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  #16  
Old 04-02-2013, 04:44 AM
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Default Re: WAR XII Discussion and Planning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Emolga View Post
Alright, we'll go with Option 2.

Also, sorry to be a killjoy here, but I think we need to make sure we do away with the "pure nonsense" teams like Octopus Babies and so on. I know, some people think it's cute and funny, but that kind of stuff is better saved for a parody WAR.

Yeah, you could legally make a team like "Pooping Seagulls," "Apocalypse Dung Beetles," and "Alien Butt Monkeys" that comply with all the rules, but think about what you're doing to the WAR's image when you do stuff like that. It's okay to clown around, act like a fool, and not take the WAR seriously when the WAR is in parody mode, but when it's not, try to keep things real. Otherwise, the other teams are not sure what to do, especially in the RP itself. If the RP was supposed to be like Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings, "Pooping Seagulls" is like trying to force Monty Python and the Holy Grail down on people when they were expecting something more serious. If you have all the teams with goofy names and nonsense goals, sure, then it works and can be pretty loony, funny, and enjoyable if done right and everyone's in the mindset to do it, but when some are and some aren't, you've got a confused hybrid of the two that doesn't know what to do with itself.

Since the general preference is to keep the WAR more serious, level-headed, and realistic, let's stick with that approach and not try to deviate from it.
Really? @_@ Octopus Babies was able to win a WAR, I would add. Clowning around and acting like a fool, as you said, doesn't give enough credit to teams like that. If we were clowning around and acting like a fool, what were the rest of you guys doing that you couldn't even beat a "nonsense" team?

I understand wanting to keep the WAR serious and level-headed, that's reasonable. But, to be honest, I'm in this thing to have a good time. The way I do that isn't through being serious and level-headed. General preference or not, it would really ruin WAR for me and people in a same situation to me if you killed off the "nonsense" teams. For what, even? The RP? For one section, no matter how important, it's really kind of stupid. Most of the heavy-hitters and WAR veterans love the RP, but for those who aren't that way (me), I feel like it's a terrible trade-off. One section for what's basically the entire WAR to me? The WAR's image and all of that, that's being incredibly superficial. The WAR is a competition across different areas of Pokemon fandom, and the purpose of it is to be fun. If you want to portray it as serious business, that's a lie. It's fun, and letting everyone have fun, not just the people taking it so seriously as to want to eliminate the less serious teams for the sake of an image and seemingly the RP section.

The "general" seem to take WAR more seriously than I do (not in terms of the competition, but just as a concept in general), and that's fair. But to be such douchebags about it that you cut off the kind of teams I like is unnecessary and snobbish. I'm trying to imagine myself in your shoes, and I find your reasons for eliminating less serious teams to be superficial and self-serving. If you put yourself in my shoes, I hope you see that I'm just losing what I personally like about the WAR to have fun.
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  #17  
Old 04-02-2013, 05:03 AM
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Default Re: WAR XII Discussion and Planning

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Really? @_@ Octopus Babies was able to win a WAR, I would add. Clowning around and acting like a fool, as you said, doesn't give enough credit to teams like that. If we were clowning around and acting like a fool, what were the rest of you guys doing that you couldn't even beat a "nonsense" team?

I understand wanting to keep the WAR serious and level-headed, that's reasonable. But, to be honest, I'm in this thing to have a good time. The way I do that isn't through being serious and level-headed. General preference or not, it would really ruin WAR for me and people in a same situation to me if you killed off the "nonsense" teams. For what, even? The RP? For one section, no matter how important, it's really kind of stupid. Most of the heavy-hitters and WAR veterans love the RP, but for those who aren't that way (me), I feel like it's a terrible trade-off. One section for what's basically the entire WAR to me? The WAR's image and all of that, that's being incredibly superficial. The WAR is a competition across different areas of Pokemon fandom, and the purpose of it is to be fun. If you want to portray it as serious business, that's a lie. It's fun, and letting everyone have fun, not just the people taking it so seriously as to want to eliminate the less serious teams for the sake of an image and seemingly the RP section.

The "general" seem to take WAR more seriously than I do (not in terms of the competition, but just as a concept in general), and that's fair. But to be such douchebags about it that you cut off the kind of teams I like is unnecessary and snobbish. I'm trying to imagine myself in your shoes, and I find your reasons for eliminating less serious teams to be superficial and self-serving. If you put yourself in my shoes, I hope you see that I'm just losing what I personally like about the WAR to have fun.
How about we allow "nonsense" teams but ban members of such teams from the RP section. Would that be a fair compromise? Just trying to make everyone happy. There would still be plenty of other teams to compete in the RP and members who join such teams would go in knowing that they can't participate there, and therefore would most likely be people like Nitro (and myself honestly) who didn't have any intention of RPing for it and are just in it for other section(s).
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Last edited by Alcadies; 04-02-2013 at 05:05 AM.
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  #18  
Old 04-02-2013, 05:07 AM
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Default Re: WAR XII Discussion and Planning

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Originally Posted by Alcadies View Post
How about we allow "nonsense" teams but ban members of such teams from the RP section. Would that be a fair compromise? Just trying to make everyone happy. There would still be plenty of other teams to compete in the RP and members who join such teams would go in knowing that they can't participate there, and therefore would most likely be people like Nitro (and myself honestly) who didn't have any intention of RPing for it and are just in it for other section(s).
Well the thing is, what if my "nonsense" team attracts someone who wants to RP, but wants to do so on my team because they like it? I lose one potential member if my team isn't allowed to RP, but if I have to conform my team to meet their standards, then I lose my team.

Either way, I'm losing out, and unfairly so.
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  #19  
Old 04-02-2013, 05:42 AM
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Default Re: WAR XII Discussion and Planning

I'm really sick of hearing this.

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Originally Posted by Neo Emolga View Post
Alright, we'll go with Option 2.

Also, sorry to be a killjoy here, but I think we need to make sure we do away with the "pure nonsense" teams like Octopus Babies and so on. I know, some people think it's cute and funny, but that kind of stuff is better saved for a parody WAR.

The Octopus Babies won without a single RP participant. If you want to stress the RP's importance, make it worth enough points to counterbalance.

Yeah, you could legally make a team like "Pooping Seagulls," "Apocalypse Dung Beetles," and "Alien Butt Monkeys" that comply with all the rules, but think about what you're doing to the WAR's image when you do stuff like that. It's okay to clown around, act like a fool, and not take the WAR seriously when the WAR is in parody mode, but when it's not, try to keep things real.

I fail to see anything real about WAR.

"A role-playing game (RPG and sometimes roleplaying game[1][2]) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting."

I would like to draw attention to the contradiction in these two statements. This argument is sillier than the teams its targeting.


Otherwise, the other teams are not sure what to do, especially in the RP itself. If the RP was supposed to be like Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings, "Pooping Seagulls" is like trying to force Monty Python and the Holy Grail down on people when they were expecting something more serious. If you have all the teams with goofy names and nonsense goals, sure, then it works and can be pretty loony, funny, and enjoyable if done right and everyone's in the mindset to do it, but when some are and some aren't, you've got a confused hybrid of the two that doesn't know what to do with itself.

I think if anybody other than the WAR leadership that were heavily invested in the WAR RP were all that offended by goofy teams, they'd probably have been vocal about it.

Since the general preference is to keep the WAR more serious, level-headed, and realistic, let's stick with that approach and not try to deviate from it.

I would really love to meet a group of these people that I can't count on my fingers, if there are even that many people left to compete in WAR.
Just accept the fact that the goofy teams are the Harlem Globetrotters of WAR.
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  #20  
Old 04-02-2013, 11:18 AM
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Default Re: WAR XII Discussion and Planning

I'm bringing up RP since it's the section that's most affected by teams doing this kind of thing. Sure, I understand it's not the only section and to some people, it's really not important. For others, they want a WAR RP that tries to be more like an actual story and not a satire. If people in general wanted things to be outrageously goofy, every team would be like the Octopus Babies and the RP storylines would be pure nonsense each and every time. But they're not. Teams like this are the exception and the minority.

Nonsense teams are better off used for other occasions. They worked great for the parody WAR when it was around, and should really be saved for occasions like that. During the parody WARs, every team was a nonsense team so everything fit together and it was appropriate in that setting and context. If you're bummed out that parody WARs don't happen anymore, well, to be honest they were never really that successful in the first place. I know because I was the guy who started the first of them back after Season 3. I ran one, barely managed to keep it alive (and some people downright hated it and looked at me like I was an idiot), and decided to end it early and not run one again. When Mikey did it a few years back, he struggled with it as well to keep activity going. Most people prefer a more neutral-themed and level-headed WAR, and that's generally where things need to be kept. Since we find that's what works and performs significantly better than a parody WAR, that's what we've been sticking with. If parody WARs worked better, logically we'd be going with that.

Think of the National Football League. You have teams like the Ravens, the Giants, the Patriots, the Saints, and so on. Same goes for the NBA, the NFL, MLB, and all the rest. No where do you have teams with names like "Pooping Seagulls," "Apocalypse Dung Beetles," and "Alien Butt Monkeys" running around (imagine what their mascot would be like). Yes, even your Harlem Globetrotters aren't nearly as bad. Think about the kind of perception and image it would be creating for the entire league if some teams started doing this by tossing away their pride and dignity and began clowning around and disrespecting what the league was supposed to be about: professional athletics, competition, and teamwork. And think about what an outside spectator might be thinking about the league's nature and the people that take part in it with teams like this. Do you think this makes things better or worse?

Bottom line, I just feel goofy teams are out of place in the WAR. They just don't work alongside the rest of the teams and there's no connective harmony between the teams. No one started making teams like this until teams from the parody WARs were carried over into the actual WARs, and this kind of thing didn't happen until much later. The other thing is sure, they wouldn't be so bad if every team did this, but most of them don't want to and they'd rather keep things neutral.

I think the best solution would be to hold it to a vote. Either all the teams should be neutral, or they take the goofy approach, but not a mix of the two.
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  #21  
Old 04-02-2013, 09:57 PM
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Default Re: WAR XII Discussion and Planning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Emolga View Post
I'm bringing up RP since it's the section that's most affected by teams doing this kind of thing. Sure, I understand it's not the only section and to some people, it's really not important. For others, they want a WAR RP that tries to be more like an actual story and not a satire. If people in general wanted things to be outrageously goofy, every team would be like the Octopus Babies and the RP storylines would be pure nonsense each and every time. But they're not. Teams like this are the exception and the minority.

It's not just that some people don't care about the WAR. It's that, no matter how much that one section, any section, is worth, why should "nonsense" teams be sacrificed for the sake of that one section? And also, doesn't each RP offer its own context? I can't really imagine the gimmick a team is based around being something that honestly factors in too much, and even then, I find that to be a fault with the RP section rather than the team.

The teams are above the RP and are bigger concepts, and so logically, the RP should be the one trying to accommodate the other. The problem is, I find that many of today's most outspoken WAR participants are RP elitists (i.e. Neo, Bron, rust) that place more emphasis than is healthy on that one section as opposed to other sections, and that leads to a less-than-ideal WAR that revolves more around the RP than other sections. The RP should be one of the highest scoring sections, if not the most high scoring section, for the work involved, but at some point, you do need to draw a line.


Nonsense teams are better off used for other occasions. They worked great for the parody WAR when it was around, and should really be saved for occasions like that. During the parody WARs, every team was a nonsense team so everything fit together and it was appropriate in that setting and context. If you're bummed out that parody WARs don't happen anymore, well, to be honest they were never really that successful in the first place. I know because I was the guy who started the first of them back after Season 3. I ran one, barely managed to keep it alive (and some people downright hated it and looked at me like I was an idiot), and decided to end it early and not run one again. When Mikey did it a few years back, he struggled with it as well to keep activity going. Most people prefer a more neutral-themed and level-headed WAR, and that's generally where things need to be kept. Since we find that's what works and performs significantly better than a parody WAR, that's what we've been sticking with. If parody WARs worked better, logically we'd be going with that.

I'm not at all bummed out parody WARs don't happen, I like the competition of the "real" WARs. But, I don't see how that's relative to "nonsense" teams. In the Octopus Babies WAR, Octopus Babies thrived and won the WAR with high activity and quality production across many different sections. I think that's a WAR well won, compared to some years where a large portion of a team's points came from the RP and judging. Tell me how a nonsense team is better for other occasions when they can perform in the WAR at just as high a level as the serious teams.

Think of the National Football League. You have teams like the Ravens, the Giants, the Patriots, the Saints, and so on. Same goes for the NBA, the NFL, MLB, and all the rest. No where do you have teams with names like "Pooping Seagulls," "Apocalypse Dung Beetles," and "Alien Butt Monkeys" running around (imagine what their mascot would be like). Yes, even your Harlem Globetrotters aren't nearly as bad. Think about the kind of perception and image it would be creating for the entire league if some teams started doing this by tossing away their pride and dignity and began clowning around and disrespecting what the league was supposed to be about: professional athletics, competition, and teamwork. And think about what an outside spectator might be thinking about the league's nature and the people that take part in it with teams like this. Do you think this makes things better or worse?

Those leagues are a business. WAR is a forum game. I think anyone can see the differences between the two.

Bottom line, I just feel goofy teams are out of place in the WAR. They just don't work alongside the rest of the teams and there's no connective harmony between the teams. No one started making teams like this until teams from the parody WARs were carried over into the actual WARs, and this kind of thing didn't happen until much later. The other thing is sure, they wouldn't be so bad if every team did this, but most of them don't want to and they'd rather keep things neutral.

No one ever asked for synergy between teams, and in the competition, there is no difference made either way. WAR is a competition, nothing more and nothing less. Octopus Babies never harmed the WAR as a whole, and I've yet to see an example where any other nonsense team harmed the WAR in a way that wasn't superficial.

I think the best solution would be to hold it to a vote. Either all the teams should be neutral, or they take the goofy approach, but not a mix of the two.

Problem is, as I said earlier, many of the most vocal participants of WAR today are RP elitists, and in some cases with some more worrisome than others, shamelessly biased. I worry about how fair a vote would be if that's what we did.
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  #22  
Old 04-03-2013, 04:56 AM
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Default Re: WAR XII Discussion and Planning

For a bunch of guys that insist on making a ridiculous WAR team, you sure get deadly serious about trying to defend it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitro
It's not just that some people don't care about the WAR. It's that, no matter how much that one section, any section, is worth, why should "nonsense" teams be sacrificed for the sake of that one section? And also, doesn't each RP offer its own context? I can't really imagine the gimmick a team is based around being something that honestly factors in too much, and even then, I find that to be a fault with the RP section rather than the team.

The teams are above the RP and are bigger concepts, and so logically, the RP should be the one trying to accommodate the other. The problem is, I find that many of today's most outspoken WAR participants are RP elitists (i.e. Neo, Bron, rust) that place more emphasis than is healthy on that one section as opposed to other sections, and that leads to a less-than-ideal WAR that revolves more around the RP than other sections. The RP should be one of the highest scoring sections, if not the most high scoring section, for the work involved, but at some point, you do need to draw a line.

It's not just for the RP, but like I said, that section would get affected the most and just makes it needlessly hard on the poor guy that has to come up with the storyline. Also, just because you guys don't really take part in the RP doesn't mean it's just okay to expect everyone to "deal with it." It gets out of place.

Again, it's hard for an RP to accommodate even just four normal teams, never mind three normal teams and then one really ridiculous one. I invite you to try it, it's not easy. Not to mention you need to make it a really darn good RP that most people will enjoy.


I'm not at all bummed out parody WARs don't happen, I like the competition of the "real" WARs. But, I don't see how that's relative to "nonsense" teams. In the Octopus Babies WAR, Octopus Babies thrived and won the WAR with high activity and quality production across many different sections. I think that's a WAR well won, compared to some years where a large portion of a team's points came from the RP and judging. Tell me how a nonsense team is better for other occasions when they can perform in the WAR at just as high a level as the serious teams.

It doesn't make a difference whether Octopus Babies won the WAR. I've seen teams win the WAR simply by taking part in all the sections that other teams didn't take part in, or submitted entries when other teams had given up. Kind of like what you guys did with URPG and POL that WAR.

Just because it won doesn't make it right.


Those leagues are a business. WAR is a forum game. I think anyone can see the differences between the two.

You missed the point there. Those leagues have teams with similar and neutral-themed names, not a mix of teams with neutral names with nonsense names. It has nothing to do with business not equaling a forum game.

No one ever asked for synergy between teams, and in the competition, there is no difference made either way. WAR is a competition, nothing more and nothing less. Octopus Babies never harmed the WAR as a whole, and I've yet to see an example where any other nonsense team harmed the WAR in a way that wasn't superficial.

I seem to recall quite a few people disliking your team's nature in messengers, but I'm not going to mention names (not to mention I think a few of them left a while ago). But let's just leave it that not everyone was cool with it like you think they were. Sure, no one asked for synergy between teams, but it has been implied since the beginning.

Second, to a newcomer of the WAR, seeing teams like the nonsense ones gives them the wrong idea. Like the whole thing is just a joke and we're all just wasting our time being foolish about it. It promotes spam, degradation of quality, and other reckless behavior. And if you think I'm kidding...

One
Two
Three

And besides these, there were plenty of other cases where you guys broke the four word rule and posted complete nonsense. To a newbie, when you see the regular members doing that stuff, you begin to think that's okay and doing that kind of thing is how you're going to fit in around here. Not cool.

But the main issue is you guys think you're hilarious, but in all honesty, it's lame. Let's be honest now. Posting terribly made JPEGs, spamming, and parading around with a ridiculous team name and theme is a bad attempt at humor and you know it. Winning the WAR should be done by doing your best and having some pride in yourself and your abilities, not by making everyone else think it's a silly and stupid waste of time.


Problem is, as I said earlier, many of the most vocal participants of WAR today are RP elitists, and in some cases with some more worrisome than others, shamelessly biased. I worry about how fair a vote would be if that's what we did.

If most people vote against the idea of having goofy teams, that's because they don't want them for whatever personal reason or opinion they're entitled to have, not because they're against you or because they're biased "RP elitists." Regardless, it doesn't work to have a mix of neutral teams and goofy teams, not just because of RP-related issues. If most people are against the idea of having goofy teams and vote accordingly, sorry, but in the interest of satisfying the desires of the majority, you would have to accept it.

The only other options are a coin flip and someone in the position of authority making the decision, both of which would result in undesirable results and debates. Voting on the matter is really the only way to make the decision as fair as possible, unless you have another means in mind to settle this dispute.
Anyway, I'd hate to say it, but after reviewing the activity thread and assessing the current situation, I'm beginning to think we may not have enough people to run a traditional WAR this year. 15 means only three teams with five people, provided everyone is active and sticks through the entire WAR. Relocation or not, there would need to be a pretty hard limitation on what sections would appear to ensure they're active to at least some degree, and the only ones I think that could remain active under such limited conditions are RP, writing, and art. And I have a feeling with only three teams, most judging would be either/or decisions, or one team picking up points in an area that isn't being done by the two others. Simply put, the WAR just can't work like that where points are getting handed out by default.

I'm open to other thoughts or suggestions with regards to how to approach this, but I think there would need to be some major changes and potentially a lot of stripping down if we're still going to run it this year.
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  #23  
Old 04-03-2013, 01:17 PM
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Default Re: WAR XII Discussion and Planning

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Originally Posted by Neo Emolga View Post
For a bunch of guys that insist on making a ridiculous WAR team, you sure get deadly serious about trying to defend it...

That probably comes from you mistakenly assuming our ridiculous WAR team to be indicative of how much we care about WAR.

It's not just for the RP, but like I said, that section would get affected the most and just makes it needlessly hard on the poor guy that has to come up with the storyline. Also, just because you guys don't really take part in the RP doesn't mean it's just okay to expect everyone to "deal with it." It gets out of place.

Again, it's hard for an RP to accommodate even just four normal teams, never mind three normal teams and then one really ridiculous one. I invite you to try it, it's not easy. Not to mention you need to make it a really darn good RP that most people will enjoy.

Okay, I don't know how to run a RP, fair enough. At the same time, though, I don't see how a team's theme can make a drastic difference in a RP. Say we had a team revolving around platypuses, as opposed to one that was trying to take over the world with a group of evil chemists and biologists. In the RP, would the group of evil chemists and biologists be obligated to be evil and scientific in their methods? And, in extension of that, would the platypus group be forced to base everything they do off of platypuses? I don't see how that's at all necessary for either group, as the RP provides its own context and each team can decide how they want to work with that RP. I don't see where, if you're RPing against someone from either a platypus team or an evil chemist team, or any other team for that matter, you MUST take that into factor when that team could choose to go in another direction for the purposes of the RP.

It doesn't make a difference whether Octopus Babies won the WAR. I've seen teams win the WAR simply by taking part in all the sections that other teams didn't take part in, or submitted entries when other teams had given up. Kind of like what you guys did with URPG and POL that WAR.

Just because it won doesn't make it right.

Your original problem was "clown[ing] around, act[ing] like a fool, and not tak[ing] the WAR seriously". Outside of our own team thread (a place where I see to be fully acceptable, since the team thread can totally be used for casual conversation), we took the WAR seriously. I was pointing out the fact we won to be proof of how seriously we take the WAR.

As for URPG and POL, those are sections we couldn't have won without at least an effort made from competition from other teams. Otherwise, who would we have battled? Therefore, you can't say the other teams didn't take part in those sections or didn't submit entries.


You missed the point there. Those leagues have teams with similar and neutral-themed names, not a mix of teams with neutral names with nonsense names. It has nothing to do with business not equaling a forum game.

No, you missed my point. A business is something that is taken seriously. Our forum game is something that doesn't need to be taken quite so seriously. Those teams are taken seriously by people like analysts, journalists, etc. that have paid jobs revolving around them. Our game is just for fun, and appeals strictly to the participants and perhaps other forum members watching from sidelines if there are any. The difference would be the "tone" (better word for it exists, but it's slipping my mind) of the particular competition, and ours is noticeably less serious than a paid, money-making business. The tone of WAR makes it fully acceptable to have nonsense teams, since the people it appeals to are mostly taking it as just a game for fun. Your analogy is fundamentally built upon the difference between sports and Pokemon, and for our Pokemon forum, we should never have to take anything as seriously as a professional sports league.

I seem to recall quite a few people disliking your team's nature in messengers, but I'm not going to mention names (not to mention I think a few of them left a while ago). But let's just leave it that not everyone was cool with it like you think they were. Sure, no one asked for synergy between teams, but it has been implied since the beginning.

Second, to a newcomer of the WAR, seeing teams like the nonsense ones gives them the wrong idea. Like the whole thing is just a joke and we're all just wasting our time being foolish about it. It promotes spam, degradation of quality, and other reckless behavior. And if you think I'm kidding...

One
Two
Three

And besides these, there were plenty of other cases where you guys broke the four word rule and posted complete nonsense. To a newbie, when you see the regular members doing that stuff, you begin to think that's okay and doing that kind of thing is how you're going to fit in around here. Not cool.

It was never implied at all, either. @_@ I completely miss how you think that.

And, we attracted a small amount of newcomers to our team. I believe that newcomers would see the WAR as a light-hearted game, the same way myself and many members from that Octo Babies team see it. The examples you posted were in one case, from our thread, which I see to be fully acceptable and not doing any harm at all since that should not be regulated by anything other than the forum rules (I'll get to four word rule later). As for one and three, those were in threads were at that point, there was no longer any discussion going in. By that point, the WAR was finished. You call it degradation of quality, but I don't see it degrading anything other than the false idea of a deadpan and serious WAR.

We broke four word rule and posted complete nonsense. If we broke four word rule, we should have been punished, and it's on forum moderators to be responsible for that. However, it shouldn't relate to our team. We didn't conspire to break four word rule as a team, the individual members just didn't care for it. The individual members should be punished, not the team. Complete nonsense, I don't see how that's breaking any rules. Complete nonsense =/= spam, and in the context of the Octo Babies thread and the members of that particular group, complete nonsense might be a contribution to the conversation.


But the main issue is you guys think you're hilarious, but in all honesty, it's lame. Let's be honest now. Posting terribly made JPEGs, spamming, and parading around with a ridiculous team name and theme is a bad attempt at humor and you know it. Winning the WAR should be done by doing your best and having some pride in yourself and your abilities, not by making everyone else think it's a silly and stupid waste of time.

Are you kidding me? You should glean from that paragraph that you're unfairly hateful of what the non-serious teams represent. Bad attempt at humor or not (and who are you to judge our sense of humor, Dane Cook), we enjoyed it. Personally, I loved it. Our JPEGs and whatnot were how we enjoyed ourselves and had a good time. We won the WAR through doing our best (dominating URPG and POL battlers of other teams, among other things), and I don't see where any of our members lacked pride in ourselves and our abilities. If anyone reacts to us as a silly and stupid waste of time, then it has to be on them. The WAR is a tested and proud tradition we're partaking in seriously, visible through our efforts made to win it, and anyone that can't see that because we're having a good time is just a sour grape (i.e you).

As a matter of fact, I find your personal bias against teams like that to be the root of this problem. Because you don't think we're funny, you think we're intentionally out to insult the WAR. That's a lie, and I've had enough of your childish inability to get past that. It's even more childish than the way Octo Babies conducted themselves. You should either shape up, or let someone else with a more open mind run the WAR.


If most people vote against the idea of having goofy teams, that's because they don't want them for whatever personal reason or opinion they're entitled to have, not because they're against you or because they're biased "RP elitists." Regardless, it doesn't work to have a mix of neutral teams and goofy teams, not just because of RP-related issues. If most people are against the idea of having goofy teams and vote accordingly, sorry, but in the interest of satisfying the desires of the majority, you would have to accept it.

The only other options are a coin flip and someone in the position of authority making the decision, both of which would result in undesirable results and debates. Voting on the matter is really the only way to make the decision as fair as possible, unless you have another means in mind to settle this dispute.

The problem is, I question the integrity of the majority, and I find it to be doing the tradition of the WAR itself a disservice if we eliminate what I find to be a good part of it for the satisfaction of that majority.

Anyway, I'd hate to say it, but after reviewing the activity thread and assessing the current situation, I'm beginning to think we may not have enough people to run a traditional WAR this year. 15 means only three teams with five people, provided everyone is active and sticks through the entire WAR. Relocation or not, there would need to be a pretty hard limitation on what sections would appear to ensure they're active to at least some degree, and the only ones I think that could remain active under such limited conditions are RP, writing, and art. And I have a feeling with only three teams, most judging would be either/or decisions, or one team picking up points in an area that isn't being done by the two others. Simply put, the WAR just can't work like that where points are getting handed out by default.

I'm open to other thoughts or suggestions with regards to how to approach this, but I think there would need to be some major changes and potentially a lot of stripping down if we're still going to run it this year.
a
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Old 04-03-2013, 02:42 PM
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Default Re: WAR XII Discussion and Planning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitro
As a matter of fact, I find your personal bias against teams like that to be the root of this problem. Because you don't think we're funny, you think we're intentionally out to insult the WAR. That's a lie, and I've had enough of your childish inability to get past that. It's even more childish than the way Octo Babies conducted themselves. You should either shape up, or let someone else with a more open mind run the WAR.
Since we're really getting nowhere here and I've got other things to take care of...

If you want to take command and run the WAR, here, have it. It's all yours, Nitro, do with it what you may. If you think your methods are more fair than mine, you feel your ideas best serve the interests of the people here more than mine, and you feel you're more open-minded than I am, then sure, you should have it. Do what you think is right. If what you're saying is really true, then you're right, I shouldn't be attempting to run the WAR this year, you should. I feel it would be pretty detrimental if I continued to do it if most people felt the same way as you.

But before you take leadership, keep in mind it's a lot of work, time, and responsibility. But really, I think you should try it at least once, so you can see for yourself how much is needed to get a WAR off the ground. If you think you can handle the pressure, even when people are disrespecting the hard work you've put into it and your efforts to keep everything under control, then you're just the guy for the job. I would try to offer some advice, but since you feel I'm a bad leader and I'm just "sour," I think I'll just take my leave.

Anyway, like I said, I've got other things to do and take care of. Good luck with everything.
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Old 04-03-2013, 07:15 PM
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Default Re: WAR XII Discussion and Planning

Alright, let me try and help you guys with this, because this is not a good way to handle ourselves or move forward, we need to get this behind us so we can progress, please. I am glad everyone is passionate about WAR, but if we stay stuck on this topic, it will progress into a hostile environment. I get that everyone is concerned about WAR, what will happen, how it will play out, but we need to move forward to actually have a WAR. If we linger on one topic, that will prohibit us from getting anywhere.

I understand that everyone here is invested in the War. After all, we all have fond and wonderful memories from such an event. It is one of our favorite parts of this place and we want to cherish and retain such feelings.

Transitioning into WAR XII is certain to cause doubt, uncertainty, and what not. Even more so, because we are moving to a new forum, which is uncertain of activity and success. As we are moving into this new WAR on this new forum, no one knows what lies beyond this point. We are not sure how successful the forum will be, much less how active our WAR will be. Everyone involved is working very very diligently to increase our odds at being successful.

We are all acquainted well, we know one another from past WARS, past forum experiences, or even real life experiences. We desire this to be a success and are united in this same goal. For that reason, I'd like to encourage us to work together in harmony to accomplish this task. We can only progress if we unite. If we stand divided on one topic, then we stand divided on WAR itself. Only is everyone comes together to make this work as best it can, will WAR succeed.

PE2K is dying and we've known that for awhile now, which is why we're attempting to make a new forum, to get us back to the good times, and the times we all loved. To transition the WAR to a new place will require all of our efforts and time. A bounty of teamwork and cooperation for to do otherwise would result in the death of this saga that we all cherish.

To that end, I ask that we take a step back for a moment and consider that while we all do care, we should remain respectful. Remain friends and comrades. Understand each other's ideas and perspectives without the need for insults or harsh words or actions. We are the guardians of the War and as such, must surely stand together in these trying times. And the only way to do so is through understanding, through cooperation, and through compassion for our fellow members. We must voice our opinions to make this the most successful WAR yet, but we must do so respectfully, in a calm and contained matter.

There is room for compromise and middle ground. There is also a way for everyone to win and have what they want. It's merely a matter of discussing things out. We have to progress, and we can only do so by discussing.

A possible solution here, for example, and you certainly don't have to use this if there are better ideas, is to allow silly teams, but ask that they create a serious roleplaying profile if they have members that wish to participate in the War RP. Thus everyone is happy. The creative teams have a chance to enjoy their teams while the serious roleplayers maintain the strong atmosphere and environment they desire. WAR is all in good fun, to achieve WAR, we must look at it as fun and friendly, not hostile and divided.

When we cooperate and work together, we can come up with solutions that meet the desires of everyone and thus not only create harmony, but joy for all those participating, making it a better experience for everyone involved, and thus, creating cherished memories.

As ironic as it sounds, to create WAR, we must first have peace.
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Old 04-03-2013, 08:13 PM
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Default Re: WAR XII Discussion and Planning

Corey's right, it's better we just try to peacefully compromise over this rather than get bitter about it.

At the moment, Harry's Project is more important than the WAR right now, because as it is, PE2K can't support the next WAR anyway. The issues the forum keeps having make it feel like the whole forum could crash any day now and we would lose everything. Thus, I think it's more important that people try to help with the Project first, then focus on the WAR once everything is in place and working. If the Project is successful and everything goes smoothly, then we can shift gears and put that time into WAR planning.

I'll openly admit, I had my doubts about Harry's Project at first since I've seen many other similar projects come and die out quickly, but after getting a first look at it myself, he's onto something special that has the potential to go big. It's simple, but fantastic. And it's coming along beautifully. But it needs the help of everyone to really go as far as it can, so instead of focusing our time and energy debating this, which hasn't been productive at all, let's help Harry get this project going. Silly teams or not, I think we can all agree on this.

I don't want to spend more time debating about silly teams vs neutral teams and whatever. Let's throw that aside and we'll figure out something later. I think Corey's idea is fair anyway. Still, let's just direct that time and energy toward something more productive. While Harry and his team have already done a fantastic job, they need more help and more people.
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:53 PM
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Default Re: WAR XII Discussion and Planning

Well forgive me, but I'm really not the type to stand by and watch what I consider to be some serious BS happen. I never asked to take over WAR myself though, and it would be nice to keep that in mind. I'll end it at that, however.

I can agree to Corey's suggestion. It's fully reasonable, and works for me. Thanks for settling this, I was probably crossing lines at this point.

And yeah, Harry's project seems like it'll work out really well. He's a great leader and it's all laid out well, plus he's got a lot of great minds aboard. It's made a lot of progress in the relatively short time since it started, though I don't know if it'll be ready for WAR. More importantly, though, I just feel like it would be sentimentally right to at least have one more WAR on PE2k. Like, we're so close to the WAR time, so I'd rather just finish it out here with one final WAR. For old time's sake, etc. It may not be ideal because of Pe2k's lag and stuff like that, but I just feel that would be a thing that would be cool to do. Maybe just me, idk.
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:53 PM
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Default Re: WAR XII Discussion and Planning

Well forgive me, but I'm really not the type to stand by and watch what I consider to be some serious BS happen. I never asked to take over WAR myself though, and it would be nice to keep that in mind. I'll end it at that, however.

I can agree to Corey's suggestion. It's fully reasonable, and works for me. Thanks for settling this, I was probably crossing lines at this point.

And yeah, Harry's project seems like it'll work out really well. He's a great leader and it's all laid out well, plus he's got a lot of great minds aboard. It's made a lot of progress in the relatively short time since it started, though I don't know if it'll be ready for WAR. More importantly, though, I just feel like it would be sentimentally right to at least have one more WAR on PE2k. Like, we're so close to the WAR time, so I'd rather just finish it out here with one final WAR. For old time's sake, etc. It may not be ideal because of Pe2k's lag and stuff like that, but I just feel that would be a thing that would be cool to do. Maybe just me, idk.
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:34 PM
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Default Re: WAR XII Discussion and Planning

Glad we could come to compromise, I'm very happy to see this, you two have no idea! You can thank Harry for the wording, but we both had the same solution. c:

I'm idea-blocked right now, so that's all I have to say, lol. Thanks a lot, this really helps us out!
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Old 04-04-2013, 03:31 AM
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Default Re: WAR XII Discussion and Planning

Nitro, I know what you mean when you say it does feel like that one last WAR should be on PE2K. But, I'm just not sure how it would ultimately turn out. One badly-timed database error crash could knock out the forum for a whole week. Unfortunately, it's happened before and to have that happen right in the middle of the WAR makes a train wreck out of submission and judging periods. Lately, it's been okay with only a few lag spikes here and there, but PE2K has the tendency to be working fine one minute, and then crashing down unexpectedly the next. We would be tossing the dice when it comes to relying on this place to be able to do the activities, which is kind of why I'm leaning more toward migration, but again, we're just not 100% sure how it's going to turn out. That's kind of why I'm saying that the more attention, effort, and support that goes into Harry's project, the better it will be and the better its chances of thriving will become. No matter what peoples' skills are, everyone can pitch in something. He's done a tremendous amount for PE2K and this community, so I think this is a fantastic opportunity for everyone to help give something back and help him make his project the best it can be. Everyone stands to benefit from it, so we really should make this the main objective at the moment.

As for me, I've been kind of stressed out lately by a bunch of things not WAR or PE2K related, but I carried my frustration and exhaustion over here and that really wasn't the right thing to do. I shouldn't have lost my cool and decided to get negative about things. So yeah, I'm sorry for being bitter earlier.

I'll try to be more open-minded when it comes to things. The biggest concern right now is where and when it's going to happen, but I think that decision is something we're going to need to put on hold, at least until we can make a determination on how to proceed next based on how things are going.
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