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  #151  
Old 12-04-2007, 05:00 AM
Kevin Garrett Offline
 
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Default Re: mmm... feedback

The Hax Clause is necessary to have. Especially since it prohibits the use of possibly game changing items like Quick Claw, Focus Band, ect. I'm writing a detailed guide that is featuring the same rules and guidelines that have been widely agreed on at many forums, including here. I can post it here if you would like.
  #152  
Old 12-04-2007, 08:03 AM
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Default Re: mmm... feedback

While were at it, why not throw in the item clause? Meaning no double items. I do believe that the JAA Tournament used this as well.
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  #153  
Old 12-04-2007, 04:07 PM
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Default Re: mmm... feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teo View Post
While were at it, why not throw in the item clause? Meaning no double items. I do believe that the JAA Tournament used this as well.
I don't think that was ever really a problem, though. So what if half of the Pokemon have Leftovers?
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  #154  
Old 12-04-2007, 05:22 PM
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Default Re: mmm... feedback

I think we should have a monthly or yearly tournament to see who is the best battler in PE2K
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  #155  
Old 12-04-2007, 07:12 PM
Kevin Garrett Offline
 
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Default Re: mmm... feedback

The item clause opposed by the majority of players out there, including myself. Choice items and the Life Orb can be abused, but they are selfdestructive. Leftovers is the biggest reason as to why the item clause isn't used. It is considered to be the average or standard item for a Pokemon not based around another item.
  #156  
Old 12-04-2007, 07:17 PM
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Default Re: mmm... feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Garrett View Post
The item clause opposed by the majority of players out there, including myself. Choice items and the Life Orb can be abused, but they are selfdestructive. Leftovers is the biggest reason as to why the item clause isn't used. It is considered to be the average or standard item for a Pokemon not based around another item.
I agree with KG, there shouldnt be an ITEM CLAUSE (note: but still HAX ITEM clause).
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  #157  
Old 12-04-2007, 08:04 PM
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Default Re: mmm... feedback

Oh? Well you guys sure love to throw all these clauses in. Why not include the item clause?

Besides, I do believe it to be unfair and does make the game unbalanced and it is a "No skill strategy" as you like to call things such as the Evasion, OHKO, and Sleep Clauses. Also, if I remember correctly. In JAA, they had an item clause, so why not apply that here? On top of that, there are still other items that do the exact same thing as leftovers. This also does prevent game breaking things such as seeing Focus Sash on every other pokemon(Is this not the same as the Hax items? Allowing more luck to give a critical hit or flinch a poke? Even though it can be controlled?). Thus allowing the game to rely on "Strategy" and "Skill" as you all like to say yes?

So my point is, if you all have so much "Skill" and awesome "Strategies" why not employ the item clause, it honestly shouldn't affect your game play what so ever? Besides, it does make things more fair does it not?
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  #158  
Old 12-04-2007, 08:21 PM
Kevin Garrett Offline
 
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Default Re: mmm... feedback

Here's the thing with the Focus Sash, it is essentially a waste. I'd say about 90%+ players use a team that has access to entry hazards and/or weather conditions. This has made Focus Sash a useful item, with the exception of a few Pokemon that have a long list of weaknesses and poor defenses. It boils down to Leftovers being the only item that is abused.

This topic has been debated on several forums and each one of them has concluded that the item clause does not need to be in effect because good teams do not require you to use the same item, except Leftovers, which is the standard item for a Pokemon that does not need a specific item to function.

As for other items related to Leftovers, there really is no comparison. Yes, Black Sludge is the equivalent to Leftovers for Poison-type Pokemon and Shell Bell recovers your HP when you inflict damage, ect. However, these don't apply to every Pokemon in the metagame. How do you decide which variation of items you apply to your Pokemon if you're using Blissey and Dusknoir? Niether of them qualify for the Leftover-related items. Not everyone runs those two on the same team, but there are many more examples of situations like that.
  #159  
Old 12-04-2007, 08:54 PM
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Default Re: mmm... feedback

Using more than one leftovers on a team can be considered "Cheap" as it were. Due to the fact it gives an unfair advantage in stay power. Yeah, we would all like our pokemon to stay longer, but that's not always possible. It's no different than double team if you want to look at it this way. Double Team raises your evasiveness, right? Allowing you to stay longer. taking next to no damage at all. Leftovers allows you to take hits, but recovers life at the end of every turn and, you're still able to attack? Wouldn't you want to restrict something like that? While with double team you'd be sacrificing a move slot and the time it takes to set up. Let alone if you aren't KO'd before you get 3 under your belt. Yet once set up, It has the power of staying a good long while just like any wall that is carrying lefties. Yes, it is a damn good item that can be thrown on most pokemon. No matter what they are trying to go for. Thus, its good to restrict it to one making things even and fair. Its just like employing the evasion or sleep clause, because it just makes things too unbalanced.
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  #160  
Old 12-04-2007, 08:59 PM
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Default Re: mmm... feedback

You can't even compare Double Team and Minimize to Leftovers. Double Team turns the game into a game of chance. There is a possibility that you will never be able to hit the Pokemon you are trying to attack because it is based on a percentage. Leftovers is a guarentee. True, it does keep your Pokemon in the battle longer. What's wrong with that? In all of the past generations, no one ever considered the item clause to be an official [standard] rule. Why change that now?

Also, your comment before about JAA does not fit to this kind of battling. JAA is 3-on-3 for starters, which alters play significantly. If I remember correctly, everyone was using ubers at those so called "official" tournaments. Does that mean that we should start using ubers now? No.
  #161  
Old 12-04-2007, 09:35 PM
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Default Re: mmm... feedback

Look at it this way. You put on a Hax item clause, due to the fact they are based off low percentages making them pure chance that they work. They can't be controlled at all, yet when they work it makes them too good, thus them being banned from "Standard Play?" While leftovers does gain back HP every turn and is a controlled item. Wouldn't you want to put a restriction on it, just because it is too good!? If you compare them both, leftovers makes the game more unbalanced because it can be controlled. You know for a fact it will give you HP back at every turn. You don't know when quick claw will activate. You don't know when focus band is going to work. It's a risk some one takes when the run the item. The fact you are able to have control over something as gaining life back each turn is far more threatening than a "Luck" item.

So why not have an item clause?
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  #162  
Old 12-04-2007, 09:44 PM
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Default Re: mmm... feedback

Simple - because Leftovers isn't uber. On average, it only restored 16-20 HP each turn (if the battle is being played at Lv. 100). As long as you have a competant Pokemon out that can attack the foe's Pokemon, it doesn't make much of a difference. The only time Leftovers saves a Pokemon is when it takes multiple hits to take it down. Here's an example: Infernape uses Flare Blitz on Skarmory, which does a different amount of damage depending upon the nature, EVs, and IVs of each Pokemon. Let's say it can do 60%-100%. Leftovers will not save Skarmory from that hit. If it was previously damaged, there is no way it's going to survive. If you decided to keep it in just to hit it with Drill Peck, then you can kiss Skarmory good-bye on the ensuing turn. Of course, you could always switch, but that allows the opponent to setup or attack. In essense, you don't gain much from Leftovers. It's just a nice item to have on a Pokemon that doesn't need a particular item to function properly. What I mean by that is that Porygon-Z is almost always carrying Choice Scarf. It's not a guarentee, but that's how it is most effective.
  #163  
Old 12-04-2007, 11:00 PM
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Default Re: mmm... feedback

Yeah Leftovers isn't that good the only item that I would complain about is Brightpowder or anything like it that lowers accuracy I do use leftovers but they wont always help me out anyways.
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  #164  
Old 12-04-2007, 11:14 PM
Kevin Garrett Offline
 
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Default Re: mmm... feedback

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent_Valentine_4 View Post
Yeah Leftovers isn't that good the only item that I would complain about is Brightpowder or anything like it that lowers accuracy I do use leftovers but they wont always help me out anyways.
Brightpowder is a hax item; thus, it is banned through the hax clause. Here is a list of hax items:
  • BrightPowder
  • Focus Band
  • King's Rock
  • Lax Incense
  • Lucky Punch
  • Quick Claw
  • Razor Claw
  • Razor Fang
  • Scope Lens
  • Stick
  #165  
Old 12-05-2007, 02:48 AM
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Default Re: mmm... feedback

This is why I didn't add Hax Items on, cause it can be debated either way. Just leave it up to the leader. Most likely, I'm sure Hax Item Clause will be added on.

~Jack~
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