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Trainer's Court The Trainer's Court! Where the URPG hold it's trials.


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  #1  
Old 08-19-2010, 04:34 PM
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Default Art Capture Method

There have been many discussions about the possibility of an Art Capture Method for Pokemon in the URPG. The idea being that the three biggest creativity outlets on a pokemon forum tend to be Roleplaying, Story Writing, and Art. The Park is the RP method and our Story Board is the Writing method. So where is our art method?

It has been suggested that it would be rather difficult to create a standard method of judging if an artwork would capture a pokemon or not. Not to mention the fact that we have different styles ranging from CG to pixel. Writing follows the rules and limitations of grammar. What rules does art follow?

Of course, being the obtuse person I am, I have not given up on figuring out a potential method to use for art capturing. Think of it as the holy grail of Art and URPG cooperation. When we achieve it, it will be a sight to behold.

For now though, I present a rather simple idea that we perhaps could implement.

Most of us are aware of art competitions, in which creative members gather together and submit their work to be judged by a panel of experts or the community as a whole. Voting is involved in some form or another. Ultimately, a victor or a ranking is announced. There are winner and losers. Everyone is excited about the results and can't wait to see what may happen next.

So I propose an art competition that occurs every week or every two weeks depending on the participation. It could work similar to auctions in that an official puts up a single pokemon as the competition's theme. Instead of money, artists submit their work to be judged. And the winner, of course, wins the pokemon in question.


Difficulty

The idea should be that to make this an event in which artists can catch pokemon just like we allow writers to catch pokemon and allowed roleplayers to catch pokemon.

The difficulty should be based on the principle of "Equivalent Exchange".

Stories are sometimes difficult in nature for certain pokemon for the very reason that you can catch any pokemon you want (except a legendary). Your difficulty is dependent on the pokemon you wish to acquire, ranging from a Magikarp to Porygon-Z.

Similarly, the Park should theoretically have a similar difficulty but modified based on the fact that you cannot choose the specific pokemon to capture, but potentially could capture a lot more pokemon over the course of your journey. Additionally, there is a monetary cost to entering the Park that stories do not have.

Acquiring a Pokemon in the Pokemart is not difficult at all, but your selection is limited. Acquiring a Pokemon in an Auction is limited by the fact that you could easily be outbid by any of the other members. Equivalent Exchange.

A continually held Art Competition, in which he hold one contest after the other, would implement elements of the Park and Auction House. The pokemon put up to be won would be decided randomly (more or less) and thus not up to the choice of interested trainers. Unlike the Auction House, it would be a skill challenge rather than a bid, so no money would be required.


Scheduling

We have a variety of artists among our members so I would propose the following format.

A competition is held in rapid succession (like how auctions are supposed to be run). Rules are rather simple:

- The work must be your own
- Only one submission per a competition
- The entry must match the theme (usually the pokemon in question)
- Follow basic forum and URPG rules

And the "type" of competition will be rotated between three aspects of art:

Week 1: Drawn Art
Week 2: Graphic Art
Week 3: Pixel Art
Week 4: Drawn Art
Week 5: Graphic Art
Week 6: Pixel Art

And so on and so forth. This allows for different types of artists to compete.

Should we have a lot of participation, I imagine that the competition will last two weeks. The first week would be the time allotted to submission and the second week would be allotted to judging (which probably will be either selected qualified people or by popular vote). During the second week of voting, another competition will be held to keep the ball rolling. So to update the list above:

Week 1: Drawn Art Submission
Week 2: Drawn Art Judging, Graphic Art Submission
Week 3: Graphic Art Judging, Pixel Art Submission
Week 4: Pixel Art Judging, Drawn Art Submission
Week 5: Drawn Art Judging, Graphic Art Submission
Week 6: Graphic Art Judging, Pixel Art Submission


Judging

Popular vote's only downside is that people might not be interested in voting or that it would turn into a popularity contest. That being said, it's not necessarily a bad way to go and fairly easy to implement.

But like every major URPG section, we tend to have paid professions and I'm thinking that might be the way to go here.

Think of it this way. To have a few people responsible for a section ensures that the section (at the very least) has someone concerned over it. The Head Ref ensures everything about Battles runs smoothly. The Head Grader checks that stories are being graded and such. The Head Judge worries about section activity. And the professions under them work hard to not only help out the URPG, but also earn a little more on the side. The incentive is two-fold (help the URPG and earn money).

Professionals also have a strong responsibility to be fair, unbiased, and uphold honorable credentials. If they cheat or act improperly, it reflects badly on the URPG as a whole. Thus they carry out their duties with respect.

We could have a similar system in here in which Art Professionals act in a fair manner to determine who wins each contest. For simplicity's sake, let's call these people "jurors". The jurors would have to pass a test (just like every other professional) but it would be one based more on how their thought process works. If they can explain why they like one submission more than the other and what elements strike them. Yes, this will have bias, but jurors will have a greater incentive to be fair than the general public. After all, it's their job. I'm thinking three jurors per an event who award on a 10 or 100 point scale.

They'll also be responsible for ensuring that there is no cheating and that art events will be put up on time.

And of course, like every other professional, they'll work under a Head Juror (or is it Head Jurist?) who will pay them for their work. Thus ensuring responsibility and fairness across the board.


Awards based on Effort

There are two potential methods for implementing effort-based rewards.


Solution 1

The first changes the method slightly. Instead of a Jurist putting up a specific pokemon as a prize, the prize is based on how many people participate. The more entries there are, the better the prize is.

For example:

1 to 2 Entries: Easiest Mon
3 to 4 Entries: Simple Mon
5 to 7 Entries: Medium Mon
8 to 10 Entries: Hard Mon
11 to 14 Entries: Complex Mon
15 to 18 Entries: Demanding Mon
19 to 23 Entries: Merciless Mon
24 or more Entries: Stupefying Mon

The winner chooses a pokemon from the category or a lower category as the prize, giving the winner a choice rather than a specific pokemon like in auctions. This also allows for jurists to choose more creative competition themes like "Happiness" or "Halloween". The numbers above can be adjusted of course.


Solution 2

This idea relates closer to PE2KCalamity's idea of using emblems. I'll quote his post for reference:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PE2KCalamity
2 Emblems -> Hard 'mon
5 Emblems -> Complex 'mon
9 Emblems -> Demanding 'mon
14 Emblems -> Merciless 'mon
20 Emblems -> Mystery Prize?!?!
As in the mentioned method, a Juror puts up a specific pokemon as the theme and participants compete to win that pokemon.

As before, the winner wins the pokemon in question.

Additionally, each participant receives an Emblem. The Emblem acts sort of like a separate currency like Contest Credits.

The idea is that, if you earn so many Emblems, you can use them to purchase a pokemon of a certain tier. The higher the tier, the more emblems it cost. Obviously this puts the above list a little low.

A new proposed list would be:

1 Emblem -> Easiest
2 Emblems -> Simple
4 Emblems -> Medium
7 Emblems -> Hard
11 Emblems -> Complex
16 Emblems -> Demanding
22 Emblems -> Merciless
29 Emblems -> Stupefying

And of course, the above list can be changed. This system awards members for participating and doing some work. And the juror can decide if a member is abusing the system by submitting a blank piece for example and not award an Emblem. (Honest people are a natural defense against cheating). That way, even if you lose the competition, you still earn something that can eventually be used to catch a pokemon.

We could have people scoring from 75 points to 100 points receive two emblems. Those scoring 25 points to 74 points receive one emblem. And those scoring less than 25 points receive no emblem. This rewards people who work hard and participate while accounting for anyone trying to abuse the system.

Of course, we could combine the above two systems. It's just a matter of what people like.
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Last edited by HKim; 08-19-2010 at 04:57 PM.
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  #2  
Old 08-19-2010, 04:35 PM
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Default Re: Art Capture Method

Oh god yes please
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  #3  
Old 08-19-2010, 04:45 PM
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Default Re: Art Capture Method

Solution 2 please.

Also Could we become Art Graders/judges/Raters Also have specific ones for each so they can just keep track of graphics or drawing or Pixels and stuff so that the one or how ever many people wont have to worry about going over ALL entry's, if this make since xD


~JKJesse~
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  #4  
Old 08-19-2010, 04:48 PM
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Default Re: Art Capture Method

Just please don't make this another way members can get overpowered pokemon with not much effort. x_x
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  #5  
Old 08-19-2010, 05:03 PM
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Default Re: Art Capture Method

Quote:
Originally Posted by LS the Door Mat View Post
Just please don't make this another way members can get overpowered pokemon with not much effort. x_x

The great thing about this particular proposition is that it's relatively easy to adjust the difficulty (unlike the Park).

So if we were going with the Emblem method, the simple solution would be to raise the cost of acquiring a pokemon. Adjusting the new method to the current system would be simple.
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  #6  
Old 08-19-2010, 05:10 PM
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Default Re: Art Capture Method

inb4 bad suggestion.


Maybe Charge people to enter so that we dont get Joke entries and stuff. Im thinking maybe like 1k-2k Because you are also have a Chance of getting emblems or getting the Mon for the competition.

~JKJesse~
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  #7  
Old 08-19-2010, 05:12 PM
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Default Re: Art Capture Method

Quote:
Originally Posted by JokesterJesse View Post
inb4 bad suggestion.


Maybe Charge people to enter so that we dont get Joke entries and stuff. Im thinking maybe like 1k-2k Because you are also have a Chance of getting emblems or getting the Mon for the competition.

~JKJesse~
getting money involved = bad idea
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  #8  
Old 08-19-2010, 05:18 PM
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Default Re: Art Capture Method

Quote:
Originally Posted by HelloImKers View Post
getting money involved = bad idea

Well, the park cost money as well, and they have chances to get some good Mons that aren't to extremely rare and powerful.

Also Im not to fond of Jurors as a Name it kinds sounds like being at court or something. Maybe more like Raters, Critics, Reviewer or Evaluator lol just some suggestions

~JKJesse~



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  #9  
Old 08-19-2010, 05:54 PM
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Default Re: Art Capture Method

This is an interesting idea and solution 2 sounds a bit better, but the problem with this is even if you choose Jurors everyone likes certain art styles more than others making it pretty difficult to judge. At least 3 Jurors per contest but to be honest 5 would be good, you would have to get some of them together at a point and then they would have to discuss each person’s points and everyone would have to be in agreement.

Also I would suggest

0-25 Points = 0 Emblems
26-50 = 1
51-75 = 2
76-100=3

And increase the amount of emblems required for certain things, no need to worry about “joke entries” just give them a 0. If you really have to charge than no more than 2k ;D

If you go with this I would love to see how it turns out :0
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  #10  
Old 08-19-2010, 10:11 PM
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Default Re: Art Capture Method

Hi Adam.

BTW, Harry, this is PE2KCalamity. No long complicated posts today ;D

Okay, getting money involved won't really work; it will just result in less people joining in with the competitions.

And @ Adam's idea, I think it should be as previously suggested, due to how easy it would be to aquire enough emblems for a good 'mon.
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  #11  
Old 08-20-2010, 07:32 PM
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Default Re: Art Capture Method

I'm liking Solution 2. I think that an entry fee should be charged, but should be something very low like $500 or even $250.
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  #12  
Old 08-22-2010, 02:03 AM
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Default Re: Art Capture Method

I think that the best way to resolve the issue of judging criteria, the issue of who's currently qualified, and the issue of participation is to (like many have suggested) hold a test competition (or maybe a series of Beta-Test Competitions).

Here is how I envision them working. We'll set a theme (not a pokemon) and ask any interested members to submit their work. The prize will be determined after all the submissions have been sent, but every participant will win a monetary reward for participating (maybe somewhere between $3,000 and $5,000).

After all the submissions are made, anyone interested in becoming an art reviewer/critic/jurist will judge every piece of work (except their own if they submitted) on a 100 point scale. They can and should choose categories in which they wish to judge the art on, ranging from creativity to technique and beyond. The idea here is to not only understand the judges way of thinking, but also what criteria they each use to judge a piece. From the submitted judging, we can then extrapolate a system based on how each person does it.

And, of course, average out the scores to figure out who won.



Oh, and I'm against an entry fee. The fee of entry is the work involved to submit a piece. And if you don't work hard enough to at least earn 25 or 26 points, then you don't even receive an emblem for participating. Work and effort is the URPG fee, like most of what we have here.
If we have a ton of participation, I might change a few things here and there, but I think this might be the best way to get some real scenario feedback.
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  #13  
Old 08-25-2010, 09:02 PM
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Default Re: Art Capture Method

Finally something I'm good at. I'm an art person, what can I say?
I really like solution two the best, but there is one little thing I have to point out. Sadly I can't use dA to show you these examples as it hates me right now. BUT ANYWAYS.
The only thing I'm concerned about is the art level of some people. Some people have been around longer and have had more time to practice. Others are younger, but are still great. Then there are those who are just picking up drawing and those who are working on it but not really getting anywhere.
So I was thinking art levels that have nothing to do with how great your art is that everyone is given. Kind of like... Hm, I have no idea how to word this.
So lets just say that the theme of the week is sunset.
A skilled art major painted this: http://fineartamerica.com/images-med...dra-hansen.jpg
(no idea who drew this, I got it off google)
While that kind of annoying twelve-year-old who doesn't have a scanner or a tablet drew this on paint: http://s385.photobucket.com/albums/o...setexample.jpg
(^I made that bad on purpose)
~*~*~*~
How can the second entry even compare to the first? The first is stunning, the second looks like crap. So the first wins. Then the next week, same guy wins again. The artist of the second example doesn't have a chance. And that's not fair.
So what about call the second a Level One Artist and the first maybe... a Level Five? Instead of dividing the weeks by Drawn, Graphic or Pixel. We have Five Levels of art. To get put into your level, PM your best or an average artwork to one of these 'jurors' and they will place you. If you feel that you've improved or someone has noticed a definite improvement, you'll be moved up. These Levels have no bearing on how good you are, persay, just how good you are now... If that makes sense. This is just to keep things fair.
I, personally, would consider myself to be Level Two, depending. I've been drawing for a couple years, but I've never really tried to really improve. So maybe now is my chance.

OH, and in the beginning, if we have a few Level Oners and a few, idk, Level Threers, then we'll skip Level Two, Four and Five for a while. But the 'jurors' have to keep the Head of these updated, which can't be two hard, right?

This is just an example, something to think about. I would love to help out with this, as it is something I'm actually good with.

Other that that little loophole, I think this is an awesome idea.

--Tsuki
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  #14  
Old 08-26-2010, 09:21 AM
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Default Re: Art Capture Method

We'll use this trial run to figure out a few things.

- The Level of Participation this will attract
- The criteria for judging a piece
- Generally how the event will work
- Discovering potential judges (Art Professionals)

In regards the last aspect, the event might act as a sort of test to figure out who might help out as an art professional. After all, the first ref probably didn't take a ref test and the first grader probably didn't take a grader test. When building from the ground up, we need to choose those talented in such areas (and admittedly, I am no art person). This will help us find those members.
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  #15  
Old 08-26-2010, 11:34 AM
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Default Re: Art Capture Method

If this goes ahed, I'm SOOOO joining the URPG again, properly and not just because someone needed a noob to battle them >.> I'm pretty 'meh' at drawing, and can't draw hands or feet to save myself, but I reckon I'd do all right at this ^-^ Keep it comin', loving your ideas HKim!
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