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Go Back   Pokemon Forum - Pokemon Elite 2000 » Intro Boards » PE2K Front Desk

PE2K Front Desk Forum announcements will be posted here. Any questions, suggestions or ideas concerning the forum or the website should also be posted in here. If you need help on your avatar or signature, or help on using the forum, this is the place to go.


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  #61  
Old 06-21-2011, 06:09 PM
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Default Re: PE2K Spring Cleaning

Now you're misunderstanding me. I didn't do everything I could have to try to save the section or try to boost activity, mainly because I didn't know that it was in danger of getting deleted. Also, I just started playing competitively a few months ago, and I just got used to the format a couple weeks ago. As a result of just starting to play myself, I didn't really think I was qualified to make any guides.

As for working with the GMods, I had no idea that anyone would take any suggestion on how to revamp the stickys. On most forums, threads don't get changed just because one person asks them to.

Anyway, getting away from the stupid argument. I'd be happy to at least attempt a Card of the Day sort of thing. I'd love for people to submit decks and have other talk about them. Heck, even a discussion about the mid-season rotation would have been good. If a few other people would want to help out (looking at you Jessu =D), I think we could actually get a semi-active TCG section going.


EDIT: On a different note, anyone else wondering about this
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With the new structure, if all four (and I do mean four, there is one RPG in development)[...]

Last edited by Spiderc; 06-21-2011 at 08:31 PM.
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  #62  
Old 06-21-2011, 07:05 PM
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Default Re: PE2K Spring Cleaning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Espeon Esper View Post

The majority of people who posted here are the minority of the people who use the RPGs. It is more logical to say that most of the people don't have a problem with this seeing as they haven't come here and commented about it, and that you're just the vocal minority. I propose that you create a poll in each of the RPGs, and the results of those will be used to determine whether it's a good idea or not.
Hi, I'm Hitler. I killed over 6 million Jews. However, practically no-one spoke out about it, so that made it alright, seeing as they obviously thought it was an okay thing to do.

I completely fail to see the logic of 'Them not posting means they're not fussed'. I wouldn't even have known this thread was here, had I not been bored and wanted to check what the 'Spring Cleaning' actually was. The title doesn't exactly scream 'We're going to be rearranging the boards' - heck, when I first saw it, I thought it was going to be another member prune.

Like others have said, this should've a) been an announcement; b) been left open for feedback way more than a week. And my own input, c) had a more appropriate name. Sorry, Harry, I know you're more the implicit type, but 'Forum Rearrangement' really wouldn't have gone awry.

Anyway, someone's already made a poll. I think it'd be a good idea to have that announced as well.
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  #63  
Old 06-21-2011, 08:15 PM
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Default Re: PE2K Spring Cleaning

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Pichu Boy- View Post
I completely fail to see the logic of 'Them not posting means they're not fussed'. I wouldn't even have known this thread was here, had I not been bored and wanted to check what the 'Spring Cleaning' actually was. The title doesn't exactly scream 'We're going to be rearranging the boards' - heck, when I first saw it, I thought it was going to be another member prune.
That's exactly what I thought at first, too. Then, to my surprise when I clicked, I see a proposed forum layout. Which then (as it has been repeated):

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Pichu Boy- View Post
should've a) been an announcement; b) been left open for feedback way more than a week. And my own input, c) had a more appropriate name. Sorry, Harry, I know you're more the implicit type, but 'Forum Rearrangement' really wouldn't have gone awry.
Not gonna lie, I did like it at first. However, now that I've seen it happen, I see that there's some issues. I personally think now that Graphic Arts should still have its own section. I can tell it's a bit of an effort to try and create a "Mixed Media" type of board, but graphic arts stand out in its own category. Whereas if the art board was back to the way it was, you could just convert the "Drawn Art" into the "Mixed Media" you're trying to go for.

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Originally Posted by Pe2k Voices View Post
I doubt a cluttered mess would attract members either, Harry.
As for meshing the Pokemon and Other RPs together, I know it will work. I'm pretty sure a good majority of people like RPing more than just Pokemon. While, yes, this is a Pokemon forum and that should be its main focus, there is such a thing as exploring other universes, and I'm pretty sure people would get tired of RPing just Pokemon all the time. Not to mention on a couple of forums I've lurked, it's worked wonders (Gaia Online and the GTS), and they're active as all heck (then again, that's because those two sites offer something larger apart from just a forum to talk in, like a game, giant trading center, or egg-clicking site, but still). If you REALLY want to keep track of an RP, just link it in your sig or bookmark it. It really isn't that hard to do.

All I can really say to that is give it time to sink in and decide later on down the road whether or not you really like it. Putting two things of the exact same nature isn't considered a cluttered mess, it's considered you not liking the new change because you can't keep track of your RP anymore. What are you gonna do when this forum suddenly does boom again, and everything starts sinking to the next pages, hm?
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  #64  
Old 06-21-2011, 08:16 PM
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Default Re: PE2K Spring Cleaning

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Originally Posted by -Pichu Boy- View Post
Hi, I'm Hitler. I killed over 6 million Jews. However, practically no-one spoke out about it, so that made it alright, seeing as they obviously thought it was an okay thing to do.

I completely fail to see the logic of 'Them not posting means they're not fussed'. I wouldn't even have known this thread was here, had I not been bored and wanted to check what the 'Spring Cleaning' actually was. The title doesn't exactly scream 'We're going to be rearranging the boards' - heck, when I first saw it, I thought it was going to be another member prune.

Like others have said, this should've a) been an announcement; b) been left open for feedback way more than a week. And my own input, c) had a more appropriate name. Sorry, Harry, I know you're more the implicit type, but 'Forum Rearrangement' really wouldn't have gone awry.

Anyway, someone's already made a poll. I think it'd be a good idea to have that announced as well.
My point was that you shouldn't go speaking like you represent everybody until you are sure you have the majority on your side. I've seen too many things ruined by a vocal minority. I suppose I should have made it more clear.

I really have to question why it wasn't an announcement. Even if it kept this name as an announcement more people would have gotten curious and checked it out. I also agree that it should have been up for more than a week. Even if it wasn't, they made it seem very slapdash.

Yes, I think that poll should be announced. My problem with that poll is that is covers the change as a whole, so it will be more difficult to tell if their problem is with the RPGs or something else if they choose not to post in the thread as well. Don't forget that there are good changes as well, and I don't want to see them being undone because of it.
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  #65  
Old 06-21-2011, 10:54 PM
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Default Re: PE2K Spring Cleaning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Espeon Esper View Post
Yes, I think that poll should be announced. My problem with that poll is that is covers the change as a whole, so it will be more difficult to tell if their problem is with the RPGs or something else if they choose not to post in the thread as well. Don't forget that there are good changes as well, and I don't want to see them being undone because of it.
This is basically the issue with the poll. The poll is horribly biased because if people don't like one small change out of many of the changes we did, they will automatically vote 'no' even though they may be happy with the rest of the changes. So it's really not informative to the staff at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Espeon Esper View Post

The majority of people who posted here are the minority of the people who use the RPGs. It is more logical to say that most of the people don't have a problem with this seeing as they haven't come here and commented about it, and that you're just the vocal minority. I propose that you create a poll in each of the RPGs, and the results of those will be used to determine whether it's a good idea or not.
This is basically what I was trying to say.


Quote:
Originally Posted by -Pichu Boy- View Post
I completely fail to see the logic of 'Them not posting means they're not fussed'. I wouldn't even have known this thread was here, had I not been bored and wanted to check what the 'Spring Cleaning' actually was. The title doesn't exactly scream 'We're going to be rearranging the boards' - heck, when I first saw it, I thought it was going to be another member prune.
Now that the boards have been changed, everyone who actively uses those RPGs will have seen the change. Yet only a very small number have said they dislike the change. Its natural therefore to assume that the rest of the users don't mind the change (I know this is not necessarily true but it's the only data we can go off as of right now). As I said early in the thread, if you wish to make a separate thread specifically about the RPGs to highlight the amount of people that dislike the change then you are welcome to. But considering the small amount of responses from the people who use the RPGs, it doesn't seem like a majority to me. Of course it's still early days and I'm sure there will be more responses as time goes on. All I ask of you is to at least give the changes a chance. If it is clear that activity is adversely effected or that a large enough amount of the people who use those boards disagree with the changes then we will be willing to rethink it. However you all really need to at least give it a chance first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The pokemaster View Post
And, one more thing. People are saying that, y'know, we're too inactive, get rid of this because no one posts, we don't have new members, I don't know. I just feel that a small, conscious effort from more active members, towards certain boards that may be dieing, would go a long way. Even if said active members aren't good at whatever, as long as people are giving it a go, people will learn and improve, and people will come because activity will slowly increase.
Thanks for posting this. Does everyone not think that the staff would much have preferred that we had enough activity to keep all the boards? Of course we would! But that's up to the members as well. It's easy to say "we shouldn't delete boards, they should just be made more active", but how do you expect the staff to do that all by themselves?

The only boards that were merged were boards that were hardly ever used. TCG for example maybe got one or two threads PER MONTH. I must say I find it quite amusing how many people are now posting "we should have a TCG section!" when they never used it even when we had it. xD That doesn't mean that if more people start posting about the TCG that we can't have a new TCG board in the future. The changes were made based on PE2K's activity at this moment. If activity changes, the forum organisation can be updated to reflect that. If there's a board you particularly miss then start posting topics that would go in there and try and get people more interested in that section.

We have taken the feedback regarding the announcement of the changes into account and we will be sure to publicise any major changes more in the future.
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  #66  
Old 06-22-2011, 07:03 AM
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Default Re: PE2K Spring Cleaning

Low activity does not mean you should take a crap on it. Keep it organized, and they will come. What you are doing is sabotaging those sections. They have no people, so you keep it messy, effectively making it look unattractive to people who might want to join.
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  #67  
Old 06-22-2011, 08:25 AM
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Default Re: PE2K Spring Cleaning

Just wanted to give people some perspective on the current situation. Everyone wants more information.

The following graphs are average posts/day on a weekly basis.




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  #68  
Old 06-22-2011, 09:13 AM
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Default Re: PE2K Spring Cleaning

Can I just ask where the information is from, and its reliability?

Also, I'd just like to point out from those graphs: if we assume the steep drop in BMG's activity is the downtime from upgrading to VB4, then it goes back up to about its average activity. However, it's been dropping ever since it upgraded (in other words, changed). It's been about 3 weeks since they upgraded.

I'm just saying, BMG changed, and they've lost activity - what's to say it won't happen to us? Heck, what's to say if it does happen, it won't be as bad? BMG lost about 1000 posts' worth of activity - we don't even have 1000 posts' worth to lose!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokemon Trainer Sarah View Post
Now that the boards have been changed, everyone who actively uses those RPGs will have seen the change. Yet only a very small number have said they dislike the change. Its natural therefore to assume that the rest of the users don't mind the change (I know this is not necessarily true but it's the only data we can go off as of right now). As I said early in the thread, if you wish to make a separate thread specifically about the RPGs to highlight the amount of people that dislike the change then you are welcome to. But considering the small amount of responses from the people who use the RPGs, it doesn't seem like a majority to me. Of course it's still early days and I'm sure there will be more responses as time goes on. All I ask of you is to at least give the changes a chance. If it is clear that activity is adversely effected or that a large enough amount of the people who use those boards disagree with the changes then we will be willing to rethink it. However you all really need to at least give it a chance first.
But, like I said before, what if they don't know where to go to complain? I think, at least now, the title should be changed to something more explicit, which says "This is what the thread's about, not some ambiguous cryptic clue."
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  #69  
Old 06-22-2011, 09:28 AM
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Default Re: PE2K Spring Cleaning

Sure. I tracked all of these numbers myself by checking the message boards above on a weekly basis.
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Old 06-22-2011, 09:42 AM
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Default Re: PE2K Spring Cleaning

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pe2k Voices View Post
Low activity does not mean you should take a crap on it. Keep it organized, and they will come. What you are doing is sabotaging those sections. They have no people, so you keep it messy, effectively making it look unattractive to people who might want to join.
Mike, it's not like anyone tries to have it messy. And what do you mean? What kind of specifics are you talking about? Just calling it 'messy' sounds harsh and unfair. It's not an easy job to keep everything together.


Look, I think people aren't taking it into account that the Mods was thinking completely decent-mindedly about this clean out. I personally think it's cool to have a fresh new look, and just because there are a few changes, it doesn't mean people should be so quick to freak out about it. I think that we should all just calm down a bit, take into consideration that this cleanout wasn't a five minute decision, and that people put thought into it. And then to be bashed for it is completely unfair.

People could always be a bit more considerate when suggesting changes and explaining things they aren't happy with in an informative and reasonable manner. I mean, comparing something like this to Hitler is absolutely ridiculous and it seems like an indirect attack (even though it probably wasn't, and I know it was said to support an argument) on the mods.

It seems to me like people didn't think that, oh, the mods did this FOR the forum, not against them. And, hey. There was a perfectly clear layout in post #1, and now you're going and blaming HIM just because you decided not to check the thread. So what if the thread's name is slightly abstract and not so self-explanatory? You could have checked it anyway, and considering it was in the front desk section, you should have checked it out. Stop blaming other people for what YOU didn't do. The old arrangement is in the past now, and saying "Oh, you SHOULD have done this, and you SHOULD have done that" is totally pointless. Yes, I just said it in that paragraph (xD), but the new forum is here, and you have to deal with it. Besides, what are a few changes gonna do--kill you?

The mods did nothing wrong. They presented the new layout, kept it there for an appropriate amount of time before changing it, and were totally open to suggestion. Obviously it's hard to cater for everyone's desires, and being a global mod isn't as easy as one-two-three. I doubt anyone could do a better job than he and the other GMs are doing now, and he had completely reasonable reasons for merging sections and creating new ones, so how about we be productive and approach this maturely?

SHEESH.

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  #71  
Old 06-22-2011, 09:54 AM
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Default Re: PE2K Spring Cleaning

Update~

As was suggested, [Pokemon] and [Other] prefixes have been added to the Role Playing and Creative Writing boards so that anyone who would like to use them when creating a thread can do so. =)
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  #72  
Old 06-22-2011, 10:11 AM
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Default Re: PE2K Spring Cleaning

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Originally Posted by Graceful_Suicune View Post
comparing something like this to Hitler is absolutely ridiculous and it seems like an indirect attack (even though it probably wasn't, and I know it was said to support an argument) on the mods.
Actually, the Hitler thing had nothing to do with the layout change. It had to do with the idea of "no-one's speaking out, so that means they don't care." What I was trying to say is just because people haven't said anything, doesn't mean you should jump to the conclusion that they're not fussed.

Quote:
There was a perfectly clear layout in post #1, and now you're going and blaming HIM just because you decided not to check the thread. So what if the thread's name is slightly abstract and not so self-explanatory? You could have checked it anyway, and considering it was in the front desk section, you should have checked it out. Stop blaming other people for what YOU didn't do.
I did read the thread, actually, but only because I was bored and was just going through checking the details of what I thought was a member prune. However, a shake-up this big should've been an announcement, not a thread with an ambiguous name, and it was because it wasn't announced that I initially thought it was no big deal.

Quote:
The mods did nothing wrong. They presented the new layout, kept it there for an appropriate amount of time before changing it, and were totally open to suggestion. Obviously it's hard to cater for everyone's desires, and being a global mod isn't as easy as one-two-three. I doubt anyone could do a better job than he and the other GMs are doing now, and he had completely reasonable reasons for merging sections and creating new ones, so how about we be productive and approach this maturely?
I comlpetely agree, being a G-Mod and practically having to run the forum is hard. However, the facts are that they posted this here for feedback, the majority of the people who posted here said they didn't like a certain aspect of the change, yet it went ahead anyway, giving the impression that suggestions were useless. You can't just say "Well, only X amount of people from the RPGs posted here, so the others obviously think it's an alright idea." The argument works both ways: if they thought it was a good idea, why didn't they come here and defend it?

It's like if there's a general election. People will vote for who they want to be in power, and the people who don't vote have no justified right to complain with who's put in power. If they wanted it another way, they should've made their voice heard. The people who took all the votes into account don't think "oh, wait, loads of people who didn't vote hate these new people, so we'll re-tally all the votes".

11 people posted here with their views. Out of the 11, 7 thought the RPGs should've stayed separate. The other 4 made no comment. You cannot deny this. So, if people thought it was a good idea, they should've come here and defended it. You cannot assume because people don't say anything, it was because they had nothing to say.

---

But, admist all this negativity, I would like to say, I like the prefixes addition. As Simmi suggested, maybe also have some for the Arts section? [Graphics], [Drawn], etc... :)
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Old 06-22-2011, 02:56 PM
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Default Re: PE2K Spring Cleaning

I think at this point, some people are just arguing for the sake of arguing or because they're mad about the changes and aren't really getting their way about it. Now that I've had the night to think it over (yaaayyy for being a paper carrier and being bored for 3 1/2 hours a night), I can see now that the mods only did what they felt was best for the forum, knowing full well that there would be loads of disagreements. However I feel that the only mistakes on their part was the time span between the announcement and the changes, and not making this a forum announcement seeing as how it would be a major change that would affect the entire forum.

Now the question is, would Ryan do the same thing? Most likely, but had he have done it, the members would have reacted differently and been more accepting. Unfortunately, he has a life outside of running his website, which is why he chose several people to run it for him, and they're doing the best that they can, and we're being unappreciative of their efforts. This goes to show how unreasonable the members are.

Now that everything's said and done, all we can do at this point is forgive the mods of the mistakes they made and move on. They're more than willing to compromise with you on something, but you have to make that conscious effort to step up to the plate and talk to them about it. Expecting these guys to know exactly what to do and how to run the forum is a huge mistake on the members' part. They can only do so much, and they're already under fire from our complaints, of which barely ANY of them contain any sort of constructive criticism or suggestions on how to fix something.

Saying something is messy isn't helping the mods resolve anything. If it's doing anything at all, it's probably only frustrating them because you're not telling them why it's messy. I personally think the Pokemon/Other fuse is a good idea. I see it all over other forums and people haven't left over that. It's just stupid. All the mods are simply asking you to do is give the new layout a chance instead of sitting there on your un-helpful arse and stop complaining about it. They're not asking you to leave just because you don't like something or to go jump off a cliff because of how unhappy you are. They're being reasonable, and most of us aren't.

Now can we all just stop getting flustered over this and start suggesting things without feeling the need to get upset over it? That's all the mods are asking for. That's it. What's done is done, they're not willing to go back to the old layout, so we're going to have to make due and/or compromise with the new one until a couple of weeks have gone by.

Just had to throw my 2 cents in there. .u.
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  #74  
Old 06-22-2011, 03:55 PM
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Default Re: PE2K Spring Cleaning

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Pichu Boy- View Post
But, admist all this negativity, I would like to say, I like the prefixes addition. As Simmi suggested, maybe also have some for the Arts section? [Graphics], [Drawn], etc... :)
^ Please? The whole main Art Board is messy with graphics, drawings, contests. If the Art Board isn't going to have at least another two more sub-boards for Graphics and Contests, I think the Art Board at least needs some prefixes. I actually don't even understand why Sprite Art can have its own sub-board, but Contests and Graphics can't? I understand we now have a main board, but I think we should use the main board for drawn art, digital drawings, ect and let Graphics / Photography and Contests have its own sub-board. That's just a suggestion I had in mind. I'm not sure if everyone else would agree, but I'm just saying it out there. =P
Quote:
Not gonna lie, I did like it at first. However, now that I've seen it happen, I see that there's some issues.
Like Jess said, I did like the idea at first. I sorta drifted over to see the board changes. Now, er, I don't like it very much. ^..^; I don't hate it or love, I just don't like it.

Quote:
I personally think now that Graphic Arts should still have its own section. I can tell it's a bit of an effort to try and create a "Mixed Media" type of board, but graphic arts stand out in its own category. Whereas if the art board was back to the way it was, you could just convert the "Drawn Art" into the "Mixed Media" you're trying to go for.
Yeah, I basically agree with the fact Graphics should have its own section.

I had an idea for the Art Boards, or uh, a change to the layout might make it more organized?
Spoiler:
Art Main board (Should have drawings, like traditional work, digital drawings. That, and we don't get rid of the main board that we're able to post in.) And this is already made.
Sub boards
- Graphics And Photography - For photography, and graphic artwork
- Sprite Board (We have that already made)
- Contests - For mixed art contests.

The board would sorta look like before the changes happened, but only because it was a lot more organized there before the changes ever happened. This is still A.) A change to the board because we keep the main Art board that was just made and B.) It's more organized. This is just an idea only because I think it's unfair Sprite Art can have its own sub-board, but three boards (Contest, Graphics and Drawn art) have to be in one.
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  #75  
Old 06-22-2011, 08:13 PM
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Default Re: PE2K Spring Cleaning

Hkim doesn't get it. Having the art sections cluttered makes people NOT want to have to deal with the mess, making activity STAY low.
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