Member List
Calendar
F.A.Q.
Search
Log Out
Pokemon Forum - Pokemon Elite 2000  
 

Go Back   Pokemon Forum - Pokemon Elite 2000 » Other Boards » Discussion

Discussion This is for discussion about current events (news), issues, politics, and any other topics of serious discussion. For more casual talk, go to the Other Chat board. Proper sentences, spelling, and grammar is especially strict in this board.


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 10-27-2004, 11:06 PM
Alakazam's Avatar
Alakazam Offline
Elite Trainer (Level 2)
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: WPI
Posts: 2,721
Send a message via AIM to Alakazam
Default The Patriot Act II: A clear sign of the erosion of democracy in America

The "Unifying and Strengthening of America Act" a.k.a. the 'Patriot Act II' has now been passed, taking away even more rights than were revoked in the first Patriot Act. Some of the new rights the US government has are as follows:

-An Amercian's citizenship can be revoked if any of their behaviors / activites are deemed to be 'terrorist' in nature by the government.

-Legal permanent residents living in the US can be deported instantaneously, without arrest or charge.

-A citizen DNA database is in the works, where DNA samples can be obtained WITHOUT a court order. Anyone who refuses will be fined $200,000 and jail time.

-Wiretapping is allowed for any means of communications...yes, that means the government can monitor your phone conversations, read your e-mails, and read your instant message and chat conversations, and all without a warrant

-Secret arrests are now legal, where the government can make an arrest without a charge, and they don't have to release any information about the whearabouts of the detainee until a charge is brought up.

-There are now no such thing as 'illegal searches'. In other words, immunity is granted to a police officer who conducts an illegal search if they were following orders.

-American citizens can be subject to secret surveillance by the US government on behalf of other governments, even dictatorships.

-And, all of the 'sunset provisions' from the first Patriot Act (that stated that the powers granted by the Patroit Act would be dissolved in 2005) were erased.

---

Alright, so lemme get this straight: Uncle Sam could watch me in my home without my knowledge, read my mail, e-mail, listen to my phone conversations, and come and arrest me in the middle of the night. If I refuse to give my DNA, since there is no charge, I get fined and thrown in jail. If my mother calls the police asking where I am, she doesn't have that right.

And, with Bush's "You're either with us or with the terrorists" motif, the above scenario could come to pass for speaking out against the government / the War on Terror with your friends or family, in an e-mail...or even on a forum! *runs from a tank sent by Bush to squash Brian's "terrorist" ideology*

Comments? Concerns? Uncontrollable rage?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by karmachameleon View Post
i wish all of you americans would get out of my country.
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-28-2004, 12:03 AM
Agent Orange's Avatar
Agent Orange Offline
Elite Trainer (Level 4)
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: In my own head...its a tad empty here...
Posts: 4,189
Send a message via AIM to Agent Orange
Default Re: The Patriot Act II: A clear sign of the erosion of democracy in America

Oh my god....this country has gone to hell....I'm afraid to speak my mind now, this is like some big brother sci fi movie...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-28-2004, 12:22 AM
Zenaku's Avatar
Zenaku Offline
Elite Trainer (Level 2)
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: B'ham, England
Posts: 2,137
Send a message via AIM to Zenaku Send a message via MSN to Zenaku Send a message via Yahoo to Zenaku
Default Re: The Patriot Act II: A clear sign of the erosion of democracy in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Pikachu
Oh my god....this country has gone to hell....I'm afraid to speak my mind now, this is like some big brother sci fi movie...
Shh! The government could be listening at this very moment... I bet they already know my plans for world takeover as it is... But thankfully, the new rights are only for America (All us British/European evil genius's can sleep safe at night).

I can't believe Bush, to be honest (Even though I am British). His stupidity crosses the borders of America, and can clearly be seen by anyone in a foreign country. Despite my lack of religious morals, I pray that he does not influence other countries to take the same approach to terrorism. Also...

Concerning the "Sunset provisions" being erased; does that mean that those laws are to stay in America? Even after terrorism is abolished (If/when that ever happens)? Or have I just misunderstood? Either way, such a thing is unfair. If they do monitor everything however (Such as message boards) then it is not just America they are monitoring; they would be monitoring the entire world, without written consent. It's apalling how Bush could think of such an invasion of privacy into Americans- nay, the worlds lives.
__________________


As long as we continue to fight, and destroy, we are forever prisoners of our ignorance and foolishness; true 'freedom' does not exist
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-28-2004, 12:37 AM
JohtoTrainer's Avatar
JohtoTrainer Offline
Elite Trainer (Level 2)
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Augusta County, Virginia
Posts: 2,085
Send a message via AIM to JohtoTrainer Send a message via Yahoo to JohtoTrainer
Default Re: The Patriot Act II: A clear sign of the erosion of democracy in America

XD Do, you really think terrorism can ever be abolished? cause if you think so you insane lol

ANd most of the is NOT unfair. I mean if someone is partcipating in terrorist activities why shouldnt their citizenship be taken away? And concerning the E_mail and computer thing, do you know what the number one way terrorists living in america communicate? Yea, that's right INTERNET.
__________________

This suit is black not.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-28-2004, 01:08 AM
Zenaku's Avatar
Zenaku Offline
Elite Trainer (Level 2)
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: B'ham, England
Posts: 2,137
Send a message via AIM to Zenaku Send a message via MSN to Zenaku Send a message via Yahoo to Zenaku
Default Re: The Patriot Act II: A clear sign of the erosion of democracy in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohtoTrainer
XD Do, you really think terrorism can ever be abolished? cause if you think so you insane lol

ANd most of the is NOT unfair. I mean if someone is partcipating in terrorist activities why shouldnt their citizenship be taken away? And concerning the E_mail and computer thing, do you know what the number one way terrorists living in america communicate? Yea, that's right INTERNET.
Thus why I mentioned "if/when it ever happens". I very much doubt so. And also, to argue with that...

"-Secret arrests are now legal, where the government can make an arrest without a charge, and they don't have to release any information about the whearabouts of the detainee until a charge is brought up."

Is it really fair to arrest someone when a charge is unconfirmed? According to the act, they can be arrested without reason (Or so I interpret it), and a reason doesn't need to be given right away. If they suspect anyone, then you're arrested, no questions asked.

Also, for e-Mails and the like... Out of the millions of people that communicate over the Internet, why should the majority have their privacy invaded because of 1 or 2 people? The internet, phone calls, and such, are meant to be as private as talking face to face. Some people don;t want others to know what they're talking about since it might be personal. Do you really want someone you don't even know reading a very important chat with a friend? I think not.
__________________


As long as we continue to fight, and destroy, we are forever prisoners of our ignorance and foolishness; true 'freedom' does not exist
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-28-2004, 01:24 AM
Alakazam's Avatar
Alakazam Offline
Elite Trainer (Level 2)
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: WPI
Posts: 2,721
Send a message via AIM to Alakazam
Default Re: The Patriot Act II: A clear sign of the erosion of democracy in America

Yes Kamon, that's right. These laws are here to stay. , even after terrorism is gone (even though I agree such a thing will never come to pass)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohtoTrainer
XD Do, you really think terrorism can ever be abolished? cause if you think so you insane lol

ANd most of the is NOT unfair. I mean if someone is partcipating in terrorist activities why shouldnt their citizenship be taken away? And concerning the E_mail and computer thing, do you know what the number one way terrorists living in america communicate? Yea, that's right INTERNET.
No, no, no, JT. You don't understand. I agree that revoking citizenship of terrorists isn't a bad idea, but the scary thing is that no charge has to be filed. In other words, people who aren't acutally terrorist could easily be affected by this, since Bush and his government are the ones with the authority to declare someone a terrorist. They don't have to have any proof!

And like I said before, with Bush's whole BS "You're either with us or your a terrorist", it's very plausible for people who aren't terrorists but speak out against the government can be affected by this. It could easily be used for political gain.

Besides, how much further will this go? How many more of our freedom will we have to give up for the "war on terror"?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by karmachameleon View Post
i wish all of you americans would get out of my country.
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-28-2004, 05:59 AM
Matthew's Avatar
Matthew Offline
Elite Trainer (Level 5)
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Simi Valley
Posts: 5,754
Send a message via AIM to Matthew Send a message via Yahoo to Matthew
Default Re: The Patriot Act II: A clear sign of the erosion of democracy in America

You got to be kidding me!!! I can't beleive that a second Patriot Act has been passed.... I was fine with the first one, but this one is going too far... yeah yeah, I agree with its intentions... but that Act is contradicting the Constitution... and you can only do that by ratifying another amendmant... or so I thought... It is too my knowledge that by constitutional law... that law enforcers are required to have a Search Warrant in order to search and seize property... bah.... this stupid Act is going too far... meh... and it can be interpreted that it is also violating the ninth amendmant in which it says that one has so many rights that they can't all be written... privacy being part of it.... gah.... this ticks me off!
__________________

Last edited by Matthew; 10-31-2004 at 01:44 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-28-2004, 05:25 PM
Zenaku's Avatar
Zenaku Offline
Elite Trainer (Level 2)
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: B'ham, England
Posts: 2,137
Send a message via AIM to Zenaku Send a message via MSN to Zenaku Send a message via Yahoo to Zenaku
Default Re: The Patriot Act II: A clear sign of the erosion of democracy in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alakazam
Yes Kamon, that's right. These laws are here to stay. , even after terrorism is gone (even though I agree such a thing will never come to pass)
Now that really is terrible. Although maybe a "sunset provisions" wasnt included as Bush himself doubts truly stopping terrorism? After all, terrorism will always exist, so Bush could use such as an excuse to keep this new act in power, without direct opposement, or protests; as long as it is 'for the good of the country' at least.

Tell me... If someone other than Bush won the election (Say Kerry, for example), would they then have the power to revoke the new act that has came to pass, or is it permanent no matter what?
__________________


As long as we continue to fight, and destroy, we are forever prisoners of our ignorance and foolishness; true 'freedom' does not exist
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-28-2004, 09:07 PM
Alakazam's Avatar
Alakazam Offline
Elite Trainer (Level 2)
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: WPI
Posts: 2,721
Send a message via AIM to Alakazam
Default Re: The Patriot Act II: A clear sign of the erosion of democracy in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamon
Tell me... If someone other than Bush won the election (Say Kerry, for example), would they then have the power to revoke the new act that has came to pass, or is it permanent no matter what?
Hmm...that's a good question. I'm sure it could be done, but as long as people think that's it for the good of the country, it would be VERY difficult to get a majority vote to repeal it...
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by karmachameleon View Post
i wish all of you americans would get out of my country.
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-28-2004, 10:27 PM
JohtoTrainer's Avatar
JohtoTrainer Offline
Elite Trainer (Level 2)
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Augusta County, Virginia
Posts: 2,085
Send a message via AIM to JohtoTrainer Send a message via Yahoo to JohtoTrainer
Default Re: The Patriot Act II: A clear sign of the erosion of democracy in America

I think it's against the law to change it. But hey, maybe not
__________________

This suit is black not.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-30-2004, 02:36 PM
Lord Celebi's Avatar
Lord Celebi Offline
Zhu-Quiao
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 13,317
Send a message via AIM to Lord Celebi Send a message via Skype™ to Lord Celebi
Default Re: The Patriot Act II: A clear sign of the erosion of democracy in America

Now I've figured out Bush's stupid (Yes, Secret Service dudes, STUPID!) plan.
He's been watching too much Star Wars and is gonna turn the US into the Empire like Palpy by revoking our rights and geting Emergency Powers. I'm sure Bush must of hired the terrorists to create 9/11. The rest just follow Osama *coughNeimodianscough* thinking its real.

Now Secret Service people, quit, quit your evil paymaster!

Oh yeah, Kerry/Edwards '04!

At least is doesnt say they can get someone's IP without going to court. If he did, I would have to leave, blow up my computer, and move to Canada.

Last edited by Lord Celebi; 10-30-2004 at 02:40 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-30-2004, 03:41 PM
Agent Orange's Avatar
Agent Orange Offline
Elite Trainer (Level 4)
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: In my own head...its a tad empty here...
Posts: 4,189
Send a message via AIM to Agent Orange
Default Re: The Patriot Act II: A clear sign of the erosion of democracy in America

I'm pretty sure he CAN get people IP adresses...I mean, if a mod of a forum can, the president of the united states sure can. And Rust, bush may be dumb, but do you REALLY think he would kill thosands of his own people and blow up our nations Trade Centers? I doubt it.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-30-2004, 07:10 PM
Jack of Clovers's Avatar
Jack of Clovers Offline
~lil leprechaun~
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: the world of fantasy...
Posts: 10,388
Send a message via ICQ to Jack of Clovers Send a message via AIM to Jack of Clovers Send a message via MSN to Jack of Clovers Send a message via Yahoo to Jack of Clovers Send a message via Skype™ to Jack of Clovers
Default Re: The Patriot Act II: A clear sign of the erosion of democracy in America

sounds like Big Brother has arrived 20 years later. nevertheless, it's here and the American public can't do too much about it. hopefully, it won't end up like the book.

hint: read 1984 if you don't understand where im coming from. there is a movie also. both are good.

i still have my first amendment rights, we all do. terrorism has corrupted the minds of our government into thinking we are all terrorists. not even our own government can trust us anymore.
if this is the start of our government downfall, its funny to think that one person beat an entire country.

~Jack~
__________________
Thanks PE2K for all the memories.

-| Links |-
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-30-2004, 07:14 PM
Lord Celebi's Avatar
Lord Celebi Offline
Zhu-Quiao
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 13,317
Send a message via AIM to Lord Celebi Send a message via Skype™ to Lord Celebi
Default Re: The Patriot Act II: A clear sign of the erosion of democracy in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Pikachu
I'm pretty sure he CAN get people IP adresses...I mean, if a mod of a forum can, the president of the united states sure can. And Rust, bush may be dumb, but do you REALLY think he would kill thosands of his own people and blow up our nations Trade Centers? I doubt it.
I mean as in getting their identity too.

Also, I told my dad about the Patriot Act 2, and he said the Patriot Act 1 wasn't a law anymore cuz it broke amendment rights.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-30-2004, 09:27 PM
Alakazam's Avatar
Alakazam Offline
Elite Trainer (Level 2)
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: WPI
Posts: 2,721
Send a message via AIM to Alakazam
Default Re: The Patriot Act II: A clear sign of the erosion of democracy in America

Quote:
Originally Posted by rust
I mean as in getting their identity too.

Also, I told my dad about the Patriot Act 2, and he said the Patriot Act 1 wasn't a law anymore cuz it broke amendment rights.
The Patriot Act IS unconstitutional, but I haven't heard that is doesn't exist anymore. Where did he here that from?


And Jack, you're absolutely right. They should have a reprinting of 1984 and call it "George Orwell's 2004". >_<
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by karmachameleon View Post
i wish all of you americans would get out of my country.
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Style Design: AlienSector.com