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Rate My Team Get your competitive battling team rated here and get help with movesets and battling strategies.


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  #16  
Old 06-29-2008, 11:54 AM
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Default Re: weavile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diarago View Post
Does it really matter, though? Even if the person knows that, you never know when a Mach Punch will come flying at you. Besides, like I said, if you want this as a leader, it has to be a surefire thing, like Zapdos, who can take most hits and live with nearly or over half his HP, Agility/Substitute, and then Pass if necessary, or just perform some good special sweeping.

Also, I find that Weavile is a good switch-in on Gengar if he's going to use Shadow Ball. Weavile's Special Defense is usually over 200, which is good enough to take Gengar's Shadow Ball very well, and the beauty of it is that if Gengar has a Choice Scarf, he'll either have to hit you with a weak hit or suffer one of Weavile's hits if he doesn't have one, which will almost guarantees the switch. Then again, like I said before, they could just switch to his Mach Punch, a factor which resonates my point that SD Weavile is very hard to use. Sure, it is horrendously powerful, but anything with a super-effective priority move will down it pretty badly.
True, but I don't mind taking the risk since it probably won't cost me the match barring losing a mon. :3

Ice Shard over Ice Punch? :OOOOO lolwhut.

I like pairing it with Encore Shuckle sometimes as well. One SD is all most mons need to die. :O

It's your call, but I find battling with Weavile more fun like this. XD
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  #17  
Old 06-29-2008, 07:06 PM
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Default Re: weavile

No SD Weavile doesn't tear through anything. The CBer hardly does. If you try to turn Weavile into an attacker, it turns into something like Electivire - horribly walled by many walls in the game (though not quite as bad is that failure of a pokemon Electivire). Anything that counters the CBer will happily counter the SDer as well, so I don't see how you "lure them in" to get a "kill" when it's just going to get a Forretress thrown in its face anyways.

Focus Sash is not viable. It never will be viable. Especially on a pokemon that takes a lot from all three entry hazards and the most common weather ailment in the game. What is so funny about Weavile is that not only do its counter stop it cold, but then most of them can just Spike or SR the field easily.

Weavile is meant to revenge kill, not be a real sweeper. It can't sweep very well. Otherwise CB Weavile's Ice Punch would score better than a 3HKO on Hippowdon. Seriously, Weavile is just meant to Pursuit random Gengars and Azelfs (and especially Starmie).

SD Weavile is honestly just an inferior version of Lucario's SD set.
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  #18  
Old 06-29-2008, 08:38 PM
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Default Re: weavile

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Originally Posted by Spongebob Number One Fan View Post
No SD Weavile doesn't tear through anything. The CBer hardly does. If you try to turn Weavile into an attacker, it turns into something like Electivire - horribly walled by many walls in the game (though not quite as bad is that failure of a pokemon Electivire). Anything that counters the CBer will happily counter the SDer as well, so I don't see how you "lure them in" to get a "kill" when it's just going to get a Forretress thrown in its face anyways.

Focus Sash is not viable. It never will be viable. Especially on a pokemon that takes a lot from all three entry hazards and the most common weather ailment in the game. What is so funny about Weavile is that not only do its counter stop it cold, but then most of them can just Spike or SR the field easily.

Weavile is meant to revenge kill, not be a real sweeper. It can't sweep very well. Otherwise CB Weavile's Ice Punch would score better than a 3HKO on Hippowdon. Seriously, Weavile is just meant to Pursuit random Gengars and Azelfs (and especially Starmie).

SD Weavile is honestly just an inferior version of Lucario's SD set.
Very true, all of it. And, on that last point, Lucario's much better than Weavile because he's generally the opposite; quad resistances to both of Tyranitar's STAB moves, and an immunity to Sand Stream...plus Extremespeed/Bullet Punch (Hardly ever see the latter, though). If there's any good Swords Dance sweepers, the best, barring Garchomp, would be between Lucario and Gallade in my opinion. Why? Lucario gets a monstrous 638 or 700 Attack power with STAB Close Combat, priority Extremespeed, and Crunch for every Ghost that tries to wall him, and Gallade has excellent type coverage between Night Slash and STAB Psycho Cut and Close Combat, and not to mention the base 115 Special Defense that allows him numerous switches on special hitters.
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  #19  
Old 07-01-2008, 01:17 PM
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Default Re: weavile

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Originally Posted by Spongebob Number One Fan View Post
No SD Weavile doesn't tear through anything. The CBer hardly does. If you try to turn Weavile into an attacker, it turns into something like Electivire - horribly walled by many walls in the game (though not quite as bad is that failure of a pokemon Electivire). Anything that counters the CBer will happily counter the SDer as well, so I don't see how you "lure them in" to get a "kill" when it's just going to get a Forretress thrown in its face anyways.

Focus Sash is not viable. It never will be viable. Especially on a pokemon that takes a lot from all three entry hazards and the most common weather ailment in the game. What is so funny about Weavile is that not only do its counter stop it cold, but then most of them can just Spike or SR the field easily.

Weavile is meant to revenge kill, not be a real sweeper. It can't sweep very well. Otherwise CB Weavile's Ice Punch would score better than a 3HKO on Hippowdon. Seriously, Weavile is just meant to Pursuit random Gengars and Azelfs (and especially Starmie).

SD Weavile is honestly just an inferior version of Lucario's SD set.
I have no idea what this one particular joker's set was running, but I OHKOed his Hippowdon after one SD. :/ The guy forfeited after that. But as I said, that guy was a joker; dunno what the hell he was running.

IMO Weavile = Physical Alakazam. Maybe the typing is crappier, but meh. Sure Zam sits in BL, but people still use him much. Same principle. Maybe I'm headed towards suicide during a match, but isn't Pokemon about having fun? XD I think I will take it off sometime, but try it for the luls anyway.

Most people are all "CB Weavile" and start putting in Heatrans and whatnot. :O I admit Bronzong and Forry wall Weavile up the wazoo; can't deny that. Problems with entry hazards and weather can be solved by being the lead: Tyranitar is scared of BB, Hippowdon is all "lul" and does something, either Roar, SR, or attacks, which shouldn't kill since Hippowdon isn't exactly geared to kill Weavile in a hit (needs the Defense). Ice Punch may not kill either, but meh, you can just switch out right from the start. Abomasnow doesn't like BB. Not sure, never BBed one for the damage, but it should kill if not maim after one SD.

Maybe you're finding my arguments stupid, but I'm just trying to prove that SD Weavile isn't completely and totally fail compared to CB Weavile here. @_@ Of course other mons do the job better; I prefer Scizor for SD sweeping (I don't like Gallade's design, and I prefer Specs Luke), but I don't want people to think SD Weavile is fail when it does have some potential. :/

And maybe it's just me, but for all the little battling I have done on shoddy, I somehow haven't walked into a single weather lead, Forry, or Bronzong. O-o The chances are low like close to impossible, but it's true.
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  #20  
Old 07-01-2008, 05:24 PM
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Default Re: weavile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starkipraggy View Post
I have no idea what this one particular joker's set was running, but I OHKOed his Hippowdon after one SD. :/ The guy forfeited after that. But as I said, that guy was a joker; dunno what the hell he was running.

IMO Weavile = Physical Alakazam. Maybe the typing is crappier, but meh. Sure Zam sits in BL, but people still use him much. Same principle. Maybe I'm headed towards suicide during a match, but isn't Pokemon about having fun? XD I think I will take it off sometime, but try it for the luls anyway.

Most people are all "CB Weavile" and start putting in Heatrans and whatnot. :O I admit Bronzong and Forry wall Weavile up the wazoo; can't deny that. Problems with entry hazards and weather can be solved by being the lead: Tyranitar is scared of BB, Hippowdon is all "lul" and does something, either Roar, SR, or attacks, which shouldn't kill since Hippowdon isn't exactly geared to kill Weavile in a hit (needs the Defense). Ice Punch may not kill either, but meh, you can just switch out right from the start. Abomasnow doesn't like BB. Not sure, never BBed one for the damage, but it should kill if not maim after one SD.

Maybe you're finding my arguments stupid, but I'm just trying to prove that SD Weavile isn't completely and totally fail compared to CB Weavile here. @_@ Of course other mons do the job better; I prefer Scizor for SD sweeping (I don't like Gallade's design, and I prefer Specs Luke), but I don't want people to think SD Weavile is fail when it does have some potential. :/

And maybe it's just me, but for all the little battling I have done on shoddy, I somehow haven't walked into a single weather lead, Forry, or Bronzong. O-o The chances are low like close to impossible, but it's true.
Weavile is definitely powerful, but I think the problem is that because he posed such a threat to so many OUs, other Pokemon became more popular, and new sets were invented for Pokemon weak to him to bypass his Speed...and when that all crowded in on him, he became less powerful than he seemed to be long before. Weavile's problem isn't really the Pokemon of the metagame, but rather what they do to counter him in particular. I could be slightly wrong here, as you mentioned Bronzong and Forretress being great walls to Weavile...but you know, Weavile's part of the reason Breloom and Infernape sometimes have Mach Punch, and one of two particular reasons that Choice Specs Lucario learns Vacuum Wave.
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  #21  
Old 07-02-2008, 10:47 AM
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Default Re: weavile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diarago View Post
Weavile is definitely powerful, but I think the problem is that because he posed such a threat to so many OUs, other Pokemon became more popular, and new sets were invented for Pokemon weak to him to bypass his Speed...and when that all crowded in on him, he became less powerful than he seemed to be long before. Weavile's problem isn't really the Pokemon of the metagame, but rather what they do to counter him in particular. I could be slightly wrong here, as you mentioned Bronzong and Forretress being great walls to Weavile...but you know, Weavile's part of the reason Breloom and Infernape sometimes have Mach Punch, and one of two particular reasons that Choice Specs Lucario learns Vacuum Wave.
Sweeper Weavile has such an impact? :O

I thought lots of Breloom ran Mach Punch in the first place. :O

I'm finding Vacuum Wave pretty obselete on my SpecsLuke, but there's nothing else to put in that slot and priority moves are always useful (for the rare SubRevver), so there you go.

Most Infernapes usually Flamethrower Weavile, and Weavile can't do anything back. Night Slash and Ice Punch are both resisted, and Brick Break won't OHKO if I'm not wrong. :O
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  #22  
Old 07-02-2008, 02:59 PM
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Default Re: weavile

geeez. thanks to every one lol. i used sward dance, cuz no one knows its comming. and because i didnt know that pursuit was an egg move hahahaha. but i do have ice punch and night slash. so thank you. ooo and iam using expert belt but i might switch to life orb or something.
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  #23  
Old 07-03-2008, 03:53 AM
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Default Re: weavile

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Originally Posted by Starkipraggy View Post
I have no idea what this one particular joker's set was running, but I OHKOed his Hippowdon after one SD. :/ The guy forfeited after that. But as I said, that guy was a joker; dunno what the hell he was running.

lol I love how a max Atk (yes that means Adamant nature) LO Ice Punch after a SD does 88% MAX to Hippowdon (75% minimum. Not to mention Hippowdon isn't a good switch on Weavile at all lol. Nice try, but I'm not quite that stupid.

IMO Weavile = Physical Alakazam. Maybe the typing is crappier, but meh. Sure Zam sits in BL, but people still use him much. Same principle. Maybe I'm headed towards suicide during a match, but isn't Pokemon about having fun? XD I think I will take it off sometime, but try it for the luls anyway.

Terrible comparison. Alakazam's counters all fear something it can do to them one way or another. Specs Focus Blast or Trick scares standard special walls and Alakazam's STAB is coming off better Atk (or SAtk in this case) and better base power than anything Weavile has. Alakazam has better coverage on its moves (and power too) and is quite unpredictable. They really aren't similar at all besides maybe stats (and that's only a little bit), and stats don't always mean a whole lot.

Most people are all "CB Weavile" and start putting in Heatrans and whatnot. :O I admit Bronzong and Forry wall Weavile up the wazoo; can't deny that. Problems with entry hazards and weather can be solved by being the lead: Tyranitar is scared of BB, Hippowdon is all "lul" and does something, either Roar, SR, or attacks, which shouldn't kill since Hippowdon isn't exactly geared to kill Weavile in a hit (needs the Defense). Ice Punch may not kill either, but meh, you can just switch out right from the start. Abomasnow doesn't like BB. Not sure, never BBed one for the damage, but it should kill if not maim after one SD.

Not really. Tyranitar used switch out! Oh, now you're stuck with weather. Heck, even Hippowdon can set up SR and can easily survive any of Weavile's hits (CB Ice Punch barely 2HKOs, and Weavile doesn't even have room for that since it needs Night Slash for Psychics). Bronzong is the most common lead in OUs and it walls Weavile and sets up rocks on you and everything. Weavile isn't a good lead anyways and it won't be stopping auto-weather.

BTW why are you worried about Abomasnow when Weavile is an ice type?


Maybe you're finding my arguments stupid, but I'm just trying to prove that SD Weavile isn't completely and totally fail compared to CB Weavile here. @_@ Of course other mons do the job better; I prefer Scizor for SD sweeping (I don't like Gallade's design, and I prefer Specs Luke), but I don't want people to think SD Weavile is fail when it does have some potential. :/

That's kind of like using Feraligatr instead of Gyarados as your DDer. Yeah Feraligatr's DD set is decent in OUs and it's a cool pokemon, but Gyarados totally outclasses it making DD Gatr something you won't find on any serious OU team. Same with SD Weavile, who is outclassed by a ton of Swords Dancers. We have Garchomp, Heracorss, Lucario, Gallade...there isn't a good reason to use SD Weavile.

And maybe it's just me, but for all the little battling I have done on shoddy, I somehow haven't walked into a single weather lead, Forry, or Bronzong. O-o The chances are low like close to impossible, but it's true.

Usage statistics make that irrelevant, whether or not it's true.
lol @ OHKOing Hippowdon, seeing as it's impossible without it having taken damage already (and that's fail Adamant Weavile, when it needs Jolly to outspeed things for kills). I'm not that stupid you know ;/

BTW Mach Punch is only common on those fail Anti-lead Breloom, which totally defeats the purpose of using Breloom. Either way, SD Weavile is barely viable at all. It only is a little bit because it is unique from other SDers, as far as what it can kill and all that jazz. In general, almost every other OU Swords Dancer outclasses it.

The only reason to use Weavile in the first place is to revenge kill, and the CB set does that best. It's that simple.

I quote, "Of course other mons do the job better..." Stop yourself right there. If other pokemon do that job better, why would you use Weavile for that job? That's like having an electrician to do your plumbing instead of an actual plumber.

SD Weavile has potential, the problem is that it will never fill it. Its STABs are weak and it is walled by some of the most common pokemon around. Not a good combination. Its movepool isn't exactly Deoxys-like either.
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  #24  
Old 07-04-2008, 12:29 PM
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Default Re: weavile

Only a couple of points I want to bring to the table:

Does Min HP/Def Hippowdon doesn't get OHKOed by Jolly Weavile SD Ice Punch? Because I really OHKOed that Hippowdon with one Ice Punch without crit after one SD. Honest to God.

Considering most Garchomp work with either Dragon Claw (80BP) or Earthquake (100) and Ice Punch runs at 85 BP and Night Slash at 70 BP with 25% at crit, Weavile's STABs aren't too shabby themselves, except the type combination gets screwed by Bronzong/Forry.

Weather isn't the problem. Swords Dance is the priority here. The point is that Focus Sash allows an SD or an extra life against something that would obliterate Weavile, and the weather leads all run away or can't OHKO Weavile thus giving it one SD. That's it. That's all there is to it.

Novelty set has fun powers. :3
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Old 07-04-2008, 03:27 PM
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Default Re: weavile

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Originally Posted by Starkipraggy View Post
Only a couple of points I want to bring to the table:

Does Min HP/Def Hippowdon doesn't get OHKOed by Jolly Weavile SD Ice Punch? Because I really OHKOed that Hippowdon with one Ice Punch without crit after one SD. Honest to God.

Considering most Garchomp work with either Dragon Claw (80BP) or Earthquake (100) and Ice Punch runs at 85 BP and Night Slash at 70 BP with 25% at crit, Weavile's STABs aren't too shabby themselves, except the type combination gets screwed by Bronzong/Forry.

Weather isn't the problem. Swords Dance is the priority here. The point is that Focus Sash allows an SD or an extra life against something that would obliterate Weavile, and the weather leads all run away or can't OHKO Weavile thus giving it one SD. That's it. That's all there is to it.

Novelty set has fun powers. :3
Well yes, you can OHKO someone who has EV'd their Hippowdon horribly. :x

Ice Punch has 75 BP.

What does it matter if you get an SD in? With the weather lead out, your Sash has been ruined, and I'm going to switch to something that either

Walls Weavile into infinity

or

Outspeeds and KOs

In either case, you're going down. IMO the fact that you're using SD Weavile as a lead is the real trouble here, as most SD sweepers are designed to sweep late game when any counters have been defeated or are weakened enough. At the beginning of the match, your opponent has a bunch of 100% Pokemon that they can send out to deal with you.

Just my 4 half cents
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