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  #181  
Old 08-15-2008, 07:52 AM
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Default Abortion/Adoption-For Or Against?

From a reliable source, I heard McCain will try and pass a law that will make abortions and putting your children up for adoption illegal.

State your opinions.

I'm against it to the point it becomes that not ONE SINGLE PERSON CARES ANYMORE>
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  #182  
Old 08-15-2008, 08:01 AM
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Default Re: Abortion? Right or wrong?

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Originally Posted by Eeveeking929 View Post
Starki, you, my friend, have just been logic reversed. Good point Pokol.
I cancel your Falcon Punch by hiding 4-5 pages back to my original opinion.

Gee, I'm just arguing against for fun. >_____<

I did allow for the abortion being sort of God's will because he anticipated it thing in my post, y'know.

Dammit, I keep forgetting to leave religion out. I quit this facade.
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  #183  
Old 08-15-2008, 08:21 AM
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Default Re: Abortion? Right or wrong?

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Originally Posted by Starkipraggy View Post
And if the woman may die in childbirth:

1. Would you rather save a young life or a middle-aged life? Or rather, would you save the younger or older life?

2. God has plans too. Maybe the mother dying to give birth to the kid makes the kid more treasured by the dad or whatever? Who knows?
1. At least the older life can contribute to society without having to wait for a number of years. The younger one still depends on older people.

2. If the girl is raped and died during childbirth, I don't think the baby would have a caring father. Or any parent for that matter. Because no one can put it up for adoption.

Only women go through childbirth. Therefore, only the women should decide the right or wrong of abortion. Because we men can never walk a mile in their shoes.
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  #184  
Old 08-15-2008, 08:25 AM
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Default Re: Abortion? Right or wrong?

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Originally Posted by Fireball Latios View Post
1. At least the older life can contribute to society without having to wait for a number of years. The younger one still depends on older people.

2. If the girl is raped and died during childbirth, I don't think the baby would have a caring father. Or any parent for that matter. Because no one can put it up for adoption.

Only women go through childbirth. Therefore, only the women should decide the right or wrong of abortion. Because we men can never walk a mile in their shoes.
I agree with #2. But still. We may never know if that one younger human could save our earth from being destroyed by pollution or discover the cure for AIDS. But I'm for it to the point were it will be like "Oh I'll just get another abortion."
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  #185  
Old 08-15-2008, 08:45 AM
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Default Re: Abortion? Right or wrong?

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Originally Posted by Lelouch of the Rebellion View Post
I agree with #2. But still. We may never know if that one younger human could save our earth from being destroyed by pollution or discover the cure for AIDS. But I'm for it to the point were it will be like "Oh I'll just get another abortion."
This argument is so flawed because it automatically assumes that the baby will grow to be some sort of genius with the ability to end disease and make huge contributions to the world as we know it. What if Adolf Hitler's mother had known what he would become, though?

The point is, there's no accurate way to predict the way that a person will develop because external environments can change so drastically over the course of a lifetime.

What we can predict with some degree of accuracy is the symptoms of pregnancy, the financial strain, and the possible results of medical problems (should any occur) that could happen because of and/or during the pregnancy.

We can do this based on data collected, and as such we can figure out what would probably be best for the mother. Whether or not the mother agrees to an abortion doesn't mean that it's not the most beneficial option in many cases.
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  #186  
Old 08-15-2008, 11:50 AM
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Default Re: Abortion? Right or wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire Away View Post
This argument is so flawed because it automatically assumes that the baby will grow to be some sort of genius with the ability to end disease and make huge contributions to the world as we know it. What if Adolf Hitler's mother had known what he would become, though?

The point is, there's no accurate way to predict the way that a person will develop because external environments can change so drastically over the course of a lifetime.

What we can predict with some degree of accuracy is the symptoms of pregnancy, the financial strain, and the possible results of medical problems (should any occur) that could happen because of and/or during the pregnancy.

We can do this based on data collected, and as such we can figure out what would probably be best for the mother. Whether or not the mother agrees to an abortion doesn't mean that it's not the most beneficial option in many cases.
He never assumed that the baby would grow up to achieve great things, he said "We may never know if..." So his argument isn't nearly as flawed as you claim it to be.

However, any argument of "the baby could grow up to cure cancer / aids, save the planet, etc..." as well as the "the baby could be the next Adolf Hitler" arguments are a bit silly to me. You can't predict the future, so don't try to. Just look at the often occurring facts that the mother cannot support the baby, cannot live through the pregnancy, or did not make the choice to become pregnant in the first place.
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  #187  
Old 08-15-2008, 12:19 PM
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Default Re: Abortion? Right or wrong?

Uhh, yeah. I think abortion should be available to women who were raped, or something to that effect, because they did not make the choice to go through the process of babymaking. However, it is my opinion that non-raped women should have the choice to. They decided they wanted to have sex, and I think they should have to live up to what comes through as the "consequences" of it. The only other conditions where I think abortion should be allowed is when:

A) The baby has a high possibility of killing the mother during birth.
B) or when there is a high possibility the baby is going to die shortly after birth.

Also, I've seen some abortion videos through health class in where the baby is cut across the back of the school, as opposed to others being given injections. I think if it is absolutely necessary, abortions should be done the more humane way. If not absolutely necessary to kill the baby, it would be better if the baby would go up for adoption. There isn't a definite chance the kid will be adopted, but anything's better than being dead.

Whoa, my fingers hurt now.
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  #188  
Old 08-15-2008, 12:32 PM
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Default Re: Abortion/Adoption-For Or Against?

Abortion is a VERY diverse topic, which there is a thread to, on the page.

Adoption however, I have a very simple view on.

I myself, am adopted, I come from South Korea and adopting me was honestly, the best thing my biological mother could have done for me. In Korea, there's this stupid law, you have to be married to have children, otherwise the (bastard) child can't do a lot of things, get a good education, get a job, etc. etc. Well, it was like that back in the 1900's (hah, we're in the 2000's now, how cool is that. Like, you make yourself sound OLD by saying you were born in the 1900's!!!! *ahem*) ... So yeah, I was one of those lucky idiots that actually got adopted. So, that's my case.

Adoption is... Kinda alright... In an orphanage, you get a better... Life than you would with a parent who regretted having you, or druggies, or physical abusers, etc. etc. Or on the streets.
I think to make abortion illegal is kinda good, but adoption, I think should be legal. There isn't really anything wrong with it. The child in question could spend their lives in the orphanage, well, until they became of age, and lead a pretty normal life. There's the whole emotional issue, about the parent abandoning you, but I honestly don't find it an issue, unlike the grand, GRAND majority of Asian parents who orphaned their children, I was actually wanted, yay, go me. Yeah, I was loved, but not allowed to be. But yeah, I think I'm in a better place and well, if adoption was kept legal, they could fund the orphanages around the USA, make them better, more... Homey, not some kind of grey dump.

Yeah, so Abortion= Maybe Adoption = KEEP LEGAL.
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  #189  
Old 08-15-2008, 12:43 PM
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Default Re: Abortion/Adoption-For Or Against?

I doubt if McCain will succeed..err, live long enough to pass that bill.

Besides, most Americans + Congressmen have no problem with abortion till at least 24 weeks. So I doubt he would pass that bill, since he cannot really use ethical reasons. He has to give good reasons to pass that bill, none of which he could have.

Putting up kids for adoption..that makes not much sense. If you cannot have a baby, you cannot take care of it- You're too young, or whatever, what will you do with it?
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  #190  
Old 08-15-2008, 02:50 PM
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Default Re: Abortion? Right or wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azumao View Post
He never assumed that the baby would grow up to achieve great things, he said "We may never know if..." So his argument isn't nearly as flawed as you claim it to be.

However, any argument of "the baby could grow up to cure cancer / aids, save the planet, etc..." as well as the "the baby could be the next Adolf Hitler" arguments are a bit silly to me. You can't predict the future, so don't try to. Just look at the often occurring facts that the mother cannot support the baby, cannot live through the pregnancy, or did not make the choice to become pregnant in the first place.
Uh, that was exactly my point. Since there's no way to accurately predict a person's development, it can't be used as an argument. I apologize if my random Hitler reference appeared that way, but that wasn't the intent. I was saying that factors such as "this baby could cure AIDS" can't be accurately predicted, while concluding what option would be most beneficial to the mother can be.

Quote:
Uhh, yeah. I think abortion should be available to women who were raped, or something to that effect, because they did not make the choice to go through the process of babymaking. However, it is my opinion that non-raped women should have the choice to. They decided they wanted to have sex, and I think they should have to live up to what comes through as the "consequences" of it. The only other conditions where I think abortion should be allowed is when:

A) The baby has a high possibility of killing the mother during birth.
B) or when there is a high possibility the baby is going to die shortly after birth.
Unfortunately, this creates a gambit for lower-class women who are unable to take care of a child if and when they get pregnant. It puts them in a position to either birth a child they're unable to support, lie to in order to receive an abortion and face criminal charges (I'm assuming something like this would happen with legal restrictions), or pursue an illegal abortion, which won't be nearly as clean or well-performed. We're talking coat hangers and dining room tables here.
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  #191  
Old 08-16-2008, 01:18 AM
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Default Re: Abortion? Right or wrong?

I simply think that when you can call something "life" is arguable, and if you say that "abortion is killing, as the fetus is life" you could also say that "wearing a condom is killing, as sperm is life". If it wasn't clear, I am pro-choice.
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  #192  
Old 08-16-2008, 02:07 AM
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Default Re: Abortion? Right or wrong?

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Originally Posted by hsb39 View Post
I simply think that when you can call something "life" is arguable, and if you say that "abortion is killing, as the fetus is life" you could also say that "wearing a condom is killing, as sperm is life". If it wasn't clear, I am pro-choice.
Unlike most of the arguments that made me laugh because they were bad, yours made me laugh because it was awesome. Way to turn that argument on its head!
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  #193  
Old 08-16-2008, 02:27 AM
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Default Re: Abortion? Right or wrong?

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Originally Posted by Pokol DaErran View Post
Unlike most of the arguments that made me laugh because they were bad, yours made me laugh because it was awesome. Way to turn that argument on its head!
Yay I did something! Also I think that it is the woman's choice, compared to the woman, the man doesn't have to go through anything. I think that the man has no right to tell the woman what to do either way (because you do get men who want it done because they just "don't wanna get involved with that kind of thing").
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  #194  
Old 08-16-2008, 03:08 AM
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Default Re: Abortion? Right or wrong?

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Originally Posted by hsb39 View Post
Yay I did something! Also I think that it is the woman's choice, compared to the woman, the man doesn't have to go through anything. I think that the man has no right to tell the woman what to do either way (because you do get men who want it done because they just "don't wanna get involved with that kind of thing").
Yeah, if you're that kind of guy, you can just walk away. But if you're a woman, you can't walk away. You can try, but you'll find that the problem comes with you.
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  #195  
Old 08-16-2008, 03:21 AM
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Default Re: Abortion? Right or wrong?

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Originally Posted by Eeveeking929 View Post
Yeah, if you're that kind of guy, you can just walk away. But if you're a woman, you can't walk away. You can try, but you'll find that the problem comes with you.
And I do think that a boyfriend who is against abortion should not be telling the woman what to do, it's not his place.
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