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  #16  
Old 05-28-2010, 06:33 PM
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Default Re: Your Thoughts on War on Terror

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Originally Posted by TitaniumAnimations View Post
The Afghanis can't take care of themselves, their economy... heh... what economy? Their military is non existent, and they are still living in a semi-tribal state. They cannot take care of themselves. If we pulled out of Afghanistan, the citizen's lives would go back into tyranny and anarchy.
but why are we not in sudan, kongo, ethiopia etc... which are all countries that have it far worse than afghanistan.
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  #17  
Old 05-28-2010, 06:34 PM
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Default Re: Your Thoughts on War on Terror

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Originally Posted by TitaniumAnimations View Post
The Afghanis can't take care of themselves, their economy... heh... what economy? Their military is non existent, and they are still living in a semi-tribal state. They cannot take care of themselves.
This part is reminiscent of arguments in favor of imperialism, which was undoubtedly one of the most oppressive systems in world history.

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If we pulled out of Afghanistan, the citizen's lives would go back into tyranny and anarchy.
This is true in that, as I stated, if we get out of Afghanistan too quickly it will easily crumble and we'll have to go right back in. It is false in that tyranny, a system where one person controls everything governmentally, and anarchy, a system in which there is no governmental power, can not coexist.
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  #18  
Old 05-28-2010, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: Your Thoughts on War on Terror

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Originally Posted by Lord Khajmer View Post
This part is reminiscent of arguments in favor of imperialism, which was undoubtedly one of the most oppressive systems in world history.



This is true in that, as I stated, if we get out of Afghanistan too quickly it will easily crumble and we'll have to go right back in. It is false in that tyranny, a system where one person controls everything governmentally, and anarchy, a system in which there is no governmental power, can not coexist.
but if thats the case, why are we not in other countries that are far worse off than afghanistan, why are we only helping afghanistan instead of helping the other 50 pr so countries that are worse off.

i think this is just some weird hunt for osama bin laden, which will only lead to alqeada attacking the us once again which will lead to a war that is never going to end, while if we wimply give up and let them do as they wish there will be no more attacks on american soil and we can forget about it.

and dont give me the argument that people will suffer if we do, cause people are suffering in many other places but as long as it doesnt affect america you dont care. and neither does the rest of the world
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  #19  
Old 05-28-2010, 06:52 PM
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Default Re: Your Thoughts on War on Terror

The reason we aren't in other countries is because we only have one army! It can only be in one place! And, the reason we aren't in other countries is because they haven't destroyed the World Trade Center, Twin Towers, and half the Pentagon.

But, this contradicts what I said in an early post. What I said is partially true and partially not. The real reason why we are there is to secure oil in our personal interest. But, some people (including me) hope and think otherwise.
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  #20  
Old 05-28-2010, 07:06 PM
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Default Re: Your Thoughts on War on Terror

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Originally Posted by TitaniumAnimations View Post
The reason we aren't in other countries is because we only have one army! It can only be in one place! And, the reason we aren't in other countries is because they haven't destroyed the World Trade Center, Twin Towers, and half the Pentagon.
we only have one army but it can be in several places at once. in fact it quite common for an army to be in several places at once.

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Originally Posted by TitaniumAnimations View Post
but, this contradicts what I said in an early post. What I said is partially true and partially not. The real reason why we are there is to secure oil in our personal interest. But, some people (including me) hope and think otherwise.
which is why we should leave, america is one of the richest countries in the world if not the richest why do you guys need any more money?
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  #21  
Old 05-28-2010, 07:27 PM
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Default Re: Your Thoughts on War on Terror

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So if someone shoots your best friend in the face you're going to let the guy go free? Jeeze, the reason we're there is because the dude freakin' attacked us and killed thousands of innocent Americans.
and in response we go ahead an kill millions of innocent Afghani's

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Originally Posted by metal sonic View Post
If we pull out now, terrorists will just march right back in, topple the newly-established government, and make another hostile country.
they will do that anyways

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Originally Posted by metal sonic View Post
And about the 'If we give up they won't attack again' thing; how do YOU know that? They attacked us with no reason whatsoever;
no, im saying they will attack us (you) again anyways, which is why you should spend your time building up your defenses rather than trying to prevent the un-preventable.


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Originally Posted by metal sonic View Post
if we let them do whatever (which is what was done with Hitler, mind you, appeasement), we'll more likely than not get attacked again. That's why we're in there to get rid of them; you can't attack a country if you're dead or rotting in prison.
no, but the other guy that also has a problem with you just might.
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  #22  
Old 05-28-2010, 07:45 PM
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Default Re: Your Thoughts on War on Terror

I like how we all judge Afghanistan on the fact it is tribal...

Whats wrong with that? Just because a country doesn't live in shiny silver cities doens't mean it's any less advanced. Afghanistan is nothing short of a civilised nation, it has doctors, military, government.

Russia's goverment is even more corrupt than the Afghan's, yet they're classed as a world power.

And whoever said Afghanistan doesn't have an army, is ridiculous. They have a HELL of alot of troops, some better trained than others, but regardless they have alot of troops.

The reason Afghanistan is so lawless is mainly because of the terrain. Alot of Afghan cities and villages are in the mountains, over mountains, through harsh-desert, etc etc.

This is why the Soviets, British and many other invaders have always failed to control Afghanistan, the terrain is too harsh.
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  #23  
Old 05-28-2010, 07:59 PM
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Default Re: Your Thoughts on War on Terror

I dont think there will ever be a peace in the middle east...first of all there's the Israelis and the Palestinians, then there's the Sunni and Shiite Muslims which always fight.
Yeah I think our attack was justified by 9/11 at first but to stay this long....
Besides even if we stay or leave there wont be order there. Iraq has the 2 Muslim groups that always fight and we're just caught in the middle of it.
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  #24  
Old 05-28-2010, 08:35 PM
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Default Re: Your Thoughts on War on Terror

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Originally Posted by Masami View Post
I like how we all judge Afghanistan on the fact it is tribal...

Whats wrong with that? Just because a country doesn't live in shiny silver cities doens't mean it's any less advanced. Afghanistan is nothing short of a civilised nation, it has doctors, military, government.

Russia's goverment is even more corrupt than the Afghan's, yet they're classed as a world power.

And whoever said Afghanistan doesn't have an army, is ridiculous. They have a HELL of alot of troops, some better trained than others, but regardless they have alot of troops.

The reason Afghanistan is so lawless is mainly because of the terrain. Alot of Afghan cities and villages are in the mountains, over mountains, through harsh-desert, etc etc.

This is why the Soviets, British and many other invaders have always failed to control Afghanistan, the terrain is too harsh.




Being Tribal causes intermarriage (resulting in mental retardation). Tribalism also prevents commerce, technology, and freedom.

Freedom? - You can't leave the tribe. You can't join another tribe.

Technology? - The tribe rejects all technology from outsiders and other tribes.

Commerce? - Do you see any millionaires hanging around Afghanistan?

Oh, and Afghanistan doesn't have a military, that would be the Taliban that our troops are fighting against.

Afghanistan does not have a government (not an organized one). They can't get anything done and they obviously won't get anything done without aid or peace. I think the aid will come before the peace.


Yeah, I agree with you on the British side of things. Especially since they created the mess over there about 40 years earlier...
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  #25  
Old 05-28-2010, 08:44 PM
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Default Re: Your Thoughts on War on Terror

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Originally Posted by TitaniumAnimations View Post
Being Tribal causes intermarriage (resulting in mental retardation). Tribalism also prevents commerce, technology, and freedom.

Freedom? - You can't leave the tribe. You can't join another tribe.

Technology? - The tribe rejects all technology from outsiders and other tribes.

Commerce? - Do you see any millionaires hanging around Afghanistan?

Oh, and Afghanistan doesn't have a military, that would be the Taliban that our troops are fighting against.

Afghanistan does not have a government (not an organized one). They can't get anything done and they obviously won't get anything done without aid or peace. I think the aid will come before the peace.


Yeah, I agree with you on the British side of things. Especially since they created the mess over there about 40 years earlier...
What are you even on about? Have you studied Afghan history, at all?

Tribe? You could leacve the tride but why would you? Your tribe isn't your 'village', a tribe is a race of Afghanistan. There's around 7/8 major tribes that Afghanistan is split up into, all Muslim.

And Afghanistan was one of the wealthiest countrys in the world not long ago, do you have any idea on the price of an Afghan carpet?

The tride doesn't reject technology at all, many Afghans are taking up carears in nursing.

No Military? You do realise NATO is currently in a huge operation to train over 200, 000 Afghan troops properly? You do also realise that the American military can#'t train their troops for crap. It's so easy and short.

EDIT: I should also add that Britain supported the mujahideen against the soviets 30 years ago.
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  #26  
Old 05-28-2010, 09:33 PM
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Default Re: Your Thoughts on War on Terror

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EDIT: I should also add that Britain supported the mujahideen against the soviets 30 years ago.
Yeah, and then the Taliban won and took over.

And yes due to their religious beliefs anything from the west is bad so...Im going to say theyre not technologically advanced. That doesnt necessarily make them inferior though.

And what are you saying that Americans cant train their troops? We have one of the strongest armies in the world....
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  #27  
Old 05-28-2010, 10:48 PM
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Default Re: Your Thoughts on War on Terror

I figure, as someone actually INVOLVED in the War on Terror (for those of you uninformed, I'm a U.S. soldier), I could help with input on this subject as well.

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Originally Posted by Psychedelic Shroomish View Post
The real terrorists are in the White House!
...This is your opinion, so I won't shoot it down. However, those are pretty severe words to use nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by Ayotui View Post
i think this is just some weird hunt for osama bin laden, which will only lead to alqeada attacking the us once again which will lead to a war that is never going to end, while if we simply give up and let them do as they wish there will be no more attacks on american soil and we can forget about it.
...Simply give up? It's not nearly so simple as you think. Not only would it be extremely foolish to pull out now, due to the unstable conditions the countries are in at the moment, but "simply" giving up will "simply" embolden the terrorists.

Think about it: if we give up, then that is a defeat. The terrorist will realize that they have just defeated the greatest military in the world (little arrogance there, yes, I think we have earned it). They will know that we are not invincible and unbeatable, and they will then conduct more horrors, kill more people, and they would feel either justified in doing this, or strong enough to do it, since even the U.S. could not beat them. So no, we cannot "simply" give up. Nothing in war is nearly that simple.

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Originally Posted by Ayotui View Post
and dont give me the argument that people will suffer if we do, cause people are suffering in many other places but as long as it doesnt affect america you dont care. and neither does the rest of the world
The thing is, America DOES care a lot more than you think. You don't think our military is in the Middle East and ONLY the middle East, do you? We only have so much we can support with, only so much we can spare. We don't have an infinite amount of men and supplies.

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Originally Posted by TitaniumAnimations View Post
The reason we aren't in other countries is because we only have one army! It can only be in one place! And, the reason we aren't in other countries is because they haven't destroyed the World Trade Center, Twin Towers, and half the Pentagon.
That is a very skewed view to look at it. We don't go to other countries that are just a threat, you realize. We do supply aid and supplies to nations in need. Recent case in point: Haiti.

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Originally Posted by TitaniumAnimations View Post
But, this contradicts what I said in an early post. What I said is partially true and partially not. The real reason why we are there is to secure oil in our personal interest. But, some people (including me) hope and think otherwise.
*sighs* OMFG, not another one...

Look, for any other moron out there that says we're there for the money, stop right there (not calling you a moron, TitaniumAnimations, just anyone else that continues the argument after this one). First and foremost, we are not there for oil. We are not there for money. The government is not out to make money and screw everyone else in the world over. I dunno why the hell anyone in this country would even WANT to believe this utter farce. As for those outside the country, well, they haven't viewed it from the inside, either.

Once and for all, people, Americans are not the Devil's children, only after death, control, and money, okay? Get off our backs and stfu.

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Originally Posted by Ayotui View Post
and in response we go ahead an kill millions of innocent Afghani's
Right, ALL we're doing over there is murdering innocents and hoping to get actual terrorists, while they do absolutely nothing. You people make me sick.

They are murdering their OWN innocent people for chances to get at us! And they justify it by skewing their own religion. Murder of the followers of their own religion absolutely cannot be justified by killing a small number of non-believers. Yes, innocents have died because of mistakes made by our military, I won't deny that. But our enemies over in the Middle East are consciously killing innocents, thinking they have every freakin' right in the world!

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Originally Posted by Ayotui View Post
they will do that anyways
And that means we should stop fighting against terror, tyranny, denial of freedoms, and death?

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Originally Posted by Ayotui View Post
no, im saying they will attack us (you) again anyways, which is why you should spend your time building up your defenses rather than trying to prevent the un-preventable.
Unpreventable, right. We seem to be preventing attempted terrorist attacks lately (Christmas underpants bomber, Time Square bomber). They are not unpreventable. And I do hope you realize that we are building up our defenses at the same time, right? Seriously, we're not as stupid as you think we are.

~*****~

*sighs* Alright, people, listen. We haven't handled this War on Terror the best every step of the way, no. But please realize that we are only trying to do the right thing while hunting down the bastards who would try to harm our fair country. We're not out to kill those who aren't under our flag. We're not there to line our pockets. and we certainly aren't doing the Devil's work.

So stop making yourselves look less intelligent than you are, and enough with the unfounded and hateful accusations. It moronic -_-
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  #28  
Old 05-28-2010, 10:58 PM
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Default Re: Your Thoughts on War on Terror

No offense Ayotui, but how old are you? "If we stop attacking them, they'll stop attacking us?" We didn't attack them, and 9/11 happened. We didn't attack them, and the first WTC bombing happened. Nobody attacked the shooters at Columbine or Virginia Tech, nobody attacked the Unabomber, nobody attacked Hitler or Tojo or Genghis Khan. The worst atrocities in history happen precisely because one of the sides either didn't or couldn't fight back. For the terrorists, us not responding is merely a sign of weakness, a weakness they will exploit.

On the tribes subject: Tribes in Afghanistan (and Africa, though that's a different subject) are not the kind of tribe you see in Hollywood movies where a bunch of savage living in tents gather together for pagan rituals involving dancing around fires and painting stripes on their bodies. These tribes are more like a combination of a race, political party, and culture. "Tribes" are not a symbol of backwardness.
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  #29  
Old 05-29-2010, 02:00 AM
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Default Re: Your Thoughts on War on Terror

I personally think that War is a good thing(If your side is winning). Why? Because it's extremely profitable.

^ I'm sure that's a dead giveaway that I'm from the US.


Terror is..well, bad i guess. I truly don't care really. Why? Not afraid really. And no, I'm not trying to play that "internet tough guy" role, I'm just clearly stating, and with all honesty, that I don't care and that I'm not afraid. I do have to say, mainly it's probably because I'm not living in a place where it's terror-magnet or a war is going on. Glad to live in the US. (Please, spare me the negativity on the US, i don't care)
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  #30  
Old 05-29-2010, 02:32 AM
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Default Re: Your Thoughts on War on Terror

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I personally think that War is a good thing(If your side is winning). Why? Because it's extremely profitable.
Another ridiculously simplistic viewpoint... any benefits from a "real" offensive war won't outweigh the minuses for generations, until the infrastructure can be rebuilt, the people pacified, and the resources exploited. (this depends on how easy the war is, of course, hence why the "real" is in quotes; I'm assuming that the aggressor isn't just steamrolling the enemy). The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan definitely won't even begin to be materially profitable for generations, if ever, except by weakening Al-Qaeda and reducing the potential for attack. But war is only "extremely profitable" in exceedingly few cases; the only one I can think of off the top of my head is the Mexican-American War, with all other wars in American history being better off never fought at all (WWII was profitable, but more in the sense that it destroyed everyone else than yielded any material profit for the US).

To summarize: Wars are rarely profitable, even for the winner, and even if they are, the results won't show for generations, which is probably way more than someone like you would care about. The wars the US are involved in right now will probably never provide any sort of real profit.
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