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  #16  
Old 06-27-2008, 05:44 AM
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Default Re: Darn Tree Huggers...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormdancer94 View Post
The only thing I wish for is that somehow, we can reverse the effects of Global Warming, which we probably can't, the damage is done. But it can get much worse. That's the problem.
I used to be a firm believer in Global Warming, but did you know the hole in the Ozone Layer actually shrunk? I believe that while we're definitely causing a slight heating effect, the Earth goes through climate cycles on it's own. But that's a whole different topic.

As far as trees go, last time I checked this topic was about offshore drilling. I'm fairly sure that the main concern with that is underwater wildlife, correct me if I'm wrong. As previously stated, I think animals deserve rights just like the rest of us. However, as a last resort, I have nothing against offshore drilling.
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  #17  
Old 06-27-2008, 10:00 PM
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Default Re: Darn Tree Huggers...

well one of the reasons people don't want to drill off in the ocean is yes
1. to prevent further harm from the enviroment

but the main reason is
2. it is unlikely to make the price of oil go down.

when we pay $4.50 at the pump for every gallon of gas it is certainly not because of limited supplies. It is because of three things, OPEC, people still buy gas even though the price is high, and finally oil futures.

First, OPEC sets guidelines on how much oil can be sold at any given time and this is done to minimize competition and increase prices

Part two is that even though gas may be expensive, people still line up at the pump to buy it, i do, you do, everybody does. The fact is gas is necessary in this day and age to get from point a to point b, and through that to fulfill job requirements, school requirements, etc... So until gas stops becoming a necessary commodity then companies can continue driving the price up because people will pay.

Finally is finacial speculation on oil futures. This is also another way that drives up oil prices. People are hedging bets that oil will remain expensive and they invest money into these contracts and the more people that do it, the more expensive oil becomes.

The theory is eventually oil prices will crash but until then, increasing our supply of oil reserves will not decrease prices. Countries in the middle east such as Saudi Arabia have huge stockpiles of crude oil but our prices haven't gone down because of that. It boils down to this the world of economics dictates one mantra, "make money" and oil makes money.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...oryId=91784876
http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/27/mark...tion/index.htm

just two quick links that have a little more info on it.

Last edited by Ulazlo; 06-27-2008 at 10:16 PM.
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  #18  
Old 06-27-2008, 10:18 PM
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Default Re: Darn Tree Huggers...

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Originally Posted by tyvoke View Post
And $50 dollars to fill up, Neo? Where do you live? Because around where I live, the average person pays somewhere from $80-$90 for a full tank. o_0;
In New Jersey, I pay $4.25 per gallon for "Plus" (Which I've been told is virtually no different from "Super" or "Supreme"). As for my car's gas tank, its about 11-12 gallons (I usually fill up when I have only a quarter of a tank remaining), so that roughly amounts to a $50 dollar bill.

Biggest problem with New Jersey is that in order to go anywhere or do anything outside of the house, you need to drive many miles, each and ever time. And since NJ is the state with the highest population density in the country, traffic is horrific state-wide, and often amounts to a lot of stopping, going, braking, and results in a lot of needlessly used-up gas. And we have enough traffic lights to make the entire state look like a Christmas tree.

Still, once people get fed up enough, they will demand something else be done. And the smart person who decides to employ a new energy source effectively will definitely cash in on many people giving up gasoline to switch to something hopefully cheaper and cleaner. And yes, most people, though they would refuse to admit it, would prefer cheaper over cleaner. People may think they alone aren't contributing much to global pollution, but then again, no single drop believes it is responsible for the flood either.

Personally, I wish cars would employ both solar and wind power at the same time. So much wind passes over cars, especially on the highway, and it seems almost wasteful nothing is being done with it. And solar power just seems smarter overall. But, even if both combined are not enough, it would at least be beneficial to have them supplement gasoline, so not as much gas is needed.
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  #19  
Old 06-27-2008, 10:28 PM
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Default Re: Darn Tree Huggers...

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Originally Posted by Stormdancer94 View Post
America can boast having the tallest tree in the world and the oldest, the tallest, General Sherman and the oldest, the Bristlecone Pine. It's selfish people like you that are the largest danger to our Earth, America could do so much by putting resources into Hybrid and electronic cars.
According to several well known scientists, Hybrid's are already obsolete. I get what you're going for, but they're not going to be much more of an improvement, to be honest. A Hybrid's battery is said to last from 5-10 years by the automotive industry, but experts say a more realistic lifetime is anywhere from 4-7 years. With that, the question comes up, "how much will it cost to replace it?" Before taxes, a whopping five grand. I don't know about you, but I don't know many people who are able to drop five grand just for a new battery on a car. Plus, the fact is they still run of Fossil Fuels-- which will always be the problem. Although Hybrids are quite a step, they're not the answer.

And extreme progressions need to be made before we ever have a really excellent electronic car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormdancer94 View Post
There are alternatives, that's what people need to see. If we could all work together, we'd make a difference. Even if you just put a bucket in your shower and used that water to water the plants, there are so many little things.
Human nature says we cannot play well together. :(

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Originally Posted by Stormdancer94 View Post
At least there are hybrid cars entering the industry... Except they're so damn expensive...
Obsolete. :P
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  #20  
Old 06-27-2008, 10:43 PM
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Default Re: Darn Tree Huggers...

If I remember correctly, I've read somewhere that alternatives like ethanol are "too light", and even though they cost cheaper, they'll just burn up like paper, meaning we'll have to buy more. Oh! And the prices would only be slightly cheaper, not a significant drop in the cost.

It's still cleaner, but that'd just about be the only improvement.

Alternatives to alternatives, is what we need, if you ask me - something that can is renewable, 'heavy', and easy to obtain.

I can't cite that, but it's just one of those things I remember hearing in school, or on the news, or Internet, or somehwere. I believe it was in history class when we were discussing our current economy. U.S. history/economics teacher ftw.

@Stormdancer: Hybrid and electronic cars use energy. Where do you think this energy comes from? Also, they're too expensive. Although we deny it, parts of the USA are in the onset of a minor recession.
And, PETA phails.
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  #21  
Old 06-28-2008, 12:30 AM
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Default Re: Darn Tree Huggers...

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Originally Posted by Stormdancer94 View Post
Do you realise how idiotic you are? Do you realise that without trees we'd all burn and die? Do you realise that trees are an extremely limited resource, so what, in Australia, we're paying about $1.75 for a litre of Unleaded Petroleum. Which is (At the last fill up) $90 and a bit. We suffer. But we're not stupid, the consequences of cutting down that many trees just to further your own gains is stupid, those trees take hundreds, thousands of years to grow. America can boast having the tallest tree in the world and the oldest, the tallest, General Sherman and the oldest, the Bristlecone Pine. It's selfish people like you that are the largest danger to our Earth, America could do so much by putting resources into Hybrid and electronic cars.

Now I'm no 'tree hugger' I'm a person with common sense. If you cut down the beautiful forests you fail to see just for oil, you'll never get it back, but that's a useless argument to put to people like you, because you honestly can't see the beauty you live in and would just cut it down.

I'd like to see a president in the USA who sees what most of the world are beginning to see, that there ARE other resources other than oil. Other resources that can save the planet and still give us the luxury that the human race has furthered.

What I've just ranted may seem brutal and people will start flaming me and tell me to go join PETA or something like that. But it's the harsh reality we'll have to face sooner or later. The only thing I wish for is that somehow, we can reverse the effects of Global Warming, which we probably can't, the damage is done. But it can get much worse. That's the problem.


There are alternatives, that's what people need to see. If we could all work together, we'd make a difference. Even if you just put a bucket in your shower and used that water to water the plants, there are so many little things. At least there are hybrid cars entering the industry... Except they're so damn expensive...
A lot of alternate resources are far more expensive than gas and coal. While it is nice to the earth, it would be quite hard on our wallets...

And there is no pure proof that humans are actually causing Global Warming. =/

And if we need to for cutting down trees, we can follow the "Cut down a tree, plant two more." Problem solved.
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  #22  
Old 06-28-2008, 12:34 AM
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Default Re: Darn Tree Huggers...

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Originally Posted by DragoniteMistress View Post
If I remember correctly, I've read somewhere that alternatives like ethanol are "too light", and even though they cost cheaper, they'll just burn up like paper, meaning we'll have to buy more. Oh! And the prices would only be slightly cheaper, not a significant drop in the cost.

It's still cleaner, but that'd just about be the only improvement.

Alternatives to alternatives, is what we need, if you ask me - something that can is renewable, 'heavy', and easy to obtain.

I can't cite that, but it's just one of those things I remember hearing in school, or on the news, or Internet, or somehwere. I believe it was in history class when we were discussing our current economy. U.S. history/economics teacher ftw.

@Stormdancer: Hybrid and electronic cars use energy. Where do you think this energy comes from? Also, they're too expensive. Although we deny it, parts of the USA are in the onset of a minor recession.
And, PETA phails.
actually ethanol made in the U.S. fails in every possible way.

the price is either the same or higher, is more harmful to the enviroment because although it burns cleaner all the processing to turn it into gasoline makes it more damaging than normal gas. Finally the new use of biodiesel has made food prices more expensive so people in impoverished nations such as Bangladesh have had to spend even more of their income on food, and more people are starving.

Biodiesels and Ethanol = utter garbage.
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  #23  
Old 06-28-2008, 12:41 AM
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Default Re: Darn Tree Huggers...

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Originally Posted by KFC View Post
A lot of alternate resources are far more expensive than gas and coal. While it is nice to the earth, it would be quite hard on our wallets...

And there is no pure proof that humans are actually causing Global Warming. =/

And if we need to for cutting down trees, we can follow the "Cut down a tree, plant two more." Problem solved.


money, money money. That's the root of most of the problems around here.

That is a good point, humans might not be causing Global Warming, I had a theory, you know how we had the Ice Age a couple of hundred thousand (More?) years ago, well, what if Global Warming is like... The opposite? If the Ice Age and Global Warming are the Earth's cycle? But yeah. Even if we didn't cause it, we can help to fix it. A bit. ...


The cut down one, plant two more isn't as effective as it sounds, trees take years and years to grow, one pine in Siberia takes a couple of decades to get past the 'sapling' stage. If we keep chopping down all the trees, we'll just end up with a load of saplings that aren't big enough to do anything and no more trees. It sounds effective, but that strategy would only last until all the big trees were chopped.
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  #24  
Old 06-28-2008, 12:45 AM
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Default Re: Darn Tree Huggers...

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Originally Posted by Stormdancer94 View Post
money, money money. That's the root of most of the problems around here.

That is a good point, humans might not be causing Global Warming, I had a theory, you know how we had the Ice Age a couple of hundred thousand (More?) years ago, well, what if Global Warming is like... The opposite? If the Ice Age and Global Warming are the Earth's cycle? But yeah. Even if we didn't cause it, we can help to fix it. A bit. ...


The cut down one, plant two more isn't as effective as it sounds, trees take years and years to grow, one pine in Siberia takes a couple of decades to get past the 'sapling' stage. If we keep chopping down all the trees, we'll just end up with a load of saplings that aren't big enough to do anything and no more trees. It sounds effective, but that strategy would only last until all the big trees were chopped.
And thats why we aren't going to cut down all trees in the world. =P

And yes, the root of most problems is money, because you can't live without it now, and some people are so greedy.

Oh, and we need to get rid of mushrooms. They do the opposite of trees. They breath in oxygen, and let out carbon dioxide. D:<
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  #25  
Old 06-28-2008, 12:46 AM
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Default Re: Darn Tree Huggers...

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Originally Posted by Stormdancer94 View Post
money, money money. That's the root of most of the problems around here.

That is a good point, humans might not be causing Global Warming, I had a theory, you know how we had the Ice Age a couple of hundred thousand (More?) years ago, well, what if Global Warming is like... The opposite? If the Ice Age and Global Warming are the Earth's cycle? But yeah. Even if we didn't cause it, we can help to fix it. A bit. ...


The cut down one, plant two more isn't as effective as it sounds, trees take years and years to grow, one pine in Siberia takes a couple of decades to get past the 'sapling' stage. If we keep chopping down all the trees, we'll just end up with a load of saplings that aren't big enough to do anything and no more trees. It sounds effective, but that strategy would only last until all the big trees were chopped.
It's not like the trees only help the environment once they're fully grown.
Even when they're saplings, they help, since all plants perform photosynthesis at all stages in their life cycle.

Also, let's look at this:

Bad economy, contributes to unemployment, which can lead to a worse economy and more poverty, which will make people desperate, which can lead to a higher crime rate.

A bit like Prohibition, with gasoline being the alcohol.
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  #26  
Old 06-28-2008, 11:14 PM
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Default Re: Darn Tree Huggers...

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Originally Posted by KFC View Post
And thats why we aren't going to cut down all trees in the world. =P

And yes, the root of most problems is money, because you can't live without it now, and some people are so greedy.

Oh, and we need to get rid of mushrooms. They do the opposite of trees. They breath in oxygen, and let out carbon dioxide. D:<


Actually, fungi are good, they process the dead leaf litter and other things, and they are connected to the trees via small filaments underneath the ground, so all the dead stuff they get rid of becomes fertiliser for the trees!

They're very helpful, David Attenbourough's Documentaries are very informing, I suggest you watch some, the ecosystem of a rainforest sounds boring, but it's quite interesting.
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  #27  
Old 07-05-2008, 08:09 AM
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Default Re: Darn Tree Huggers...

All organisms need to live together to prosper and if you drill for oil over there, the marine animals will die and it will cause a disturbance in the ecosystem.
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  #28  
Old 07-13-2008, 04:24 AM
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Default Re: Darn Tree Huggers...

iam kinda a tree huger. and i do live on the atlantic coast lol. but iam no redneck haha. i think all trucks should be banned to save oil. unless you really need a truck. most ppl dont though
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  #29  
Old 07-13-2008, 12:28 PM
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Default Re: Darn Tree Huggers...

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Originally Posted by faceplant527 View Post
iam kinda a tree huger. and i do live on the atlantic coast lol. but iam no redneck haha. i think all trucks should be banned to save oil. unless you really need a truck. most ppl dont though
You... do know thats how we transport all our goods... We don't go down to Florida if we want some of their oranges. We have a truck bring a bunch of them to where you live, so you can buy them.

Without trucks can really only get things made locally. =X
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  #30  
Old 07-13-2008, 01:37 PM
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Default Re: Darn Tree Huggers...

Though that may be true, trees are, and i know this is MAJOR corny, but they are "The lungs of the Earth." And if we cut some of them down people will think it okay and cut more down and that may lead to burning them for energy and that may lead to global warming, and trees were not meant for that, and anyway, if someone cannot afford pertrol[gas] they do not moan about it they look for an alternative, for example riding bikes or walking.
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