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  #1  
Old 06-21-2008, 01:55 PM
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Default Do you think the Iraq War could be solved without all this fighting?

I come to you all with this interesting question, do you think that the Iraq War could be solved without all the wars and fighting and bombing and such?

Honestly, if everyone kept a level head and stopped trying to kill everyone in the name of their 'god' and whatnot, really, I'd think a deal could be exacted?

America could take what they wanted, with a good few limitations, and would give something of equal or more value in return, more because it's not their own soil they're taking things from?

Think about it, if America could own the rights to the oil in Iraq and such and the Taliban stopped being such arses (Really, they are.) you might think some kind of halfway deal could be exacted.

I know that there'd be myriad legal complications and many thousands of people would be unhappy, but a war just makes everyone unhappy.

*Braces self for inevitable flaming*


But then again, oil isn't the only thing America wants, is it? I'm not learned on this subject, I'm a Neutralist, I honestly haven't studied this at all. I don't protest ignorance, I positively radiate it :P
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Old 06-21-2008, 05:38 PM
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Default Re: Do you think the Iraq War could be solved without all this fighting?

The US shouldn't take/even need that oil. Hydrogen cars are in late stage testing in Cali, and seem to work well. They're cleaner (Waste products = heat and WATER), and hydrogen's in no short supply, it's the world's most abundant element.

Anyway, the problem is people won't just stop killing in the name of their allah-dude-thingy. =\ If it was that simple there wouldn't BE a war.
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Old 06-21-2008, 06:01 PM
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Default Re: Do you think the Iraq War could be solved without all this fighting?

I just don't understand why there has to be all this fighting.
I do know that the US think they have weapons and stuff, but I don't get why it comes down to fighting.
If they did have weapons, wouldn't they have used them by now?
But yeah, I think it could be solved without fighting.
The presidents should both sign a peace treaty or whatever of the sort, and go back home. Why has it come this?
I dunno.



Lol I just sounded like I actully knew what I was talking about!
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  #4  
Old 06-21-2008, 11:27 PM
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Default Re: Do you think the Iraq War could be solved without all this fighting?

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Originally Posted by FireflyK View Post
The US shouldn't take/even need that oil. Hydrogen cars are in late stage testing in Cali, and seem to work well. They're cleaner (Waste products = heat and WATER), and hydrogen's in no short supply, it's the world's most abundant element.

Anyway, the problem is people won't just stop killing in the name of their allah-dude-thingy. =\ If it was that simple there wouldn't BE a war.


Good point, but you have to admit, to make these products, they do need a little bit of crude oil and such to run the machinery to make them and such? Or something stupid like that.

If people weren't killing in the name of their 'god' I don't think that'd quell the whole war issue, I think the Iraqi would still probably uprise if the Americans took stuff from their lands, I mean, I'd honestly hate thousands of foreign workers right on your doorstep and tearing up the land, environmental and patriotic reasons right there.

Religion causes so much strife.
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Old 06-22-2008, 03:17 AM
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Default Re: Do you think the Iraq War could be solved without all this fighting?

i dont think we should be in iraq. i cant even spell it lol. but anyway i wanna find osama but hes prolly already dead. so i think we need a democratic president to get us out. and we might end up going to war with iran because of oil and we might have a draft. that would suck !!!!!!!!!
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Old 06-22-2008, 03:25 AM
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Default Re: Do you think the Iraq War could be solved without all this fighting?

I myself do not know a whole lot about the war in Iraq, except that I know we are there to protect the people there from the suicide bombers and such.

Anyways, if we pull out now, or anytime soon, Al-Quida (sp?) and other terrorists are going to think that the US is weak, and then... Well, suicide bombers come into the U.S. America is NOT a fortress, people. No matter what you think. It is very scary as to how easy it is to get here. Before we know it, millions will be dead. I will be one of the first ten or so million to go, because I live very close to the D.C. area. Bye-bye, world, if Hilary or Obama becomes president. Because, if either of them do... We will be screwed as a nation. We're either going to be dead or to the mercy of the communists in China. xP

Either way, we will be forced into something.


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Old 06-22-2008, 04:11 AM
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Default Re: Do you think the Iraq War could be solved without all this fighting?

The problem is that the people who make up Al-Qaeda all think they'll get something great out of killing infidels.(Anyone who doesn't follow the Islamic religion)

Also, as Geoffreys-Darkness pointed out, pulling out would send the wrong message to the terrorists. They'd get the idea that they could beat us, and they'd move the attack front to US soil. Now, I don't know about you, but I think we've had enough "9-11's" to be getting on with.

Now, I don't approve of starting wars simply to gain something, but look at it this way: If you and I are standing nose to nose and are inevitably going to come to blows, am I going to wait for you to strike first? No. That was the US's big mistake; we should have been over there years ago. That way, we might've been able to finish this thing before it even got started.
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Old 06-22-2008, 04:20 AM
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Default Re: Do you think the Iraq War could be solved without all this fighting?

Yeah. If you put down the guns, I bet one would solve a whole lotta sh*t.
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Old 06-22-2008, 04:40 AM
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Default Re: Do you think the Iraq War could be solved without all this fighting?

... Urgh, so many people kill in the names of their 'gods', utter bull***t. The Taliban and Al-Qaeda and Bin Laden pretty much killed in the name of some fancy-schmancy god or religion, I mean no offense to the Islamic Religion. (Not sure about Bin Laden?)

Did Bin Laden hang that day or not? I remember seeing some dodgy photos on the news about a hanging, but I don't think it was ever TRULY confirmed that it was Osama was it?

If only we could make artificial oil, or find an infinite resource that could replace it... Like... Air... We can't run out of that... Can we? I mean, if we didn't cut down trees and use so much machinery, is there a way we could run out of Oxygen on Earth? Artificial oil... Possible or not?
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Old 06-22-2008, 05:06 AM
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Default Re: Do you think the Iraq War could be solved without all this fighting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormdancer94 View Post
Good point, but you have to admit, to make these products, they do need a little bit of crude oil and such to run the machinery to make them and such? Or something stupid like that.

If people weren't killing in the name of their 'god' I don't think that'd quell the whole war issue, I think the Iraqi would still probably uprise if the Americans took stuff from their lands, I mean, I'd honestly hate thousands of foreign workers right on your doorstep and tearing up the land, environmental and patriotic reasons right there.

Religion causes so much strife.
Not to mention... There have been mass graves of Kurds and other political/ethnic/religious people who are disliked by the Iraqi government. =\ That s*** is not right.

=\ ANd I kinda resent that religion remark. MY religion doesn't go around murdering people, and we're a major part of donations to charity, so I'd say we do a lot of good for the world.


Quote:
except that I know we are there to protect the people there from the suicide bombers and such.
I wish. Israel is bombed at least once every week, has been for years, and they're our ALLY, yet we do nothing!


Quote:
The problem is that the people who make up Al-Qaeda all think they'll get something great out of killing infidels.(Anyone who doesn't follow the Islamic religion)
Or those who follow a different version. The SHi'ite and Sunni muslims have been fighting each other for years over who's religion is the One True Way (Tm). =\

However, not every muslim's involved in the killing. Plenty of them are good, peaceful people. It's just their leaders are not.
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Old 06-22-2008, 05:15 AM
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Default Re: Do you think the Iraq War could be solved without all this fighting?

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Originally Posted by FireflyK View Post
However, not every muslim's involved in the killing. Plenty of them are good, peaceful people. It's just their leaders are not.
This is true, but then technically they're not following the Quran. It basically says that infidels either need to convert or die. Actually, I'm not even sure if it says to give them the chance to convert, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
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Old 06-22-2008, 05:24 AM
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Default Re: Do you think the Iraq War could be solved without all this fighting?

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Originally Posted by tyvoke View Post
This is true, but then technically they're not following the Quran. It basically says that infidels either need to convert or die. Actually, I'm not even sure if it says to give them the chance to convert, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
In case ya hadn't noticed, Christianity says the same thing. =\ Catholic mass even includes a prayer for the 'Perfidious' Jews to see the error of their ways and convert, so they don't all go to hell and burn. Not to mention that unless you believe the New Testament was altered, then there's all those quotes about how the Jews are the devil and against the lord to explain. I've been given some pretty dirty looks from a couple muslims, but they're not the ones who actually come after us or mess up our homes. That's christians.
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Old 06-22-2008, 06:54 AM
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Default Re: Do you think the Iraq War could be solved without all this fighting?

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Originally Posted by FireflyK View Post
In case ya hadn't noticed, Christianity says the same thing. =\ Catholic mass even includes a prayer for the 'Perfidious' Jews to see the error of their ways and convert, so they don't all go to hell and burn. Not to mention that unless you believe the New Testament was altered, then there's all those quotes about how the Jews are the devil and against the lord to explain. I've been given some pretty dirty looks from a couple muslims, but they're not the ones who actually come after us or mess up our homes. That's christians.
The difference is that the Bible doesn't advise Christians to go out and start randomly killing people who don't believe what they do. At least not any Bible I've ever read... o_0
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Old 06-22-2008, 07:18 AM
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Default Re: Do you think the Iraq War could be solved without all this fighting?

War solves nothing, for it is a dangerous thing. You may win, but they might want to get revenge, then it goes on like that. We want peace. When you go out to the country, you'll find friendly folks who help each other out, not shooting randomn neighboors with rifles and machine guns.
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Old 06-22-2008, 04:27 PM
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Default Re: Do you think the Iraq War could be solved without all this fighting?

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Originally Posted by tyvoke View Post
The difference is that the Bible doesn't advise Christians to go out and start randomly killing people who don't believe what they do. At least not any Bible I've ever read... o_0
Then you haven't been reading closely, the bible advocates for the killing of homosexuals, among other things, and any people who oppose God's way.

Hell, even lots of old prayers based on the bible openly call for conversion or shunning/expulsion of non-christians. The catholic missal, from latin mass, includes lines about praying that the 'perfidious Jews' will see the error of their ways and convert.


Even the popes often openly preach passages from the bible supporting murder or expulsion of non-christians:

Pope Clement VIII: “The Bible itself says that the Jews are an accursed people.”

And he's not misinterperting. This is straight from the christian new testament.
“The Jews who both killed the Lord JESUS, and the prophets, and have persecuted us, and please not God, and are enemies to all men. [...] To fill up their sins always: for the wrath of God is come upon them to the end.” (I Thessalonians 2)

Pope Leo VII: “Let the Gospel be preached unto them and, if they remain obstinate, let them be expelled.”



Anyone who didn't convert was to be expelled from the land, or if they didn't leave on time, enslaved:

Pope Saint Pius V: “The Jewish people fell from the heights because of their faithlessness and condemned their Redeemer to a shameful death. Their godlessness has assumed such forms that, for the salvation of our own people, it becomes necessary to prevent their disease. Besides usury, through which Jews everywhere have sucked dry the property of impoverished Christians, they are accomplices of thieves and robbers; and the most damaging aspect of the matter is that they allure the unsuspecting through magical incantations, superstition, and witchcraft to the Synagogue of Satan and boast of being able to predict the future. We have carefully investigated how this revolting sect abuses the name of Christ and how harmful they are to those whose life is threatened by their deceit. On account of these and other serious matters, and because of the gravity of their crimes which increase day to day more and more, We order that, within 90 days, all Jews in our entire earthly realm of justice - in all towns, districts, and places - must depart these regions. After this time limit shall all at the present or in the future, who dwell or wander into that city or other already mentioned, be affected, their property confiscated and handed over to the Siscus, and they shall becomes slaves of the Roman Church, live in perpetual servitude and the Roman Church shall have the same rights over them as the remaining [worldly] lords over slaves and property.” (Hebraeorum Gens)

Pope Innocent IV: “We who long with all our hearts for the salvation of souls, grant you full authority by these present letters to banish the Jews, either in your own person or through the agency of others, especially since, as we have been informed, they do not abide by the regulations drawn up for them by this Holy See.” (To the King of France)

Pope Innocent III: “The Jews, by their own guilt, are consigned to perpetual servitude because they crucified the Lord.” (To the Archbishops of Sens and Paris)

Pope Gregory IX: “They ought to know the yoke of perpetual enslavement because of their guilt. See to it that the perfidious Jews never in the future become insolent, but that they always suffer publicly the shame of their sin in servile fear.” (Epistle to the Hierarchy of Germany)




And in addition to killing or banishing people, they also banned them from holding political offices:
Pope Innocent III at the Fourth Ecumenical Lateran Council: “We therefore renew in this canon, on account of the boldness of the offenders, what the Council of Toledo providently decreed in this matter: we forbid Jews to be appointed to public offices


And didn't accept their testimonies in court:
Pope Alexander III at the Third Lateran Ecumenical Council: “We declare that the evidence of Christians is to be accepted against Jews in every case, since Jews employ their own witnesses against Christians - and that those who prefer Jews to Christians in this matter are to lie under anathema, since Jews ought to be slaves to Christians.” (Canon 26)




Not that they particularly WANT them to convert, anyway:
Pope Innocent III: “When Jews are admitted out of pity into familiar intercourse with Christians, they repay their hosts, according to the popular proverb, after the fashion of the rat hidden in the sack, or the snake in the bosom, or of the burning brand in one’s lap.”

Pope Stephen III: “With great sorrow and mortal anxiety, We have heard that the Jews have in a Christian land the same rights as Christians, that Christian men and women live under the same roof with these traitors and defile their souls day and night with blasphemies.” (Epistle to the Bishop of Norbonne)

Pope Gregory IX: “We order all our brother bishops absolutely to suppress the blasphemy of Jews in your dioceses, churches, and communities, so that they do not dare raise their necks, bent under eternal slavery, to revile the Redeemer.”


Pope Clement VIII: “All the world suffers from the usury of the Jews, their monopolies and deceit. They have brought many unfortunate people into a state of poverty, especially the farmers, working class people and the very poor. […] Their ethical and moral doctrines as well as their deeds rightly deserve to be exposed to criticism in whatever country they happen to live.”




In fact, the popes and the bible are where most of hitler's ideas came from:
Pope Eugene IV: “We decree and order that from now on, and for all time […] All and every single Jew, of whatever sex and age, must everywhere wear the distinctive dress and known marks by which they can be evidently distinguished from Christians.

Pope Saint Pius V: “In order to make an end of all doubt concerning the colour of the cap and the sign of the women, we declare that the colour must be yellow.” (Romanus Pontifex)

Pope Innocent IV: “And that you [King Saint Louis IX] order both the aforesaid abusive books [The Talmud] condemned by the same doctors and generally all the books with their glosses which were examined and condemned by them to be burned by fire wherever they can be found throughout your entire kingdom, strictly forbidding that Jews henceforth have Christian nurses or servants, that the sons of a free woman may not serve the sons of a bondwoman, but as slaves condemned by the Lord, whose death they wickedly plotted, they at least outwardly recognize themselves as slaves of those whom the death of Christ made free and themselves slaves. So we may commend the zeal of your sincerity in the Lord with due praises.” (The Wicked Perfidy of the Jews)


Although even hitler didn't believe the Jews were the anti christ:
Pope Saint Gregory I: “It has come to my ears that certain men of perverse spirit have sown among you some things that are wrong and opposed to the holy faith, so as to forbid any work being done on the Sabbath day. What else can I call these but preachers of Antichrist, who, when he comes, will cause the Sabbath day as well as the Lord’s day to be kept free from all work. For, because he pretends to die and rise again, he wishes the Lord’s day to be had in reverence; and, because he compels the people to judaize that he may bring back the outward rite of the law, and subject the perfidy of the Jews to himself, he wishes the Sabbath to be observed.” (Epistles, Book XIII:1)


See also: Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Expulsion of Jews from Carthage in 250, Alexandria in 415, France in 554, France again in 561, Visigoth spain in 612, Visigoth empire in 642, Italy in 855, Sens in 876, Mayence in 1012, France in 1181, England in 1920, France in 1306, Switzerland in 1348, Hielbronn Germany in 1349, Hungary in 1349, Strasbourg in 1388, Germany in 1394, France in 1394, Austria in 1422, Fribourg and Zurich in 1424, Cologne in 1426, Savory in 1432, Mainz in 1438, Augsburg in 1439, Bavaria in 1446, Franconis in 1453,Breslau in 1453, Wurzburg in 1454, Vincenza in 1485, Spain in 1492, Lithuania in 1495, Portugal in 1497, Germany in 1499, Strasbourg in 1514, Regensburg in 1519, Naples in 1540, Bohemia in 1542, Genoa in 1550, Bavaria in 1551, Pesaro in 1555, Austra in 1559, Prague in 1561... The list goes on.

Then there's the execution of heretics, with all sorts of torture involved, the treatment of Marranos/Conversos in Spain, 'Heresy Hunters', burning at the stake, false accusations of 'heresy' so the church would aquire the property of the executed people, Blood Libel, tests for the 'devil's spot' (a spot which felt no pain) tested by stabbing stripped prisoners repeatedly)....
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I have yet to sow green fields, yet to raise a city, yet to plant a grapevine on each chalky hill... There is so much to build and so much to be, and my love is just beginning.

Last edited by FireflyK; 06-22-2008 at 04:54 PM.
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