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Trainer's Court The Trainer's Court! Where the URPG hold it's trials.


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  #61  
Old 05-17-2010, 07:52 PM
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Default Re: The National Park

I don't see any harm in implementing the A ranger can never trade for a mon that he ranger'd from the park ever. It may prevent abuse, if any.
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  #62  
Old 05-17-2010, 08:06 PM
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Default Re: The National Park

Alright so, besides all the stuff that's already been said, I'd like to bring up the point of more ranger education.

I know we have the Parkpedia and the Information for Rangers page, but I feel like there are some little things that aren't mentioned that probably should be. This isn't as big an issue now as when I first became a Ranger, because now we have a set rolling method posted up, but the Park would end up being a lot more fair and uniform if more things were written down.

For instance, I learned how to roll encounters from one ranger, while another taught me what to do when you have repellents and voice disks, while another taught me what you're actually supposed to do when you do a capture roll. (I've noticed some rangers give all the stats and ask the other person to confirm everything, while others just say the percentage.) I guess some of it is common sense, but I'm not the most common-sensical person, and I'm sure there are some other Rangers out there like me. I'd be willing to help put all that info together if an Elite could edit it.


My gripe with rolls is that while some people will luck out and encounter Porygons, Rotoms and all sorts of story-only mons, others might be unfortunate enough to get an encounters list full of legendaries and weaker mart mons. I know that it has a lot to do with the number of Pokemon (hopefully when Gen V comes out we'll have a lot more options) but something about it just seems off. I think it'd be kind of nice if, say a Ranger rolls almost all mart mons (and their evolutions), they could reroll, in the presence of mod or elite or something, to get at least one or two non-mart mons. I don't know if that would work, but it would make a somewhat terrible trip more worthwhile.

I also agree with Eeveedude that having to battle every Pokemon you come across would take ages. Some rangers take longer than others because they have IRL stuff to deal with. Some take longer because they write longer, more detailed posts. And some draw battles with weak Pokemon out for ages because they want more money. @__@ I know somewhere back Eli or Marth or Jess said something about how Rangers were supposed to be putting their trainers though tests, making them overcome obstacles and stuff like that. I think there could be a few mandatory battles and small puzzles to solve. It would make the RP more like an adventure, and make it harder to just go in, put little effort forth and come out with three really rare, strong Mons.

That's my (overly large) two cents. I have more things to say but I think I'm gonna stop for now.

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Hawk View Post
I don't see any harm in implementing the A ranger can never trade for a mon that he ranger'd from the park ever. It may prevent abuse, if any.
The only thing I don't like about this idea is the whole 'ever' thing. Maybe the trainer eventually decides that they don't want their park Pokemon anymore, and it's a Pokemon the Ranger really likes. It just seems inconvenient. Then the Ranger would go on a Park trip of their own and attempt to capture that Pokemon, which would put another one 'into the system'. Maybe I spent too much time on Gaia in middle school, but I learned a bit about economics, and you could apply the same principles to rare Pokemon as well. If there are a ton of Porygon-Zs floating around in the URPG, they're not going to be that rare anymore. I dunno if that made any sense. I know this is to prevent the Ranger from going easy on the trainer, but I guess that by not being biased, I'm biased. D:
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Last edited by sheepskinfuton; 05-17-2010 at 08:11 PM.
  #63  
Old 05-17-2010, 08:40 PM
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Default Re: The National Park

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepskinfuton View Post
Alright so, besides all the stuff that's already been said, I'd like to bring up the point of more ranger education.

I know we have the Parkpedia and the Information for Rangers page, but I feel like there are some little things that aren't mentioned that probably should be. This isn't as big an issue now as when I first became a Ranger, because now we have a set rolling method posted up, but the Park would end up being a lot more fair and uniform if more things were written down.

For instance, I learned how to roll encounters from one ranger, while another taught me what to do when you have repellents and voice disks, while another taught me what you're actually supposed to do when you do a capture roll. (I've noticed some rangers give all the stats and ask the other person to confirm everything, while others just say the percentage.) I guess some of it is common sense, but I'm not the most common-sensical person, and I'm sure there are some other Rangers out there like me. I'd be willing to help put all that info together if an Elite could edit it.


My gripe with rolls is that while some people will luck out and encounter Porygons, Rotoms and all sorts of story-only mons, others might be unfortunate enough to get an encounters list full of legendaries and weaker mart mons. I know that it has a lot to do with the number of Pokemon (hopefully when Gen V comes out we'll have a lot more options) but something about it just seems off. I think it'd be kind of nice if, say a Ranger rolls almost all mart mons (and their evolutions), they could reroll, in the presence of mod or elite or something, to get at least one or two non-mart mons. I don't know if that would work, but it would make a somewhat terrible trip more worthwhile.
Problem is, they just won't see this side of things. They'll only complain at the supposed brokenness.

Quote:
I also agree with Eeveedude that having to battle every Pokemon you come across would take ages. Some rangers take longer than others because they have IRL stuff to deal with. Some take longer because they write longer, more detailed posts. And some draw battles with weak Pokemon out for ages because they want more money. @__@ I know somewhere back Eli or Marth or Jess said something about how Rangers were supposed to be putting their trainers though tests, making them overcome obstacles and stuff like that. I think there could be a few mandatory battles and small puzzles to solve. It would make the RP more like an adventure, and make it harder to just go in, put little effort forth and come out with three really rare, strong Mons.
It was me, and I said that the ranger Test is meant to Test your efficiency as ranger. Which bring forth: we need to have higher standards.

Quote:
The only thing I don't like about this idea is the whole 'ever' thing. Maybe the trainer eventually decides that they don't want their park Pokemon anymore, and it's a Pokemon the Ranger really likes. It just seems inconvenient. Then the Ranger would go on a Park trip of their own and attempt to capture that Pokemon, which would put another one 'into the system'. Maybe I spent too much time on Gaia in middle school, but I learned a bit about economics, and you could apply the same principles to rare Pokemon as well. If there are a ton of Porygon-Zs floating around in the URPG, they're not going to be that rare anymore. I dunno if that made any sense. I know this is to prevent the Ranger from going easy on the trainer, but I guess that by not being biased, I'm biased. D: [/B]
I don't think promoting a ban on something will ever solve the problem. When they banned cigarettes here, people just smuggled them (and they costed less, somehow). Now, smuggling Pokemon wouldn't be that easy there, but really, who's going to check to see who was the ranger that witnessed the catch etc? People barely check if the guys who're trading stuff actually have the stuff they're trading -.- get real.

P.S.: I take it you're on gaiaonline :3 nice to know
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  #64  
Old 05-17-2010, 10:52 PM
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Default Re: The National Park

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Originally Posted by Black Hawk View Post
I don't see any harm in implementing the A ranger can never trade for a mon that he ranger'd from the park ever. It may prevent abuse, if any.
The only thing I don't like about it is that there is no such rule for graders and the stories they grade. I myself have gotten a Ralts and a Growlithe from two stories I graded, one that was actually a Story Deal. It's possible that graders can go easy on their grades just because it's going to be their Pokemon soon just as it's possible for rangers to easy on their RP posts.

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  #65  
Old 05-18-2010, 01:08 AM
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Default Re: The National Park

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Originally Posted by Phantom Kat View Post
The only thing I don't like about it is that there is no such rule for graders and the stories they grade. I myself have gotten a Ralts and a Growlithe from two stories I graded, one that was actually a Story Deal. It's possible that graders can go easy on their grades just because it's going to be their Pokemon soon just as it's possible for rangers to easy on their RP posts.

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That's what I was saying earlier. If the Ranger appears to be giving the Pokemon away without any effort, then I agree, they shouldn't be allowed to trade it, but if they did work for it, they should be able to do whatever they want with it. Just my opinion.
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  #66  
Old 05-19-2010, 11:07 PM
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Default Re: The National Park

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Originally Posted by GreenRampage View Post
Okay well I think Practicality and Realism are kind of useless things to base a post off of, because "Scyther use Wing Attack" is both what would happen (realistic) and practical when used against a burmy. So that person already has a 66% with something written in like a second

Creativity is also a very ambiguous thing to grade someone on. If a member is RPing a shy, passive character they would'nt have their Pokemon running around jumping off trees. They'd probably more inclined to describe the character's inner thoughts instead. And so describing the character's emotions in a thought out paragraph (effectively acting as though they are in the character's shoes/ Role Playing) would be less "creative" than someone who sent a sentence of, "Jump off the tree and then jump off the other tree and then send a flying kick at him and then use a Fire Punch and then Kick him in the air and then kill him."

While I understand the Park people want to be different than the story people I think those are weak grounds to be handing out high level Pokemon
I meant to touch on this and forgot about it completely.

I have absolutely no idea how you came to the conclusion that Scyther using Wing Attack on a Burmy gives an automatic percent, let alone one of 66. Practicality, Realism, and Creativity are not individual factors that have their own thing in the calc; they're all factored in using the Bonus Modifier, which allows up to either 30 or -30 when taking into account the Trainer's effort (which in turn takes into account CPR). The ONLY thing that affects the BASE capture rate is how much HP the Pokemon has, and the highest base capture rate is 60% for a Mon @ 1-9% HP, iirc.

Also, Wing Attack on Burmy from Scyther may or MAY NOT be realistic and/or practical, depending on the circumstances from post to post. If Scyther's wings are numb from being paralyzed, for example, it's not really practical to use Wing Attack. If Burmy is hiding in a place where Scyther can't easily reach it (such as in a tree trunk), using Wing Attack isn't going to be very realistic, either, or practical for that matter.

And just because a Trainer "thinks" something or whatever doesn't mean their post is going to be less creative than if they "say" it or something. The creativity itself is counted, not the way it's delivered.

It basically all boils down to how you take advantage of any given situation, from the weather to the surroundings to your Pokemon's current health. The more you take into consideration, the better you'll do. Using this move or that move isn't going to have the same effect or deal the same amount of damage every time it's used and isn't going to effect the capture rate directly, as you seem to be implying.
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Last edited by Dog of Hellsing; 05-19-2010 at 11:11 PM.
  #67  
Old 05-21-2010, 02:48 AM
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Default Re: The National Park

But doesn't the modifier affect the base catch rate?
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  #68  
Old 05-21-2010, 05:13 PM
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Default Re: The National Park

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Originally Posted by Starkipraggy View Post
But doesn't the modifier affect the base catch rate?
If it's a modifier, it's not "base" anymore.

However, yes, we have a quality modifier that affects your chances of catching stuff, along with one for status effects and another for Pokeball
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  #69  
Old 05-21-2010, 10:40 PM
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Default Re: The National Park

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Originally Posted by Starkipraggy View Post
But doesn't the modifier affect the base catch rate?
Yes, it does. What I meant was the only thing that affects the base capture rate is the "grouped" factors (CPR, which is the Bonus Modifier), and then the Ball, Status, and Rank modifiers. I meant that individual attacks themselves do no directly affect the base capture rate.
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  #70  
Old 06-04-2010, 12:33 AM
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Default Re: The National Park

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Originally Posted by Ataro View Post
Yeah, I don't mean that you're forced to capture them.

It's just the wild Pokemon will fight you and it's up to you, as the Trainer, to fend them off. I mean, c'mon, do we really expect every single wild Pokemon in the anime to be like "Oh, you're not looking for a Pokemon like me to capture? That's fine then. I'll just walk away". No, you saw them and in a way, you're disturbing them. There should be a high chance of battle being initiated. But lately, most or all RPs that I've seen are happening like what I've described.

Yeah, even if you think they'll walk off, I don't care. A fight should be initiated. >:O And if Whirlwind/Roar/etc. is used, the Ranger should have a way to combat it. Think of the Ranger as the wild Pokemon itself, in a less extreme way.
To expand on the idea that you shouldnt be able to just plain avoid them, I think more than battle posts need to be assesed. I see that most RPs consist of people making great quality posts for battles, but then just making 1 sentence posts for non-battle posts. I think rangers should evaluate every part of the RP.

So there is a machamp in the way, but the RPer doesnt want it. They shouldnt just be able to say "Bob went passes the Machamp". If thats the post, the ranger should penalize the RPer by making the machamp attack.

If the RPer makes some ellaborate post about how they snuck carefully around the machamp, and it as amazing quality, then they should be able to get away with that.

tl;dr: Non-Battle posts should affect how well the RP goes as well
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  #71  
Old 06-04-2010, 05:04 AM
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Default Re: The National Park

Introduction
I’d like to say that this can easily all be summed up in a fairly short and sweet way. I’d like to place the blame for the park’s dysfunction on the rangers, including myself, because we have not been doing our jobs properly. People are getting away from the park quickly with high quality Pokemon which should take ten times the effort because we’re not making them put forth the effort. Regardless of the park’s rolling system, or the luck that takes place, or the hundreds of other technical factors involved, if the rangers were challenging the trainers the way they should be then there would be no problem. I have several points that I want to touch on.

Challenging the Trainers
Obstacles should be a part of each trainer’s journey, and a large part at that! What kind of adventure is going into the forest, catching three Pokemon, and leaving? It isn’t. That also isn’t what the park is about. It was about you using your creativity to get out of sticky situations such as a spontaneous forest fire, or an overgrown spider web blocking your path, or thorny vine walls that got in your way, or falling in pitfalls. How often do we see park trainers in these sticky situations? Never. Usually each RP has one, maybe two, non battle post(s) between each battle unless the trainer goes through a spree of running away from Pokemon. This should never be the case. If trainers are going to walk away from their RP with a Spiritomb, an Absol, and a Kadabra then they should have to do more than just battle the Pokemon!

Avoiding Pokemon
This brings me to my next point. The ability to run away from Pokemon should not exist in the park in my opinion, and if it allowed then it should be heavily limited. How often does a Salamence stop you in your tracks and then let you walk around it? If you’re in the heart of Mount Deckbi and a Charizard springs from the lava and sees you invading its territory, is it really going to let you waltz on by? Even with a good quality post it’s impractical. Now, if the trainer can successfully explain how they avoid the Pokemon then more power to them and they should be sucessful. This should be another place where the rangers challenge their trainers though.

Natures
Too often do rangers not take nature into account, I know because I’m guilty of it and I know that several other rangers have told me they’ve done it too. Natures can be a hassle to incorporate into a post when you’re trying to rush through and post in all of your RPs. However, if you took a look at the trainer’s Pokemons’ natures you would see that people are making bad moves and combos with their Pokemon on a regular basis. Rangers need to start taking natures into account at all times if they want to properly challenge their trainers and make them earn the rare Pokemon that they’re getting.

Battles
Natures play a big part in what moves the wild Pokemon should make too, another thing that many rangers are forgetting to do. Instead they use random attacks that a Pokemon may never really even use in the wild. How often is a wild Cloyster going to use Toxic on you? Sure, it can learn the move, but it’s impractical to use realistically. Wild Pokemon aren’t stupid either. They have strategy as well. That means that they shouldn’t just be battered by the trainer’s Pokemon. Also, too often moves are exchanged blow for blow. Wild Pokemon can use more than one move at once too. The trainer doesn’t NEED the opportunity to dodge for each attack. If their posts have been good, make them dodge it, if not then they get hit without warning and it’s their own fault for not posting with a better quality. Battles, like the general RP, need to be better planned by rangers and need to become more challenging. Also, check Pokemon abilities in the park encyclopedia. How many of you rangers knew that Battle Armor increases your resistance to all attacks in the park and not just critical hits? Another thing that rangers need to adjust is damage calculation. DO NOT USE THE REFFING CALCULATOR. If you do then a Pokemon can go out in 2 hits. How much damage an attack does is up to your discretion. Don’t forget that these battles are anime style. That means strong attacks can do little damage, combos do more, and accuracy means nothing. BE CREATIVE.

Authority
Many times we forget as rangers that we are in complete control of everything to an extent. We play demi-gods in the National Park; that’s our job. That means that your post overrides the trainers’. So if someone makes their Hydro Pump sound like it comes so close to hitting that it couldn’t possibly miss, and you don’t think it should hit, say “well this actually happened…” and make their Pokemon get hit before they release the blast. A lot of times I see trainers manipulating the “you can’t say what happens” rule by saying something like “the attack is fired and flies straight at the wild Pokemon, just about striking them.” They didn’t break the rule, but with a crappy post like that you can still stop that attack from hitting. Don’t forget that you’re in control, don’t let the trainer’s post affect your better ranging judgment.

Wages
I don’t agree with the way that Ranger wages are done at all. Currently battle posts receive an amount that varies depending on post quality (which I’m noticing isn’t usually judged so well. Last month two or three people received 1000 per post that definitely did not deserve it), and non battle posts receive 250 each. This contributes a lot to the fact that non battle posts are looked at as less important than battle posts. Because of this, the National Park has become all about battles and everything else is neglected. If wages were equal for both types of posts then simple battles wouldn’t be dragged out so long and parts of the RP other than battles would take place more often, since it wouldn’t matter to the ranger(who pretty much creates the RP plot) whether what’s going on is a battle or not. If we want a stable park all park posts need to be counted equally. However, I do agree in the quality judgment system, I just think that rangers’ posts should be looked at more carefully.

PQM
Post Qualitiy Modifier.; the part of the capturing process that is completely up to the ranger. I think that the ranger witnessing the capture roll should have to look over then battles’ posts and decide this number. Rangers quite often will max this stat out just to end the battle or held out a friend that they’re ranging for. Post quality need to be judged by an impartial third party.

The Old Park
Closing down the park for now was a good idea because it wasn’t being used properly. The problem was that the park wasn’t being run the way it was intended to and that is with the intention to challenge trainers’ creativity. I however, do not agree with limiting access to Pokemon obtained through the broken park. When 2hkos were banned nobody had to stop spending the winnings/wages; Aerodactyl was removed from the Underground but people can still trade them. When the park Pokemon were obtained they were obtained by a legitimate means at that time; therefore, it’s not right to punish the trainers by not allowing them to trade their Pokemon or by taking them away (I have a feeling that that is were this is going, I don’t know why, I could be wrong, I just have a feeling). It’s like saying “We’re changing the character limit of a PorygonZ to 100,000 characters and anybody who wrote for one with less than that many characters in their story may not trade their Porygon Z. That wouldn’t fly; that PZ was obtained in a legit way at the time and so the person who owns it should have no problems with trading it away. They earned it, whether through a broken process or not.

Conclusion
That’s my 2 cents and a nickel. Please read everything over and take some things I’ve said into consideration; I think I made quite a few valid points. Sorry if I repeated anything that was already said, I only skimmed the thread. Good day. :]
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Last edited by Sec; 06-04-2010 at 05:08 AM.
  #72  
Old 06-04-2010, 05:22 AM
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Default Re: The National Park

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Originally Posted by Sec View Post
The Old Park
Closing down the park for now was a good idea because it wasn’t being used properly. The problem was that the park wasn’t being run the way it was intended to and that is with the intention to challenge trainers’ creativity. I however, do not agree with limiting access to Pokemon obtained through the broken park. When 2hkos were banned nobody had to stop spending the winnings/wages; Aerodactyl was removed from the Underground but people can still trade them. When the park Pokemon were obtained they were obtained by a legitimate means at that time; therefore, it’s not right to punish the trainers by not allowing them to trade their Pokemon or by taking them away (I have a feeling that that is were this is going, I don’t know why, I could be wrong, I just have a feeling). It’s like saying “We’re changing the character limit of a PorygonZ to 100,000 characters and anybody who wrote for one with less than that many characters in their story may not trade their Porygon Z. That wouldn’t fly; that PZ was obtained in a legit way at the time and so the person who owns it should have no problems with trading it away. They earned it, whether through a broken process or not.
They were not obtained by legitimate means if the system was broken at the time and it was.

As for winnings, it's unreasonable to expect to find and deal with every single 2hko done, in previous cases, such as the incident with Kingrptr101 you'll find he actually DID have to pay back all the wages he ever earned.

Either way, the point is moot. We've brought it up, talked about it, decided upon it. You can expect to see the results shortly.

~Isaiah
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  #73  
Old 06-04-2010, 11:26 AM
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Default Re: The National Park

My point is not that they were obtained through legitimate means, it's that they were obtained through legitimate means at the time. We were told that we had to complete the RP and capture three Pokemon, that's what we did. We follow our rangers, who are given the job to lead us through the park and decide whether or not we obtain our Pokemon. If what we were doing was wrong then the Ranger should have stopped us.

You don't find out that a ref made a wrong calc after the battle and then take back the winnings when they're already sepnt; you don't decide that a grader didn't do a nice grade and then take away the trainer's Pokemon and tell them to revise their story after they've already TMed it and used it for 3 weeks. Even take yourn FFAs for example ST. You were hosting massive FFAs daily and then they were limited to 2 per week. Would it have been right for Ataro to say, "Well ST just doesn't get these wages because the system was broken"?

Even place a real life example in the same circumstance. Say you get your liscense when you turn 16, you drive around for 2 months and you're having a grand time in your car. All of a sudden they change the driving age to 18. Do you lose your liscense? Do they say "well you can have the liscense for now but you just can't use it" (like saying we can have our Pokemon but not trade them)? No, you'd be grandfathered into the new law and be allowed to continue driving because you obtained your liscense at an age which they told you was right. Just because they decide they don't like it later doesn't mean they an take away what you earned though a way that was correct when you got it. The same goes here.

We obtained our Pokemon through a way which we were told was correct. If you decide that you don't like the way the park works anymore then so be it, close it, reopen it with new rules and new principles and new ways to obtain Pokemon, but don't limit the Pokemon that were obtained before the park closed. My point stands that while the system may have been broken, we were told that it was fine, and we used it because we were told it was fine. To take away or limit our earnings for doing what we were supposed to do and allowed to do makes no sense.
Another thing. If the point has been discussed, decided on, and finalized so completely then why instead of just saying "we decided on something," can't you tell us what you decided on? I understand that you probably wanna release the information when everything about the plan is finished, but give us a general idea, at least give us the decision. We don't need all the complex details, we just want to know what's going on. The park closed about three weeks ago and we've heard nothing of the progress or even the points being discussed. At least keep us updated and let us know what's going on. It's not like there's any real reason to be secretive about what's going on; keep us informed, don't just say "you'll see soon".
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Last edited by Sec; 06-04-2010 at 11:37 AM.
  #74  
Old 06-04-2010, 10:56 PM
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Default Re: The National Park

I refuse to give up on the Gengar that I obtained by trading one of the three Porygon-Z's I caputed. I do, however, believe that the other two were encountered, not captured, by a system abuse, and thus I will delete them from my stats.

Sec's point pretty much sums up why I think the measure is dead wrong. You had one year to read the rules and see if they were allright. To makes us delete those Pokémon means our legal investment of time we waitted for the RP to finish and money was pointless. You can refund money, but you can't refund the time we waitted for them to finish.
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  #75  
Old 06-04-2010, 11:02 PM
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Default Re: The National Park

Really? You think taking away Pokemon someone took their time to get just like that? Um, no, taking away something does not fix anything. "Oh, well, they were caught when it was corrupt." Does it matter? Taking them away makes you just as "corrupt" as the park was.

You don't have a just cause. You don't have a good enough reason. Why even try to do this when you know there will be no one willing? Seems to me like a "quick fix". No, you aren't having my Absol, Bee's Absol, Metagross or Spiritomb. The only thing you can have is a suggestion to actually try something instead of just taking away the Pokemon we obtained.

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