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Rate My Team Get your competitive battling team rated here and get help with movesets and battling strategies.


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  #16  
Old 07-31-2008, 08:17 PM
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Default Re: New: Official PE2k D/P Tier List

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Originally Posted by Seanrocks126 View Post
I thought Medicham was BL? To be quit honest it's not that great there are plenty of better physical sweepers and his speed holds him back. He can be good at times but i think he fits more into the UU/BL tier.
I agree that he's not really OU material in power or usage, but UU? That's talk of the devil. :o
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  #17  
Old 07-31-2008, 08:38 PM
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Default Re: New: Official PE2k D/P Tier List

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Away View Post
I agree that he's not really OU material in power or usage, but UU? That's talk of the devil. :o
I was implying he is more of a pokemon for B;/uu usage lol. He should be BL
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  #18  
Old 07-31-2008, 10:15 PM
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Default Re: New: Official PE2k D/P Tier List

Post an exact copy of this thread in the Strategies and Movesets section, the tier list that is currently there is an 11 tier R/S/E setup.
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Last edited by Claona; 07-31-2008 at 10:20 PM.
  #19  
Old 07-31-2008, 10:31 PM
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Default Re: New: Official PE2k D/P Tier List

I don't see how BL/OU is debatable since the difference of the tiers is strictly usage. I guess you could debate where the separation is, but it's 40-ish basically. Some of the current "OU" pokemon don't make sense, such as Weezing who is barely ever used as most people find Gliscor favorable. Same with stuff like Medicham and Donphan, who see sporadic use (at best).

Also that Garchomp thread was posted a long time ago and the metagame has changed quite a bit. On top of that, there are flaws in that argument so I don't think simply declaring Garchomp uber is accurate or helpful. imo debating it is kind of useless as well since people will always disagree about it and it will turn this thread into a mess (it did on PokeCommunity)

Otherwise no real objections. I don't know anything about UU and below so I can't intelligently comment on those tiers. Thanks for posting this though...the other one was a bit of a mess.
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  #20  
Old 07-31-2008, 10:48 PM
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Default Re: New: Official PE2k D/P Tier List

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Away View Post
What's Leafeon doing in BL? It's a longtime UU staple, and it has to compete with other grass types (notably Meganium) in that tier. It's definitely not what I'd call a huge threat to UU, as its moves get resisted all over the place, and Drapion will stop just about every set cold.

Same goes for Lopunny -- I almost think you putting it in BL is a mistake. All its got going for it is a slightly usable niche in Switcheroo/Klutz and decent speed, with average of below average everywhere else.
Oops, missed those.

Weezing and Medicham are BL. I'm not so sure about Donphan though. I still see quite a bit of him.
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  #21  
Old 08-01-2008, 12:36 AM
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Default Re: New: Official PE2k D/P Tier List

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Originally Posted by Leman View Post
Oops, missed those.

Weezing and Medicham are BL. I'm not so sure about Donphan though. I still see quite a bit of him.
Inferior to Hippowdon. There are better spinners. He's probably BL in usage.
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  #22  
Old 08-01-2008, 12:48 AM
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Default Re: New: Official PE2k D/P Tier List

Actually he's right on the edge with usage, right around along with Dugtrio and Milotic. 46th One of the other reason, why I'm not too sure.
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  #23  
Old 08-01-2008, 10:23 AM
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Default Re: New: Official PE2k D/P Tier List

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leman View Post
Well, the other one sort died since CoolKid is inactive. I have decided to post a new one. I believe I've updated it pretty much. Post here if you have anything you think is wrong.

think one person should post it, but most anyone else can help edit it. This is what I was thinking for the tier list:

Ubers:
Arceus
Darkrai
Deoxys
Deoxys (Attack)
Deoxys (Defense)
Dialga
Giratina
Groudon
Ho-oh
Kyogre
Latias
Latios
Lugia
Manaphy
Mew
Mewtwo
Palkia
Rayquaza
Wobbuffet


OverUsed:
Azelf
Blissey
Breloom
Bronzong
Celebi
Cresselia
Deoxys (Speed)
Donphan
Dragonite
Dugtrio
Dusknoir
Electivire
Forretress
Gallade
Garchomp
Gengar
Gliscor
Gyarados
Heatran
Heracross
Hippowdon
Infernape
Jirachi
Jolteon
Lucario
Machamp
Magnezone
Mamoswine
Metagross
Milotic
Porygon-Z
Roserade
Salamence
Scizor
Skarmory
Slowbro
Spiritomb
Starmie
Suicune
Swampert
Tentacruel
Togekiss
Tyranitar
Vaporeon
Weavile
Yanmega
Zapdos


Borderline:

Abomosnow - OU
Alakazam
Aerodactyl - OU
Ambipom
Arcanine
Articuno
Azumaril
Blaziken
Chansey
Charizard
Cradily
Crobat
Electrode
Empoleon
Entei
Espeon
Exeggutor
Feraligatr
Floatzel
Flygon
Gardevoir
Gligar
Hariyama
Haunter
Houndoom
Kingdra
Lapras
Lickilicky
Ludicolo
Magmortar
Marowak
Medicham
Mesprit
Miltank
Mismagius
Moltres
Ninjask
Pinsir
Porygon2
Rampardos
Raikou
Regigigas
Regice
Regirock
Registeel
Rhydon
Rhyperior
Sceptile
Shaymin
Slaking
Slowking
Smeargle
Snorlax
Staraptor
Tauros
Tangrowth
Torterra
Typhlosion
Umbreon
Ursaring
Uxie
Venusaur
Weezing
Wynaut
Zangoose


Underused:

Absol
Aggron
Altaria
Ampharos
Armaldo
Banette
Bastiodon
Blastoise
Bellossom
Butterfree
Cacturne
Camerupt
Carnivine
Chatot
Claydol
Clefable
Cloyster
Crawdaunt
Dodrio
Drapion
Drifblim
Electabuzz
Exploud
Fearow
Flareon
Froslass
Gastrodon
Girafarig
Glaceon
Golduck
Golem
Gorebyss
Granbull
Grumpig
Hitmonchan
Hitmonlee
Hitmontop
Honchkrow
Huntail
Hypno
Jumpluff
Jynx
Kabutops
Kangaskhan
Kecleon
Kingler
Lanturn
Leafeon
Linoone
Lopunny
Luxray
Machoke - NFE
Magcargo
Manectric
Mantine
Meganium
Mr. Mime
Muk
Nidoking
Nidoqueen
Ninetales
Octillery
Omastar
Persian
Phione
Pikachu
Poliwrath
Politoed
Primape
Probopass
Purugly
Quagsire
Qwilfish
Raichu
Rapidash
Raticate
Relicanth
Rotom
Sableye
Sandslash
Scyther - NFE
Sharpedo
Shedinja
Shiftry
Shuckle
Skuntank
Stantler
Steelix
Sudowoodo
Swalot
Swellow
Torkoal
Toxicroak
Venomoth
Vespiquen
Victreebel
Vileplume
Wailord
Walrein
Whiscash
Xatu


NeverUsed:


Arbok
Ariados
Beautifly
Beedrill
Bibarel
Castform
Cherrim
Chimecho
Corsola
Delcatty
Delibird
Dewgong
Ditto
Dragonair
Dunsparce
Dustox
Farfetch'd
Furret
Glalie
Illumise
Kricketune
Ledian
Lumineon
Lunatone
Luvdisc
Masquerain
Mawile - UU
Minun
Mightyena
Mothim
Noctowl
Pachirisu
Parasect
Pidgeot
Plusle
Pupitar
Seaking
Seviper
Shelgon
Solrock
Spinda
Sunflora - UU
Trapinch
Tropius
Unown
Volbeat
Wigglytuff
Wormadam [Grass]
Wormadam [Ground]
Wormadam [Steel]

Debatable:

Ubers-OU: Garchomp

OU-BL: PorygonZ, Donphan

BL-UU: Scyther, Pinsir

UU-NU: None
Abomasnow: It's OU purely because of it's ability. Whenever you make a Hail team, it is in 99% of those, purely because of the ability. Because of this fact, it is used quite a bit, which is the term of 'Over-Used'.

Aerodactyl: It's seen a major rise in usage recently, and is one of the better leads currently. It can hold it's own against a fair few pokemon, and doesn't have as many counters as people think. (Athough I think the obvious Bronzong problem may hinder people to using it...)

Scyther/Machoke etc: These pokemon simply make UU a lesser OU, which isn't what we want. Scyther and Sneasel mainly are two pokemon that can tear the UU metagame apart, because what counter their evolutions in OU aren't present in UU.

Sunflora: It's ability and movepool should make it at least UU. I've played it in my UU Sunny Day team and it has massive potential. NU is definately not the place for it.

Mawile: With Intimidate and it's Steel typing, Mawile can actually make a decent physical tank in UU. It doesn't have a horrible movepool, and is usable.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Garchomp - OU: I'm sorry, but an ability doesn't make a pokemon Uber. With the introduction of Deoxys-E to the metagame, it has become even easier to kill Garchomp. I know how people feel on this issue, I was once on the side pushing for Uber status, but then you must realize, Sand Veil doesn't make it Uber. Also, it came to a point where people were saying 'Yeah, but Garchomp has so many different sets that you can't be sure what they'll be running et cetera.'

The problem with that is, people started thinking of Garchomp as running ever move under the sun in it's 4 move slots. (i.e. Having Outrage, Dragon Claw, Fire Blast/Flamethrower, Fire Fang, Earthquake, Stone Edge, Crunch, Swords Dance, Substitute, Choice Band, Choice Scarf, Life Orb, Yache berry all on the one set) It may seem odd, but that is what it ended up as. All sets are countered differently, but they are counterable by a fair few OU pokemon, and as such Garchomp isn't as broken as people make out, although I do agree it is a major player.

Porygon-Z/Donphan: I cannot form an opinion on Donphan, but Porygon-Z has seen a major fall from grace. It's now far to predictable and easy to counter in the current metagame, but I can see it's base 135 Sp. Atk overpowering in BL. (Not to mention it's ability) Because of this, I think OU is the place.

Scyther - NFE, Pinsir - UU: As I previously stated, Scyther should be banned from UU, as should all the other pre-evo's similar to their OU counterparts. Pinsir is UU, it's ability is one of the main reasons it was considered BL for awhile, but it doesn't have the type coverage that other pokemon do, and it's typing is rather poor, especially the resistences side of things.

~T_S
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Last edited by Tortured_Soul; 08-01-2008 at 10:32 AM.
  #24  
Old 08-01-2008, 01:48 PM
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Default Re: New: Official PE2k D/P Tier List

Why should Scyther be considered making UU a "mini-OU" when he has unique stat distribution that still makes him usable and unique from Scizor? I agree that Machoke is nothing new, but Scyther's different set of STAB moves and higher speed manages to differentiate him from Scizor quite a lot.

Aero and Aboma aren't overused at all, just going by current statistics. I'm well aware that Aero is probably going to see a huge rise in usage thanks to husk's team soon, but that doesn't mean we're allowed to just assume he will be OU when we have nothing to back it up.
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  #25  
Old 08-01-2008, 04:25 PM
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Default Re: New: Official PE2k D/P Tier List

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Away View Post
Why should Scyther be considered making UU a "mini-OU" when he has unique stat distribution that still makes him usable and unique from Scizor? I agree that Machoke is nothing new, but Scyther's different set of STAB moves and higher speed manages to differentiate him from Scizor quite a lot.

Aero and Aboma aren't overused at all, just going by current statistics. I'm well aware that Aero is probably going to see a huge rise in usage thanks to husk's team soon, but that doesn't mean we're allowed to just assume he will be OU when we have nothing to back it up.
I have seen way to many Aero leads lately. I belive it should be OU but thats just my opinion. Its ability to taunt fast and set up rocks is very good.
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  #26  
Old 08-01-2008, 05:46 PM
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Default Re: New: Official PE2k D/P Tier List

Quote:
I'm sorry, but an ability doesn't make a pokemon Uber.
i'm sorry what was that

Agreeing on Machoke being removed but Scyther is a unique NFE and should remain where it is. IIRC Abomasnow, Aerodactyl, Donphan, and Porygon-Z are all BL on Smogon's list, take that as you will.
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  #27  
Old 08-01-2008, 07:17 PM
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Default Re: New: Official PE2k D/P Tier List

I would say Ninjask is a OU after all everybody uses it just to get speed and BP.
Anyhow good luck with this new thread.
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  #28  
Old 08-01-2008, 08:37 PM
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Default Re: New: Official PE2k D/P Tier List

Overpowering BL T_S? BL is a fun fake metagame, but it's not a real metagame, seriously. If it is, then Staraptor and Magmortar should be OU too, as nothing stops them in BLs. I've played BL matches before and it's way too unstable to be seriously played.

I agree with Fire Away and shedinjask about Scyther - it's much different from Scizor and doesn't make UU OU-lite or anything. Agreeing with both of you on Machoke though.

Also, Garchomp doesn't have Shadow Tag, effectively trapping all of its counters (in Wobb's case obviously). I'm sure you know that, but I think it should be brought up as Sand Veil is far different than Shadow Tag. I agree with T_S that it should be OU, without only one set having no counters (the SD Yache Outrage Chomp). If it really becomes a pain, just ban the Outrage + Yache Berry combination on Garchomp and keep it OU. All of it other sets can be dealt with.

Also despite Aerodactyl being a good lead, it isn't really close to common enough to be OU yet. It still doesn't see the usage of even less common pokemon like Porygon-Z and Donphan, both of whom are BL as well. Same with Abomasnow...it just isn't used that much. Yeah, it's a necessity for hail teams, but how common are those exactly? I mean, people prefer SS with Tyranitar or Hippowdon, both superior pokemon to Aboma, and they also get Gliscor and of course Garchomp to abuse Sand Veil. So yeah, there's probably a good reason hail isn't as common.

Most of that isn't even relevant as BL/OU is strictly defined by usage. And for me, there's a reason Aero and Aboma aren't used that much.

EDIT: Nobody uses Ninjask. It's only usable on BP teams (although it's very useful there) but those are practically obsolete.
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  #29  
Old 08-03-2008, 05:12 PM
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Default Re: New: Official PE2k D/P Tier List

Smogon's Shoddy usage statistics

Seeing as the official shoddy sight hasn't posted those yet.

Aerodactyl and Donphan are right next to each other as of usage. (49 and 51). So as of now, I think that they should be in the same tier, which is BL.

Machoke goes. I missed him when I was editing the list.

Scyther has a higher speed, lower defenses, and a 90 power STAB Aerial Ace, and is different than Scizor.
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  #30  
Old 08-03-2008, 09:24 PM
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Default Re: New: Official PE2k D/P Tier List

Of course Sand Veil isn't Shadow Tag, but from what I've seen most people believe that it tips the scales towards Uber. That and Yache Berry. Besides, if I never point out mistakes then how are people to better themselves? :O

You can't ban Outrage on Garchomp. I doubt you could get away with banning Yache Berry without everyone all of a sudden going 'Manaphy without Tail Glow isn't Uber unban it and just ban Tail Glow' and then it's all one big mess.
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