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  #16  
Old 10-21-2008, 08:02 AM
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Default Re: Proposition 8

Stupid issue, why can't they just legalize and be done with it? If two people love each other, why go and interfere? I mean, the consitution is supposed to be impartial, and not listen to ideas of religions and stuff, then why should it listen to the Bible?

--------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trinity View Post
While we the rich become even richer from this predicament, standard living for the middle class and below just continue to get worse.
Actually, anyone who knows how to save and has saved for the last 4-5 years, can live a comfortable life, and will hardly be affected by the recession.

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/17/ron.paul.qa/

They{Americans} don't understand the idea that people have to work. People have to save, instead of consumers spending more money.

The market is saying you should back off, spend less money, and save money. Everybody says, no, don't save money. You're supposed to go out there and spend money.

The people who have saved in the last five years have money in the bank, and cash is good right now. They're going to buy up the bargains. They're going to get a good deal on a house. Prices on houses should come down. We shouldn't keep them artificially high. We shouldn't try to stimulate housing. There are too many houses. We should let the market make these decisions.


-Congressman Ron Paul.

Also, Victoria- You and Trinity are wrong on some points, but you guys are right in others.

A] The government has no control or authority to get involved in Wall Street. It's only after they sent a distress signal and the Federal Reserve gave the go ahead to the government, the government is intervening. Don't blame the government.

B] The banks(at least, the major ones that control the Fed) get money from the Federal Reserve...that just prints money out of nothing. Thus, the funding capacity that a bank is virtually infinite.

C] This problem can't be solved by the government- it's so be solved by the people and Wall Street. What happened was, people wanted to go to the banks, and get a good loan. They{This class of people} mortgaged their houses, got the money, defaulted, lost their homes. Since they had not reach independent earning capacity, and were not likely to repay the loans they were known as 'subprime customers'. However, lack of judgement and vision combined with a consumer mentality ended up in a mess.

(Now, what the people did with the money was spend it for luxuries. Anyone can deny it, and link youtube and other videos denying it -.- but facts will remain facts. Why else do we have such a huge trade deficit? Or others call us consumers, and want to make as much money as they can by exporting to a largely "I like this, I want it now" population?)

D] Next what happened was, so many houses end up with banks, they had to get rid of the houses- and quickly. But suddenly, poof! No one has the money to buy houses. Everyone's spent all their savings, other banks don't want to buy it, etc etc.

E] The bubble broke, the housing prices crashed, the banks that gave, say one million for a house that got sold for 50,000${No exaggerations} made severe losses.

F] So, it's not, contrary to what people think, "Recession is affecting the middle class". It's actually, the middle class has no money to buy anything, and the banks that make their money from trapping Americans in a debt, and squeezing the blood out of them, have crashed down to earth. In conclusion, the middle class's recession led to the banks starting to collapse. The condition of the middle class was just never highlighted in the mainstream media, and you know what the government's like- favor the rich. Or it's like 'Dig biting man is no news'.

G] And the next question is, 'Why would banks give money to subprime customers?' Simple. What their parents have worked and earned- such as houses and property, in forty years, the people have blown up within a year or two. The prospects of controlling the entire houses and property of American people was too much.

H] It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.
Henry Ford

--------------------------------------------------

For a couple of kids, you're pretty smart. There's a lot of stuff you don't know yet. From what I can tlel, you probably know about 5-10% of the thing...but good enough, all the same. ;P
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  #17  
Old 10-21-2008, 01:19 PM
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Default Re: Proposition 8

Lol, here we are with another gay marriage topic. You know my stance, vote YES on proposal 8!

Well, I know how much you all would like to burn the Constitution and abolish religion, but the thing is, without religion, nobody has any rights at all. There are only privileges. Let me explain. Without religion, what is there to determine what's right and what's wrong? With Christianity, God does. With Islam, Allah does, With Hinduism, the many gods they have do. But, with atheism, nothing does. There is no set definition for right and wrong. It's all about one's moral fiber, which is a fancy way of saying one's opinion on what's right.

America, while we seem to have great diversity, was founded on Christian values. 52 of the 55 framers of the Constitution were Christians. Two of the three others were Roman Catholics, and the other, Benjamin Franklin, believed in God and all the morals of Christianity. The Bible played as large, if not the largest role in the writing of the Constitution as anything else. Our rights were pretty much all given to us by Christianity. Take away religion, and all we are left with are privileges and man's opinion on them.

Make what you will of that.

Since we are on the Internets where opinion = fact, my above argument is likely to be "torn apart" by some internet tough guy who thinks he's the best thing since the flush toilet, I'll present a "non-religious" argument, which seems to be what everyone craves.

The following is an except from Ann Coulter's "How to talk to a Liberal (If You Must)". I know that you'll argue that it's intent was to take a diarrhea dump all over liberals and their beliefs, but her arguments are actually put together well, and she knows what she's talking about.

Quote:
The classic formulation was given by John Kerry in the Democratic debate earlier this week: "What we're talking about is somebody's right to be able to visit a loved one in a hospital, somebody's right to be able to pass on property, somebody's right to live equally under the state laws as other people in the country." You would think there were "Straights Only" water fountains, the way Democrats carry on so (as if any gay man would drink non-bottled water).

Apparently, health care in this country is better than we've been led to believe if so few Americans have ever been to a hospital that they think there's a guest list. In case you don't know: Gays already can visit loved ones in hospitals. They can also visit neighbors, random acquaintances and total strangers in hospitals - just like everyone else.

Gays can also pass on property to whomever they would like, including their cats. Every few years you read about some daft rich widow leaving her entire estate to a cat. It's perfectly legal. You just need to write a will. Liberals have figured out how to get abortions for 13-year-old girls without their parents' permission. But we're supposed to believe that they just can't get their heads around how a gay guy could leave property to his partner.
Also, I'm curious as to why the economy is being discussed in a thread about gay marriage. lolwut
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  #18  
Old 10-21-2008, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: Proposition 8

It all makes sense now Wunschkind man is just an inferior idiotic race that is not capable of making their own decisions or doing anything without god telling them what to do I completely forgot how stupid and incapable humans are of doing anything without help thank you for helping me see the light.
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  #19  
Old 10-21-2008, 07:14 PM
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Default Re: Proposition 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent_Valentine_4 View Post
It all makes sense now Wunschkind man is just an inferior idiotic race that is not capable of making their own decisions or doing anything without god telling them what to do I completely forgot how stupid and incapable humans are of doing anything without help thank you for helping me see the light.
So, what you're saying is that you have the authority to tell us the difference between right and wrong?

ahahahahah!!!!
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  #20  
Old 10-21-2008, 07:24 PM
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Default Re: Proposition 8

I know I'll be voting no. I mean, who really cares who marries who. It's their Freedom of Choice.

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  #21  
Old 10-21-2008, 10:40 PM
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Default Re: Proposition 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wunschkind View Post
Lol, here we are with another gay marriage topic. You know my stance, vote YES on proposal 8!

Well, I know how much you all would like to burn the Constitution and abolish religion, but the thing is, without religion, nobody has any rights at all. There are only privileges. Let me explain. Without religion, what is there to determine what's right and what's wrong? With Christianity, God does. With Islam, Allah does, With Hinduism, the many gods they have do. But, with atheism, nothing does. There is no set definition for right and wrong. It's all about one's moral fiber, which is a fancy way of saying one's opinion on what's right.

America, while we seem to have great diversity, was founded on Christian values. 52 of the 55 framers of the Constitution were Christians. Two of the three others were Roman Catholics, and the other, Benjamin Franklin, believed in God and all the morals of Christianity. The Bible played as large, if not the largest role in the writing of the Constitution as anything else. Our rights were pretty much all given to us by Christianity. Take away religion, and all we are left with are privileges and man's opinion on them.

Make what you will of that.

Since we are on the Internets where opinion = fact, my above argument is likely to be "torn apart" by some internet tough guy who thinks he's the best thing since the flush toilet, I'll present a "non-religious" argument, which seems to be what everyone craves.

The following is an except from Ann Coulter's "How to talk to a Liberal (If You Must)". I know that you'll argue that it's intent was to take a diarrhea dump all over liberals and their beliefs, but her arguments are actually put together well, and she knows what she's talking about.



Also, I'm curious as to why the economy is being discussed in a thread about gay marriage. lolwut
Hah! You can determine right and wrong with a democracy. We'd still have laws and rules and we'd still know that murder is wrong and rape is wrong, without your silly dilly "Christianity".

Just because the constitution was written by religious people doens't mean you need to have a religious country to follow it. The constitution hardly mentions god or christianity.

I'm curious to know why you say YES on prop 8, other than the fact that "god said so."
You are obviously being manipulated by your religion, but hey.
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  #22  
Old 10-22-2008, 02:15 AM
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Default Re: Proposition 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wunschkind View Post
Well, I know how much you all would like to burn the Constitution and abolish religion, but the thing is, without religion, nobody has any rights at all. There are only privileges. Let me explain. Without religion, what is there to determine what's right and what's wrong? With Christianity, God does. With Islam, Allah does, With Hinduism, the many gods they have do. But, with atheism, nothing does. There is no set definition for right and wrong. It's all about one's moral fiber, which is a fancy way of saying one's opinion on what's right.
The answer: Majority. We live in a society where majority vote determines the laws, the leaders, and the decisions, which in turn define what is right and wrong.

In Christianity, it is not a set definition, it is a set opinion established by the few that wrote The Bible. What in the world tells us that those people are more right than the majority of people in our nation, if our nation's majority happens to conflict with its views?
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  #23  
Old 10-22-2008, 02:45 AM
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Default Re: Proposition 8

Snow Fairy Sugar:

Please, please, please don't get your information from Ron Paul. He's wrong at best, and an outright liar at worst.

A] The government has no control or authority to get involved in Wall Street. It's only after they sent a distress signal and the Federal Reserve gave the go ahead to the government, the government is intervening. Don't blame the government.
No.

The Senate Banking Committee certainly has oversight, as do various other government agencies. The FDIC--far from being a simple insurance program--also is responsible in ensuring that transactions are conducted properly. The Federal Reserve itself is a "independent" government organ. See their website: http://www.federalreserve.gov/genera...q/faqfrs.htm#5

The United States is--and always has been--an interventionist nation. The government screwed up by not paying attention and by trying to deregulate.

B] The banks(at least, the major ones that control the Fed) get money from the Federal Reserve...that just prints money out of nothing. Thus, the funding capacity that a bank is virtually infinite.
No. The Federal Reserve does not "print money"--the Federal Reserve holds currency reserves and makes overnight loans to banks, just as the central banks of every civilized nation do. Banks in general rely on overnight loans given from various other private and governmental institutions.

The kind of money we're talking about is not printed. If you took every valid dollar bill in the world, you still wouldn't approach the levels that the US uses on a daily basis. The arguments that Ron Paul presents to his supporters are specious (no pun intended) and facile because they represent an 18th century--pre-credit--approach to economics.

C] This problem can't be solved by the government- it's so be solved by the people and Wall Street. What happened was, people wanted to go to the banks, and get a good loan. They{This class of people} mortgaged their houses, got the money, defaulted, lost their homes.
The subprime loans only constitute a small fraction of the bad paper currently on hand by banks. The vast majority consists of people who expected to be able to bet against their equity to pay off their loans but found that home prices were not expanding ad infinitum.

If the government had not intervened--especially to raise FDIC limits and prop up the tottering GSEs--we'd see a financial crisis that made 1929 seem like a cakewalk. As it stands, we're seeing things teeter as people lose confidence in the credit markets... but we're not seeing runs on the banks.

D] Next what happened was, so many houses end up with banks, they had to get rid of the houses- and quickly. But suddenly, poof! No one has the money to buy houses. Everyone's spent all their savings, other banks don't want to buy it, etc etc.
Is that why home sales are up 63% for September as compared to last year?

E] The bubble broke, the housing prices crashed, the banks that gave, say one million for a house that got sold for 50,000${No exaggerations} made severe losses.
Housing prices have not crashed nationwide. The bubble is slowly leaking, but in some places, housing prices are still higher than ever.

F] So, it's not, contrary to what people think, "Recession is affecting the middle class". It's actually, the middle class has no money to buy anything, and the banks that make their money from trapping Americans in a debt, and squeezing the blood out of them, have crashed down to earth.
Yeah, that's not how banks work. Everything thrives on credit and everyone uses it, because it allows quick access to liquid capital. The point of credit is not to overspend like middle class materialists do, but to provide flexibility for purchases which you will promptly pay for.


And even then, it depends on the purpose of the credit. People who don't pay off their credit cards right away are foolish, for example, but people who delay their mortgage payments may be making a smart bet as far as tax deductions go.

In conclusion, the middle class's recession led to the banks starting to collapse. The condition of the middle class was just never highlighted in the mainstream media, and you know what the government's like- favor the rich. Or it's like 'Dig biting man is no news'.
What are you talking about? A recession is 6 months of negative economy growth. A class cannot have a recession--a recession, by definition, is a national event and consists in an overall reduction in the sum total of all goods and services in the nation.

I don't understand this plebeian nonsense about "the rich" or "the mainstream media."

[indent]G] And the next question is, 'Why would banks give money to subprime customers?' Simple. What their parents have worked and earned- such as houses and property, in forty years, the people have blown up within a year or two. The prospects of controlling the entire houses and property of American people was too much. [/indent

Conspiracy theories are always fun. Heavens forbid reality should intervene.

H] It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.
Henry Ford
Oh, I like the quote game. Here's one!

"The voice of the people has been said to be the voice of God, and, however generally this maxim has been quoted and believed, it is not true to fact. The people are turbulent and changing, they seldom judge or determine right. Give therefore to the first class a distinct permanent share in the government. Can a democratic assembly who annually revolve in the mass of the people be supposed steadily to pursue the public good?"
Alexander Hamilton
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  #24  
Old 10-22-2008, 02:50 AM
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Default Re: Proposition 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by zachattack View Post
Hah! You can determine right and wrong with a democracy. We'd still have laws and rules and we'd still know that murder is wrong and rape is wrong, without your silly dilly "Christianity".

Just because the constitution was written by religious people doens't mean you need to have a religious country to follow it. The constitution hardly mentions god or christianity.

I'm curious to know why you say YES on prop 8, other than the fact that "god said so."
You are obviously being manipulated by your religion, but hey.
Are petty insults all you have?

We have opinions about what is right and wrong, and none of them can be taken as fact because they have nothing to back them up, kind of like your pitiful "arguments" against religion.
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  #25  
Old 10-22-2008, 02:50 AM
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Default Re: Proposition 8

thats gross. oh it makes me sick. it was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.
a girl is meant to be kissed by a guy, and a guy by a girl. and yes, it matters. how can a guy love another guy?
oh and boohoo if they don't have rights. oh how sad that the guys at the office point and laugh at two guys making out! i would laugh. and then throw up, all over them.
  #26  
Old 10-22-2008, 02:53 AM
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Default Re: Proposition 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThEcHaMpIoNoFsApPhIrE View Post
thats gross. oh it makes me sick. it was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.
a girl is meant to be kissed by a guy, and a guy by a girl. and yes, it matters. how can a guy love another guy?
oh and boohoo if they don't have rights. oh how sad that the guys at the office point and laugh at two guys making out! i would laugh. and then throw up, all over them.
Great, now everyone in this topic is going to rage... and that's awesome. You rule.

Technically, they have the same rights as we do. I can't marry a man either. =p
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  #27  
Old 10-22-2008, 02:54 AM
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Default Re: Proposition 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wunschkind View Post
Great, now everyone in this topic is going to rage... and that's awesome. You rule.

Technically, they have the same rights as we do. I can't marry a man either. =p
thanx, and i think it should be outlawed. i mean the gay marriage.
  #28  
Old 10-22-2008, 02:54 AM
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Default Re: Proposition 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThEcHaMpIoNoFsApPhIrE View Post
thats gross. oh it makes me sick. it was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.
a girl is meant to be kissed by a guy, and a guy by a girl. and yes, it matters. how can a guy love another guy?
oh and boohoo if they don't have rights. oh how sad that the guys at the office point and laugh at two guys making out! i would laugh. and then throw up, all over them.
If it was abnormal, it wouldn't happen altogether.
Obviously it DOES happen, and you can't stop it whether you think it's gross or not.
How can a guy love another guy? It's not hard. Many guys feel sexually attracted to other guys during puberty. It's a hard concept to understand, I know, but it's true.

Boohoo if they don't have rights? do you have no pride for your country and it's standpoints?
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  #29  
Old 10-22-2008, 03:05 AM
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Default Re: Proposition 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by zachattack View Post
If it was abnormal, it wouldn't happen altogether.
Obviously it DOES happen, and you can't stop it whether you think it's gross or not.
How can a guy love another guy? It's not hard. Many guys feel sexually attracted to other guys during puberty. It's a hard concept to understand, I know, but it's true.

Boohoo if they don't have rights? do you have no pride for your country and it's standpoints?
this isn't what the revolution stood for! and its not right! Ligers wouldn't exist except we have perverted Carnies mate-forcing their lions and tigers!!! and that attraction at puberty is not attraction, just curiosity, difference. although i didn't feel attracted to my male peers. the girls were different, they (especially the hotties) were fun to look at (and still are) but i can't say looking at another guy in the shower is my idea of a good shower. i'd throw up. no its not natural for a guy to be physically attracted to another guy, srry to dissapoint you. and i did a study up on human psycology and intimacy.
  #30  
Old 10-22-2008, 03:46 AM
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Default Re: Proposition 8

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThEcHaMpIoNoFsApPhIrE View Post
thats gross. oh it makes me sick. it was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.
a girl is meant to be kissed by a guy, and a guy by a girl. and yes, it matters. how can a guy love another guy?
oh and boohoo if they don't have rights. oh how sad that the guys at the office point and laugh at two guys making out! i would laugh. and then throw up, all over them.
It's only natural to speak coherently. The goverment should not give equal rights to those who cannot type with proper spelling or grammar.

By your rules, boohoo for you, right?
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FrozenChaos703: I AM ONE INCH TALLER THAN THE MIDGET IN MY CLASS. D:
------
FrozenChaos703: I have a kitty named Peaches.
FrozenChaos703: She can stand on my boobs.
FrozenChaos703: Without falling.
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