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Competitive Battling This board is for competitive battling discussion. Get team help or learn to play competitively.


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  #1  
Old 04-05-2011, 03:36 PM
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Default Questions of a Competitive Battling Newbie

Okay, I’ll admit, I’ve never been big on competitive battling, mainly because I’m not really all that certain on how to even get started. Guides I’ve checked online kind of give a runaround or roundabout way of addressing it, and they don’t answer all the questions I have in mind. So, I was wondering if someone might shed some light on several of the questions that have always been on my mind.

I understand that IVs deal with the nature of the Pokémon, and that having a nature that grants stat bonuses geared more toward what you’re intending to do with the Pokémon is better. Such as if you want a Pokémon that you intend on being more offensive, then you’ll want to ensure the nature is geared more toward benefitting Attack and Special Attack, even if the other stats are diminished a bit. Effort Values I’m guessing work the same way and go hand in hand with that principle. Why try to jack up the speed on a Pokémon that’s already horribly slow? Focus more on their other stats, and the like of what they excel at. The whole improve on strengths, don't compensate for weaknesses.

So, here are my direct questions. Please don’t laugh at them, I know I’m several generations behind when getting the full scope of these, and somewhere along the line I got lost and kind of gave up on it completely. The fact I’ve never had answers to these is mainly the reason why I’ve never really gotten into it.

So do I absolutely have to hatch a Pokémon from an egg for it to be considered viable for competitive battling? I know the nature needs to be geared more toward what kind of role I want the Pokémon to fulfill on the team, but how much difference is there, if any, between a hatched Pokémon with the nature stat allotment I want between a caught Pokémon with the nature stat allotment I want? And if catching it is okay, does the level matter greatly, or should I really shoot for catching the Pokémon at the lowest level possible?

EVs. Can I just use vitamins instead of trying to train the Pokémon in specific places? By vitamins, I mean Carbos, Zinc, HP Up, that stuff. Is one method better over the other, or do you pretty much get the same results regardless? Also, if vitamins are used, should they be used the very moment I see the Pokémon with the nature I want has hatched, and no training has begun yet, or do they get used at a later time?

Macho Brace. Should I be using it or is it more of a gimmick? Also, I’m not exactly sure what the thing does, the description on it is pretty vague. If using it is a good idea, should it be religiously kept on at all times while the Pokémon is in training from level 5 to 100, or is there a time when it can be taken off to have some other item put on it instead?

Lucky Egg/Exp Share. Is it okay for these to be used, or does it negatively affect the Pokémon’s stats/growth if I try to “cut corners?” My reason for asking is that I find these are pretty helpful when it comes to speeding up training, which takes an enormous amount of time already. I find Lucky Egg works great to speed up training, and Exp Share is good when you have a really low level Pokémon that can inherit a wealth of experience while the rest of your team handles the Elite Four or something like that.


That’s most of what I have so far, I feel I might have forgotten something along the line, but those are the questions that stick out the most for me.
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  #2  
Old 04-05-2011, 03:45 PM
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Default Re: Questions of a Competitive Battling Newbie

I think I can help here.

1. You don't exactly have to hatch a Pokemon from an egg to have it be competitive, but if you start breeding, you can have Pokemon with max IV's, the perfect nature, and some Egg Moves. If you find a Wild Pokemon with the nature you want and good IV's, go ahead and use it if you want.

2. You can use Vitamins whenever, but they don't max out the EV's in a stat. At most, you can get 100 EV's in a stat using vitamins, so you still have to earn another 152 to max out the stat.

3. The Macho Brace doubles the rate of EV gain, so you can get the EV's trained in half the time. Still, if you're willing to challenge the Battle Frontier in D/P/Pt/HG/SS or the Battle Subway in B/W, you can earn Power items, which give you 4 times as many EV's in a stat. So with a Power Weight, I get 4 EV's for every Bidoof I beat instead of 1.

4. Both are okay to use when training, it doesn't matter how fast you level, so long as you get the EV's before you reach Level 100. Keep in mind that if you use the Exp. Share, it also shares the EV's, so you have to make sure you don't KO the wrong Pokemon when level grinding.
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  #3  
Old 04-05-2011, 04:16 PM
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Default Re: Questions of a Competitive Battling Newbie

Alright, thanks, I appreciate that. Definitely makes a lot more sense now.
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  #4  
Old 04-05-2011, 04:49 PM
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Default Re: Questions of a Competitive Battling Newbie

I guess I throw in some of my own knowledge into the boat.

1) You don't have to hatch eggs but it surely makes things a bit faster. I found it easier and faster to make fives eggs then going into the grass and catching five pokemon. It gets even more tiresome when you have to find the right nature for that pokemon.

Also things are a bit easier if you just go out and catch a bunch of Dittos. A cool breeding trick is to put a ditto holding an Everstone and the pokemon you making an egg for into the Day Care. The pokemon that comes out of the egg will then have the same nature of the Ditto that was used. In my Pearl game I have a whole box filled with Dittos of different natures for any breeding job I need to do. Makes finding that right nature much easier.

Other: You may also want to see if you can find a pokemon inflicted with PokeRus. It doubles the EVs you get when battling. It is pretty random when you find it but when you do then that is good. Just get a random pokemon and get it infected then stick that pokemon in the box and take it out when you need to EV train.
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  #5  
Old 04-05-2011, 04:55 PM
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Default Re: Questions of a Competitive Battling Newbie

Alright, those questions answered help me as well. I've always been a passive gamer in Pokémon, never doing a dang thing online or with other people save for the occasional instance of trading. However, I have some additional questions.

1. Without using an online IV calculator, how can you tell how many IVs a Pokémon has in the first place? I'd just rather not have to resort to using IV calculators without at least first understanding how they calculate such values. How DOES one determine these unseeable values?

2. Is there a general pattern to what Pokémon gives what EVs when battled, or do I have to resort to looking online to see them? I never got how people even determined these, short of hacking the game code and seeing for themselves. Relying on constantly checking an online list isn't really high on my "like to do for video games" list, cause I don't generally like constantly referring to a guide or walkthrough.

3. Is there a way to make a team complete with what I call "counter busters"? Yeah, I know, I JUST made that term up, but I don't know the correct term for it. Basically, the term, to me, means a way to truly take care of weaknesses that the team has. For instance, Garchomp has a severe weakness to Ice, so it has the ability to learn techniques like Fire Fang and Stone Edge. However, bring something like a Glaceon into the mix, and it can survive the hit (pending EV builds, I imagine) from Stone Edge, and, barring the Critical Hit possibility, it can lash back at Garchomp quite easily with something like Ice Beam and destroy it. Is there a way to cover all bases so that the Team does not have any particular weakness that can be exploited? I'm not looking for a specific answer, though examples can help.

----------

These are just a few of the questions I have. To be truthful, I don't even know WHAT I should ask. I've never been a competitive battler, so I don't know what I should know in order to be competent at it were I to start getting into it. I'm not looking to become a guy who spends day and night obsessing over this sort of thing like other geeks I know, but I think it would be interesting to at least start getting into this sort of thing with some knowledge to help the process rather than flailing blindly and getting *cough* "raepd" at every corner."

Thank you for your time.
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  #6  
Old 04-05-2011, 09:19 PM
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Default Re: Questions of a Competitive Battling Newbie

I try to take care of the question that I think I can answer best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shen View Post

2. Is there a general pattern to what Pokémon gives what EVs when battled, or do I have to resort to looking online to see them? I never got how people even determined these, short of hacking the game code and seeing for themselves. Relying on constantly checking an online list isn't really high on my "like to do for video games" list, cause I don't generally like constantly referring to a guide or walkthrough.
The general pattern for how many EVs are given based on their stage.

1st Stage Pokemon- 1 EV Point
2nd Stage Pokemon- 2 EV Points
3rd Stage Pokemon- 3 EV Points
NonEvoution Pokemo- 1 or 2 EV Points.

Certain nonEvoution Pokemon vary on the number of EVs they give out. Luvdisc only gives out one point while Absol gives out two EV points.

Also to consider is that every pokemon gives out a different kind of EV Point. An example of this would be Bidoof who gives out 1 HP EV while Luxio gives out 2 Attack EVs. Usually the kind of EV points that is given out can be remembered by what is the highest stat that the pokemon has.

You may not want to rely on guides and such but Serebii's Pokedex does tell you which pokemon gives out what kind of EV and how many. The best suggest I can give you is find out the pokemon you will encounter in the area that you are EV training in and see what kind and how many EV points they give. Then just battle the pokemon you want for the EVs that you need.
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  #7  
Old 04-12-2011, 10:41 PM
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Default Re: Questions of a Competitive Battling Newbie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shen View Post
1. Without using an online IV calculator, how can you tell how many IVs a Pokémon has in the first place? I'd just rather not have to resort to using IV calculators without at least first understanding how they calculate such values. How DOES one determine these unseeable values?
There really isn't a perfect way unfortunately. The absolute best way (in my opinion) is to breed on DPPl/HGSS because once you hatch the eggs you want to IV check, you can go into a level 100 battle on wifi and plug in that pokemon stats into an IV calculator and it will give you EXACTLY what each IV is in each stat.

On Black and White, it is a little bit more difficult since there is no level 100 battling option. Once you've hatched the eggs you want to check you can go into the basement of the Battle Subway and the first guy that is standing there will tell you what stats your pokemon has "perfect" (31) IV's in. Once I'm satisfied with what he tells me, then I save the game and level up the pokemon with 20 rare candies or so and check on an IV calc what the other IV's (roughly) are in the other stats to determine whether I want to keep it or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shen View Post
2. Is there a general pattern to what Pokémon gives what EVs when battled, or do I have to resort to looking online to see them? I never got how people even determined these, short of hacking the game code and seeing for themselves. Relying on constantly checking an online list isn't really high on my "like to do for video games" list, cause I don't generally like constantly referring to a guide or walkthrough.
The very best link is right here:

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-bw/

If you scroll down, click the appropriate stat that you are curious about under "Effort Values Listing" and it lists by stat which pokemon give out which (as well as how many) EV's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shen View Post
3. Is there a way to make a team complete with what I call "counter busters"? Yeah, I know, I JUST made that term up, but I don't know the correct term for it. Basically, the term, to me, means a way to truly take care of weaknesses that the team has. For instance, Garchomp has a severe weakness to Ice, so it has the ability to learn techniques like Fire Fang and Stone Edge. However, bring something like a Glaceon into the mix, and it can survive the hit (pending EV builds, I imagine) from Stone Edge, and, barring the Critical Hit possibility, it can lash back at Garchomp quite easily with something like Ice Beam and destroy it. Is there a way to cover all bases so that the Team does not have any particular weakness that can be exploited? I'm not looking for a specific answer, though examples can help.
Absolutely, yes. This is actually how I build my team. I usually pick a favorite pokemon of mine (in this example I will use Gyarados) and build out from there.

Gyarados is usually a physical sweeper, so when contemplating who else I will add to my team, I will take into consideration that I also want an effective lead pokemon, a special sweeper, a physical wall a special wall and the final pokemon will usually cover up other weaknesses that my 5 other pokemon are weak to as best as I can.

Common counters to Gyarados are rock type users and the obvious Electric attacks. Seeing that Gyarados will amost certainly fall to any electric attack, it would probably be wise for me to add in an electric type (possibly with the Lightning Rod ability to gain an extra Special Attack boost) or a ground type to completely negate electric attacks all together as well as resist rock type attacks.

Lets say for this example, I add Flygon since it resists both Rock and Electric attacks. Adding Flygon however has added a quad weakness to ice and also a weakness to Dragon types.

When seeing that, I might look to add a Steel type since Steel resists both Ice and Dragon.

As you can see, type combinations can be endless. Usually when I build a team, I make sure that two pokemon on my team can always cover one pokemons weakness. That way if one goes down, I always have another one that can step in.

Building teams this way can take a lot of time and thought process but the results generally tilt the scale in your favor because your team will have excellent synergy against most wifi teams you will encounter.

Any other help or questions, don't hesitate to ask.
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Last edited by Elite_Battle_Master; 04-12-2011 at 10:51 PM.
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