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Pokemon: Black/White Discuss the game: Pokemon Black and Pokemon White. Ask/Answer questions and discussions about Pokemon Black/White only.


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  #1  
Old 12-21-2011, 12:39 PM
Swampert Guy Offline
 
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Talking Surf or Hydro Pump?

HP is got just 5 PP, it won't last long, but it's a very powerful move as long as Surf, although slightly weaker, is a more-granted hit and can be used a couple of times.

I personally prefer Surf through the game because it will last more and prevents me to go into a Pokemon Center all the time, but Hydro Pump seems a better option in linked battles and in battle towers if the team is healed after each battle.


Last edited by Swampert Guy; 12-21-2011 at 12:41 PM.
  #2  
Old 12-21-2011, 01:53 PM
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Default Re: Surf or Hydro Pump?

It's all about accuracy vs power. I almost always side with accuracy, so I fancy the move Surf.
  #3  
Old 12-21-2011, 07:55 PM
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Default Re: Surf or Hydro Pump?

Gotta go with surf its way more clucth then hydro pump for hydro pump you gotta hope it hits to be honest.
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Old 12-21-2011, 08:22 PM
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Default Re: Surf or Hydro Pump?

Or you know, just do what I do. Teach Blastoise both Surf and Hydro Pump, use PP max on both moves, and then laugh hysterically as you destroy your opponents.
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  #5  
Old 12-21-2011, 11:42 PM
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Default Re: Surf or Hydro Pump?

I dislike moves such as thunder, fire blast and hydro pump, because they always miss for me! Dx And that's so annoying that I'd prefer a less powerful move that has full accuracy. However, Ant has a point!

~GS.
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  #6  
Old 12-22-2011, 12:07 AM
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Default Re: Surf or Hydro Pump?

http://www.math.miami.edu/~jam/azure...comp/water.htm This has a really good analysis on the two attacks. If you're going competitive, then nix both of them and use Scald. But, it's your call.

~Petra
  #7  
Old 12-22-2011, 05:32 AM
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Default Re: Surf or Hydro Pump?

Hydro Pump has an 80% chance to hit for 120 base power.
So basically, 80% chance of base power of 120, and 20% chance of base power of, effectively, 0.

.8 * 120 + .2 * 0 = 96

Surf has a 100% chance to hit for 95 base power.

1.0 * 95 = 95 (obviously)

(bear in mind that for thunder and blizzard outside of rain and hail respectively, this actually gives thunderbolt and ice beam MORE average damage, because blizz/thunder's base accuracies are only 70%)

Over a long period of time, Hydro Pump will average out to a base power of.. effectively one higher than Surf. It could get some OHKOs or 2HKOs that Surf will not get and it also has a chance to miss, allowing something to kill you that shouldn't have. In addition, Surf has much better PP and especially on tanky Pokemon that will survive for longer than 5 turns, this is a big deal. Many Water-type Pokemon are bulky such as Blastoise, Swampert, Jellicent, Milotic, etc. and those should run Surf or Scald.

Scald is a good option for the aforementioned tanky Pokemon, however you do get a significant drop in power from that, which is made only bigger by the STAB multiplier. In addition, if you have other status on your team, the chance to burn could be at best, nonexistent because the Pokemon is already statused, and at worst, prevent your strategy from working correctly. You also run the chance of burning something that enjoys being burned, such as Magic Guard Pokemon (having a burn prevents them from being statused in any other way, doesn't hurt them, and most Magic Guard mons don't care about attack drop) or Guts mons. Scald is very ineffective on Pokemon that are not going to live very long, because you need to attack with it several times to have a good chance of burning. I.e., shell break Omastar should not even consider Scald.

Hydro Pump is a good option SOMETIMES. It's a good option on fragile, hyper-offensive Pokemon that will likely not live very long, or Pokemon that are absurdly boosted in hopes of getting OHKOs, such as a situation where you're wearing Choice Specs and in the rain with max special attack.

In some situations it gets some notable OHKO or 2HKO chances that Surf doesn't have. I believe for example that Choice Specs Starmie can not usually OHKO Tyranitar with Surf, but with Hydro Pump, it can. Of course you must also weigh that against the fact that it has a 20% chance to do absolutely nothing when you Hydro Pump. The cost of a turn is very large. It takes one turn for many Pokemon to set up. It takes one turn to take a fatal attack. It takes one turn to give a free switch in to something. Gotta keep that in mind.
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Last edited by Tasteless; 12-22-2011 at 05:35 AM.
  #8  
Old 12-22-2011, 05:42 PM
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Default Re: Surf or Hydro Pump?

Surf is the more practical choice in-game, because not only can you use it as a HM on an essential Water-type team member (very convenient, trust me), you have more PP as a Water attack. In-game battles aren't normally ridden with Pokemon who are EV-trained, so you can normally use Surf to take them out, especially those that are weak since this move has a lot of power and always hit. Hydro Pump is not as practical, because it is not as accurate and 5PP isn't very conducive in-game, even with PP Ups, since you need to restock your PP in the most inconvenient ways. However, Hydro Pump is better in player VS player battles because it puts offensive pressure on the opponent, so it's not surprising to see opponents like Starmie and Kingdra prefer this move, especially on a Rain team.

Thanks for reading.
  #9  
Old 12-24-2011, 11:44 AM
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Default Re: Surf or Hydro Pump?

I'll make a simple comparison between both moves:

If you use: Hydro Pump, Hydro Pump, Hydro Pump

is slightly the same as

if you use: Rain Dance, Surf, Surf

Yes, Rain Dance + Hydro Pump overcome both strages above, but if Hydro Pump fails you'll lose two turns, though.

If it's raining, so Surf power base will boost up to 142.5 (95 * 1.5)
  #10  
Old 01-03-2012, 11:49 AM
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Smile Re: Surf or Hydro Pump?

Surf. More accurate than hydro pump which has been said a couple of times already.
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  #11  
Old 01-10-2012, 02:21 PM
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Thumbs up Re: Surf or Hydro Pump?

Surf wins.

I declare the thread is closed!
  #12  
Old 01-10-2012, 04:27 PM
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Default Re: Surf or Hydro Pump?

this a very random thread. So before i lock it. I will say. Scald is a better option then both of those moves.
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