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  #76  
Old 05-29-2010, 04:34 AM
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Default Re: [PVS] A Possible Alternative to Smogon Tiers

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutter kirby View Post
Ummm, the rotom formes are way better than normal rotom, but they have the same value.

This has to be changed...
Objectively, the only difference is a single move. Unless some special rule is in place just for Rotom.

Honestly, the only reason regular Rotom isn't used as much is because there are a few other options with a single move difference. Not that he is any less good, just no reason to choose the regular usage wise when you could use another form. That one extra move doesn't make it THAT much more versatile, does it?

Frankly I don't think it needs changed, but maybe that's just me. I'm all for adding a special rule though and adding some value if most people agree. Just stating my opinion is all. We could easily tack on an extra point of two for the other forms.
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  #77  
Old 05-29-2010, 12:13 PM
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Default Re: [PVS] A Possible Alternative to Smogon Tiers

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Originally Posted by Dragoon952 View Post
Objectively, the only difference is a single move. Unless some special rule is in place just for Rotom.

Honestly, the only reason regular Rotom isn't used as much is because there are a few other options with a single move difference. Not that he is any less good, just no reason to choose the regular usage wise when you could use another form. That one extra move doesn't make it THAT much more versatile, does it?

Frankly I don't think it needs changed, but maybe that's just me. I'm all for adding a special rule though and adding some value if most people agree. Just stating my opinion is all. We could easily tack on an extra point of two for the other forms.
The extra moves help the rotom formes, but I still see the rotom formes being used way more than the normal one even without the special moves.

This is because the rotom formes has much higher defences, so it can wall way more pokemon, like gyarados, fighting types, like heracross or hitmonlee, and steel types, like metagross or scizor, or even the cheap jirachi. It also hits harder than the normal rotom, with its higher base sp atk. Because of these things, it can pull off normal rotom's sets (sub charge, sub pain split, subcharge, trickscarf/specs, rest talk, or just the walling set) way better, so rotom is greatly outclassed by it.

The special moves is just an added bonus, giving it great coverage, depending on the move.

There is a reason that rotom was not used alot (in OU) but became a top tier OU when the formes came out. So if you give both the exact same points, then It would seem that normal rotom would barely be used.

You do realize that rotom-A is one of the top tier (top 10) OU pokemon, right? It deserves more points, at least more than 11 points, and it is clearly better than it's original form.

Are these pounts good enough for you? (and yes I've tested the rotom formes a lot, so I know how good he is. I've also tried normal rotom in OU, but it failed, so I'm also speaking from experience.)
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  #78  
Old 05-29-2010, 07:13 PM
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Default Re: [PVS] A Possible Alternative to Smogon Tiers

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Originally Posted by cutter kirby View Post
The extra moves help the rotom formes, but I still see the rotom formes being used way more than the normal one even without the special moves.

This is because the rotom formes has much higher defences, so it can wall way more pokemon, like gyarados, fighting types, like heracross or hitmonlee, and steel types, like metagross or scizor, or even the cheap jirachi. It also hits harder than the normal rotom, with its higher base sp atk. Because of these things, it can pull off normal rotom's sets (sub charge, sub pain split, subcharge, trickscarf/specs, rest talk, or just the walling set) way better, so rotom is greatly outclassed by it.

The special moves is just an added bonus, giving it great coverage, depending on the move.

There is a reason that rotom was not used alot (in OU) but became a top tier OU when the formes came out. So if you give both the exact same points, then It would seem that normal rotom would barely be used.

You do realize that rotom-A is one of the top tier (top 10) OU pokemon, right? It deserves more points, at least more than 11 points, and it is clearly better than it's original form.

Are these pounts good enough for you? (and yes I've tested the rotom formes a lot, so I know how good he is. I've also tried normal rotom in OU, but it failed, so I'm also speaking from experience.)
Funny story. I never realized the rotom forms had different stats. I calculated them all with regular rotom stats. Needless to say, doofus move on ,my part.

I'll get those redone when I can and see how much that changes things.
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  #79  
Old 05-29-2010, 07:58 PM
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Default Re: [PVS] A Possible Alternative to Smogon Tiers

what of the fate of the ubers and susspect ubers? I see garchomp is on the list as well as latias both regarded as susspect ubers. I do so like the idea of this, and i feel it would be a shame as i have dessgused with max to ban ubers entirely unless they are proven to be broken for this metagame.
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  #80  
Old 05-29-2010, 09:57 PM
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Default Re: [PVS] A Possible Alternative to Smogon Tiers

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Originally Posted by takeru takaishi View Post
what of the fate of the ubers and susspect ubers? I see garchomp is on the list as well as latias both regarded as susspect ubers. I do so like the idea of this, and i feel it would be a shame as i have dessgused with max to ban ubers entirely unless they are proven to be broken for this metagame.
I just haven't gotten to them yet to be honest. I can do them next. Before the tweaks and other things I've been working on, they were definitely in the high 20's. I really think they will be usable, just very expensive.

I just did Garchomp to see what he'd be and figured I throw him out there. Latias was considered an OU so I just did it with the OU. If there is a clamor for Ubers I wouldn't mind doing them next rather than continuing through the NU tier.
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  #81  
Old 05-31-2010, 10:48 AM
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Default Re: [PVS] A Possible Alternative to Smogon Tiers

Just finished crunching all of the numbers and got around 70-78 as a possible team value total. Does that seem a bit high/low to anyone? I left out Pokemon such as the Rotom Formes, Miltank and Slowking as they don't have their values yet. Would Slowking have the same value as Slowbro, or would Nasty Plot and its stat arrangement make a significant difference?
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Last edited by Max211; 05-31-2010 at 01:00 PM.
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  #82  
Old 06-01-2010, 08:51 PM
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Default Re: [PVS] A Possible Alternative to Smogon Tiers

The Rotom forms were indeed off because I missed their different base stats. So, here are the actual Rotom numbers:

Rotom 11 109
Rotom (Fan) 12 124
Rotom (Frost) 13 125
Rotom (Heat) 12 122
Rotom (Mow) 12 122
Rotom (Wash) 12 124
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  #83  
Old 06-02-2010, 01:40 AM
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Default Re: [PVS] A Possible Alternative to Smogon Tiers

I can see this working amazingly, however the only way it would be effective is if smogon works with serebii to perfect it. Ubers are still Uber because they don't have true counters, just because there is a limit on the points that doesn't mean that they can still be used. But thats just my opinion, I really like the idea once agian :D
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  #84  
Old 06-02-2010, 04:10 AM
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Default Re: [PVS] A Possible Alternative to Smogon Tiers

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Originally Posted by Moe2 View Post
I can see this working amazingly, however the only way it would be effective is if smogon works with serebii to perfect it. Ubers are still Uber because they don't have true counters, just because there is a limit on the points that doesn't mean that they can still be used. But thats just my opinion, I really like the idea once agian :D
Well, it all depends. I'd like to see what happens when an Uber gets limited support. I see that they are debating Salamence right now over at smogon, and it is once again showing me how this would make an entirely different game.

If we're working with a total value of, say, 70 points for a battle, then what if you take that Garchomp at 20? You'd 50 points to spread over 5 other pokemon, or an average of 10 a piece. Another OU pokemon would most likely put you even further in the hole. What if it was a 65 point battle and you only had 45 points over those other 5 pokemon left (average of 9 a piece)?

I could see it getting interesting. Not only could it allow the possibility of an uber popping up (remember, I'm thinking most Ubers are definitely going to be well over 25 when all is said and done), but it gives room for some NU's to pop up, too. It's just a matter of finding that magic team value number that gives the most enjoyable mixed environment. Then, from there, we can start making other "weight classes" to tailor make other styles of play.

That aside, I'm glad you like it. Feel free to test it out as is if you want and let me know what you think. I believe there are enough done that it could give you enough options.
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  #85  
Old 06-05-2010, 07:14 PM
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Default Re: [PVS] A Possible Alternative to Smogon Tiers

6 Vs. 6
Single Battle
NO Disconnecting
No hax items, Pokemon etc.
No ubers/hacks/legends
Sleep Clause
Species Clause
OHKO Clause

In game name-Alexa
FC-1033-4682-4719

Best reached by PM.
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  #86  
Old 06-15-2010, 12:12 AM
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Default Re: [PVS] A Possible Alternative to Smogon Tiers

In case anyone's wanting to try out the PVS system, 70-point battles seem to work quite well.

Dragoon, if you want a hand with some of the values, I could try out a few of those NUs for you. Just one question beforehand though; how was it that you modified the old formulae?
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  #87  
Old 06-26-2010, 06:20 AM
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Default Re: [PVS] A Possible Alternative to Smogon Tiers

Bump.

Dragoon, do you think we should include the event moves for Crown Celebi and the Legendary Beasts?
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  #88  
Old 07-01-2010, 06:31 PM
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Default Re: [PVS] A Possible Alternative to Smogon Tiers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max211 View Post
Bump.

Dragoon, do you think we should include the event moves for Crown Celebi and the Legendary Beasts?
I think so, because they might show up here and become available at some point.
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  #89  
Old 07-16-2010, 02:06 PM
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Default Re: [PVS] A Possible Alternative to Smogon Tiers

That's me back from Tenerife, so i'll be able to contribute again now. Also, I've updated the Pokemon list with new values and Pokemon.
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  #90  
Old 08-12-2010, 09:00 PM
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Default Re: [PVS] A Possible Alternative to Smogon Tiers

For all those interested in entering a Tournament, check the Serebii thread. We're currently gathering those that are interested. I'll PM everyone in the PVS Playtesters group.

If you are interested in joining the Tournament, either leave a post on the Serebii thread or let me know.
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Last edited by Max211; 08-12-2010 at 09:06 PM.
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