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  #31  
Old 09-07-2008, 11:16 PM
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Default Re: World Populaton Growth?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eeveeking929 View Post
Simple. First, suck up the unbreathable atmosphere that's already there with giant vacuums (and don't laugh, there's no better word for it). Then, release collected gasses that match the composition of our natural atmosphere (sans all the crap we put there burning fossil fuels), and the planet's gravity will do the rest. With the right kind of air on the planet, we can bring in plants to recycle it, using special nutrient filled fertilizer to compensate for the different make-up of the soil, bring over some livestock, take a bunch of ocean water and purify it before bringing it over, and voila. One terraformed planet.
Errr...somebody forgot about the word "realistic" much? Your solution is impossible to do even if the entire Earth commits all of its resources devoted to this.

Azumao: The problem here is that you can't possibly do something like that due to the morality card. You're not being a realist if you think that you can simply eliminate the "unproductive" to depopulate the world simply because of morality. Besides that point, the fraction of "unproductive" people range from very few to a ton depending on where you draw the line, and lacking a moral baseline, anybody can theoretically be killed.
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  #32  
Old 09-08-2008, 06:22 AM
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Default Re: World Populaton Growth?!

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Originally Posted by Kenny_C.002 View Post
The problem here is that you can't possibly do something like that due to the morality card. You're not being a realist if you think that you can simply eliminate the "unproductive" to depopulate the world simply because of morality. Besides that point, the fraction of "unproductive" people range from very few to a ton depending on where you draw the line, and lacking a moral baseline, anybody can theoretically be killed.
I still don't see the problem.
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  #33  
Old 09-08-2008, 06:41 AM
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Default Re: World Populaton Growth?!

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Originally Posted by Deathspector View Post


That only happens in the villages and in places where tradition still rules over most people's lives. It doesn't happen in most urban areas of China, and is a horrible stereotype.

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*From a long time ago*

Actually, it's not such a stereotype. About 50% of Chinese women, older than say... 20? Yeah, they run a risk of dropping dead. Chinese parents back in those days did terrible, yet subtle things to make their daughters die as tradition and family reputation relied on a male to continue the family name.


Eh, we're slowly developing the idea of Terraforming Mars. Go look it up on Wikipedia. It's so bloody destructive. But it kinda proves the fact that we'll need to leave the planet some day.
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  #34  
Old 09-08-2008, 11:11 PM
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Default Re: World Populaton Growth?!

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Originally Posted by Eeveeking929 View Post
And one more thing Azumao. You completely ignored this statement: Nothing excuses genocide. Even if it's efficient, even if it will decrease the population, those are PEOPLE just as much as you or me, and there is absolutely no reason that we should kill people just because they aren't productive. What's next, putting old people to sleep? Killing war veterans who lost their arms? Just because people aren't productive doesn't mean that they aren't people, and there's no excuse for killing them due to cirumstances out of their control.
Since Kenny responded to the first part, I'm not going to.

As far as this part: that's not a fact. It's an opinion. I don't have to try to disprove it or whatever you're asking me to do with it. I don't think that they aren't people, but people are animals. People hunt animals. In nature, animals that are defective or less productive die off. It's called evolution. And like I've said 3 times, as a last resort. I don't think it's a good bit of karma, but it's one solution.

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Originally Posted by Kenny_C.002 View Post
Azumao: The problem here is that you can't possibly do something like that due to the morality card. You're not being a realist if you think that you can simply eliminate the "unproductive" to depopulate the world simply because of morality. Besides that point, the fraction of "unproductive" people range from very few to a ton depending on where you draw the line, and lacking a moral baseline, anybody can theoretically be killed.
Morality is nice, I'm all for morality. But I'd rather be alive. If we are running out of space, that would create more space. I have that pessimistic, instinctual view. Humans, just like animals, will kill others to keep themselves alive sometimes. Not normally, since we are a civilized species. But if overpopulation combined with a scarce food supply I can easily predict we will begin to revert. And wouldn't you rather do what most other animals do and kill off the weak rather than the strong? A weak antelope is still an antelope, but it is less efficient. The predator will get to it first. A weak human is still a human, but should be taken out first if some must be taken out. I don't want to resort to mass genocide, but if the situation occurs that would be a solution. As opposed to all starving.
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  #35  
Old 09-08-2008, 11:18 PM
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Default Re: World Populaton Growth?!

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Originally Posted by Azumao View Post
Since Kenny responded to the first part, I'm not going to.

As far as this part: that's not a fact. It's an opinion. I don't have to try to disprove it or whatever you're asking me to do with it. I don't think that they aren't people, but people are animals. People hunt animals. In nature, animals that are defective or less productive die off. It's called evolution. And like I've said 3 times, as a last resort. I don't think it's a good bit of karma, but it's one solution.



Morality is nice, I'm all for morality. But I'd rather be alive. If we are running out of space, that would create more space. I have that pessimistic, instinctual view. Humans, just like animals, will kill others to keep themselves alive sometimes. Not normally, since we are a civilized species. But if overpopulation combined with a scarce food supply I can easily predict we will begin to revert. And wouldn't you rather do what most other animals do and kill off the weak rather than the strong? A weak antelope is still an antelope, but it is less efficient. The predator will get to it first. A weak human is still a human, but should be taken out first if some must be taken out. I don't want to resort to mass genocide, but if the situation occurs that would be a solution. As opposed to all starving.
You know what Azumao, you keep that efficiency idea. I'm going to keep my sense of morality. Killing is never the answer, ever, and until you can prove to me that there's no other way then I'm going to keep waiting for it.
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  #36  
Old 09-09-2008, 12:10 AM
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Default Re: World Populaton Growth?!

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Originally Posted by Eeveeking929 View Post
You know what Azumao, you keep that efficiency idea. I'm going to keep my sense of morality. Killing is never the answer, ever, and until you can prove to me that there's no other way then I'm going to keep waiting for it.
Well it's impossible to prove to you that there's no other way. I'd have to find every idea currently existing and every idea yet to come and disprove them all. And to be honest, I don't have the time nor the resources to do that.

Killing is often the answer. If a guy has a gun to your head and you are by yourself, also holding a gun, what would you do? Would you let him shoot you, or would you shoot him first so you live?

Just because I'm not happy-go-lucky and lying to myself about how there's always a positive solution doesn't mean I'm wrong. Morals are a matter of opinion, and while you think that killing is never the answer, that's your opinion. You need to stop stating it like a fact.
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  #37  
Old 09-09-2008, 12:24 AM
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Default Re: World Populaton Growth?!

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Originally Posted by Azumao View Post
Well it's impossible to prove to you that there's no other way. I'd have to find every idea currently existing and every idea yet to come and disprove them all. And to be honest, I don't have the time nor the resources to do that.

Killing is often the answer. If a guy has a gun to your head and you are by yourself, also holding a gun, what would you do? Would you let him shoot you, or would you shoot him first so you live?

Just because I'm not happy-go-lucky and lying to myself about how there's always a positive solution doesn't mean I'm wrong. Morals are a matter of opinion, and while you think that killing is never the answer, that's your opinion. You need to stop stating it like a fact.
Alright. It's my opinion that KILLING IS NEVER AN OPTION!

As for your question, I would do neither. I would first try to talk him out of shooting me, and if that failed, I would simultaneously grab his arm, pushing it backwards, and move my head forward, putting me out of the line of fire, and then pistol whip him. Go ahead, give me more, I'll find a nonlethal solution to anything you can throw at me.

Oh, and one more problem with your brilliant genocide. It's never, ever, ever going to get support. The people won't go for it, and assuming a legislature even picks the idea up and looks at it, the implementation of it would last as long as it takes to boot the current legislature in favor of one that, you know, doesn't support genocide. And of course, that's assuming any, say, Congressman would actually be willing to take the political bottle of pills that is the act of introducing such a bill.
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  #38  
Old 09-09-2008, 12:28 AM
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Default Re: World Populaton Growth?!

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Originally Posted by Eeveeking929 View Post
Alright. It's my opinion that KILLING IS NEVER AN OPTION!

As for your question, I would do neither. I would first try to talk him out of shooting me, and if that failed, I would simultaneously grab his arm, pushing it backwards, and move my head forward, putting me out of the line of fire, and then pistol whip him. Go ahead, give me more, I'll find a nonlethal solution to anything you can throw at me.

Oh, and one more problem with your brilliant genocide. It's never, ever, ever going to get support. The people won't go for it, and assuming a legislature even picks the idea up and looks at it, the implementation of it would last as long as it takes to boot the current legislature in favor of one that, you know, doesn't support genocide. And of course, that's assuming any, say, Congressman would actually be willing to take the political bottle of pills that is the act of introducing such a bill.
Just because the people don't support it doesn't mean it's not an effective solution. :P

And as far as "talking to him"...if a guy is holding a gun to your head, he's not going to talk to you about it. He's going to shoot you. As far as you grabbing his hand or whatever you just described, he would have shot you by then. To defend your life you often need to kill others, if put in a life threatening situation with another person. Killing other animals is nature. You seem to deny that. In nature, animals die at the "hands" of other animals. Humans are just an egotistical bit of nature.

However, we are really getting off topic, and I'm getting the feeling you are starting to act more like an angry arguer than a debater. So let's get back on topic and be mature.
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  #39  
Old 09-09-2008, 12:50 AM
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Default Re: World Populaton Growth?!

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Originally Posted by Azumao View Post
Just because the people don't support it doesn't mean it's not an effective solution. :P

And as far as "talking to him"...if a guy is holding a gun to your head, he's not going to talk to you about it. He's going to shoot you. As far as you grabbing his hand or whatever you just described, he would have shot you by then. To defend your life you often need to kill others, if put in a life threatening situation with another person. Killing other animals is nature. You seem to deny that. In nature, animals die at the "hands" of other animals. Humans are just an egotistical bit of nature.

However, we are really getting off topic, and I'm getting the feeling you are starting to act more like an angry arguer than a debater. So let's get back on topic and be mature.
Yes. I believe that we need to find a nonlethal solution to overpopulation, therefore I must be immature.

My point about the lack of support is that it's never going to be done, at least not in any democracies in the world. It's never going to happen. I agree with you that it would be efficient, I've never said it wouldn't be. It would be wrong, certainly, but it would temporarily solve the problem (see below). But it's not going to happen.

And for my "temporarily" comment, it's the same thing I say with offshore drilling. sure, we'll have some oil for a while, and gas prices will drop, but sooner or later it will run out and we'll find ourselves in exactly the same situation, except without offshore drilling to fall back on. Same idea here. We could very easily kill off everyone unproductive to society, but we still breed at too high a rate. I would certainly one day like to have kids, and more than one. Eventually we will face overpopulation again, and we won't have that scapegoat. What then, enforce nuclear families by killing any children the families have after that? Because I think my baby cousin Sam would disagree with that idea.
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  #40  
Old 09-10-2008, 12:04 AM
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Default Re: World Populaton Growth?!

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Originally Posted by Eeveeking929 View Post
Yes. I believe that we need to find a nonlethal solution to overpopulation, therefore I must be immature.

My point about the lack of support is that it's never going to be done, at least not in any democracies in the world. It's never going to happen. I agree with you that it would be efficient, I've never said it wouldn't be. It would be wrong, certainly, but it would temporarily solve the problem (see below). But it's not going to happen.

And for my "temporarily" comment, it's the same thing I say with offshore drilling. sure, we'll have some oil for a while, and gas prices will drop, but sooner or later it will run out and we'll find ourselves in exactly the same situation, except without offshore drilling to fall back on. Same idea here. We could very easily kill off everyone unproductive to society, but we still breed at too high a rate. I would certainly one day like to have kids, and more than one. Eventually we will face overpopulation again, and we won't have that scapegoat. What then, enforce nuclear families by killing any children the families have after that? Because I think my baby cousin Sam would disagree with that idea.
Nice job misreading. I called you immature for veering off topic into a personal argument with me about the ethics of killing people in different situations.

And it's hard to find a permanent solution to any problem, since life is constantly changing and the scenario itself shifts.

So let's get back to discussing solutions rather than discussing how mine is ethically wrong. Even though, as I previously stated, ethics and morals are opinions and you still seem to take them as facts. :P

So why don't you elaborate on one of your nonlethal solutions.
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  #41  
Old 09-10-2008, 02:00 AM
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Default Re: World Populaton Growth?!

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Originally Posted by Azumao View Post
Nice job misreading. I called you immature for veering off topic into a personal argument with me about the ethics of killing people in different situations.

And it's hard to find a permanent solution to any problem, since life is constantly changing and the scenario itself shifts.

So let's get back to discussing solutions rather than discussing how mine is ethically wrong. Even though, as I previously stated, ethics and morals are opinions and you still seem to take them as facts. :P

So why don't you elaborate on one of your nonlethal solutions.
I apologize for misreading. But I see ethics as a part of life. If there's a matter that goes against my ethics, I'm going to argue against it on those grounds. And aside from that, putting my personal morals aside, genocide is an international crime. As in forbidden to everyone. The world has already broken enough rules, we don't need to break another one.

We need to focus on a way to expand our land and resources. I already offered one idea with planetary terraforming, but that might not be the answer. I think it is, but you never know. The point is, at the very least after we figure out renewable energy, we need to figure out how to make it so that people don't have to die in order to solve this crisis.

Oh, and one last thing about your idea. Go look up disabled people who have made major contributions and see what you come up with. Among that list you'll find FDR, Hellen Keller, Ray Charles, Stevie Wonder (okay, not technically political or scientific or anything, but culturally, yes, major contributions).
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  #42  
Old 09-10-2008, 03:11 AM
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Default Re: World Populaton Growth?!

Well there'd be more space on this Earth if your mom would stop taking up half of it.

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  #43  
Old 09-10-2008, 08:43 PM
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Well there'd be more space on this Earth if your mom would stop taking up half of it.

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  #44  
Old 09-10-2008, 08:59 PM
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Default Re: World Populaton Growth?!

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Well there'd be more space on this Earth if your mom would stop taking up half of it.

Actually, I find this a quite interesting point and should be open for discussion.
This thread is open for all sides of debate, and no where in the first post did it say "DO NOT TALK ABOUT THIS KTHX".

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  #45  
Old 09-10-2008, 10:13 PM
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Default Re: World Populaton Growth?!

If we're counting population by volume; fat mamas are definitely an issue.
Please, have all of your fat mamas spayed & neutered.



I've been thinking: perhaps we should all just resort to cannibalism; only for a little while though, until the numbers are managable again.

I totally just ended world hunger & over population. Noble prize here I come.
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