Member List
Calendar
F.A.Q.
Search
Log Out
Pokemon Forum - Pokemon Elite 2000  
 

Go Back   Pokemon Forum - Pokemon Elite 2000 » Other Boards » Discussion

Discussion This is for discussion about current events (news), issues, politics, and any other topics of serious discussion. For more casual talk, go to the Other Chat board. Proper sentences, spelling, and grammar is especially strict in this board.


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #196  
Old 09-27-2011, 02:36 PM
Teddiursa of the Sky's Avatar
Teddiursa of the Sky Offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Terseland.
Posts: 3,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Teddiursa of the Sky
Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamond1304 View Post
A) He did not know what was going to happen. Also, we didn't know what is going on in the heavens way before the universe was created. (Lucifer was banished before Earth was created, fyi) Also, he was more focused onto his creation and plan, if someone's gonna counter with him not knowing the future. Besides you can't assume that God sees the future, he has plans for each and every individual(that's what we Christians learn). Planning for the future isn't seeing the future.

You fail to realize that God is all-knowing, perfect, and omnipotent. He knew it was going to happen.

B) Why can't God have favourites? What's wrong with that? It's like asking why can't your parents love other children like how they love you? He may favour an angel more but that doesn't mean spoil him. That's why there's the heavenly hierarchy and all. Lucifer is described to be the most beautiful and talented archangel. We can also have a similar scenario whereby the top student in class is the teacher's pet and has good looks and popularity(I don't mean to say that the student is evil but I hope you get what I mean).

Picking a favorite is an imperfection. He says that he loves us all equally. There is no room for a "favorite."

C) Like I said in A, he did not that it was going to happen. Also, it's not like he intended to create an evil being. Lucifer turned evil, not made evil. Also, we don't know what God's plan is so we can't assume anything. Though it has been reveal a little amount through Christian authors who write books based on Judgement Day where God will reveal his plan to mankind, but of course we don't know whether they're for real(I read with a pinch of salt) and few people would read such books, therefore not much knowledge of God's plan. We also can't judge current situations and say that God is cruel. Who knows, his plan may be suffering for us in life, but perhaps peace and luxury later on?

Why are you treating God like a human when he quite obviously is not? Christianity outright preaches that God is omnipotent, all-knowing, perfect, and loving.


By help, do you mean parents doing it for us and teachers giving us the answers? And define horrible situations. If you mean sickness or sin, isn't it our doings? By living unhealthy and not taking care of our body, by engaging in immoral things, isn't that our fault? How is God to be blamed? If you mean like how Job was treated in the Bible, then it could be a test of endurance and your spirit and faith towards God. Honestly I've not gotten into any bad situations whereby I've the need to put it on God because they're all caused by me or I could've prevented it. Maybe someone else might have, but perhaps a bit of reflection and thinking back, you might find a way to have prevented it. Yes God said that, because he knows most people won't believe(for whatever reasons) in him. You can't go to heaven if you don't believe in God. I mean, it would quite rude to enter a house and pretend that the owner doesn't exist(especially since God's everywhere, ignoring him is like blasphemy).

No. By help I mean guidance. Parents should help us understand the homework, teachers help students understand the questions, God should help us understand him. He apparently thinks that humans should blindly put faith just because some random book says we should.

Again the word literally. It may have been written literally, but was not meant to. Besides, isn't everything written literally(in words)?

You fail to get the point. The Bible, as I have said, was written to be taken literally, and it was for almost two thousand years.

Also my friend and I thinks that we might have a somewhat okay explanation for Christians having difficulty knowing what to believe from the Bible. Let's see, the Bible was created many years ago(I don't know when) and now is 2011. Back then when the apostles wrote the Bible, there were no electricity, no plastic thing and it was totally different like now. The difference between now and eons ago is that there's more sin on the loose. Drugs, smoking, alcohols, addiction, sex, murder etc. There was also no science back then, perhaps the simplest type of science(biology with firsthand experience). That's why the Bible was so easy to believe then. Then we come to now, the Internet says this, society says this, who knows who says what etc. What was intended to be understood for people with little education was now confused and debated over. My friend and I thinks that if only Jesus Christ or God or any of the authors of the Bible were to time-travel to now, perhaps they could explain it to us in a better light. But for now we'll just have to wait for God to reveal all the answers to our questions, and that's most likely the End of the World.

You act as if society was not existent then (it was there, it has just evolved). The only reason people believed in the religions of the time was because they were kept ignorant and afraid literally all the time. As science has proven natural observations countless times, there have been more and more unbelievers. The number of atheists alone outranks Islam in numbers of CONFESSED believers. I can assure you that there are plenty of Christians who do not want to confess it for fear of losing loved ones (I shun you because you do not believe in Christ), plenty of Muslims that fear for their family and their own life, and the Jews who don't have much to worry about since they seem to be hated by everyone no matter what they do.

You are right, it was written during a different time. A time where it seemed perfectly logical to follow what it said literally. As the human mind evolves, so do religions and morals. This proves that religion is nothing but a man-made concept and man-made belief. Now, keep in mind, I am not saying that is proof God doesn't exist. I am simply saying that organized religions do not, at all, do what they are supposed to do.


*yawns* So tired, I should be writing my school essay, meh. XD
Go write your essay and get a good grade. xDDD
__________________
Latest Test/Work in Production:

Last edited by Teddiursa of the Sky; 09-27-2011 at 02:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #197  
Old 09-27-2011, 02:39 PM
Lusankya's Avatar
Lusankya Offline
Deus ex Crucio
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,687
Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

Pe2k Voice is right; any argument that involves something happening that God doesn't want is implying that there are limits to his power and knowledge. If he's really omniscient, he should already know everything that will ever happen (which also brings up the question of free will, but meh) and thus can never be surprised. Likewise, if he's really omnipotent, then there's nothing that can happen that he doesn't want. Satan can only exist because God doesn't want to get rid of him; after all, if God did want to get rid of Satan, it'd take less than a thought.
__________________

Art Gallery
Dali: "I know what the picture should be ... We take a duck and put some dynamite in its derriere. When the duck explodes, I jump and you take the picture."
Halsman: "Don't forget that we are in America. We will be put in prison if we start exploding ducks."
Dali: "You're right. Let's take some cats and splash them with water."
Reply With Quote
  #198  
Old 09-27-2011, 02:53 PM
Lord Fedora's Avatar
Lord Fedora Offline
ASB Official
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Y'all stay off my property!
Posts: 8,469
Send a message via AIM to Lord Fedora
Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

I love how you all seem to think you know better than an omniscient, perfect being about what's best for the world, and therefore assume it's cruel. It's like seeing a dog panic when he realizes that no, you're not taking him to the park, but to the vet. Yeah, there's probably going to be something painful or uncomfortable involved, but in the long run you know better than your dog, he'll be better for it.

I've gone through my share of crap in life. Not quite as much as others, but yeah, I have. And I pulled through it. And I'm a significantly better man because of it.
__________________
URPG/ASB Stats
98% of teens won't stand up for God. Repost this if you think that statistic is the most laughable thing ever.
My new AIM username is GrayFedora12. Do not respond or click on links from any IMs from LordKhajmer.
Reply With Quote
  #199  
Old 09-27-2011, 02:55 PM
Teddiursa of the Sky's Avatar
Teddiursa of the Sky Offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Terseland.
Posts: 3,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Teddiursa of the Sky
Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Fedora View Post
I love how you all seem to think you know better than an omniscient, perfect being about what's best for the world, and therefore assume it's cruel. It's like seeing a dog panic when he realizes that no, you're not taking him to the park, but to the vet. Yeah, there's probably going to be something painful or uncomfortable involved, but in the long run you know better than your dog, he'll be better for it.

I've gone through my share of crap in life. Not quite as much as others, but yeah, I have. And I pulled through it. And I'm a significantly better man because of it.
So you describe a thousand years of darkness, World War I, World War II, the Inquisition, Thirty Years War, Crusades, etc all for the best in the end? I think not.
__________________
Latest Test/Work in Production:
Reply With Quote
  #200  
Old 09-27-2011, 03:06 PM
Lord Fedora's Avatar
Lord Fedora Offline
ASB Official
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Y'all stay off my property!
Posts: 8,469
Send a message via AIM to Lord Fedora
Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pe2k Voices View Post
So you describe a thousand years of darkness, World War I, World War II, the Inquisition, Thirty Years War, Crusades, etc all for the best in the end? I think not.
If there was no God? Nope. If there were a cruel God? Most definitely not. A perfect, omniscient God who not only knows everything that will happen given the current path, but everything that could result from a different course, can see infinitely farther than all of us, and can take in every minor detail resulting from them? Yes. Humans are a different people for having gone through all that, and for all we know we're better people for it.
__________________
URPG/ASB Stats
98% of teens won't stand up for God. Repost this if you think that statistic is the most laughable thing ever.
My new AIM username is GrayFedora12. Do not respond or click on links from any IMs from LordKhajmer.
Reply With Quote
  #201  
Old 09-27-2011, 03:18 PM
Teddiursa of the Sky's Avatar
Teddiursa of the Sky Offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Terseland.
Posts: 3,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Teddiursa of the Sky
Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Fedora View Post
If there was no God? Nope. If there were a cruel God? Most definitely not. A perfect, omniscient God who not only knows everything that will happen given the current path, but everything that could result from a different course, can see infinitely farther than all of us, and can take in every minor detail resulting from them? Yes. Humans are a different people for having gone through all that, and for all we know we're better people for it.
Obviously not since such things still go on on a regular basis.
__________________
Latest Test/Work in Production:
Reply With Quote
  #202  
Old 09-27-2011, 06:04 PM
Lord Fedora's Avatar
Lord Fedora Offline
ASB Official
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Y'all stay off my property!
Posts: 8,469
Send a message via AIM to Lord Fedora
Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pe2k Voices View Post
Obviously not since such things still go on on a regular basis.
Get it through your head. It's not about the short term. And for the record, as far as God would be concerned several thousands of years would definitely be "short term." It's the long term, what benefits us in the bigger picture, and by bigger picture I of course mean "larger than any of us measly mortal beings could come within a fraction of comprehending."
__________________
URPG/ASB Stats
98% of teens won't stand up for God. Repost this if you think that statistic is the most laughable thing ever.
My new AIM username is GrayFedora12. Do not respond or click on links from any IMs from LordKhajmer.
Reply With Quote
  #203  
Old 09-27-2011, 06:11 PM
Serebiish's Avatar
Serebiish Offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Brazil
Posts: 514
Send a message via AIM to Serebiish
Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

Well,I do,I'm Christian,although I think some rules are just...
Reply With Quote
  #204  
Old 09-27-2011, 06:25 PM
Exon Auxus's Avatar
Exon Auxus Offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: No.
Posts: 6,079
Send a message via AIM to Exon Auxus
Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pe2k Voices View Post
@Exon Auxus: Explain Buddhists, Pagans, Humanists, and Hindus. They do not believe in your God.
Those factions couldn't have less to do with what I was talking about. I mentioned a possible cause for why some atheists(people who don't believe in the existence of gods or deities) and Christians have such conflicting views.

You could argue that Buddhists and Humanists don't believe in deities but that means nothing given that not all atheists fall into these categories. Also, Pagans and Hindus are not atheists because they believe in deities and supreme beings. So I'm struggling to understand how this has anything to do with anything.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #205  
Old 09-27-2011, 06:26 PM
Lusankya's Avatar
Lusankya Offline
Deus ex Crucio
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,687
Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Fedora View Post
I love how you all seem to think you know better than an omniscient, perfect being about what's best for the world, and therefore assume it's cruel. It's like seeing a dog panic when he realizes that no, you're not taking him to the park, but to the vet. Yeah, there's probably going to be something painful or uncomfortable involved, but in the long run you know better than your dog, he'll be better for it.

I've gone through my share of crap in life. Not quite as much as others, but yeah, I have. And I pulled through it. And I'm a significantly better man because of it.
Right, so, mind proving that the world is going to be better in the long run for it? "Take my word for it" isn't very convincing.
__________________

Art Gallery
Dali: "I know what the picture should be ... We take a duck and put some dynamite in its derriere. When the duck explodes, I jump and you take the picture."
Halsman: "Don't forget that we are in America. We will be put in prison if we start exploding ducks."
Dali: "You're right. Let's take some cats and splash them with water."

Last edited by Lusankya; 09-27-2011 at 06:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #206  
Old 09-27-2011, 07:19 PM
Orthar's Avatar
Orthar Offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Away from Crusties.
Posts: 5,506
Send a message via AIM to Orthar Send a message via MSN to Orthar Send a message via Skype™ to Orthar
Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Assaundrell Yumerai View Post
But I think it is also true that in accordance with the Revelation, the Judgment Day will come to end all the wickedness of this world.



That aside, where is your evidence to support such a claim? Why do you think that Revelation speaks the truth, is it simply because it is written in the Bible?

Last edited by Orthar; 09-27-2011 at 07:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #207  
Old 09-27-2011, 07:42 PM
Teddiursa of the Sky's Avatar
Teddiursa of the Sky Offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Terseland.
Posts: 3,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Teddiursa of the Sky
Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Fedora View Post
Get it through your head. It's not about the short term. And for the record, as far as God would be concerned several thousands of years would definitely be "short term." It's the long term, what benefits us in the bigger picture, and by bigger picture I of course mean "larger than any of us measly mortal beings could come within a fraction of comprehending."
First of all, what Lusankya said.

Second of all, get it through your head. If God is omnipotent and omniscient, stop acting like you understand what his "plans" are either. Also, if you are going to go by God's truth, I guess you had better start believing that the world is only 4000 years old.
__________________
Latest Test/Work in Production:

Last edited by Teddiursa of the Sky; 09-27-2011 at 07:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #208  
Old 09-27-2011, 07:47 PM
Lord Fedora's Avatar
Lord Fedora Offline
ASB Official
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Y'all stay off my property!
Posts: 8,469
Send a message via AIM to Lord Fedora
Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusankya View Post
Right, so, mind proving that the world is going to be better in the long run for it? "Take my word for it" isn't very convincing.
I never said the world necessarily was. I'm as much a small-minded mortal as you are, I can't comprehend that kind of big picture. I'm making the case that if there is some form of higher power, the fact that history is full of the world being crap doesn't necessarily make him/her/it/them either uncaring or cruel, because that higher power may easily have a greater purpose such that it will all turn out better in the end.
__________________
URPG/ASB Stats
98% of teens won't stand up for God. Repost this if you think that statistic is the most laughable thing ever.
My new AIM username is GrayFedora12. Do not respond or click on links from any IMs from LordKhajmer.
Reply With Quote
  #209  
Old 09-27-2011, 07:51 PM
Teddiursa of the Sky's Avatar
Teddiursa of the Sky Offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Terseland.
Posts: 3,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Teddiursa of the Sky
Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Fedora View Post
I never said the world necessarily was. I'm as much a small-minded mortal as you are, I can't comprehend that kind of big picture. I'm making the case that if there is some form of higher power, the fact that history is full of the world being crap doesn't necessarily make him/her/it/them either uncaring or cruel, because that higher power may easily have a greater purpose such that it will all turn out better in the end.
And then we have the other side in which God is not exactly the nice guy Christians make him out to be *rereads Levitcus, Job, Revelations, Paul's Letters for shitsandgiggles*.

You are also saying that God does not care if millions of innocent people had to die and suffer to make that happen.
__________________
Latest Test/Work in Production:
Reply With Quote
  #210  
Old 09-27-2011, 09:50 PM
Lusankya's Avatar
Lusankya Offline
Deus ex Crucio
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,687
Default Re: Do you believe in God etc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Fedora View Post
I never said the world necessarily was. I'm as much a small-minded mortal as you are, I can't comprehend that kind of big picture. I'm making the case that if there is some form of higher power, the fact that history is full of the world being crap doesn't necessarily make him/her/it/them either uncaring or cruel, because that higher power may easily have a greater purpose such that it will all turn out better in the end.
I find that to be a weak argument. First off, the fact is that if God is omnipotent and omniscient, whatever end he wants to achieve can be done in whatever way he wants to achieve. The fact that he chooses to achieve this end in a way that involves letting Satan run around and lots and lots of human suffering cannot be reconciled with the idea of a God that doesn't want Satan to run around or lots and lots of human suffering.

Personally, I am of the opinion that this whole "God is omnipotent" thing is something that evolved over time, whereas the ancients had a much more limited view of the world, and thus a much more limited view of God. Their idea of what "all-powerful" consisted of is much smaller than what our idea of "all-powerful" means. Same goes for all-knowing: God's portrayed as asking questions of Adam and Eve (meaning he doesn't know why they're acting weird after eating the Fruit), surprised that they would defy his commands (or why else would he punish them for doing something he knew they would do?), and admits to have made a mistake in creating mankind (Genesis 6:7). But, other than my personal interpretation, I do not have any evidence to back this up (seeing as how dissertations of what people thought "all-powerful" entailed 5000 years ago are rather rare today).
__________________

Art Gallery
Dali: "I know what the picture should be ... We take a duck and put some dynamite in its derriere. When the duck explodes, I jump and you take the picture."
Halsman: "Don't forget that we are in America. We will be put in prison if we start exploding ducks."
Dali: "You're right. Let's take some cats and splash them with water."
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Style Design: AlienSector.com