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Competitive Battling This board is for competitive battling discussion. Get team help or learn to play competitively.


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  #16  
Old 07-26-2007, 12:16 AM
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Default Re: DP Metgame Tiers

For the sake of simplicity, it's better to just remove the "upper", "lesser" and "very" categories and just go with Uber, OU, UU, and NU like CG said.

I can't really comment as i don't have wifi, but last i heard, Manaphy was uber, while Celebi and Jirachi were going to remain OU
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  #17  
Old 07-26-2007, 12:31 AM
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Default Re: DP Metgame Tiers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucavi View Post
For the sake of simplicity, it's better to just remove the "upper", "lesser" and "very" categories and just go with Uber, OU, UU, and NU like CG said.

I can't really comment as i don't have wifi, but last i heard, Manaphy was uber, while Celebi and Jirachi were going to remain OU
Was sorta following the standard that the guy who posted the Advanced Tiers. I geus I can do that. Lots of people have said that. I think I'll keep BL though.
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  #18  
Old 07-26-2007, 09:19 AM
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Post Re: DP Metgame Tiers

http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/2441...arl-tier-list/

i found this on google, and i agree with it 97% of the time.
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  #19  
Old 07-26-2007, 09:43 AM
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Default Re: DP Metgame Tiers

Just wondering, is Meganium considered viable in OU play because of Aromatherapy?
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  #20  
Old 07-26-2007, 12:49 PM
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Default Re: DP Metgame Tiers

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Originally Posted by 1llmatic View Post
Oh and Leman I think your Tier list is more accurate than the one Swidwerd found; it's somewhat reliable, but some Pokemon are seriously misplaced (like Ninjask in UU, wtf?)
Baton Passing isnt that good. People can overrate it all they want, but your wasting a slot on your team that does NOTHING but set up. Ninjask is only good for passing speed boosts and POSSIBLY a swords dance if you can get it off and not get OHKO'd. But at the same time, throwing out Ninjask says "Send out your Gyarados, Garchomp, Tyranitar, or AgiliGross and set up on me". It gives them free turns to set up a Swords Dance, Dragon Dance, or Agility, because theres nothing Ninjask can do to stop it. But yeah, on a Baton Pass TEAM, its great, but I wouldn't throw one on my team to give something a speed boost personally.

Anyways, the tier list posted above is better, but I still disagree with some things. Shaymin should not be OU, I havn't even seen one in game, or on a forum RMT topic, as it has the worst movepool for a legend ever. Even Moltres last gen had more options then that thing. Dugtrio is MAYBE OU, I'd put it on BL this gen though tbh. Its too hard to get out, and if it dosn't OHKO, most the things its trying to counter can OHKO it right back. It still is good though. Gyarados should definatly be in OU, period. Its still used more then alot of other things, and everything HAS a counter. And since Electivire is introduced this gen, and Gyarados screams synergy with it(It begs for a Tbolt and so does Electivire. Switch into Electi when you predict it, and if they dont outpredict you, time to sweep). Weezing is still OU I'd say, or has the potential to be, as hes still a great wall and hazer. Im sort of biased to saying Slowbro deserves OU, but I mean, come on. Slack Off really does give it a GREAT boost this gen. And putting Ludicolo on UU dosn't make ANY sense to me. Unless im missing something HUGE, I don't see what happened to him. He was standered last gen, so yeah. Unless im forgetting something, it should at least be BL, if not still OU.

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Just wondering, is Meganium considered viable in OU play because of Aromatherapy?
I personally don't think so. Every team should be running a Blissey unless the person just has a personally vendetta against it. Since Blissey can run it(S.Toss/Aromathearpy/Thunderwave/Softboiled), theres no real reason to run Meganium imo.
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Last edited by Cybernetic Ghost; 07-26-2007 at 12:52 PM.
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  #21  
Old 07-26-2007, 03:26 PM
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Default Re: DP Metgame Tiers

Tier list yay.

Manaphy is not Uber. You know why? Here is why:

Manaphy gets Hydroresting. Good, yes? Then you have Tail Glow. That leaves only two moveslots for attacking. With Ice Beam and Surf, you're walled by most Waters, especially Lapras and Vaporeon. With Ice Beam and Grass Rope, Fires resist both. Heatran says hi. With Grass Rope and Surf, Grass types wall it. Venusaur and Breloom, hell, even Tropius. That is not good. There's the option of Shadow Ball/HP Fight, but that won't do much if you can find something with good SDef that isn't weak to either. Togekiss.

So no Hydroresting for you? Ok, fine. If Manaphy is Uber, Azelf must be Uber. Massive SAttk, better speed, better movepool, and Explosion at the cost of lower defenses.

So no Tail Glow? Then how does it pose an Uber-like threat at all?

And finally, CM Blissey stops any Manaphy cold, unless you can bluff a standard set and then pull out Heart Swap, which leaves you open to a lot of other things. No, it's not overspecialized, Calm Mind Blissey takes down a lot more than SToss Bliss ever did. In fact, if you have a Blissey, go change it to Calm Mind right now. It's that good.

Heracross, on the other hand, is more of a problem. Good STAB, Swords Dance, great coverage, a bit more unpredictable, and only two good counters in Weezing (if it doesn't switch into Will-o-Wisp) and Gliscor. Yeah, Gengar 4x bug resist Fight immune whatever. Gengar take CB/CS with ease and a bit of prediciton. Salac'd Swords Dance Hera blows it away, even without Night Slash.

And please don't start with the "It can't do good in Ubers." crap. The point of the Ubers tier is to ban things that are too good for OU to create a balanced metagame. The same goes for BL and UU. Ninjask may suck (no it doesn't), but it's way too good for UU. It's literally a UU Uber, and therefore is placed in BL. They're ban tiers.

Last edited by shedinjask; 07-26-2007 at 03:30 PM.
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  #22  
Old 07-26-2007, 04:09 PM
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Default Re: DP Metgame Tiers

I'm all for throwing Manaphy into ubers.

Something that is much more debatable than that tough, in my opinion, is Azelf.

And Heracross won't be uber.
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  #23  
Old 07-26-2007, 04:25 PM
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Default Re: DP Metgame Tiers

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Originally Posted by -4J- View Post
I'm all for throwing Manaphy into ubers.

Something that is much more debatable than that tough, in my opinion, is Azelf.

And Heracross won't be uber.
I didn't say Heracross should be Uber. I said it's more of a threat than Manaphy.

But why do you think Manaphy should be Uber?
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  #24  
Old 07-26-2007, 05:07 PM
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Default Re: DP Metgame Tiers

Mainly overcentralization.
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  #25  
Old 07-26-2007, 05:37 PM
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Default Re: DP Metgame Tiers

Quote:
Manaphy is not Uber. You know why? Here is why:

Manaphy gets Hydroresting. Good, yes? Then you have Tail Glow. That leaves only two moveslots for attacking. With Ice Beam and Surf, you're walled by most Waters, especially Lapras and Vaporeon. With Ice Beam and Grass Rope, Fires resist both. Heatran says hi. With Grass Rope and Surf, Grass types wall it. Venusaur and Breloom, hell, even Tropius. That is not good. There's the option of Shadow Ball/HP Fight, but that won't do much if you can find something with good SDef that isn't weak to either. Togekiss.

So no Hydroresting for you? Ok, fine. If Manaphy is Uber, Azelf must be Uber. Massive SAttk, better speed, better movepool, and Explosion at the cost of lower defenses.

So no Tail Glow? Then how does it pose an Uber-like threat at all?
Hydroresting isn't the reason Manaphy would be/is an uber entirely. Yeah, it can Hydrorest IN ubers as it has that synergy with Kyogre, but outside, its got good stats, can special sweep well, and has Tail Glow. You dont Hydrorest and Tail Glow on the same set tbh. Hydrorest is for walling/stalling, Tail Glow is for sweeping. And even if you do, name a grass type commonly used. Breloom barley sees play, and even though it can do well, its barley used. Togekiss and even Blissey have a hard time walling because of Tail Glow without taking high damage or dying in the process. It isn't set in stone yet that it'll be uber, but I personally see it coming. Its got the movepool to do what it needs to do.

Quote:
And finally, CM Blissey stops any Manaphy cold, unless you can bluff a standard set and then pull out Heart Swap, which leaves you open to a lot of other things. No, it's not overspecialized, Calm Mind Blissey takes down a lot more than SToss Bliss ever did. In fact, if you have a Blissey, go change it to Calm Mind right now. It's that good.
SToss/Aromatherapy/Softboiled with Twave/Tbolt/Ice Beam is vastly superior to CMBliss. The only reason I run CMBliss, is because I dont own Emerald, and I havn't gotten around to trading for a SToss one yet, or borrowing Emerald from a friend.

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Heracross, on the other hand, is more of a problem. Good STAB, Swords Dance, great coverage, a bit more unpredictable, and only two good counters in Weezing (if it doesn't switch into Will-o-Wisp) and Gliscor. Yeah, Gengar 4x bug resist Fight immune whatever. Gengar take CB/CS with ease and a bit of prediciton. Salac'd Swords Dance Hera blows it away, even without Night Slash.
A Heracross running Swords Dance wont sweep to its potential. Theres a reason Heracross is seeing so much use, and its Choice Scarf.

Quote:
And please don't start with the "It can't do good in Ubers." crap. The point of the Ubers tier is to ban things that are too good for OU to create a balanced metagame. The same goes for BL and UU. Ninjask may suck (no it doesn't), but it's way too good for UU. It's literally a UU Uber, and therefore is placed in BL. They're ban tiers.
Agreed if your talking about Heracross not doing well in Ubers, but it should never be uber as its got plenty of counters. Manaphy has much more uber qualitys if you can get at least one Tail Glow off, and the fact that it even has that is uber enough tbh.

And juding on your name alone, Im guessing your biased towards Ninjask, no offense.
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Last edited by Cybernetic Ghost; 07-26-2007 at 05:40 PM.
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  #26  
Old 07-26-2007, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: DP Metgame Tiers

Manaphy is not Uber. Yes it is good, but not Uber quality. It is viable in Ubers yes, like Blissey. Both are excelent in Uberrs yet both are also beatble in OU. I doubt Manaphy will be Uber.

Shaymin is OU, because it can useAromatherapy/Synthesis/Energy Ball/Leech Seed, and that offers good support.Ninjask is also OU, bcause it can pass speed to things like Marowak and MAchamp letting them sweep, even if Gyarados/T-tar/Aligross are allowed to set up.
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  #27  
Old 07-26-2007, 07:34 PM
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Default Re: DP Metgame Tiers

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Originally Posted by Leman View Post
Manaphy is not Uber. Yes it is good, but not Uber quality. It is viable in Ubers yes, like Blissey. Both are excelent in Uberrs yet both are also beatble in OU. I doubt Manaphy will be Uber.

Shaymin is OU, because it can useAromatherapy/Synthesis/Energy Ball/Leech Seed, and that offers good support.Ninjask is also OU, bcause it can pass speed to things like Marowak and MAchamp letting them sweep, even if Gyarados/T-tar/Aligross are allowed to set up.
Just because something can get something else to set up dosn't mean it should be OU. If that was the case, Smeargle should be OU. Ninjask is GREAT in a BP team, but thats where he should stay. Hes BL at best, probably UU. Letting Gdos, TTar, Agilgross, or Swords Dancing Weavile/Garchomp set up is never worth it.

Shaymin has one thing going for it. It has the Celebi stall moveset. Problem is, it has none of the versatility that Celebi has for other things, as thats its ONLY moveset tbh. I guess its decent, but I really dont see it getting much use.

How isn't Manaphy uber quality? Uber quality has nothing to do with how well something does in Ubers. It has to do with how well something CAN do in standereds. If things were rated by how well they did in ubers, speed form deoxys would be standered(although tbh, I could see him being standered anyways lol.). Anyways, I'll be in downright shock of Serebii dosn't put Manaphy in Uber. Then again, if they dont, I'll definatly be taking advantage of it and getting one for myself.
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  #28  
Old 07-26-2007, 07:46 PM
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Default Re: DP Metgame Tiers

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Originally Posted by Cybernetic Ghost View Post
Just because something can get something else to set up dosn't mean it should be OU. If that was the case, Smeargle should be OU. Ninjask is GREAT in a BP team, but thats where he should stay. Hes BL at best, probably UU. Letting Gdos, TTar, Agilgross, or Swords Dancing Weavile/Garchomp set up is never worth it.
Hes not gonna be a staple for every team, though he still isn't forgotten.

Quote:
Shaymin has one thing going for it. It has the Celebi stall moveset. Problem is, it has none of the versatility that Celebi has for other things, as thats its ONLY moveset tbh. I guess its decent, but I really dont see it getting much use.
It can also Sunny Beam with Solar Beam/Sunny Day/ HP Fire/Synthesis, though that will never see play. Still, it is good at doing that, and won't be seen often. when Shaymin does see play, however it has potential to be better than Clebii because people wont be able to counter it well.

Quote:
How isn't Manaphy uber quality? Uber quality has nothing to do with how well something does in Ubers. It has to do with how well something CAN do in standereds. If things were rated by how well they did in ubers, speed form deoxys would be standered(although tbh, I could see him being standered anyways lol.). Anyways, I'll be in downright shock of Serebii dosn't put Manaphy in Uber. Then again, if they dont, I'll definatly be taking advantage of it and getting one for myself.
The thing is that it can do well in standards, and in Ubers. It will have many counters, Electivire, Jolteon, and Raikou just to name a few. Also all Manaphy lacking Grass Knot get walled by Slowbro who can CM and Energy Ball it. Ice Beam less Manaphys get walled by Dragons, like Draggys or Mences, who can DD and fire back Thunder Punch/Fangs.

Yes it can do very well in Ubers though it shouldn't be restricted to it.
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  #29  
Old 07-27-2007, 01:44 PM
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Default Re: DP Metgame Tiers

I just personally feel a Pokemon that requires the number one special wall in the game to use a move that boosts its special defense more in order to beat it should be uber.
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  #30  
Old 07-27-2007, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
It can also Sunny Beam with Solar Beam/Sunny Day/ HP Fire/Synthesis, though that will never see play. Still, it is good at doing that, and won't be seen often. when Shaymin does see play, however it has potential to be better than Clebii because people wont be able to counter it well.
Takes too much setting up outside of a Sunny Day team and gets wrecked by TTar switch ins.
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