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  #1  
Old 07-11-2008, 12:49 AM
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Default Gay Marriage

This is continuing on from the poll. A moderator said that we should not be discussing the topic there and should go to a discussion thread, so I decided to make one. Before posting, I suggest that you go to the original poll here: http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/foru...36#post2335836

I am for Gay Marriage, I will put a post on the other thread and hopefully we can continue discussing.
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  #2  
Old 07-11-2008, 01:31 AM
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Default Re: Gay Marriage

I'm alright with it. Just stop making a big deal out of it guys.
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Old 07-11-2008, 05:05 AM
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Default Re: Gay Marriage

I'm all for it. Two people, happy, love each other, it's none of our business. Really, it's not unnatural and if you think it is, we can take this outside, but look, they have a different preference to us. A man likes a man, so what? It's just not the usual, it's outside the square, it doesn't matter. It's not a sin, they're people, not faggots (Which is a burning branch), they won't go to hell or whatever 'bad' place your religion made up. They're people, just like you and me and all the rest of humanity.

I don't see why people cause such a fuss. I mean, look at it this way, the majority of the world like sugary things, like chocolate, lollies, etc. But some people don't. So what? REALLY bad example, but that's kinda what it is. The majority of the world likes the opposite sex. A minority of the world likes the same sex. Big whoop.

If you're seriously 'afraid' of gay people, there's something really wrong with you. Yeah, flame me. There is. They're not different. They're people. Get over it world!
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Old 07-11-2008, 05:17 AM
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Default Re: Gay Marriage

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Originally Posted by Stormdancer94 View Post
I'm all for it. Two people, happy, love each other, it's none of our business. Really, it's not unnatural and if you think it is, we can take this outside, but look, they have a different preference to us. A man likes a man, so what? It's just not the usual, it's outside the square, it doesn't matter. It's not a sin, they're people, not faggots (Which is a burning branch), they won't go to hell or whatever 'bad' place your religion made up. They're people, just like you and me and all the rest of humanity.

I don't see why people cause such a fuss. I mean, look at it this way, the majority of the world like sugary things, like chocolate, lollies, etc. But some people don't. So what? REALLY bad example, but that's kinda what it is. The majority of the world likes the opposite sex. A minority of the world likes the same sex. Big whoop.

If you're seriously 'afraid' of gay people, there's something really wrong with you. Yeah, flame me. There is. They're not different. They're people. Get over it world!
kudos to you, my fine sir. that's exactly the same thing i've been trying to say to people for years now, but they still won't listen.
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  #5  
Old 07-11-2008, 07:25 AM
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Default Re: Gay Marriage

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Originally Posted by Firelover View Post
kudos to you, my fine sir. that's exactly the same thing i've been trying to say to people for years now, but they still won't listen.
inb4biblebeaters

Yeah, what? Marriage from its origin was just a skewed form of slavery anyway.
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  #6  
Old 07-11-2008, 07:44 AM
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Default Re: Gay Marriage

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Originally Posted by Firelover View Post
kudos to you, my fine sir. that's exactly the same thing i've been trying to say to people for years now, but they still won't listen.

Let's pretend sir means ma'am for a moment :P

Uhm, yeah. I don't get why people hate gays. I mean, I'm more concerned about that fact that the Pope looks like SATAN. Really. Have you looked at him? And they have a Popemobile. No, I'm not joking. There is a Popemobile. I mean. Really.

People only listen to me because I'm a loud, obnoxious jerk-face. I don't think they really listen though. Only the ones who think they have a chance at debating with me. Debating against religion is always fun.

My father's cousin is gay, well, he's kinda, married, but I dunno if they really are. He's a very nice man and his partner is always dying. Like, on and off, I know it sounds insensitive, but it's been happening ever since my mother knew the man, which was about 20 something years ago.
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Old 07-11-2008, 10:03 AM
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Cool Re: Gay Marriage

I was 100% against gay marriage until I saw Rent.... it will seriously change your life seeing this one gay couple. I promise you!
I'm still against it because I am a Christian and not sure of what the Bible says about it (that's sad if I don't know what the Bible says about it and I'm a Christian!) . But if it's a serious thing, like Collins and Angel (of course it could be a different siduation, Angel is a transexual if you want to put it as that.) in Rent, then I might say yes. But it still depends on what the Bible says. I'm in-between on all of this.
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Old 07-11-2008, 11:29 AM
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Default Re: Gay Marriage

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Originally Posted by Miss_Baltimore_Crabs View Post
I was 100% against gay marriage until I saw Rent.... it will seriously change your life seeing this one gay couple. I promise you!
I'm still against it because I am a Christian and not sure of what the Bible says about it (that's sad if I don't know what the Bible says about it and I'm a Christian!) . But if it's a serious thing, like Collins and Angel (of course it could be a different siduation, Angel is a transexual if you want to put it as that.) in Rent, then I might say yes. But it still depends on what the Bible says. I'm in-between on all of this.


I'm curious. Why do Christians listen to the Bible. I mean, some of it is morally good, but it's just... ... Why should one man who lies with another man be put to death? It's not a sin for hell's sake... I'd like to have a raging debate with the Pope about that... He's in the country next week or something... ... I'll probably get flamed by the world, but I am curious, there is really nothing wrong with it, physically, morally, religiously. Someone was just jealous I reckon.
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Old 07-11-2008, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: Gay Marriage

There were things against sodomy, and effeminate men. Nothing that truly said and meant homosexual. The Bible has nothing substantial against homosexual marriage, as FFK will probably be glad to point out.
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Old 07-11-2008, 09:57 PM
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Default Re: Gay Marriage

Just throwing my two cents in real quick.

Without even going deeply into the religious debates, we can look at it morally and logically and see that it should be allowed. First off, I know that a homosexual has never hurt me, so why should we hurt them? Yes, not allowing them to marry hurts them. Me and you are allowed to find someone we love and have the joy of marriage, and we have no right to take that from someone else. Just because some ego-inflated man decided that heterosexual > homosexual doesn't mean it is, we should go rather with the statement that all men are created equal. George W Bush (as much as I hate him >>) is equal to the men in a gay couple. People get so offended by racism, yet they think that hating someone for their sexual orientation is better? There are a lot worse people in the world than homosexuals, why can't we focus on them?

Overall, heterosexuals don't have the right to choose whether or not homosexuals can marry. Nobody in congress is going to go to Hell if two men across the country get married.
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Old 07-11-2008, 11:14 PM
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Default Re: Gay Marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by skiboydoggy View Post
There were things against sodomy, and effeminate men. Nothing that truly said and meant homosexual. The Bible has nothing substantial against homosexual marriage, as FFK will probably be glad to point out.
Did I hear my name? Hehe. Seems to come up whenever the OT is discussed. -feels special-

Anyway, indeed. There's like 3 different reasonable explanations for why leviticus doesn't really mean all gay sex is bad. xP Since 2 of the 3 are recorded in ancient texts written centuries ago, before 'political correctness', and were passed down through oral tradition (no pun intended) I'm inclined to believe one of them is likely true.

1. The bible uses some metaphors, but when it comes to orders, is generally straight forward. If gay sex were a sin it would simply say "A man should not lie with a man". The "as they would with a woman" part is possibly aimed at a different connotation- men were cheating on their wives with other men. Out of wedlock sex isn't a huge sin in Judaism, but adultery was one of the worst, so of course, a man who married to have kids then had a fling on the side was considered bad. Also, since having kids was expected to 'carry on the tribe', before adoption/artifical insemnation was common, being gay would mean not having kids.

2. Evidence shows that people WERE caught in affairs with other men in the tribes... And weren't put to death for it. Not ONE gay couple was put to death- when the couples were both free men and of age. Men who had sex with boys, as was common with the romans, were exiled. Thus some interpert this as an attempt to make sure the Israelites weren't using slaves or naive boys, instead of finding a woman their own age.

3. No lube. Sand. Little water for bathing. No antibiotics for anything torn/infections from sand in torn places. Yeah, 'nuff said. Granted, women could also have problems with the sand and such, but they needed to have kids for the tribes to survive, so it's more of a calculated risk. Also, since they excrete natural cleaning whatever, whereas guys don't, it was somewhat safer for them to be on the recieving side in sex. So, much like eating pork and shellfish, back then, being gay WAS a bit of a health thing, being in the desert and all. So it can be considered a restriction that was meant to protect the people but is now needless. And note that specifically, while the bible usually includes women in commandments, they're not included in this one, meaning lesbianism is not wrong.

4. I lied! There are 4 reasons. Anyway, since men were considered to be aggressive if not turned to Torah, while women were considered to 'intuitively' be close to God, the Israelites believed that having a family was more important for men than women, so they wouldn't turn that sexual/etc energy into something misguided and bad. Like fighting wars or something instead of focusing on raising kids and learning Torah. Thus men were supposed to follow strict expectations- marry, have at least 2 kids, settle down, study- while women were not considered disastrous if they turned from the 'usual' path. So, being gay was considered a problem, since there'd be no woman to knock some sense into the guy, but being a lesbian was okay. This is pretty typical of Judaism, actually- being Jewish is also passed down only through women. Someone with a Jewish father and goyische mother is not considered to be a Jew, not even half a Jew. Thus the restrictions for men and women are often different.

You'll sometimes see that in modern Judaism, though some are becoming more patriacharl. It depends on the sect, really. I was raised with the idea that if I had kids, I needed to watch 'em for the first four years, and then I could if I wanted leave them to the father to stay home and raise with Torah studies while I went off and had a career/Joined the army/whatever.
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  #12  
Old 07-11-2008, 11:19 PM
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Default Re: Gay Marriage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azumao View Post
Just throwing my two cents in real quick.

Without even going deeply into the religious debates, we can look at it morally and logically and see that it should be allowed. First off, I know that a homosexual has never hurt me, so why should we hurt them? Yes, not allowing them to marry hurts them. Me and you are allowed to find someone we love and have the joy of marriage, and we have no right to take that from someone else. Just because some ego-inflated man decided that heterosexual > homosexual doesn't mean it is, we should go rather with the statement that all men are created equal. George W Bush (as much as I hate him >>) is equal to the men in a gay couple. People get so offended by racism, yet they think that hating someone for their sexual orientation is better? There are a lot worse people in the world than homosexuals, why can't we focus on them?

Overall, heterosexuals don't have the right to choose whether or not homosexuals can marry. Nobody in congress is going to go to Hell if two men across the country get married.
The last line is my main argument: You're not going to hell if two gay people get married, so why the hell do you care? That and the fact that keeping them from getting married isn't going to stop them from being gay. You aren't protecting them, and there's nothing to protect yourself from, meanwhile you are hurting gay people. So why are you doing that?

Edit: FFK, why is it you have a way of making me feel so unbelievably inadequate?
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  #13  
Old 07-12-2008, 12:19 AM
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Default Re: Gay Marriage

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Originally Posted by Eeveeking929 View Post
The last line is my main argument: You're not going to hell if two gay people get married, so why the hell do you care? That and the fact that keeping them from getting married isn't going to stop them from being gay. You aren't protecting them, and there's nothing to protect yourself from, meanwhile you are hurting gay people. So why are you doing that?

Edit: FFK, why is it you have a way of making me feel so unbelievably inadequate?
Aww, hun, you shouldn't! ^^; You're one of the people I enjoy being in debate/discussion threads with, since you usually have intelligent things to say, and you're nice about it. ;) I kind of admire your restraint, since I certainly have far less. You're also concise, while I'm long winded. ;p

I hate when people do crap to others like forbidding them to marry. >_>; Religions should not be insensitive. Hell, there's mormon sects trying to baptize or w/e Jews who died in the holocaust... I mean, wtfh? Where do people come up with these ideas that if they don't make people do what they would, they're going to hell? =\ Christians need to stay out of marriage.
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  #14  
Old 07-12-2008, 12:35 AM
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Default Re: Gay Marriage

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Originally Posted by skiboydoggy View Post
inb4biblebeaters
This immaturity is why I hate participating in these "debates".
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  #15  
Old 07-12-2008, 12:47 AM
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Default Re: Gay Marriage

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This immaturity is why I hate participating in these "debates".
Whereas calling everyone you disagree with a "LIBERAL" is totally grown up? =\ Let's be fair here.
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I have yet to sow green fields, yet to raise a city, yet to plant a grapevine on each chalky hill... There is so much to build and so much to be, and my love is just beginning.
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