to be considered an
informed person.

And I'm Christian, FYI. I don't spread evolution...

Quote:
*coughcoughFOXNEWScoughcough*
ACTUALLY, FoxNews is the only balanced media
channel I've ever heard of, believe it or not. It
seems that more Republicans are on it, but it's
balanced.

Quote:
I like Obama because he is not going to fix all of the problems. He is going to encourage American citizens to fix the problems, because anyone who expects a single president to fix the problems is an idiot, and the only person I've seen that has outright said "This responsibility falls on the american people with myself leading them to fix." That is why I like Obama.
Thinking in that sense; of course, it is truly
our duty to fix things, true enough, because
we are in a democracy, not a dictatorship. But...
Obama's a scary guy, I swear.

Quote:
And don't give me that "He's a socialist" bullshit, either. America has been redistributing wealth since we were created.

"I'm asking you to believe not just in my ability to bring about real change in Washington, I'm asking you to believe in yours."

~Barack Obama
This is true, but we aren't to the point
to be considered a "socialist country,"
because not all people pay taxes.
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Last edited by Professor Geoffrey; 10-30-2008 at 10:10 PM.
  #45  
Old 10-30-2008, 10:09 PM
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Default Re: Poll Shows Obama Beats McCain among Early Voters

I voted already but I would rather not debate as I feel that everyone is free to agree or disagree with me as their right as a voter. When all is said and done, nothing I could say would really matter since most people by now have made up their minds, and debating it is about is useful as ramming my head into a wall (and being a flaaffy, my horns aren't made for that ;))
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