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  #1  
Old 08-03-2012, 01:58 PM
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Default Christian Feminists? Oh, the irony.

The topic I am here to talk about today, is the blatant sexism in the Bible and why people claim they is so readily accept the Bible as the word of God. To give you an idea about how accepted the Bible is in modern society, approximately 2.1 billion people in the world proclaim themselves to be Christian. Whether or not they are practicing is entirely up for debate. But, whether or not they are active in their faith, the very fact that they affiliate themselves with the institution gives the religion more power than one could possibly believe.

So why would any educated feminist try to justify their beliefs in the Bible? From a reasonable standpoint, there is no possible way a person could deny the fact that the Bible promotes a patriarchal society. It would be like denying gravity, or the principles of physics. I see not a reason for any feminist to remain Christian if they had ever read the Bible, but how could you ever subscribe to a religion without reading its fundamental values?

It would be like saying someone was a Libertarian, but then that person supports Authoritarian policies. Both Libertarianism and Authoritarianism directly contradict each other, similar to Abrahamic religions and modern feminism. The first question I'd have to ask is whether or not said feminist would ever admit that the Bible is the word of God. If it is, it is evident that the person knows nothing of their faith-based convictions. I'd then have to ask what their idea of a feminist utopia would be, considering the fact that the Bible clearly says depicts a masculine dominance in society.

If you can answer those two questions, allow me to support my argument before you plug your ears and run off. If this directly challenges your beliefs and that scares you, it would be good for you to face the opposition for a change.

I will begin with the Old Testament. Arguably, Christians ignore the Old Testament. I find this ironic for many reasons. They not only uphold the Ten Commandments, but the very foundation for the belief occurred in the Old Testament. It is in plain view that Christians are willing to cherry pick their way through the passages of the Bible. The fallacy in doing that, however, is that it leaves the entirety of the belief open to personal interpretation. What kind of word of God is that? That being said, if you do not believe in the Old Testament laws about sexism, you'd best throw the Ten Commandments out the window.

The Old Testament

Quote:
Genesis 3:16

16. Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
So despite the fact that both the man and the woman are guilty of the same sin, the woman is the most severely punished for it? How is this justified when God allegedly loves everyone fairly? It would be the same as a modern judge claiming, "Both the man and the woman are guilty of murder. The man must pay with 48 hours of community service. The woman will be put to death."

Arguably she is punished more severely because she was the first who ate the Fruit of Knowledge. Why, however, was she the one who supposedly ate it first? Unless you believe that the story of Genesis really happened (it didn't), there is no reason to view this any more than a sexist fable.


Quote:
Leviticus 12:2 *

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean.

Leviticus 12:5

5 But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days.
This utterly despicable quote refers to something that a woman cannot help. The most sickening truth about this quotation is the punishment for having a period. A woman must avoid contact with men until she is "pure", which is not the worst of it. Violation of this mandate is death. Have fun, ladies.

Quote:
Job 25:4 *

4 How then can man be justified with God? or, how can he be clean [that is] born of a woman?
So any man born of a woman is unclean? What the hell?

These are a minuscule amount found in the Old Testament. I will move on to the New Testament for more practical reasons (Christianity brags that it focuses on the New Testament). People who claim the Old Testament was made void by Jesus' new covenant are wrong.

The New Testament

Quote:
1 Peter 3:1 -3

1. Likewise, ye wives, [be] in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;
2 While they behold your chaste conversation [coupled] with fear.
3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward [adorning] of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
How is this mandate any different from the wearing of burkas by Muslim Arab women? How is this justified? Why cannot women not disobey the law of man, for what if it is unjust? Despicable.

Quote:
1 Peter 3:5 -7*

5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
6 Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement.
7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with [them] according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
Again, why must women remain in subjection to their husbands?

Quote:
1 Corinthians 11:14 *

14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
Hmmm....

Spoiler:


Da faq?

Quote:
1 Corinthians 11:7 - 9*

7 For a man indeed ought not to cover [his] head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
8 For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

1 Corinthians 14:34 - 35*

34. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Really? Why is it that women would ever subject themselves to a religion that says such things about their own gender.

Quote:
Timothy 2:11-13

1 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve.
If you do not support these passages, why support the Bible? What gives you the right to pick and choose what to follow from the word of God? Even according to the Bible, you never have a right to choose much of anything. Feminists who persist in their Christianity keep on talking, but make no sense at all. The reality of the situation is evident, and the disgust I have for this truth is immense. If you want to remain as a credible feminist, or for anyone to take you seriously as such, stop your belief in Abrahamic religions.

Try deism. You can believe and God, and not be discriminated against. Have fun, ladies.

Here are some citations for you. The bottom two are videos for those who don't like reading extensive articles.

Citations

www.Bible Gateway.com
www.atheistfoundation.org
www.godlesshaven.com
[VIDEO] Skeptic Bible Study: Sexism in the Bible - DeistPaladin (Male Perspective)
[VIDEO] Blatant Sexism in the Bible - FearBlandness (Female Perspective)
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  #2  
Old 08-03-2012, 11:46 PM
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Default Re: Christian Feminists? Oh, the irony.

Just saying, these are all out of context. The first:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis 3:17-19
To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’

“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.”
Adam got punished severely too. Have you ever tried farming? Especially without technology?

Leviticus had lots of laws regarding cleanliness (not just confined to women... men had a lot to follow too, many also regarding their own bodily functions). The main thing to remember is this is in regard to the Levites (aka God's high priests).

The verse in Job? Where the frell else would a person come from? It's poetic license.

The 1 Peter verses? I like how you conveniently skipped 1 Peter 3:4 (I actually had the basis of this inscribed on a bracelet for my girlfriend)
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1 Peter 3:4
You should clothe yourselves instead with the beauty that comes from within, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is so precious to God.
Further more, all the rest are in regards to Church settings back when women still remained uneducated. The reason for wanting them to be quiet? Men and women were seated on opposite sides of the room to each other. If a woman had a question to ask her husband, she'd have to shout it across the room.

All of the NT verses you picked were actually written for specific European Churches. Many of them had a skewed view of their teachings from their previous entanglements from other religions (mostly Greek and Pagan). These letters were written to them as a way of encouraging and keeping them on the right track.

It's funny how you instruct Christians not to pick and choose what to follow, but you're allowed to pick and choose things out of context...
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  #3  
Old 08-04-2012, 12:58 AM
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Default Re: Christian Feminists? Oh, the irony.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh View Post
Adam got punished severely too. Have you ever tried farming? Especially without technology?
Eh, just popping in to say that nowadays we DO have technology, and what are women left with? Painful conception vs. farmers with technology. Sure, farming is hard, but it's just a lot of work and sweat. Unless you're rich and you can own a farm but pay others to do it for you. While women are forced to push what feels like spiked watermelons from their womb no matter what. Even if you get a C-section, you're still left with quite a scar, but that doesn't excuse the fact that not everyone gets one.

Other than that, I'm abstaining from commenting on the matter. Simply wished to point that out. Toodles~
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  #4  
Old 08-04-2012, 11:57 AM
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Default Re: Christian Feminists? Oh, the irony.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh View Post
Just saying, these are all out of context. The first:


Adam got punished severely too. Have you ever tried farming? Especially without technology?
Really? So you have given birth to a child and remained in total submission to your husband? Especially without technology? Consider that, during the ages in which the Bible was practiced in a literal fashion, that women had to give birth to about ten children in order for two or three to survive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh View Post
Leviticus had lots of laws regarding cleanliness (not just confined to women... men had a lot to follow too, many also regarding their own bodily functions). The main thing to remember is this is in regard to the Levites (aka God's high priests).
This eliminates a sexist element how?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh View Post
The verse in Job? Where the frell else would a person come from? It's poetic license.
How exactly can you assert that there is a poetic element to this verse?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh View Post
The 1 Peter verses? I like how you conveniently skipped 1 Peter 3:4 (I actually had the basis of this inscribed on a bracelet for my girlfriend)
Hm? Okay? This does not eliminate a sexist element. It is the same as saying, "You can't wear this because it would make you ugly, but we can." Who are you to tell a woman what to wear?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh View Post
Further more, all the rest are in regards to Church settings back when women still remained uneducated. The reason for wanting them to be quiet? Men and women were seated on opposite sides of the room to each other. If a woman had a question to ask her husband, she'd have to shout it across the room.
Why does it not address men yelling across the room? Yet again, this does not remove any sexist element whatsoever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh View Post
All of the NT verses you picked were actually written for specific European Churches. Many of them had a skewed view of their teachings from their previous entanglements from other religions (mostly Greek and Pagan). These letters were written to them as a way of encouraging and keeping them on the right track.
How does this remove a sexist element?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh View Post
It's funny how you instruct Christians not to pick and choose what to follow, but you're allowed to pick and choose things out of context...
It is funny how you can worship the Bible, claiming it condemns homosexual acts and that it is moral to follow the Ten Commandments, but you do not stone your disobedient children, rape your enemies, and maintain slaves.
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Old 08-04-2012, 01:38 PM
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Default Re: Christian Feminists? Oh, the irony.

All right, I can't keep my nose out of this after all, I guess. Just want you to know that the law is not as active/needful today as you believe. Many people/churches were repeatedly called out because they were mixing old traditions with the faith, as if the latter weren't enough to save them. Once upon a time people needed sacrifices of bulls and lambs to atone for their sins before God, but then when Jesus happened.

Quote:
"But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." - Romans 7:6
Quote:
"To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law." - Romans 9:31
(This one is a little less obvious; Paul is basically referring to how he is not under the law because he is saved in Christ; the same is true of all believers)

Quote:
"We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified." - Galatians 2:15-16
Quote:
"Before the coming of this faith, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian." - Galatians 3:23-25
Quote:
"You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace." - Galatians 5:4
Quote:
"The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins." - Hebrews 10:1-3
Most of the laws concerned making certain sacrifices considering certain sins, but when Jesus came his sacrifice was meant to cover all sins - not by works, which is what is involved in the law, but by faith. If you don't believe me, read Galatians because it obviously has a lot to say on the matter. The law is no longer necessary for salvation; Jesus, however, is.
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Old 08-04-2012, 04:23 PM
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Default Re: Christian Feminists? Oh, the irony.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
All right, I can't keep my nose out of this after all, I guess. Just want you to know that the law is not as active/needful today as you believe. Many people/churches were repeatedly called out because they were mixing old traditions with the faith, as if the latter weren't enough to save them. Once upon a time people needed sacrifices of bulls and lambs to atone for their sins before God, but then when Jesus happened.
That is not true at all.

Quote:
Matthew 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
And even if it did mean that the old laws were destroyed, how do you justify the Christian belief in the Ten Commandments, or the lack of acceptance for homosexuals? That is what cherry-picking is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
Most of the laws concerned making certain sacrifices considering certain sins, but when Jesus came his sacrifice was meant to cover all sins - not by works, which is what is involved in the law, but by faith. If you don't believe me, read Galatians because it obviously has a lot to say on the matter. The law is no longer necessary for salvation; Jesus, however, is.
And this justifies the passages in the Bible how? This justifies current bigotry within religion how? This only makes the case worse, even if the idea that the original covenant was made void is true by Biblical standards.

And if faith is all you need, it can be an easy justification for committing acts of evil under God's name. As long as you truly believe, you are fine. This is an incredibly immoral view.
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Old 08-04-2012, 05:12 PM
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Default Re: Christian Feminists? Oh, the irony.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddiursa of the Sky View Post
That is not true at all.
Oh, really? It's not true that one doesn't need the law to be saved?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddiursa of the Sky View Post
And even if it did mean that the old laws were destroyed, how do you justify the Christian belief in the Ten Commandments, or the lack of acceptance for homosexuals? That is what cherry-picking is.
The laws weren't destroyed, there's the thing. Can't believe I didn't bring this one into the discussion before, but here you go:

Quote:
"We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers–and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine." -1 Timothy 1:10, NIV
Not made for the righteous. Christians are made righteous through faith in Christ; therefore, the law is not made for believers, who do not need it to be pure seeing as they've already been made pure through Christ's sacrifice.

The Ten Commandments are separate from the Old Testament law. God wrote the commandments with his own hand, while Moses - guided by God - wrote the Mosaic law. Homosexuality is another can of worms entirely. Homosexuality is denounced as a sin repeatedly in the New Testament as well as the Old Testament. It's still a perversion of the marriage guidelines God himself laid down for mankind. That's not to say I'm going to go beat up/ridicule a homosexual, because the Bible calls believers to show mercy and compassion to all, believers or nonbelievers, saved or sinners.

As for cherrypicking... Methinks the pot is calling the kettle black in this scenario.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddiursa of the Sky View Post
And this justifies the passages in the Bible how? This justifies current bigotry within religion how? This only makes the case worse, even if the idea that the original covenant was made void is true by Biblical standards.
You want an honest answer? It doesn't. I never set out to justify anything, just to point out several passages that clearly state that following the Old Testament law will not get you saved.

But do you want to know something else? Nothing, and I repeat, nothing justifies bigotry within modern Christianity. Christians are called to love and show compassion and mercy to all, like God shows mercy to those who sin against him. The fact that 'believers' shun or hate anyone made in the image of God is a flaw within their hearts, not with the Bible or with God. I don't have any problem with homosexuals, frankly; one of the people I talked to most last school year was a homosexual. If I know a homosexual I'll tell them that the Bible says their behavior is sinful, sure, but it's up to God to judge. Not me. Or you. Or my grandma. Or your cat. See my point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddiursa of the Sky View Post
And if faith is all you need, it can be an easy justification for committing acts of evil under God's name. As long as you truly believe, you are fine. This is an incredibly immoral view.
I hold to the belief that no-one who is truly saved and knows the unconditional love of God would deliberately commit an act of evil.
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Old 08-04-2012, 05:56 PM
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Default Re: Christian Feminists? Oh, the irony.

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Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
Oh, really? It's not true that one doesn't need the law to be saved?
That is assuming that you can be saved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
The laws weren't destroyed, there's the thing. Can't believe I didn't bring this one into the discussion before, but here you go:

Not made for the righteous. Christians are made righteous through faith in Christ; therefore, the law is not made for believers, who do not need it to be pure seeing as they've already been made pure through Christ's sacrifice.
I fail to see how this belief can ever be considered moral.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
The Ten Commandments are separate from the Old Testament law. God wrote the commandments with his own hand, while Moses - guided by God - wrote the Mosaic law. Homosexuality is another can of worms entirely. Homosexuality is denounced as a sin repeatedly in the New Testament as well as the Old Testament. It's still a perversion of the marriage guidelines God himself laid down for mankind. That's not to say I'm going to go beat up/ridicule a homosexual, because the Bible calls believers to show mercy and compassion to all, believers or nonbelievers, saved or sinners.
It is a poor argument to say that the Ten Commandments are not to be thrown aside along with the Old Testament covenant.

None of the four gospels mentions the subject. This means that, so far as we know, Jesus never spoke about homosexuality, and we simply have no way of determining what his attitude toward it might have been. Moreover, there is nothing about homosexuality in the Book of Acts, in Hebrews, in Revelation, or in the letters attributed to James, Peter, John, and Jude. Further, homosexuality is not mentioned in ten of the thirteen letters attributed to Paul. It is only in Romans 1:26–27, 1 Corinthians 6:9–10, and 1 Timothy 1:8–11 that there may be references to homosexuality.The paucity of references to homosexuality in the New Testament suggests that it was not a matter of major concern either for Jesus or for the early Christian movement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
As for cherrypicking... Methinks the pot is calling the kettle black in this scenario.
Again, not at all. I am quoting these directly, and am confused as to how one can justify being a "good" person when these verses are in here. It does not matter if there are "good" quotes or verses from the Bible, since there are already negatives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
You want an honest answer? It doesn't. I never set out to justify anything, just to point out several passages that clearly state that following the Old Testament law will not get you saved.
Alright. What about the sexist statements in the New Testament? Is there a way to justify any of these?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
But do you want to know something else? Nothing, and I repeat, nothing justifies bigotry within modern Christianity. Christians are called to love and show compassion and mercy to all, like God shows mercy to those who sin against him. The fact that 'believers' shun or hate anyone made in the image of God is a flaw within their hearts, not with the Bible or with God. I don't have any problem with homosexuals, frankly; one of the people I talked to most last school year was a homosexual. If I know a homosexual I'll tell them that the Bible says their behavior is sinful, sure, but it's up to God to judge. Not me. Or you. Or my grandma. Or your cat. See my point?
I wish I could believe that the Abrahamic God was a God of love and mercy, but the entire Bible suggests otherwise. Hell, reality indicates otherwise, but that is another matter that will not derail this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
I hold to the belief that no-one who is truly saved and knows the unconditional love of God would deliberately commit an act of evil.
What if they truly belief what they are doing is God's will?
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Old 08-04-2012, 07:04 PM
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Default Re: Christian Feminists? Oh, the irony.

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Originally Posted by Teddiursa of the Sky View Post
I fail to see how this belief can ever be considered moral.
I fail to see how you fail to see. The only thing one needs to be saved is faith - like you said, you have to assume you can be saved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddiursa of the Sky View Post
It is a poor argument to say that the Ten Commandments are not to be thrown aside along with the Old Testament covenant.

None of the four gospels mentions the subject. This means that, so far as we know, Jesus never spoke about homosexuality, and we simply have no way of determining what his attitude toward it might have been. Moreover, there is nothing about homosexuality in the Book of Acts, in Hebrews, in Revelation, or in the letters attributed to James, Peter, John, and Jude. Further, homosexuality is not mentioned in ten of the thirteen letters attributed to Paul. It is only in Romans 1:26–27, 1 Corinthians 6:9–10, and 1 Timothy 1:8–11 that there may be references to homosexuality.The paucity of references to homosexuality in the New Testament suggests that it was not a matter of major concern either for Jesus or for the early Christian movement.
It may look like a poor argument, but it's true. The commandments were/are separate from the Old Testament covenant, and would thus have to be tossed separately if at all.

That is true, and homosexuality, so far as I know, was not nearly so prevalent back then as today; compared with the state of one's eternal future it would likely have then seemed less important to teach the people. But you're forgetting that while condemnation of homosexuals is not written all over the bible, the proper marriage format is. One man and one woman, simple and pure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddiursa of the Sky View Post
Again, not at all. I am quoting these directly, and am confused as to how one can justify being a "good" person when these verses are in here. It does not matter if there are "good" quotes or verses from the Bible, since there are already negatives.
But you are not using the similar passages that balance responsibilities between the woman and the man. Anyway, you're forgetting that according to the Bible, God made the world and is sovereign. Whoever's in charge - i.e. God - gets to define good. Something that seems perfectly acceptable to the world may be a sin. Christians are, like it or not, called to a higher standard than the world, which is corrupted by sin. But this goes into the whole 'sovereign God' debate, and that could drag on for days and days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddiursa of the Sky View Post
Alright. What about the sexist statements in the New Testament? Is there a way to justify any of these?
First of all, the man is called to be the spiritual leader. Flat out. A woman is supposed to submit to him, but not, I think, in the way that you suppose. It does not give a man the right to make a slave out of his wife. The man has responsibilities to the woman as well.
Quote:
"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself." - Ephesians 5:22-28
A husband is supposed to love his wife, and let's state the biblical implications of love...
Quote:
"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres." - 1 Corinthians 13:4-7
A husband who loves his wife in the true and proper way will not be self-seeking. He will be loving, giving, and protecting to his wife, and will treat her well. The man and woman have different roles. The woman is the supporter, the man the protector. Maybe this seems sexist, but that's the way it is. I'm not sure I can prove to you that genders are 'equal' according to the bible. They are supposed to be complements to each other, rather than the same. But both genders have a crucial role to play in the body of Christ, and that's good enough for me at least.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddiursa of the Sky View Post
I wish I could believe that the Abrahamic God was a God of love and mercy, but the entire Bible suggests otherwise. Hell, reality indicates otherwise, but that is another matter that will not derail this thread.
You forget that this selfsame God is also stated to be just.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teddiursa of the Sky View Post
What if they truly belief what they are doing is God's will?
Hmm... That one I'm not entirely sure of, to be honest. That's an interesting topic. If what that person is doing does not contradict the Bible, then who knows? Going so far as to kill somebody in God's name, though, is just foolish. 'Thou shalt not kill' is in the Ten Commandments for a reason.
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  #10  
Old 08-04-2012, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: Christian Feminists? Oh, the irony.

*Sits back and eats popcorn*

I'm a female atheist who grew up in a Roman Catholic family.
I don't just have problems with Christianity; I have problems with most organized religions, and the way women are treated are one of the biggest things I have a problem with.

It's good to see how people are perceiving both sides of the argument here.
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  #11  
Old 08-04-2012, 08:21 PM
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Default Re: Christian Feminists? Oh, the irony.

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Originally Posted by mintjelly View Post
*Sits back and eats popcorn*
XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

I used to be a Christian, but then I started to research atheism and non-religions, and I am now a Deist. I have come up with one of two solutions.
  • There is a god, but however it is not interested in earthly affairs. (Doesn't care about earth, the people/animals etc on it).
  • There is no god at all.

The only argument I'll ever need is the problem of evil.

"God" is supposedly omnipotent and omnibenevolent. The evil in this world is not beneficial to the people/creatures on it. Therefore, "God" would have not created evil, and made the earth a living "heaven". Giving everyone anything they wanted, never getting hurt... yeah. Since this has not happened, either "God" can't do this, which isn't omnipotent, or won't do this, which isn't omnibenevolent.

I know someone will just have to bring up "Satan" here, so I will address that now. "Satan" supposedly creates evil. If "God" was omnibenevolent, he would stop this evil instantly.

You might say, "But, 'God' is in war with 'Satan' for man's souls." and what not. If "God" was omnipotent, he would've been able to take over "Satan" easily and there would've been no such thing as evil.

This very picture changed my religion and train of thought for religion.



I hope I don't come across in a bad way. I'm not trying to mock or change anyone's religious views. This is my opinion and you can either agree or disagree with it.
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  #12  
Old 08-04-2012, 10:07 PM
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Default Re: Christian Feminists? Oh, the irony.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Typhlosion Explosion View Post
XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

I used to be a Christian, but then I started to research atheism and non-religions, and I am now a Deist. I have come up with one of two solutions.
  • There is a god, but however it is not interested in earthly affairs. (Doesn't care about earth, the people/animals etc on it).
  • There is no god at all.

The only argument I'll ever need is the problem of evil.

"God" is supposedly omnipotent and omnibenevolent. The evil in this world is not beneficial to the people/creatures on it. Therefore, "God" would have not created evil, and made the earth a living "heaven". Giving everyone anything they wanted, never getting hurt... yeah. Since this has not happened, either "God" can't do this, which isn't omnipotent, or won't do this, which isn't omnibenevolent.

I know someone will just have to bring up "Satan" here, so I will address that now. "Satan" supposedly creates evil. If "God" was omnibenevolent, he would stop this evil instantly.

You might say, "But, 'God' is in war with 'Satan' for man's souls." and what not. If "God" was omnipotent, he would've been able to take over "Satan" easily and there would've been no such thing as evil.

This very picture changed my religion and train of thought for religion.



I hope I don't come across in a bad way. I'm not trying to mock or change anyone's religious views. This is my opinion and you can either agree or disagree with it.
I really now officially have nothing more to say than this for the time being. XDD /bookmarks that image for later use.

-makes some popcorn as well and sits down beside mint-
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Quote:
[12:38:59 AM] GallantlyGlaceon: ...So how do we do this? XD
[12:39:20 AM] Sight of the Stars: it's nothing really big, just usually a note in your sig that's all like 'paired with soandso'
[12:39:44 AM] Sight of the Stars: just be like "SIGHT OF THE STARZ IS MAH BIZNITCH"
[12:39:57 AM] GallantlyGlaceon: XDDD
[12:39:59 AM] Sight of the Stars: and I'll be like "GALLANTLYGLACEON IS MAH HOE."
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  #13  
Old 08-04-2012, 10:56 PM
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Default Re: Christian Feminists? Oh, the irony.

Since about everyone of my friends on FB are Christians, I should post this and ask them to explain it. XDD I'll be like,

"Any of my friends who consider themselves a strong agnostic Christian, please describe the following photo. AND FOR THE LOVE OF JOHN TRAVOLTA, PLEASE DON'T SHOVE YOUR RELIGION DOWN MY THROAT." I know some Christians, if they found out I wasn't, "YOU'RE NOT? YOU'LL GO TO HELL!! WE'RE NO LONGER FRIENDS AND DON'T EVEN TALK TO ME." It seriously bothers me when people try to shove religion down your throat. Religion is a choice and a right, and no mater what, no one should slander anyone's religion. I know a lot of so called "Christians" who smoke and drink and cuss, and they're about the same age as I am. Maybe a few years older. You can't really say, "Well that darned atheist, he's doing good things and helping puppies and all this other Christian stuff." XD

I do that stuff anyways. ;p It just really bothers me when people say other religions are wrong or stupid. It's basically asking to get hit, or begging for an argue. Don;t get me wrong, a good argue is fun (right? XD), but you just can't say/do stuff like that.
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  #14  
Old 08-04-2012, 11:33 PM
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Default Re: Christian Feminists? Oh, the irony.

I'm not big on religion. At all. Too many problems with it and idiots connected to it. ...And arguments like this. It's nice to think there's some higher power out there that cares about everyone and all, but there's too much other crap connected to religion in general for me to be actively interested in it.

HOWEVER, Ty, might I share something I was told by the nice Jehovah's witness lady who would visit my family for an hour or so every Wednesday for the past year and talk about the Bible with us? You talked about the whole thing with why God hasn't stopped Satan from creating evil--what she told us was this: God didn't stomp out Satan or the evil created by him because Satan thought he was better than God, and God is allowing Satan to create evil on Earth "for now" so that he can prove to all that Satan is not a better ruler, and will "soon" eliminate Satan's evil and make Earth a paradise, "as it was meant to be." As nice as this all sounds, I'm not firmly convinced this is true, but I thought I'd just share a different answer to that with you.
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  #15  
Old 08-05-2012, 03:14 AM
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Default Re: Christian Feminists? Oh, the irony.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post
I'm not big on religion. At all. Too many problems with it and idiots connected to it. ...And arguments like this. It's nice to think there's some higher power out there that cares about everyone and all, but there's too much other crap connected to religion in general for me to be actively interested in it.

HOWEVER, Ty, might I share something I was told by the nice Jehovah's witness lady who would visit my family for an hour or so every Wednesday for the past year and talk about the Bible with us? You talked about the whole thing with why God hasn't stopped Satan from creating evil--what she told us was this: God didn't stomp out Satan or the evil created by him because Satan thought he was better than God, and God is allowing Satan to create evil on Earth "for now" so that he can prove to all that Satan is not a better ruler, and will "soon" eliminate Satan's evil and make Earth a paradise, "as it was meant to be." As nice as this all sounds, I'm not firmly convinced this is true, but I thought I'd just share a different answer to that with you.
Then hopefully homosexuality isn't considered evil or I'm screwed.

EDIT: Will this paradise include a way for gay people to reproduce? If so, sign me up.
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Quote:
[12:38:59 AM] GallantlyGlaceon: ...So how do we do this? XD
[12:39:20 AM] Sight of the Stars: it's nothing really big, just usually a note in your sig that's all like 'paired with soandso'
[12:39:44 AM] Sight of the Stars: just be like "SIGHT OF THE STARZ IS MAH BIZNITCH"
[12:39:57 AM] GallantlyGlaceon: XDDD
[12:39:59 AM] Sight of the Stars: and I'll be like "GALLANTLYGLACEON IS MAH HOE."
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