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  #226  
Old 02-17-2009, 06:01 PM
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Default Re: The Ethics of Abortion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobodys_Nerd View Post
What are you talking about? Obama's plan is absolutely for teenagers. Taking away a parent's right to know what their daughters are doing 'for laughs' is an absolute abomination. And I'm glad you think it's so funny that millions of babies are dying each year. Really, they're just dying for laughs, yeah?
Speculation. Prove its for teenagers and I'll be inclined to believe this.

Quote:
No, I'm saying it was entirely morally wrong.
What may be morally wrong for you, may not be so for others.

Quote:
It's not theirs. The baby is a genetically unique being, and the woman has no control over whether it should live or die, just because she's too stupid to realize that she shouldn't have had sex when she wasn't ready for the consequences.
Speculation without actual proof...?

Quote:
The fault doesn't just lie with women, it lies with all of society for glorifying sex and abortion as a convenient way to get out of a situation that they don't like.
Society doesn't glorify abortion. It merely defines abortion...and abortion is not a society issue. Its an issue about individuality/freedom.

Quote:
No, he has absolutely not given out any more rights to anyone but the woman. I've already stated, he's taking away the rights of doctors to refuse on moral grounds, he's putting taxpayer money (some of which comes from pro-life people) into abortion clinics, not to mention the rights of parents and the babies.
I've read the legislation Bill, I haven't read anything that says he can take their right away. Prove me wrong please.

Quote:
Hmmm, ever heard of a law? Every piece of legislation that comes out of Congress is going to impose someone's beliefs on someone else that doesn't like it. So, I suppose the natural solution is to get rid of all government and devolve into anarchy and chaos, right?
That's why we've something called a Court system and a democracy, where the right of the majority- whether or not the majority of the population are idiots is a different thing.

Quote:
And, you still haven't answered the easy question: Why to women have sex when they know they could end up pregnant if they don't want a child? It's common sense! Then again, I suppose I don't know many teenagers with any of that, either.
So women can't have sex because they could get pregnant. Boys can have sex since they cannot get pregnant?

Fine, here's an example.

Someone gets AIDS through sex. Or whatever. Then he cannot get aids medication and should die, since it was his own fault that he got aids. He should've been more careful when he was sharing syringes/having sex. If you were a doctor, would you refuse medication to him on this grounds?
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  #227  
Old 02-17-2009, 06:21 PM
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Default Re: The Ethics of Abortion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Fairy Sugar View Post
Speculation. Prove its for teenagers and I'll be inclined to believe this.
The bill says nothing either way. Therefore I must assume that it applies to everyone.

Quote:
What may be morally wrong for you, may not be so for others.
This is true.

Quote:
Speculation without actual proof...?
Ever learn about meiosis and sexual reproduction in biology? The fetus has half it's mother's DNA, and half of it's father's. Not speculation, scientific fact. Unless you'd like to conclude that every scientific finding ever made is just speculation, of course. But I don't think either of us have the time to go through all of that.

Quote:
Society doesn't glorify abortion. It merely defines abortion...and abortion is not a society issue. Its an issue about individuality/freedom.
And is therefore a society issue. Unfortunately, society does glorify abortion, or we would not be in this mess in the first place. Imagine, if your boyfriend, or your mother, or your best friend would suggest, say, seeking help from Birthright, or adoption, first, instead of just saying, "Get rid of it." I dunno, looks like society has a pretty big role to me.

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I've read the legislation Bill, I haven't read anything that says he can take their right away. Prove me wrong please.
Congress finds the following:

-stuff-

(10) Legal and practical barriers to the full range of reproductive services endanger women's health and lives. Incremental restrictions on the right to choose imposed by Congress and State legislatures have made access to abortion care extremely difficult, if not impossible, for many women across the country. Currently, 87 percent of the counties in the United States have no abortion provider.

-stuff


Those 'legal and practical barriers' include provisions that require parental consent and allow doctors to refuse on the grounds of their personal morality.

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That's why we've something called a Court system and a democracy, where the right of the majority- whether or not the majority of the population are idiots is a different thing.
Which was basically what I was saying.

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So women can't have sex because they could get pregnant. Boys can have sex since they cannot get pregnant?
Of course they can't. They also can't get an abortion. That also doesn't mean it's right for them to just leave their girlfriends/wives desolate. Again, the issue of abortion is a lot bigger than just the act itself. I wish boys would be more supportive of their girlfriends. Again, another citation of why society has such a huge impact on abortion.

Quote:
Fine, here's an example.

Someone gets AIDS through sex. Or whatever. Then he cannot get aids medication and should die, since it was his own fault that he got aids. He should've been more careful when he was sharing syringes/having sex. If you were a doctor, would you refuse medication to him on this grounds?
Giving him medication isn't going to kill another human being.
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  #228  
Old 02-17-2009, 07:15 PM
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Default Re: The Ethics of Abortion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobodys_Nerd View Post
The bill says nothing either way. Therefore I must assume that it applies to everyone.
You, as of five minutes ago:
Quote:
What are you talking about? Obama's plan is absolutely for teenagers.
Glad to see you've changed your statement.

Quote:
Ever learn about meiosis and sexual reproduction in biology? The fetus has half it's mother's DNA, and half of it's father's. Not speculation, scientific fact. Unless you'd like to conclude that every scientific finding ever made is just speculation, of course. But I don't think either of us have the time to go through all of that.
Nope, I'm an Engineering/Finance student.

And you're saying this because...?

Quote:
Originally Posted by you
It's not theirs. The baby is a genetically unique being, and the woman has no control over whether it should live or die, just because she's too stupid to realize that she shouldn't have had sex when she wasn't ready for the consequences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by me
Speculation without actual proof...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by you
Ever learn about meiosis and sexual reproduction in biology? The fetus has half it's mother's DNA, and half of it's father's. Not speculation, scientific fact. Unless you'd like to conclude that every scientific finding ever made is just speculation, of course. But I don't think either of us have the time to go through all of that.
There's been a misunderstanding here. The baby is a biologically unique being. Oh and it isn't a sentient being until..it can live on ventilator, after which it can actually be cnsidered life. At least, thats what medical experts do say..and you say they're wrong?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience

Bleh go find the other links yourself, too lazy.

Oh and who says all women who perform abortions are stupid? Who/what gives you the right to say that? Suppose I call all critics of abortion stupid?
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And is therefore a society issue. Unfortunately, society does glorify abortion, or we would not be in this mess in the first place.
Do show where society glorifies abortion...

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Imagine, if your boyfriend, or your mother, or your best friend would suggest, say, seeking help from Birthright, or adoption, first, instead of just saying, "Get rid of it." I dunno, looks like society has a pretty big role to me.
If it's up to me, then society has no role in it right?

Lets say a girl gets pregnant. Her mother/bf say don't do abortion. She says "STFU I GET THE LAST WORD GTFO". And by the way...boyfriend/mother =/= society. Only if neighbors, and every damn hobo in the street interferes, you can say its society.

Quote:
Congress finds the following:

-stuff-

(10) Legal and practical barriers to the full range of reproductive services endanger women's health and lives. Incremental restrictions on the right to choose imposed by Congress and State legislatures have made access to abortion care extremely difficult, if not impossible, for many women across the country. Currently, 87 percent of the counties in the United States have no abortion provider.

-stuff


Those 'legal and practical barriers' include provisions that require parental consent and allow doctors to refuse on the grounds of their personal morality.

Which was basically what I was saying.
..I don't get it. What were you saying, and what does this thing show that what you said was right? I don't see anything. >:i

Quote:
Of course they can't. They also can't get an abortion. That also doesn't mean it's right for them to just leave their girlfriends/wives desolate. Again, the issue of abortion is a lot bigger than just the act itself. I wish boys would be more supportive of their girlfriends. Again, another citation of why society has such a huge impact on abortion.
How many times..do I get a dictionary and show the difference between society and family..?

Quote:
Giving him medication isn't going to kill another human being.
Answer the question.

Oh and you were talking about abortion in a way that it was the girls fault, were you not? I'm talking about that very same wavelength.

Pure double standards. First you say the girl cannot do abortion because it was her fault, now suddenly you switched to a different frequency?

Oh and Obama's policies on abortion.

International

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:S.2020:

I'm just going to post the main points.

(1) The United States was founded on the principles of individual liberty, personal privacy, and equality. Such principles ensure that each individual is free to make the most intimate decisions free from governmental interference and discrimination.

(2) A woman's decision to commence, prevent, continue, or terminate a pregnancy is one of the most intimate decisions an individual ever faces.

(3) In 1965, in Griswold v. Connecticut (381 U.S. 479), and in 1973, in Roe v. Wade (410 U.S. 113) and Doe v. Bolton (410 U.S. 179), the Supreme Court recognized the right to privacy protected by the Constitution and that such right encompassed the right of every woman to weigh the personal, moral, and religious considerations involved in deciding whether to commence, prevent, continue, or terminate a pregnancy.

(7) In countries where abortion remains illegal, the risk of complications and maternal mortality is high. According to the World Health Organization, of the approximately 600,000 pregnancy-related deaths occurring annually around the world, 80,000 are associated with unsafe abortions.

(8) The Roe v. Wade decision expanded the opportunities for women to participate equally in society. In 1992, in Planned Parenthood v. Casey (505 U.S. 833), the Supreme Court observed that, `[t]he ability of women to participate equally in the economic and social life of the Nation has been facilitated by their ability to control their reproductive lives.'.

(b) PROHIBITION OF INTERFERENCE- A government may not--

(1) deny or interfere with a woman's right to choose--

(A) to bear a child;

(B) to terminate a pregnancy prior to viability; or

(C) to terminate a pregnancy after viability where termination is necessary to protect the life or health of the woman

In this Act:

(1) GOVERNMENT- The term `government' includes a branch, department, agency, instrumentality, or official (or other individual acting under color of law) of the United States, a State, or a subdivision of a State.


That's what FoC act is...nothing that says doctors cannot deny. And by law, doctors have the right to refuse to participate (since the only organization mentined in the act not allowed to provide abortion is the government...)

Read between the lines more. And I'll see what stuffz you've posted and reply later, chatting with a friend on my cell-phone. Excuse me if I forget about you, but I'll be back if/when I remember.
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  #229  
Old 02-17-2009, 07:48 PM
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Default Re: The Ethics of Abortion

Quote:
You, as of five minutes ago:

Glad to see you've changed your statement.
I didn't mean that it only referred to teenagers, I meant that it referred to them as well as older women.

Quote:
There's been a misunderstanding here. The baby is a biologically unique being. Oh and it isn't a sentient being until..it can live on ventilator, after which it can actually be cnsidered life. At least, thats what medical experts do say..and you say they're wrong?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentience

Bleh go find the other links yourself, too lazy.
According to that link, "Sentience is the ability to feel or perceive subjectively. It is an important concept in philosophy, particularly in the philosophy of animal rights and in eastern philosophy, as well as in science fiction and the study of artificial intelligence, although in each of these fields the term is used slightly differently."

What I was talking about (and you said it yourself) was biology, not philosophy. Probably the best definition of life is, "The property or quality that distinguishes living organisms from dead organisms and inanimate matter, manifested in functions such as metabolism, growth, reproduction, and response to stimuli or adaptation to the environment originating from within the organism."

All of which a fetus can do, by the way. Oh, and the quote is from here.

Quote:
Oh and who says all women who perform abortions are stupid? Who/what gives you the right to say that? Suppose I call all critics of abortion stupid?
Then you call all critics of abortion stupid. I'm referring to the people who really do just use abortion as an easy way to get out of a situation they don't like. No, I don't think all people who have abortions are stupid, so I take that one back, at least.

Quote:
Do show where society glorifies abortion...

If it's up to me, then society has no role in it right?

Lets say a girl gets pregnant. Her mother/bf say don't do abortion. She says "STFU I GET THE LAST WORD GTFO". And by the way...boyfriend/mother =/= society. Only if neighbors, and every damn hobo in the street interferes, you can say its society.
According to my dictionary, 'society' can be defined as broadly as "all people, collectively," and as specifically as "one's friends or associates," which would hopefully include one's family. And, in that case, you would be right, society didn't have a role. However, it can have a role in influencing one's decision to have an abortion. Don't tell me there are no girls out there who have ever felt pressured to have one by their friends and family.

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..I don't get it. What were you saying, and what does this thing show that what you said was right? I don't see anything. >:i
That statement is just as binding as any Supreme Court decision ever could be. It can be implied to mean that laws such as the ones I've already stated are wrong, and therefore null.

Quote:
How many times..do I get a dictionary and show the difference between society and family..?
Actually, you haven't cited the dictionary yet in this regard.

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Answer the question.
I did, fully, but in case it was not clear enough, no I would not refuse medication.

Quote:
Oh and you were talking about abortion in a way that it was the girls fault, were you not? I'm talking about that very same wavelength.

Pure double standards. First you say the girl cannot do abortion because it was her fault, now suddenly you switched to a different frequency?
Not at all, actually. My moral opposition to abortion is that it destroys the life of a human being, and always has been. The fact that it's ultimately her fault she's pregnant (except in the case of rape) has to do with another point entirely. One excuse for abortion that I've seen is that she shouldn't have something she doesn't want forced on her, but then she (again, unless in the case of rape) is really the one who brought it upon herself. That point is meant to devalidate the excuse for it, not sum up my opposition.

Quote:
Oh and Obama's policies on abortion.

International
Thank you for proving one of my earlier points all by yourself. Right from that website:

President Barack Obama on Friday struck down the Bush administration's ban on giving federal money to international groups that perform abortions or provide abortion information — an inflammatory policy that has bounced in and out of law for the past quarter-century.

Therefore, if the government does pass a law giving funds to abortion clinics, the taxpayers have no choice but to give money to it. That's not pro-choice.

And I've read the act, thank you. :)
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  #230  
Old 02-17-2009, 07:49 PM
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Default Re: The Ethics of Abortion

I'll come back later once I've read the topic and debate properly, I promise, but for now I just want to LOL at the paradox in the thread title.

EDIT: OK, just some quick food for thought:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobodys_Nerd
Probably the best definition of life is, "The property or quality that distinguishes living organisms from dead organisms and inanimate matter, manifested in functions such as metabolism, growth, reproduction, and response to stimuli or adaptation to the environment originating from within the organism."
I've always been confused by this, the so-called "best definition" of life offered by biology, since every one of these functions is exhibited by fire, which nobody has qualms about killing.
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  #231  
Old 02-18-2009, 01:20 PM
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Default Re: The Ethics of Abortion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobodys_Nerd View Post
Hmmm, ever heard of a law? Every piece of legislation that comes out of Congress is going to impose someone's beliefs on someone else that doesn't like it. So, I suppose the natural solution is to get rid of all government and devolve into anarchy and chaos, right?

As May mentioned, America is a democracy. And I agree that whether or not the majority are idiots is a issue best resolved somewhere else. (Although of course I think the majority are idiots.)

And, you still haven't answered the easy question: Why to women have sex when they know they could end up pregnant if they don't want a child? It's common sense! Then again, I suppose I don't know many teenagers with any of that, either.
Um, because having sex is a pleasure? And because having sex is one of, if not the finest/best way to show your love for your partner? I don't think God made sex just for reproduction purposes. :/ Then why do we get pleasure from it, and make it so sacred? And if you say "so that we will be more willing to reproduce", then you deserve a slap in the face, since I already mentioned how it is sacred. That, and I wish that may you never have a significant other in your life. And natural prevention (i.e. only having sex during certain parts of the menstrual cycle) is stupid, since it nearly always fails due to stuff like stress and other stuff that mess with said cycle. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt women might be too thrilled to have sex when their uterine lining is busy shedding and making the entire organ kinda bloody-ish. And not to mention the hormones zooming around in the woman's body. Ever heard of PMS?

Before you even talk about prevention of pregnancies, I'm going to list all of them out.

Condoms: A lot of trouble for the guys and apparently screws up the experience. Out.

Uterine covers or whatever they are called: 10000x more trouble for the women. They have to insert it in at least 6 hours before having sex. Not to mention it's difficult to put in. And might not work. And really uncomfortable. Out.

Natural Cycle: I mentioned already, it doesn't work because a lot of stuff can screw up the cycle, so the woman could get pregnant anyway. Out.

Pregnancy pills: Basically this just pumps more hormones that prevents the woman from ovulating into her bloodstream. Leading to severe mood swings, screwing with the woman's period, hair loss in some cases, as well as having to be taken regularly for at least 21 days before sex. Seriously, any man with any sort of chivalry is going to avoid this. You have to really be a total arse to make your woman do this.

Condoms are the best, but not everybody has one on them 24/7, and it apparently screws with the experience. Still 99% isn't 100%, as countless legions of R/B/Y players have learnt when their crucial move missed even with the 99.8% chance of hitting. :/

And for your information, I am a teenager. As with plenty of people here, which do know that. I'm sure you already know that, but I'm just going to warn you. Generalise like that and I don't think anyone will be too thrilled about you. Hell, you might even get infracted by a teenage mod. :/

EDIT: OMG Finch, what a comeback, in more ways than one. I shall leave stuff like "Where were you" to somewhere else.
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  #232  
Old 02-18-2009, 02:51 PM
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Default Re: The Ethics of Abortion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobodys_Nerd View Post
I didn't mean that it only referred to teenagers, I meant that it referred to them as well as older women.
First you said "Teenagers", now you retracted on that. Oh god, stop doing a Wunschkind plzkthnx.

Quote:
According to that link, "Sentience is the ability to feel or perceive subjectively. It is an important concept in philosophy, particularly in the philosophy of animal rights and in eastern philosophy, as well as in science fiction and the study of artificial intelligence, although in each of these fields the term is used slightly differently."

What I was talking about (and you said it yourself) was biology, not philosophy. Probably the best definition of life is, "The property or quality that distinguishes living organisms from dead organisms and inanimate matter, manifested in functions such as metabolism, growth, reproduction, and response to stimuli or adaptation to the environment originating from within the organism."

All of which a fetus can do, by the way. Oh, and the quote is from here.
Wunschkind-ing again. You were talking about the sanctity of life, bla bla which was philosophy...

The subject of fetal pain and suffering is controversial. There may be an "emerging consensus among developmental neurobiologists that the establishment of thalamocortical connections" (at about 26 weeks) is a critical event with regard to fetal perception of pain.[44] Nevertheless, because pain can involve sensory, emotional and cognitive factors, it is "impossible to know" when painful experiences may become possible, even if it is known when thalamocortical connections are established.[44] Some experts have asserted that a fetus can sense pain as early as 13 ˝ weeks.
Quote:
According to my dictionary, 'society' can be defined as broadly as "all people, collectively," and as specifically as "one's friends or associates," which would hopefully include one's family. And, in that case, you would be right, society didn't have a role. However, it can have a role in influencing one's decision to have an abortion. Don't tell me there are no girls out there who have ever felt pressured to have one by their friends and family.
All people, irrespective of their sex, age, situation, have been pressured about something serious at any point in their life about something or the other. Including abortion.

However if you'll notice, abortion...would be a personal choice. You'll have the choice whether or not to go ahead with the abortion. In private. However, putting a blanket ban or heavy curbs on it will...affect the society as a whole, and there'll be little choice to even think about it. What then?

Quote:
That statement is just as binding as any Supreme Court decision ever could be. It can be implied to mean that laws such as the ones I've already stated are wrong, and therefore null.
This point is irrelevant, but Supreme Court decisions are not actually "binding". Most, if not all of Supreme Court Decisions are being taken by highly experienced judges and people, who have expertise in this area- not teenagers. Its the Congress that sometimes screws around with stuff (Bleh) but even otherwise, don't think they might have considered all the factors.

Quote:
Actually, you haven't cited the dictionary yet in this regard.
Okey doke. :o

Family: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/family

Society: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/society

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I did, fully, but in case it was not clear enough, no I would not refuse medication.
...Third time you're Wunschkinding.

Okay you were talking about "It was the girl's fault she got pregnant". Along that frequency, you can say "The person wasn't careful, that's why he/she got infected". And medication wouldn't save their life either. Unless you're having double standards on the issue?

A] Its the girls fault that she got pregnant, so she should deal with it.

B] Even though its the persons fault he got infected, I wouldn't refuse medication.

Youv'e got a case of acute fail-itis/double standard-itis, and your double standard is again painfully obvious in the next post.
Quote:
Not at all, actually. My moral opposition to abortion is that it destroys the life of a human being, and always has been. The fact that it's ultimately her fault she's pregnant (except in the case of rape) has to do with another point entirely. One excuse for abortion that I've seen is that she shouldn't have something she doesn't want forced on her, but then she (again, unless in the case of rape) is really the one who brought it upon herself. That point is meant to devalidate the excuse for it, not sum up my opposition.
Quote:
Thank you for proving one of my earlier points all by yourself. Right from that website:

President Barack Obama on Friday struck down the Bush administration's ban on giving federal money to international groups that perform abortions or provide abortion information — an inflammatory policy that has bounced in and out of law for the past quarter-century.

Therefore, if the government does pass a law giving funds to abortion clinics, the taxpayers have no choice but to give money to it. That's not pro-choice
Irrelevant junk..

Pro-choice actually means the following:

pro-choice (pr-chois)
adj.
Favoring or supporting the legal right of women and girls to choose whether or not to continue a pregnancy to term.


If I think I'm arguing with someone on abortion who thinks Pro-choice means the right of people to have their taxes spent on something or not...I might have to bang my head against something harder than a concrete wall. (Even though its ruining the paint.. my poor wall. ;_;) Even most of the trolls that post in here know what pro-choice means. If you don't, gosh.

Anyway, if we can spend billions and trillions of dollars on pointless wars, as if we can't spare a few million for a better healthcare/medication for at least the third-world countries. :/

Oh and back before 1916, we didn't need to pay Income Taxes, just so you know. The Supreme Court quashed the need for Income Taxes calling it unconstitutional 1-2 times, but the Congress was passed the 16th Amendment anyway.

Quote:
And I've read the act, thank you. :)
...Why do I disbelieve this? But I'll be back after taking some medication for my aching head...maybe.
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Old 02-18-2009, 03:12 PM
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Default Re: The Ethics of Abortion

Quote:
...Third time you're Wunschkinding.

Okay you were talking about "It was the girl's fault she got pregnant". Along that frequency, you can say "The person wasn't careful, that's why he/she got infected". And medication wouldn't save their life either. Unless you're having double standards on the issue?

A] Its the girls fault that she got pregnant, so she should deal with it.

B] Even though its the persons fault he got infected, I wouldn't refuse medication.

Youv'e got a case of acute fail-itis/double standard-itis, and your double standard is again painfully obvious in the next post.
I had a giant block of text here, but I deleted it so I can focus specifically on this post, because I don't feel I've made myself clear.

First of all, let me repeat: My moral opposition to abortion is that it takes a human life. Now, as you defined it (which I don't deny), pro-choice means favoring or supporting the legal right of women and girls to choose whether or not to continue a pregnancy to term. I do not believe that women should have this right, because they have already made the choice to have sex, which they knew full-well could result in a pregnancy. However, this does not mean that teenagers and women should not be given aid. As a matter of fact, I think that as much emotional, physical, and moral support should be given to them as possible. The only method of so-called 'aid' that I would not support is the administration of abortion or contraception such as the morning-after pill, which take the life of the human being growing in the womb. As in the case of the man with AIDS, methods such as counseling and monetary or material support for the pregnant woman will hopefully allow her to better deal with the issue, without endangering the life of her child.

I hope I've explained my position more clearly.
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  #234  
Old 02-18-2009, 07:31 PM
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Default Re: The Ethics of Abortion



Time for the ultimate crime-fighting duo to go to work: Captain Finch and the Invisible Hoop!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobodys_Nerd View Post
I had a giant block of text here, but I deleted it so I can focus specifically on this post, because I don't feel I've made myself clear.

First of all, let me repeat: My moral opposition to abortion is that it takes a human life. Now, as you defined it (which I don't deny), pro-choice means favoring or supporting the legal right of women and girls to choose whether or not to continue a pregnancy to term. I do not believe that women should have this right, because they have already made the choice to have sex, which they knew full-well could result in a pregnancy. However, this does not mean that teenagers and women should not be given aid. As a matter of fact, I think that as much emotional, physical, and moral support should be given to them as possible. The only method of so-called 'aid' that I would not support is the administration of abortion or contraception such as the morning-after pill, which take the life of the human being growing in the womb. As in the case of the man with AIDS, methods such as counseling and monetary or material support for the pregnant woman will hopefully allow her to better deal with the issue, without endangering the life of her child.

I hope I've explained my position more clearly.
Now hold on, but the morning-after pill? That's taking things a little far. The only time I see ethics encroaching on the free choice of the parent is in the case of the aforementioned "partial birth" abortions where a premature baby, essentially (rather than this inanimate-sounding "fetus") is killed off in a horrendous way. The morning-after pill doesn't even compare- it's one of the most viable solutions for accidental pregnancy, as by this time the being hasn't reached even an arguable state of sentience. As a result, I don't think you can call it a "human" life that's been taken- while technically it will be a human, it hasn't developed far enough along for that kind of branding.
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Old 02-18-2009, 08:55 PM
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Default Re: The Ethics of Abortion

Since I haven't really been involved in this thread, I'd just like to point out a few things.

'
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Originally Posted by Snow Fairy Sugar View Post

First you said "Teenagers", now you retracted on that. Oh god, stop doing a Wunschkind plzkthnx.


Wunschkind-ing again. You were talking about the sanctity of life, bla bla which was philosophy...

Look, I know you're obsessed with me, and I can't blame you because I'm a good-lookin' guy, but please calm down a little.


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Originally Posted by Snow Fairy Sugar View Post
Irrelevant junk..
Irrelevant because you can't argue against it? Obama struck down the ban, organizations that offer abortion services are receiving money from the government, and the government gets their money from taxes. Therefore, we have no choice but to financially support abortion through taxes. Is it that hard to understand?
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Old 02-18-2009, 08:57 PM
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Default Re: The Ethics of Abortion

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Originally Posted by Finch View Post

Time for the ultimate crime-fighting duo to go to work: Captain Finch and the Invisible Hoop!


Now hold on, but the morning-after pill? That's taking things a little far. The only time I see ethics encroaching on the free choice of the parent is in the case of the aforementioned "partial birth" abortions where a premature baby, essentially (rather than this inanimate-sounding "fetus") is killed off in a horrendous way. The morning-after pill doesn't even compare- it's one of the most viable solutions for accidental pregnancy, as by this time the being hasn't reached even an arguable state of sentience. As a result, I don't think you can call it a "human" life that's been taken- while technically it will be a human, it hasn't developed far enough along for that kind of branding.
The morning-after pill is known as an abortifacient; in other words, a substance that induces abortion. It's still destroying the unborn infant, whatever stage it's in, but it will have been fertilized by then.
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SotaOMG (10:05:46 PM): i think stunky is sexy
iamnotyou11 (10:05:54 PM): Soda stop being gay
supermonkey07@cox.net (10:06:03 PM): ironic statement?
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  #237  
Old 02-18-2009, 09:17 PM
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Default Re: The Ethics of Abortion

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Originally Posted by Lord Lucario View Post
Irrelevant because you can't argue against it? Obama struck down the ban, organizations that offer abortion services are receiving money from the government, and the government gets their money from taxes. Therefore, we have no choice but to financially support abortion through taxes. Is it that hard to understand?
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Originally Posted by Lord Lucario View Post
Irrelevant.
Lol?

And as for the morning after pill, I don't see how it can be considered abortion, since the fetus was only concived yesterday. A fly has more value than it in my opinion.
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:21 PM
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Default Re: The Ethics of Abortion

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Originally Posted by Nobodys_Nerd View Post
The morning-after pill is known as an abortifacient; in other words, a substance that induces abortion. It's still destroying the unborn infant, whatever stage it's in, but it will have been fertilized by then.
I'm well aware of that, thank you. If you'd taken the time to read then you would have noted that, until the fetus has the ability to think and feel subjectively, it's completely ridiculous to even suggest that its basic rights are comparable to that of its mother. It's as Ranma said- a fly's a better example of a sentient being.
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:30 PM
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Default Re: The Ethics of Abortion

Hi Captain. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobodys_Nerd View Post
-Stuff-
I just want to make myself clear on something.

You seem to have said, if a woman has sex, gets pregnant, she should deal with it. Forget the morals, life and junk for a moment and stop harping about it. Lets talk along the wavelength of the following frequency: -Idiot-woman-her-fault-she-is-pregnant-so-let-her-deal-with-it Hertz or Megahertz.

Now along those same lines, if a person gets AIDS while having sex with a woman. Lets say she becomes pregnant, he gets AIDS. So you're saying along the lines of people who should be punished for mistakes, the woman should not get an abortion, the man should not get treatment.

And again, I repeat: Forget about morality for a moment. Answer in the following frequency I asked. -Punishment-For-Mistakes- Hertz.

Oh and one last thing- if life is so sacred, holy, sanctity, etc etc for you...lets saya guy masturbates. Will you tell him not to throw his sperm away and take care of it? :| They're his kids after all...just not..yeah. XD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Lucario View Post
Since I haven't really been involved in this thread, I'd just like to point out a few things.
Posting in here lwoered your IQ, did it not? Stay out, keep yourself smart. But oh well since I'm so effing bored, I want a laugh or two over you two before I go back to something depressing like studies...
Quote:
Irrelevant because you can't argue against it? Obama struck down the ban, organizations that offer abortion services are receiving money from the government, and the government gets their money from taxes. Therefore, we have no choice but to financially support abortion through taxes. Is it that hard to understand?
...Just shut up about Finance before I bring plaster and tape and glue.

And pro-choice has nothing to do with taxes, so that does NOT constitute a valid part of the argument. How many times do I have to define the point/meaning of pro-choice? -_- And I'm talking to NN here. Even if everyone in the world posted to you fifty times wunsch, you wouldn't get it. Oh and adotpion agencies would request grans from the government anyway- don't forget that.
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  #240  
Old 02-18-2009, 09:37 PM
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Default Re: The Ethics of Abortion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Fairy Sugar View Post

Oh and one last thing- if life is so sacred, holy, sanctity, etc etc for you...lets saya guy masturbates. Will you tell him not to throw his sperm away and take care of it? :| They're his kids after all...just not..yeah. XD
No.

Those sperm have not been fertilized. Plus, who's to say that particular "load" would have worked anyway? ;)
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