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  #1  
Old 08-28-2008, 11:02 PM
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Default Russia is going to screw us...

After Russia's invasion of Georgia (Which was reason enough for the U.S. to attack, but we were too f***ing busy in Iraq) tension rose in the world, at least, it did in me. Call me crazy, but the fact that there was an overseas full scale invasion puts me just a little on edge. Am I the only one who is just a little pissed that when there is actually a decent reason for military force, our forces are used as a threat, but a blind man could see that we are clearly in no position to be using them?

Argh, and now Russia just tested a long range missile that they threaten to use against the missile defense system that the U.S. is putting on Poland.

Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 08-28-2008, 11:20 PM
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Default Re: Russia is going to screw us...

The fact is Charbok, the nuclear bomb changed literally everything we know about war. Two nations that have access to long range nuclear missiles can NOT go to war with each other under any circumstances, and the members of the nuclear club hold power over the nations that don't. That's one of the main reason that people are so worried about Iran's nuclear program. If they developed nuclear missiles, then we would be screwed. They would be able to attack anyone they want, just like Russia did with Georgia, and no one would be able to do anything. Sooner or later, some other member of the nuclear club will join in, and then another, and another. In the end, Russia isn't going to screw us, George Orwell is going to prove himself a prophet (not the actual book 1984, but his essay "You and the Atomic Bomb"). We're going to find ourselves with not 245 countries in the world, but a handful who have been militarily far more powerful than all the others, all locked in perpetual war, all under most likely a communistic or otherwise militaristically run governmental system, and all unable to gain any ground on each other until finally one leader decides "screw it, I'm breaking the rules and nuking everyone", thus destroying the world. Cheery picture, no?
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  #3  
Old 08-29-2008, 04:42 AM
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Default Re: Russia is going to screw us...

While Russia definitely did not make the best choice...
I just felt the need to point out that part of teh reason for their attack on Georgia, was the fact that Georgia was trying to take advantage of certain events to kill many russians within georgia. IE, ethnic cleansing. Georgia attacked all the non-georgian citizens of South Ossetia, after all.
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  #4  
Old 08-29-2008, 04:47 AM
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Default Re: Russia is going to screw us...

To clarify, I didn't mean that they were going to screw us. I meant that they're just going to screw... If that makes sense.
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Old 08-29-2008, 04:51 AM
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Default Re: Russia is going to screw us...

Russia and US will never go against each other in war. Both have common engines that won't hesitate to pull the carpet from under them, if they try something stupid.

Besides, ignore Russia's threats. Russia is pretty much isolated, besides they need help in the War on Terror...they'll just make statements, but handle the situation diplomatically.

Oh, finally- if there's a War, army needs oil. Mobil, Exxon and Standard, which have common bases refuse to sell oil. Owned.
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Old 08-29-2008, 08:13 AM
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Default Re: Russia is going to screw us...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charbok View Post
After Russia's invasion of Georgia (Which was reason enough for the U.S. to attack, but we were too f***ing busy in Iraq) tension rose in the world, at least, it did in me. Call me crazy, but the fact that there was an overseas full scale invasion puts me just a little on edge. Am I the only one who is just a little pissed that when there is actually a decent reason for military force, our forces are used as a threat, but a blind man could see that we are clearly in no position to be using them?

Argh, and now Russia just tested a long range missile that they threaten to use against the missile defense system that the U.S. is putting on Poland.

Thoughts?
Georgia and Russia share a border, so there was no overseas conflict. The fact that we are building a "defense" system in a place where we could easily attack Russia, I can see why they threatened us. It still worries me, though.
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Old 08-30-2008, 12:49 AM
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Default Re: Russia is going to screw us...

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Originally Posted by karmachameleon View Post
Georgia and Russia share a border, so there was no overseas conflict. The fact that we are building a "defense" system in a place where we could easily attack Russia, I can see why they threatened us. It still worries me, though.
I meant that the invasion happened overseas in relation to the U.S.
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Old 08-30-2008, 01:17 AM
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Default Re: Russia is going to screw us...

The U.S. needs to stop "policing", if I may call it that, the world. Pretty much, we got attacked, and we attacked back on opposition terrorist groups. In my opinion, this is something the UN (United Nations) should take care of as a group. If we take them on, who's to say we have a definite cause? Okay, they invaded another country, which is really bad on thier part, but what exactly does this have to do with us? I mean Russia does have the chance of perhaps a slight European domination, but I highly doubt that happens. Once again, the U.S. it's putting it's "policing" powers on display. I'm not saying that Russia isn't at fault, but for just the U.S. to get invovled...rather stupid. We're still stuck in the Middle East fighting a "war" that should've ended quite some time ago. Perhaps we need to let someone else take care of it....
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  #9  
Old 08-30-2008, 04:13 AM
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Default Re: Russia is going to screw us...

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Originally Posted by H3RO View Post
The U.S. needs to stop "policing", if I may call it that, the world. Pretty much, we got attacked, and we attacked back on opposition terrorist groups. In my opinion, this is something the UN (United Nations) should take care of as a group. If we take them on, who's to say we have a definite cause? Okay, they invaded another country, which is really bad on thier part, but what exactly does this have to do with us? I mean Russia does have the chance of perhaps a slight European domination, but I highly doubt that happens. Once again, the U.S. it's putting it's "policing" powers on display. I'm not saying that Russia isn't at fault, but for just the U.S. to get invovled...rather stupid. We're still stuck in the Middle East fighting a "war" that should've ended quite some time ago. Perhaps we need to let someone else take care of it....
While I do agree with you to some extent, I would also like to point out that due to our status as one of the strongest military and economic powers in the world in addition to the same obligations to our fellow man that we share with everyone, it does make sense that we would police the world to some extent. Not to mention the fact that Georgia is one of our few allies left. But we aren't going to war, at the very most we'd possibly strongarm Russia into backing down. Unfortunately, due to the fact that we're over three trillion dollars in debt and have alienated almost all of our foreign allies, we won't be able to do that because we'll have almost nothing to back it up. We can't lead the strongarming, instead we have to hope someone else does and then back them. And in the meantime, we have to get out of Iraq because that's where the three trillion in debt and alienation of our allies came from, and maybe if we freaking stop there we can start fixing those things.
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  #10  
Old 08-30-2008, 04:43 AM
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Default Re: Russia is going to screw us...

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Originally Posted by Eeveeking929 View Post
While I do agree with you to some extent, I would also like to point out that due to our status as one of the strongest military and economic powers in the world in addition to the same obligations to our fellow man that we share with everyone, it does make sense that we would police the world to some extent. Not to mention the fact that Georgia is one of our few allies left. But we aren't going to war, at the very most we'd possibly strongarm Russia into backing down. Unfortunately, due to the fact that we're over three trillion dollars in debt and have alienated almost all of our foreign allies, we won't be able to do that because we'll have almost nothing to back it up. We can't lead the strongarming, instead we have to hope someone else does and then back them. And in the meantime, we have to get out of Iraq because that's where the three trillion in debt and alienation of our allies came from, and maybe if we freaking stop there we can start fixing those things.
Well you have a very strong point there, but at what point does sticking up for you allies go too far? I think perhaps the U.S. pushed it way back in 1991 at a little thing called Desert Storm. Now, Kuwait is a fairly small country, so what use to us was it? Simply, the fact of three magic letters in the world, OIL. Also, if you noticed, when we started fighting in mostly Iraq, what went from Osama bin Laden(formerly trained by the U.S. itself), now became the mission known as Operation Iraqi Freedom. President Bush, both the current president and the first Bush to be in office we're both from Texas and both owned stocks in guess what? OIL. Now, not saying there aren't terrorists in there, but still, there's terrorists in our own country. If the case was liberation, then why haven't we been helping people in Darfur? Right now, a mass genocide is coming along and it's pure wrong. I ask, where is the U.S.? Yeah there are some reliefs there, but wow, some rice really helps to fight off people with AK-47s, Machete's, and explosive devices. Seems to me like America isn't concerned about the wellness of other countries, but in fact what other countries have that the U.S. needs. Now, I'm not solely blaming it on America, but wow, c'mon. If we rush to Georgia's need, then why not anyone else? I understand their our allies, but at the same time, we're doing nothing but trying to propel ourselves further into something we don't even know nor can we get ourselves out of. The longer this goes on, the more up creek we're going to be.
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Old 08-30-2008, 04:53 AM
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Default Re: Russia is going to screw us...

I hate to say it, but even if we completely pull our troops out of every nook and cranny of the world and make it 'none of our business', as some people so eloquently put it, this isn't going to magically go away. Eventually, someone is gonna screw up and we'll all be waiting for the bombs to come down on us. All it takes is one.
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Old 08-30-2008, 05:34 AM
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Default Re: Russia is going to screw us...

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Originally Posted by H3RO View Post
Well you have a very strong point there, but at what point does sticking up for you allies go too far? I think perhaps the U.S. pushed it way back in 1991 at a little thing called Desert Storm. Now, Kuwait is a fairly small country, so what use to us was it? Simply, the fact of three magic letters in the world, OIL. Also, if you noticed, when we started fighting in mostly Iraq, what went from Osama bin Laden(formerly trained by the U.S. itself), now became the mission known as Operation Iraqi Freedom. President Bush, both the current president and the first Bush to be in office we're both from Texas and both owned stocks in guess what? OIL. Now, not saying there aren't terrorists in there, but still, there's terrorists in our own country. If the case was liberation, then why haven't we been helping people in Darfur? Right now, a mass genocide is coming along and it's pure wrong. I ask, where is the U.S.? Yeah there are some reliefs there, but wow, some rice really helps to fight off people with AK-47s, Machete's, and explosive devices. Seems to me like America isn't concerned about the wellness of other countries, but in fact what other countries have that the U.S. needs. Now, I'm not solely blaming it on America, but wow, c'mon. If we rush to Georgia's need, then why not anyone else? I understand their our allies, but at the same time, we're doing nothing but trying to propel ourselves further into something we don't even know nor can we get ourselves out of. The longer this goes on, the more up creek we're going to be.
And you're absolutely right about that. In instances where it's all about us and our oil then there's absolutely no reason to do it, and helping in Darfur and such is exactly what I mean when I say we have an obligation to "police" the world, although more accurately it's more like ensuring peace. We should be in Darfur. We should not be in Iraq. But I do think we should also be helping Georgia, and European nations should too. Georgia is a good ally to most countries, and it's territory is being invaded. That's ground enough to step in, and even if we can't because of a certain war that we shouldn't be in, Europe should be in there already.

SBaby, you are right about that. We can't just sit back and do nothing. Pearl Harbor is a perfect example of what you're talking about. What we're saying is, don't go to war until it's absolutely necessary. We didn't directly enter either World War until it was absolutely necessary. The Civil War was necessary as well. And now look at Iraq. Why are we still there? For no reason other than for government officials and oil companies to line their pockets with money, when we should be focusing in Afghanistan. You know, Afghanistan, the place where the man who orchestrated the first great American crisis of the twenty-first century is currently hiding and where Al Queda has set up shop, that Afghanistan?
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  #13  
Old 08-30-2008, 05:15 PM
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Default Re: Russia is going to screw us...

Quote:
Originally Posted by H3RO View Post
The U.S. needs to stop "policing", if I may call it that, the world. Pretty much, we got attacked, and we attacked back on opposition terrorist groups. In my opinion, this is something the UN (United Nations) should take care of as a group. If we take them on, who's to say we have a definite cause? Okay, they invaded another country, which is really bad on thier part, but what exactly does this have to do with us? I mean Russia does have the chance of perhaps a slight European domination, but I highly doubt that happens. Once again, the U.S. it's putting it's "policing" powers on display. I'm not saying that Russia isn't at fault, but for just the U.S. to get invovled...rather stupid. We're still stuck in the Middle East fighting a "war" that should've ended quite some time ago. Perhaps we need to let someone else take care of it....
Why was World War II and Hitler our problem? It wasn't, but don't tell me that it was stupid that we helped out.
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Old 08-30-2008, 05:31 PM
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Default Re: Russia is going to screw us...

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Why was World War II and Hitler our problem? It wasn't, but don't tell me that it was stupid that we helped out.
The concept of helping Georgia and helping Europe in WWII are two completely different things though. Plus, Japan attacked us, therefore it was only right to attack back. I mean, Russia really has no right invading Georgia, but how can you possibly compare that to what Hitler did? I believe that Russians aren't doing a mass genocide, taking over other countries, nor aiming for world domination. However, the move of taking over Georgia isn't exactly right either. It's not our battle though, it should be something other European countries should help, and then if Russia tried doing it for a second time, succeeded, and kept going on, we take action.
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Old 08-30-2008, 09:17 PM
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Default Re: Russia is going to screw us...

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Originally Posted by H3RO View Post
The concept of helping Georgia and helping Europe in WWII are two completely different things though. Plus, Japan attacked us, therefore it was only right to attack back. I mean, Russia really has no right invading Georgia, but how can you possibly compare that to what Hitler did? I believe that Russians aren't doing a mass genocide, taking over other countries, nor aiming for world domination. However, the move of taking over Georgia isn't exactly right either. It's not our battle though, it should be something other European countries should help, and then if Russia tried doing it for a second time, succeeded, and kept going on, we take action.
But is it really fair to just draw a line and if so many people aren't getting killed, we won't help them?

We should help any country in need that we have the power to save, especially our allies.
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