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  #1  
Old 12-03-2010, 02:07 PM
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Default Deficit commission proposal

Highlights

I'll probably comb through each one of those highlights a little bit later on. This is obviously big enough in terms of immediate impact IF passed that it warranted its own little article (whereas the NASA thing is interesting in other senses). Comments?
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  #2  
Old 12-03-2010, 03:05 PM
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Default Re: Deficit commission proposal

All very reasonable proposals, every other country in the world is doing something about their finances, about time America did too.
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  #3  
Old 12-03-2010, 04:41 PM
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Default Re: Deficit commission proposal

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Originally Posted by Masami View Post
All very reasonable proposals, every other country in the world is doing something about their finances, about time America did too.
All the moreso that we're doing it before it has to be executed as major austerity measures. From what I've read, I agree with that assessment. All very reasonable.
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  #4  
Old 12-03-2010, 04:50 PM
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Default Re: Deficit commission proposal

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Originally Posted by Lord Khajmer View Post
All the moreso that we're doing it before it has to be executed as major austerity measures. From what I've read, I agree with that assessment. All very reasonable.
Not everything's reasonable in the proposal, but a good number of it is. There are a number of empty promises as well.
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Old 12-03-2010, 05:08 PM
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Default Re: Deficit commission proposal

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Originally Posted by Kenny_C.002 View Post
Not everything's reasonable in the proposal, but a good number of it is. There are a number of empty promises as well.
Expect empty promises as always.
And I don't argue that you're doing it too late or anything, it just seems like the worlds 'sole major power' has been the last to really take action.
Here in the UK we have had the plans done for several months, and they're slowly being inforced now.
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  #6  
Old 12-04-2010, 01:56 AM
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Default Re: Deficit commission proposal

Cuts are too deep in a lot of places, especially in the military and space flight. Requiring airports to fund more security is a bad idea as well. However, a lot of the suggestions are viable.
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  #7  
Old 12-09-2010, 03:23 AM
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Default Re: Deficit commission proposal

Ugh. Before that happens, the deal is going quite sour.

Tax cuts

Honestly it's terrible to give an uneven deal, where the rich gets to keep the tax cuts for another 2 years minimum (which btw would end in 2012, when the Republicans win house again, so they can keep the cuts) plus an estate tax rate drop of 20% AND an increase of tax-free cap by 4 million (wtf? The rich can easily pay 55% off 1 million like it's pocket change anyway) for a measily extension of unemployment insurance for 13 months and a 1y tax break for the workers? Does Obama wonder WHY there's something this uneven happening? What happened to the deficit issue? This deal adds a trillion to the deficit.

Obama even said himself that he can't pass the bill, which is complete BS, as it should be easy with the statistics firmly on his side. Economy is in the top 3 of the things that the American people care about the most, and the polls are heavily in favour of not giving the rich tax cuts. That's a huge trump card that Obama isn't using. If the Republicans are using the people as hostage, let the people turn on those that placed them there in the first place. There is something called "strength in numbers".

Ironically, this deal stinks just as bad as the health care bill. The reason why the Democrats were voting down the health care bill was because there was no public option as intended (you know, the reason why people vote for Obama with a landslide victory in the first place). Now this shows up as well. Now this too. tbh I don't feel sorry for Obama for being a spineless coward, but I do fear for America in 2012. At the rate he's going, anybody can run and have a landslide victory against him in 2012.
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  #8  
Old 12-09-2010, 05:46 PM
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Default Re: Deficit commission proposal

Obama caved in to the Republicans on the taxes? He still doesn't get it, does he?
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  #9  
Old 12-09-2010, 10:45 PM
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Default Re: Deficit commission proposal

Obama doesn't have a choice. The Republicans are in the majority, and they absolutely refuse to accept anything but a full extension. If Obama doesn't compromise, then no bill passes, everyone's taxes rise, the economy tanks, and Obama gets blamed anyways. There's little chance for Americans to turn on Republicans so soon after an overwhelming landslide victory in their favor. There is absolutely nothing Obama can do against the will of the Republicans at this point. It's not about being a coward; he simply doesn't have the power, especially seeing as how the Democratic Party can't agree with itself on anything. Without even the full support of the Democrats, any attempt to oppose the Republicans would just make things worse.
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Last edited by Lusankya; 12-09-2010 at 10:48 PM.
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  #10  
Old 12-10-2010, 12:44 PM
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Default Re: Deficit commission proposal

But how would the tax cuts make anything better? The country is in debt and it still refuses to take taxes from the people? Where does the money to finance the deficit come from then? If the government isn't taking money from the people, then it is spending less. If it is spending less, there's a negative impact on the economy, and don't forget that infrastructure will be left unupgraded. I was under the impression that the public services are already lacking funding and infrastructures such as schools and roads have been suffering. Who are the least dependent on the public services? The rich who gain the most from the tax cuts.

It's basically taking money from the lower classes and feeding it to the upper classes. You may pay less tax, but you get less benefits from the state. If anything not letting the tax cuts go through would improve the economy in the long run.

Unless of course Obama intends to let America sink even deeper into debt, in which case America is still going down in flames.
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  #11  
Old 12-10-2010, 01:24 PM
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Default Re: Deficit commission proposal

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Originally Posted by Lusankya View Post
Obama doesn't have a choice. The Republicans are in the majority, and they absolutely refuse to accept anything but a full extension. If Obama doesn't compromise, then no bill passes, everyone's taxes rise, the economy tanks, and Obama gets blamed anyways. There's little chance for Americans to turn on Republicans so soon after an overwhelming landslide victory in their favor. There is absolutely nothing Obama can do against the will of the Republicans at this point. It's not about being a coward; he simply doesn't have the power, especially seeing as how the Democratic Party can't agree with itself on anything. Without even the full support of the Democrats, any attempt to oppose the Republicans would just make things worse.
That's what I mean. He stands to threaten at least swing-staters with his trump card. Granted, that may not be enough people even with the swing-staters on his side now d/t his blunder in the past 2 years.
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Old 12-10-2010, 07:09 PM
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Default Re: Deficit commission proposal

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Originally Posted by Kenny_C.002 View Post
That's what I mean. He stands to threaten at least swing-staters with his trump card. Granted, that may not be enough people even with the swing-staters on his side now d/t his blunder in the past 2 years.
If he just let the cuts expire, America would be looking at a much smaller debt for years to come, and it would demonstrate that he at least still has some backbone. He kept giving in while he was in power; this was more or less his last chance to prove that he isn't willing to completely bend over backwards for anything the Republicans want him to do so he can take the blame and get removed from President.

I highly doubt that tax increases would harm the economy in any way. In this sort of economy, fewer people are willing to shell out; most people would be trying to save, so the increased tax would eat into this surplus. The top 2% who would pay millions or even billions won't even touch their money so it doesn't matter. And then you can hand out larger subsidies and unemployment benefits for those who can't make ends meet with or without the tax increase because there's so much tax money from the upper class flowing in.

He doesn't seem to be willing to do the right thing; just as with the healthcare bill, and with this.
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  #13  
Old 12-10-2010, 08:51 PM
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Default Re: Deficit commission proposal

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Originally Posted by Starkipraggy View Post
But how would the tax cuts make anything better? The country is in debt and it still refuses to take taxes from the people? Where does the money to finance the deficit come from then? If the government isn't taking money from the people, then it is spending less. If it is spending less, there's a negative impact on the economy, and don't forget that infrastructure will be left unupgraded. I was under the impression that the public services are already lacking funding and infrastructures such as schools and roads have been suffering. Who are the least dependent on the public services? The rich who gain the most from the tax cuts.

It's basically taking money from the lower classes and feeding it to the upper classes. You may pay less tax, but you get less benefits from the state. If anything not letting the tax cuts go through would improve the economy in the long run.

Unless of course Obama intends to let America sink even deeper into debt, in which case America is still going down in flames.
Um, what? America is on the verge of going into another recession, our growth isn't even enough to keep up with the people entering the workforce to keep unemployment constant, ANY negative pressure to the economy could cause a second recession. The economy >>>>>>> the national debt as a short-term priority, this doesn't take a genius to figure out. If we have another recession, the national debt is still going to grow; tax cuts now actually will increase our total revenue over a period of time since the economy won't tank. Saying that increased taxes won't hurt an economy on the verge of tipping over is pure ignorance. It would be pure insanity to raise taxes for the low and middle class right now. A tight government money policy that was concerned with balancing the budget is part of what caused made the Great Depression to be the Great Depression.
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  #14  
Old 12-10-2010, 10:24 PM
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Default Re: Deficit commission proposal

I was thrilled when I heard that Obama actually did something sensible and went for the compromise.

Now I'm not a fan of extending the cuts for the top 2%, but the fact is that taxes can't go up for the lower and middle class. That is the one thing that every single one of us agreed on. The Democrats, the Republicans, the Independents, the common people, the government higher ups, and of course, the bloody economists. Republicans weren't going to budge on it without that top 2% tax cuts. It was a choice for Obama between people warring with each other in 2012 over whether it was the Dems fault for not just doing it for the sake of the common people or the Republicans fault for not passing the lower and middle class extensions and then moving on to the top 2% while the rest of the people in neutral said "they both suck" and don't come out to vote, further removing the centrist voice from the voting booths, or having both sides work together on something in a bipartisan manner, compromising so that both got something they wanted, and in the end evveryone benefits, leading people like me who before were starting to get really sick of all of it to say "alright, they're learning from their mistakes" and go out and vote, likely for Obama for being the one to have the good sense to reach out to the GOP and make this compromise in the first place so that all our taxes didn't go sky high. In other words, this was altogether a politically brilliant move from Obama, and has reinspired my faith in him that he could actually play the role of a bipartisan president (albeit now with a check on his ability to stray leftwards in the form of the Republican house)
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  #15  
Old 12-13-2010, 08:21 AM
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Default Re: Deficit commission proposal

If you increase tax but increase subsidies to the lower and middle class to offset the tax, wouldn't that work out as well?

I was under the impression that people would be trying to save whatever they can, so instead of letting them save the little money it can get taxed so you can subsidise them.
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