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  #31  
Old 07-01-2010, 03:55 AM
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Default Re: [WAR IX] Debate Section

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Originally Posted by Lusankya View Post
You're talking about the man who claimed he could create a death ray that would destroy aircraft from 250 miles away and kill armies of millions.
Genius and insanity are two sides of the same coin. Nikola Tesla gave the world, among other things, modern AC current technology radio broadcasting, which, combined, means that Nikola Tesla is essentially responsible for us having this debate right now. He laid the groundwork for television, radio, wireless technology and quantum entanglement. So yeah, I think he's kind of entitled to claim he can create a death ray.
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  #32  
Old 07-01-2010, 04:00 AM
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Default Re: [WAR IX] Debate Section

And he was after fair pay for everyone after Thomas Edison effectively stole 10 grand from him Source: My HSC physics textbook.
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Last edited by pman; 07-01-2010 at 10:41 AM.
  #33  
Old 07-01-2010, 12:33 PM
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Default Re: [WAR IX] Debate Section

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Originally Posted by Lord Khajmer View Post
Genius and insanity are two sides of the same coin. Nikola Tesla gave the world, among other things, modern AC current technology radio broadcasting, which, combined, means that Nikola Tesla is essentially responsible for us having this debate right now. He laid the groundwork for television, radio, wireless technology and quantum entanglement. So yeah, I think he's kind of entitled to claim he can create a death ray.
Doesn't make him much of a philanthropist though. The capabilities of Nikola Tesla asides, this debate has fallen completely off topic.
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  #34  
Old 07-01-2010, 12:35 PM
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Default Re: [WAR IX] Debate Section

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Doesn't make him much of a philanthropist though. The capabilities of Nikola Tesla asides, this debate has fallen completely off topic.
Or has it?

As I've mentioned Tesla believed in a fair system with security for all employees, if thats not a form of socialism, I'm not sure what is!
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  #35  
Old 07-01-2010, 02:44 PM
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Default Re: [WAR IX] Debate Section

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Doesn't make him much of a philanthropist though. The capabilities of Nikola Tesla asides, this debate has fallen completely off topic.
I consider it on topic, as I'm referring to a man who did not invent any innovate for the sake of money but for the sake of advancement. Just as a note, he was an original partner in the first power company to use his alternating current system, and gave up his patent and his partnership because his cut was preventing the company from making enough money and being able to expand. The point relating? People don't just innovate or invent for personal gain, there are those who just want the betterment of humanity, and often those are the people who really go all out, as is the case with Nikola Tesla. Specifically because they aren't worried about maximizing profit and therefore aren't quite as stingy.
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  #36  
Old 07-01-2010, 04:43 PM
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Default Re: [WAR IX] Debate Section

Tesla was very much concerned with money. The reason why he left Edison in the first place was because he didn't think Edison was paying him enough (something that can only be done in a Capitalist economy, as under a Socialist system he would be paid the same anywhere). He didn't die in debt because of unfair business practices, he died in massive debt because he spent massive amounts of money inventing things that never caught on in his lifetime. He was an excellent scientist and engineer, but a very poor businessman.

Not to mention he was insane. Relying on an insane person to support your argument is not good support. If Socialism can only work when everyone is insane, it is without a doubt worse than Capitalism.
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Dali: "I know what the picture should be ... We take a duck and put some dynamite in its derriere. When the duck explodes, I jump and you take the picture."
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Last edited by Lusankya; 07-01-2010 at 04:46 PM.
  #37  
Old 07-02-2010, 12:00 AM
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How was Tesla insane? He was a man of vision, a genius. Of course, with genius comes a touch of madness. You say that he left because Edison wasn't paying him enough. This is false, Tesla left Edison because he was promised 10,000 dollars for an invention but then not payed a cent. It wasn't a matter of being payed more but rather a matter of being payed at all. He would have at least had an income under socialism.
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  #38  
Old 07-02-2010, 12:18 AM
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Default Re: [WAR IX] Debate Section

Tesla worked for Edison and was paid $18 a week. He requested a raise to $25 a week and left when Edison refused. He had an income; he just wanted more. He wasn't forced to resign; he resigned of his own free will. Under a Socialist system, if you are dissatisfied with your pay, there is nothing you can do about it. In a Capitalist economy, you have the option of resigning with a hope of finding something that pays better, as Tesla did. Yes, he deserved to be paid more, but it proves that you are wrong when you say Tesla didn't care about money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla

Quote:
Earning US$18 per week, Tesla would have had to work for 53 years to earn the amount he was promised. The offer was equal to the initial capital of the company. Tesla immediately resigned when he was refused a raise to US$25 per week
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Dali: "I know what the picture should be ... We take a duck and put some dynamite in its derriere. When the duck explodes, I jump and you take the picture."
Halsman: "Don't forget that we are in America. We will be put in prison if we start exploding ducks."
Dali: "You're right. Let's take some cats and splash them with water."

Last edited by Lusankya; 07-02-2010 at 12:27 AM.
  #39  
Old 07-02-2010, 12:21 AM
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Default Re: [WAR IX] Debate Section

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Originally Posted by Lusankya View Post
Tesla worked for Edison and was paid $18 a week. He requested a raise to $25 a week and left when Edison refused. He had an income; he just wanted more. He wasn't forced to resign; he resigned of his own free will. Under a Socialist system, if you are dissatisfied with your pay, there is nothing you can do about it. In a Capitalist economy, you have the option of resigning with a hope of finding something that pays better, as Tesla did. Yes, he deserved to be paid more, but it proves that you are wrong when you say Tesla didn't care about money.
But he didn't leave because he was refused a payrise (please proove that he did), He left because Edison didn't pay him the $10,000 he was promised. He wasn't payed a cent of it. ("Physics", Jacaranda Publishing, Andrieson Et Al)
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  #40  
Old 07-02-2010, 12:29 AM
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Default Re: [WAR IX] Debate Section

Read edited post. (I can't believe I forgot to cite that)

Btw, citing a source means nothing when nobody else has access to that source. For all I know you are making things up.
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  #41  
Old 07-02-2010, 01:27 AM
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Default Re: [WAR IX] Debate Section

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusankya View Post
Read edited post. (I can't believe I forgot to cite that)

Btw, citing a source means nothing when nobody else has access to that source. For all I know you are making things up.
I know, I know but my source is 100 times more reliable than wikipedia!

And with your citation, it appears we are arguing the same thing, Edison offered him a lump sun and didn't pay!

Hopefully the info is here

otherwise, I'm sure the value is on wikipedia!

Actrually, wikipedia says I am wrong but I'm happy to go with the wiki source as it says it was $50,000.
Quote:
Tesla claimed he was offered US$50,000 (~ US$1.1 million in 2007, adjusted for inflation)[27] if he redesigned Edison's inefficient motor and generators, making an improvement in both service and economy.[21]:54–57 In 1885 when Tesla inquired about the payment for his work, Edison replied, "Tesla, you don't understand our American humor," thus breaking his word.[28][29] Earning US$18 per week, Tesla would have had to work for 53 years to earn the amount he was promised. The offer was equal to the initial capital of the company. Tesla immediately resigned when he was refused a raise to US$25 per week.
The fact is, the major contributing factor to Tesla working for Westinghouse is that he wasn't payed that 50k, if he had been, he wouldn't have asked for the pay rise in the first place.
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Last edited by pman; 07-02-2010 at 01:30 AM.
  #42  
Old 07-02-2010, 01:55 AM
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Default Re: [WAR IX] Debate Section

Which has nothing to do with Capitalism vs Socialism. Cheating, by its very nature, occurs regardless of the system the cheating occurs in. A Socialist system would not magically make it impossible to steal money from the rightful owner or renege on the deal. If anything, Tesla would never have been offered the money in the first place.
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Dali: "You're right. Let's take some cats and splash them with water."
  #43  
Old 07-02-2010, 03:04 AM
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Default Re: [WAR IX] Debate Section

He wouldn't, and therefore could not have been robbed of money that did not exist! It's nice to see that you are finally getting my point.
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  #44  
Old 07-02-2010, 03:21 AM
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Default Re: [WAR IX] Debate Section

Nature is a journal, not a magazine. Note the difference in scientific method and peer evaluation. It is noted to have journalistic integrity because of its scientific rigour. That is, unless you're actually devaluing basically all of science, considering Nature is one of the top 4 journals in science...

Mind steering the debate back to topic?
  #45  
Old 07-02-2010, 03:44 AM
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Default Re: [WAR IX] Debate Section

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He wouldn't, and therefore could not have been robbed of money that did not exist! It's nice to see that you are finally getting my point.
So, your point is that under Socialism, everyone is as poor as the poorest people? In that case, Capitalism is 100% better than Socialism, because there's a hefty percentage of middle-class people and a small percentage of wealthy people, instead of everyone living like the bottom 10%.

@Kenny: Yes, I believe I mentioned that, but it was ignored due to pman's astonishing ability to ignore things that attack his arguments.

Kenny says: Yeah that wasn't specifically pointed at anyone. I just saw someone criticizing Nature somewhere, and just want to point it out.
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Dali: "I know what the picture should be ... We take a duck and put some dynamite in its derriere. When the duck explodes, I jump and you take the picture."
Halsman: "Don't forget that we are in America. We will be put in prison if we start exploding ducks."
Dali: "You're right. Let's take some cats and splash them with water."

Last edited by Kenny_C.002; 07-02-2010 at 04:03 AM.
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