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  #76  
Old 07-22-2011, 01:59 AM
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Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

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Originally Posted by Lord Fedora View Post
If God does not exist, I must assume that organic material randomly formed together some billions of years ago into the first life form through means that we don't even know of.
If God does not exist, I must assume that life carried along the evolutionary path that it did without any form of guidance, resulting in the biological makeup of the earth as it is today, including humanity exactly as we are.
If God does not exist, I must assume that there somehow, incomprehensibly, the universe binds itself to the strict and rigid set of rules commonly referred to as "physics," despite nothing actively enforcing that.
Wrong. None of these are assumptions. They are theories that follow as a result of assumptions made based on fundamental axioms of logic: that 1+1=2, that black is black and white is white, that if A is equal to B and B is equal to C then C is equal to A, etc. These are assumptions you must make in order to have a sane existence; you will be making these assumptions regardless of whether you assume God exists or not. Just because God exists does not mean science does not. Thus, God's existence is always an extra assumption.

Your post reveals a fundamental wrongness in the way you think of science, as a top-down process. Science is a bottom-up process that derives theories from natural observation and basic axiomatic principles. The ending theories are not assumed to be correct. They are thought to be correct because of centuries of painstaking observation, calculation, and experimentation. Science does not work by first coming up with a statement then finding ways to prove it, it works by finding proof then coming up with a statement that works with the proof. A lot of people (not necessarily you, just in general) don't understand that, and thus are confused and ignorant and don't believe in scientific theories that come as an inevitable conclusion from axiomatic statements.
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  #77  
Old 07-24-2011, 10:57 PM
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Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

Here. This man. Perrrrrfect sense. Enjoy!

Good points, funny presentation.
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  #78  
Old 07-25-2011, 12:11 AM
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Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

What is god?
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  #79  
Old 07-25-2011, 12:20 AM
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Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

He also failed to mention that religion, in general, is used to control a large group of people.
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  #80  
Old 07-25-2011, 05:34 AM
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Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

Yes, I do.
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  #81  
Old 07-25-2011, 09:15 AM
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Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

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Originally Posted by Pe2k Voices View Post
He also failed to mention that religion, in general, is used to control a large group of people.
You're thinking of cults.
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  #82  
Old 07-25-2011, 10:20 AM
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Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

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You're thinking of cults.
No, I am thinking of religion. All you have to do is look at history. Christianity was used to control people all the time.

Look at Muslims today. Religion controls everything they do, it is called a Theocracy. That is why the U.S government is secular, because if any religion gets control, all hell breaks lose.
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  #83  
Old 07-25-2011, 02:24 PM
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Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

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Originally Posted by Pe2k Voices View Post
No, I am thinking of religion. All you have to do is look at history. Christianity was used to control people all the time.

Look at Muslims today. Religion controls everything they do, it is called a Theocracy. That is why the U.S government is secular, because if any religion gets control, all hell breaks lose.
Though when you think about it, religion is one of the few things preventing the world from becoming completely westernized. Usually it's not a good thing since it produces a LOT of crazy radicals that go and kill a lot of people, but it is food for thought I guess. It does preserve a bit of culture. Killing people...

Also, I'd like to ask how is religion any different from a cult, in your own words. Other than the differences in the population of followers.

Also, I'd like to say that I've met a lot of really religious people who do well in school, and appear to be decently educated. It baffles me. How can this happen? Whenever I hear them talk about their religious views they sound so brainwashed and delusional, like they wouldn't be able to accept the idea that there is no god. Some of them even get offended when you start to talk about things like evolution, something that actually is making scientific advancements and has the potential to make your daily life better. Religion, on the other hand... the only good I can see it doing is creating a structured lifestyle in which the followers feel comfortable. But comfortable with what? Lies? It just doesn't make sense.
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  #84  
Old 07-25-2011, 02:49 PM
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Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

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Originally Posted by Psychedelic Shroomish View Post
Though when you think about it, religion is one of the few things preventing the world from becoming completely westernized. Usually it's not a good thing since it produces a LOT of crazy radicals that go and kill a lot of people, but it is food for thought I guess. It does preserve a bit of culture. Killing people...

Also, I'd like to ask how is religion any different from a cult, in your own words. Other than the differences in the population of followers.

Also, I'd like to say that I've met a lot of really religious people who do well in school, and appear to be decently educated. It baffles me. How can this happen? Whenever I hear them talk about their religious views they sound so brainwashed and delusional, like they wouldn't be able to accept the idea that there is no god. Some of them even get offended when you start to talk about things like evolution, something that actually is making scientific advancements and has the potential to make your daily life better. Religion, on the other hand... the only good I can see it doing is creating a structured lifestyle in which the followers feel comfortable. But comfortable with what? Lies? It just doesn't make sense.
There's nothing wrong with being westernized. Americanized, sure, but there's nothing wrong with Western civilization as a whole. I would venture to say that it's the superior way of thinking.

As for religious people being educated, it's what George Orwell referred to as "doublethink" -- the ability of the human mind to hold two contradictory ideas at the same time without acknowledging there is a contradiction. In short, they simply ignore the logical gaps involved in religion, thus making it seem like a seamless, logical whole. This process doesn't necessarily take place consciously so they don't realize it, and in fact, may refuse to realize it. There's also the sheer power of peer pressure and the comforting feeling of belonging to a group, which atheism does not bring.
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Dali: "I know what the picture should be ... We take a duck and put some dynamite in its derriere. When the duck explodes, I jump and you take the picture."
Halsman: "Don't forget that we are in America. We will be put in prison if we start exploding ducks."
Dali: "You're right. Let's take some cats and splash them with water."

Last edited by Lusankya; 07-25-2011 at 02:53 PM.
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  #85  
Old 07-25-2011, 02:51 PM
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Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

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Originally Posted by Psychedelic Shroomish View Post
Though when you think about it, religion is one of the few things preventing the world from becoming completely westernized. Usually it's not a good thing since it produces a LOT of crazy radicals that go and kill a lot of people, but it is food for thought I guess. It does preserve a bit of culture. Killing people...

Also, I'd like to ask how is religion any different from a cult, in your own words. Other than the differences in the population of followers.

Also, I'd like to say that I've met a lot of really religious people who do well in school, and appear to be decently educated. It baffles me. How can this happen? Whenever I hear them talk about their religious views they sound so brainwashed and delusional, like they wouldn't be able to accept the idea that there is no god. Some of them even get offended when you start to talk about things like evolution, something that actually is making scientific advancements and has the potential to make your daily life better. Religion, on the other hand... the only good I can see it doing is creating a structured lifestyle in which the followers feel comfortable. But comfortable with what? Lies? It just doesn't make sense.
You are saying willful ignorance preserves culture? You are saying it is worth killing people simply because they do not want to adopt Western customs? You sir, have a very f*cked up view of the world in that case.

Cults are militaristic, and once you join, you cannot leave. You can easily leave the Christian and Jewish faith, however, it is not as simple in the Muslim faith. In that aspect, Islam is more of a cult. Christianity and Judaism are not.

I am not saying there aren't smart Christians. There are plenty of them. However, as a whole, they tend to be blind. Some I have met on this forum, even.

It makes perfect sense. The need to be in a group, and that is what humans have always wanted. To feel accepted in at least a part of society.
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  #86  
Old 07-25-2011, 03:09 PM
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Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

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Originally Posted by Pe2k Voices View Post
You are saying willful ignorance preserves culture? You are saying it is worth killing people simply because they do not want to adopt Western customs? You sir, have a very f*cked up view of the world in that case.
I was being a little sarcastic with my first paragraph, I don't think crazed religious radicals are a good thing.
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  #87  
Old 07-25-2011, 03:14 PM
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Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

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Originally Posted by Pe2k Voices View Post
You are saying willful ignorance preserves culture? You are saying it is worth killing people simply because they do not want to adopt Western customs? You sir, have a very f*cked up view of the world in that case.

Cults are militaristic, and once you join, you cannot leave. You can easily leave the Christian and Jewish faith, however, it is not as simple in the Muslim faith. In that aspect, Islam is more of a cult. Christianity and Judaism are not.

I am not saying there aren't smart Christians. There are plenty of them. However, as a whole, they tend to be blind. Some I have met on this forum, even.

It makes perfect sense. The need to be in a group, and that is what humans have always wanted. To feel accepted in at least a part of society.
Definition of a cult.

There's really nothing in the definition of a cult being hard to leave. For example, there are Satan-worshiping groups that most people would call a "cult" but which aren't difficult to leave. Cults are simply small and sinister and devoted to worshiping some concept. Early Christianity would almost have certainly be considered to be a cult by the Jews had the word existed.
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Dali: "I know what the picture should be ... We take a duck and put some dynamite in its derriere. When the duck explodes, I jump and you take the picture."
Halsman: "Don't forget that we are in America. We will be put in prison if we start exploding ducks."
Dali: "You're right. Let's take some cats and splash them with water."
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  #88  
Old 07-25-2011, 08:32 PM
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Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

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Originally Posted by Josh View Post
You're thinking of cults.
Religion is just a cult that has been accepted by society.
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  #89  
Old 07-25-2011, 08:36 PM
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Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

Point taken.

The major problem I have with religion is that they think they should have a special place in society when they shouldn't.
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  #90  
Old 09-06-2011, 03:48 AM
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Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

tho only time i ever believed in the idea of God or Gods.. was in my youth when it was forced upon me.

I admit I used to pray for these or those people as most people who are forced to believe pray..
I found praying to be useless.
It was in high school that something happened and i looked inward and it felt like I always knew religion wasn't for me. No religion is for me and yes I looked around and read up on other religions.

Things happen and I dont believe in a satan nor do I believe in a jebus of jehova or alah or what have you..

I believe that if you believe those books your better off always being told what to do and how to do it.. because if YOU fail its easier to say it wasnt His will.. or God wanted it this way..

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