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  #31  
Old 04-20-2010, 06:56 AM
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Default Re: Powerhouse of World War II

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Originally Posted by Lusankya View Post
@Kenny: Actually, that's wrong. Mass is lost in an atomic bomb.



I believe this is due to the fact that while atomic particles are not destroyed in a fission reaction, the mass of an atomic particle (neutron, proton, electron, although the latter is irrelevant in this case) is not constant; it actually changes depending on the properties of the particle, such as speed or bonds.
Ah yes. Right, the theory that nuclear binding energy actually contributing to mass or something like that? I'm assuming the existence of neutrinos also factor into there somewhere as well. My bad on my bad physics. XD
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  #32  
Old 04-22-2010, 05:33 PM
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Default Re: Powerhouse of World War II

Damn, I'm smart but science makes me look like a toddler, so I'll live it to the people who are way smarter than me on that subject.

Mow, to something I am familiar with. In my spare time I study American history, specifically American war history, and by extent the second World War.

This creates a dilemma for me, but here is how I would rank the nations:

Armor: (1) Germans ~ They had the best armor out the outbreak of the war and remained dominate for much of the war, until the Russians made their powerhouse.

(2) Russia ~ They had the first tank that was a match for German armor.

(3) America ~ Armor was decent, but in my opinion not as good as the Russian and German tanks.


Airforce: (1) America ~ This is because of the combined efforts in the Pacific and European theaters, plus we had decent planes, like the superfortress.

(2) German ~ Had air priority for a nice portion of the war and their fighter plane plus the Stuka made a fierce-some combo.

(3) British ~ Decent fighters but nowhere near the skill of the German and the later American pilots.


Army: (1) German ~ Best trained army on the planet, best materials and everything else needed.

(2) America ~ Well equipped with decent leadership.

(3) Japan ~ Banzai! A nation of superb fighters, men unmatched for their bravery and courage under fire.


Leadership ~ (1) German ~ Best leadership around, tank and air commanders were brilliant, they were only hindered by the stupidity of Hitler.

(2) America ~ Good, strong leaders, nobody is comparable to the German, but we had a few good men in charge.

(3) British ~ Only reason they're up here is because everybody sucked.


Overall: (1) German, (2) America, (3) British

The Russians ranked low because of poor leadership and horrible materials of war, they only reason the became a superpower was because America and Britain let them. Also, the only reason they beat the Germans was due to the harsh winter and too many soldiers for the Germans to kill.

Japan did well, until they attacked America. It was a high risk, high reward gamble and they lost.

France ~ lol

My opinions :P
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  #33  
Old 04-23-2010, 06:54 PM
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Default Re: Powerhouse of World War II

If I recall correctly the Americans nearly lost if not for them getting extremely lucky in the Battle of Midway and taking out one or two Japanese ships before the Japanese could mount a proper offense since neither side could use radar and everyone was basically moving blind. Not to mention being lucky enough to crack Japan's radio encryption in time to hear that they were attacking and stuff.

Germans are overall the most dangerous since they managed to beef up their forces so much in such a short amount of time... And in the same amount of time, Britain's strength didn't rise as much; I dare say it stagnated. Hitler lost to the Russians because he was behind schedule, mostly. He wanted to take over Moscow before autumn set in, but he was unable to achieve that, so he was screwed.

Russians are powerhouses simply due to their huge forces and nothing else. At one point of time they assigned two men to a rifle. Kinda crazy.

US is kinda useless. They almost got pwned by Japan, they were indecisive in entering the war, and basically they just went around cleaning up the mess everyone had made of themselves.

Japan really had it easy in Asia, though China was a pretty tough cookie for the same reasons that Russia was a superpower in the war. So I wouldn't really call them a superpower overall.

All other countries are crap and not worth considering.
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  #34  
Old 04-23-2010, 07:08 PM
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Default Re: Powerhouse of World War II

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Originally Posted by Starkipraggy View Post
If I recall correctly the Americans nearly lost if not for them getting extremely lucky in the Battle of Midway and taking out one or two Japanese ships before the Japanese could mount a proper offense since neither side could use radar and everyone was basically moving blind. Not to mention being lucky enough to crack Japan's radio encryption in time to hear that they were attacking and stuff.

Germans are overall the most dangerous since they managed to beef up their forces so much in such a short amount of time... And in the same amount of time, Britain's strength didn't rise as much; I dare say it stagnated. Hitler lost to the Russians because he was behind schedule, mostly. He wanted to take over Moscow before autumn set in, but he was unable to achieve that, so he was screwed.

Russians are powerhouses simply due to their huge forces and nothing else. At one point of time they assigned two men to a rifle. Kinda crazy.

US is kinda useless. They almost got pwned by Japan, they were indecisive in entering the war, and basically they just went around cleaning up the mess everyone had made of themselves.

Japan really had it easy in Asia, though China was a pretty tough cookie for the same reasons that Russia was a superpower in the war. So I wouldn't really call them a superpower overall.

All other countries are crap and not worth considering.
At one point the Germans where so ill supplied during the winter it was one rifle for a squad.

You forgot to mention Britain but I'l let it slide =P
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  #35  
Old 04-23-2010, 09:16 PM
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Default Re: Powerhouse of World War II

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Damn, I'm smart but science makes me look like a toddler, so I'll live it to the people who are way smarter than me on that subject.

Mow, to something I am familiar with. In my spare time I study American history, specifically American war history, and by extent the second World War.

This creates a dilemma for me, but here is how I would rank the nations:

Armor: (1) Germans ~ They had the best armor out the outbreak of the war and remained dominate for much of the war, until the Russians made their powerhouse.

Wrong. German tanks were completely inferior to the Russian T-34 during their invasion. German tank commanders have recalled watching their shells bounce off T-34 armor from as close as 100 yards. To kill Russian T-34s, the German infantry had to get right on top of the tanks and screw with them. The only reason the German invasion succeeded at all was because the Russians, for whatever reason, were the worst tacticians in the world at the time.

Also, it's incorrect to say that even the later German tanks were superior. They had heavier armor and had a bigger gun, but these traits were offset by the fact that they ate up precious German fuel like a fat guy eats french fries and that they were really, really slow. On a large, wide battlefield, even the lowly Sherman tended to do better than Panzers cost to cost.


(2) Russia ~ They had the first tank that was a match for German armor.

Addressed in previous statement.

(3) America ~ Armor was decent, but in my opinion not as good as the Russian and German tanks.

Also addressed previously. Also important to note that while Shermans were inferior to Tigers in armor and firepower, there were three times as many Shermans as there were German tanks. Americans also had the best mechanics and were able to salvage most damaged Shermans, whereas the Germans and everyone else just abandoned damaged vehicles.

Airforce: (1) America ~ This is because of the combined efforts in the Pacific and European theaters, plus we had decent planes, like the superfortress.

(2) German ~ Had air priority for a nice portion of the war and their fighter plane plus the Stuka made a fierce-some combo.

They never had air superiority except in the very first part of the war, before the real fighting started. Britain was bombing the German heartland even as early as the Battle of Britain. Russian planes sucked, of course.

(3) British ~ Decent fighters but nowhere near the skill of the German and the later American pilots.

Also wrong. British pilots, while few in number, were as good or better than their counterparts in Germany and America. The Spitfire was the best defense fighter of the war, period. The problem with the British is that they just didn't have enough of anything to make a huge difference.


Army: (1) German ~ Best trained army on the planet, best materials and everything else needed.

Bull. ****. The myth of the Nazi super-soldier is completely and utterly wrong. German soldiers were no better than American counterparts; while Germany did have higher kills-to-deaths ratios for the war, that was because they were on the defensive most of the time. When the Germans took the offensive during the latter half of the war, they always failed miserably. Their equipment was also inferior to American soldiers'. There are many cases of Germans stealing boots and clothes from American soldiers because their own was so terrible.

(2) America ~ Well equipped with decent leadership.

American soldiers were undoubtedly the best-equipped of the war. Training was iffy, especially in Europe, where the American decision to trickle in reinforcements ensured far more casualties than was necessary.

(3) Japan ~ Banzai! A nation of superb fighters, men unmatched for their bravery and courage under fire.


Leadership ~ (1) German ~ Best leadership around, tank and air commanders were brilliant, they were only hindered by the stupidity of Hitler.

Also bull. A look at German tactics reveals decidedly average results, with a few exceptions, such as Rommel in Africa. Blitzkrieg was superb, but it became useless when the war turned defensive. It also didn't work in Russia due to bad roads.

(2) America ~ Good, strong leaders, nobody is comparable to the German, but we had a few good men in charge.

I wonder how many superior German generals you can name.

(3) British ~ Only reason they're up here is because everybody sucked.


Overall: (1) German, (2) America, (3) British

The Russians ranked low because of poor leadership and horrible materials of war, they only reason the became a superpower was because America and Britain let them. Also, the only reason they beat the Germans was due to the harsh winter and too many soldiers for the Germans to kill.

Japan did well, until they attacked America. It was a high risk, high reward gamble and they lost.

France ~ lol

My opinions :P
Quote:
If I recall correctly the Americans nearly lost if not for them getting extremely lucky in the Battle of Midway and taking out one or two Japanese ships before the Japanese could mount a proper offense since neither side could use radar and everyone was basically moving blind. Not to mention being lucky enough to crack Japan's radio encryption in time to hear that they were attacking and stuff.

The war in the Pacific was a forgone conclusion, Midway or no Midway. Japan never had a chance against America, unless America suddenly decided to give up. You shouldn't see the war in the Pacific as a titanic struggle between two great powers. Japan had no chance of winning in the long run, and it knew it. By the end of WWII, half of all ships in the world were American. The reasons for the Japanese decision to go to war are complex, but it can be summed up as that as America was pressing them economically, they were doomed if they did, doomed if they didn't. They chose to go to war for the tiny ray of hope that the Americans would just give up after Pearl Harbor.

And no, the Americans didn't simply "get lucky" at Midway. The battle was a complete and utter disaster for the Japanese, whose fleet was decimated by a much smaller American force due to horrific tactical decisions on their own part.


Germans are overall the most dangerous since they managed to beef up their forces so much in such a short amount of time... And in the same amount of time, Britain's strength didn't rise as much; I dare say it stagnated. Hitler lost to the Russians because he was behind schedule, mostly. He wanted to take over Moscow before autumn set in, but he was unable to achieve that, so he was screwed.

Hitler lost to the Russians because he was an idiot. Moscow assumed second-class priority in his mind until very late in that year. Had he put his strength into attacking Moscow instead of spreading them around across the whole of the Russian front, he could have taken Moscow without question.

Russians are powerhouses simply due to their huge forces and nothing else. At one point of time they assigned two men to a rifle. Kinda crazy.

US is kinda useless. They almost got pwned by Japan, they were indecisive in entering the war, and basically they just went around cleaning up the mess everyone had made of themselves.

See above for Japan. Being indecisive in entering the war also has nothing to do with being a powerhouse or not. The US's entrance into the European theater was a gesture of goodwill, not one of necessity like that for Britain and Russia. Germany was no threat to the United States.

Japan really had it easy in Asia, though China was a pretty tough cookie for the same reasons that Russia was a superpower in the war. So I wouldn't really call them a superpower overall.
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  #36  
Old 04-24-2010, 01:02 PM
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Default Re: Powerhouse of World War II

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The war in the Pacific was a forgone conclusion, Midway or no Midway. Japan never had a chance against America, unless America suddenly decided to give up. You shouldn't see the war in the Pacific as a titanic struggle between two great powers. Japan had no chance of winning in the long run, and it knew it. By the end of WWII, half of all ships in the world were American. The reasons for the Japanese decision to go to war are complex, but it can be summed up as that as America was pressing them economically, they were doomed if they did, doomed if they didn't. They chose to go to war for the tiny ray of hope that the Americans would just give up after Pearl Harbor.

And no, the Americans didn't simply "get lucky" at Midway. The battle was a complete and utter disaster for the Japanese, whose fleet was decimated by a much smaller American force due to horrific tactical decisions on their own part.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Midway
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/e...way/midway.htm

US might not have made it without losing significant amounts of their forces if they didn't get really lucky.

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By chance, at the same time VT-3 was sighted by the Japanese, two separate formations (a total of three squadrons) of American SBD Dauntless dive bombers were approaching the Japanese fleet from the northeast and southwest. They were running low on fuel because of the time spent looking for the enemy. However, squadron commander C. Wade McClusky, Jr. decided to continue the search and luckily spotted the wake of the Japanese destroyer Arashi. The destroyer was steaming at full speed to rejoin Nagumo's carrier force after having unsuccessfully depth-charged the U.S. submarine Nautilus, which had earlier unsuccessfully attacked the battleship Kirishima.[75] Some bombers were lost from fuel exhaustion before the attack commenced.[76]

McClusky's decision to continue the search was credited by Admiral Chester Nimitz, and his judgment "decided the fate of our carrier task force and our forces at Midway..."[77] The American dive-bombers arrived at the perfect time to attack.[78] Armed Japanese strike aircraft filled the hangar decks, fuel hoses snaked across the decks as refueling operations were hastily completed, and the repeated change of ordnance meant bombs and torpedoes were stacked around the hangars, rather than stowed safely in the magazines,[79] making the Japanese carriers extraordinarily vulnerable.

Beginning at 10:22, Enterprise's air group scored multiple hits on Kaga. To the north, Akagi was struck four minutes later by three of Enterprise's bombers. Yorktown's aircraft went for Sōryū. Simultaneously, VT-3 targeted Hiryū, which was sandwiched between Sōryū, Kaga, and Akagi, but scored no hits. By contrast, the dive-bombers, within six minutes, left Sōryū, Kaga, and Akagi heavily ablaze. Akagi was hit by just one bomb, which penetrated to the upper hangar deck and exploded among the armed and fueled aircraft there. One bomb exploded underwater very close astern, the resulting geyser bending the flight deck upward and also causing crucial rudder damage.[80] Sōryū took three bombs in her hangar deck; Kaga, at least four, possibly more. All three carriers were out of action and were eventually abandoned and scuttled.[81]
thosedamnedbombers

Quote:
Hitler lost to the Russians because he was an idiot. Moscow assumed second-class priority in his mind until very late in that year. Had he put his strength into attacking Moscow instead of spreading them around across the whole of the Russian front, he could have taken Moscow without question.
And also for going into the fight in winter.
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  #37  
Old 04-24-2010, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Starkipraggy View Post
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Midway
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/e...way/midway.htm

US might not have made it without losing significant amounts of their forces if they didn't get really lucky.
Quote:
Typical of Japanese naval planning during World War II, Yamamoto's battle plan was exceedingly complex.[19] Additionally, his design was predicated on optimistic intelligence suggesting USS Enterprise and USS Hornet, forming Task Force 16, were the only carriers available to the U.S. Pacific Fleet at the time....

...However, more important was Yamamoto's belief the Americans had been demoralized by their frequent defeats during the preceding six months. Yamamoto felt deception would be required to lure the U.S. fleet into a fatally compromised situation.[20] To this end, he dispersed his forces so that their full extent (particularly his battleships) would be unlikely to be discovered by the Americans prior to battle. Critically, Yamamoto's supporting battleships and cruisers would trail Vice-Admiral Nagumo Chūichi's carrier striking force by several hundred miles. Japan's heavy surface forces were intended to destroy whatever part of the U.S. fleet might come to Midway's relief, once Nagumo's carriers had weakened them sufficiently for a daylight gun duel;[21] this was typical of the battle doctrine of most major navies.[22]

Unbeknownst to Yamamoto, the United States had broken the main Japanese naval code (dubbed JN-25 by the Americans). Yamamoto's emphasis on dispersal also meant that none of his formations could support each other. For instance, the only significant warships larger than destroyers that screened Nagumo's fleet were two battleships and three cruisers, despite his carriers being expected to carry out the strikes and bear the brunt of American counterattacks. By contrast, the flotillas of Yamamoto and Kondo had between them two light carriers, five battleships, and six cruisers, none of which would see any action at Midway.[21] Their distance from Nagumo's carriers would also have grave implications during the battle, since the larger warships in Yamamoto and Kondo's forces carried scout planes, an invaluable reconnaissance capability denied to Nagumo.
The luck certainly helped, but it only helped to seal the deal. Even if the US had taken heavy losses, it still would have won WWII. The US could replace its losses, in men, ships, and planes. Japan could not.
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  #38  
Old 04-24-2010, 02:15 PM
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Default Re: Powerhouse of World War II

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The luck certainly helped, but it only helped to seal the deal. Even if the US had taken heavy losses, it still would have won WWII. The US could replace its losses, in men, ships, and planes. Japan could not.
Yes, but I still think it would be probable that Japan could have won if it had succeeded at Midway. The fact the US knew about Midway in the first place made it a foregone conclusion due to the nature of the strategy they were taking.
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Old 04-24-2010, 07:24 PM
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Yes, but I still think it would be probable that Japan could have won if it had succeeded at Midway. The fact the US knew about Midway in the first place made it a foregone conclusion due to the nature of the strategy they were taking.
Japan couldn't make a follow-up campaign. It couldn't assault the US mainland. Even if it managed to completely destroy the Pacific Fleet, the US could rebuild it within a year and send it out to crush Japan again.

Japan had no hope of winning WWII.
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Old 04-24-2010, 08:06 PM
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Default Re: Powerhouse of World War II

Germany could have won WWII easily, but Hitler made the stupid decision of attacking Russia while fighting Britain. If they had just stayed allies with Russia, Germany would have won.

And don't think I'm just saying this because I'm German, I also have Polish heritage ^_^

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Old 04-24-2010, 08:17 PM
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Germany could have won WWII easily, but Hitler made the stupid decision of attacking Russia while fighting Britain. If they had just stayed allies with Russia, Germany would have won.

And don't think I'm just saying this because I'm German, I also have Polish heritage ^_^

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Yeah, but if Hitler hadn't attacked Russia, WWII wouldn't have been an actual world war.
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Old 04-24-2010, 09:07 PM
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Yeah, but if Hitler hadn't attacked Russia, WWII wouldn't have been an actual world war.
Hmm...

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Too true my friend, too true...

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Old 04-27-2010, 05:42 AM
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Yeah, but if Hitler hadn't attacked Russia, WWII wouldn't have been an actual world war.
If I'm not wrong they would have fought each other sooner or later; all they signed was a non-aggression pact so that both of them could build up their forces in preparation to battle each other. So basically if Hitler hadn't attacked, Stalin himself would have.

Also, darn you overly rich Americans in WWII Dx
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:18 PM
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If I'm not wrong they would have fought each other sooner or later; all they signed was a non-aggression pact so that both of them could build up their forces in preparation to battle each other. So basically if Hitler hadn't attacked, Stalin himself would have.
Yes, they could have, theoretically, but it's doubtful that Stalin would have. Without WWII and a decimated Europe, the USSR would not have grown into the superpower it became, and thus would probably never have been able to get enough of a decisive strategic advantage over a Nazi Germany with dominance Western Europe to contemplate an invasion. Stalin wasn't insane like Hitler; he wouldn't have started a fight he wasn't sure he could win (as evidenced in the Cold War, where Stalin stayed far away from war with the USA) so any war between Russia and Germany would most likely have to be started by Hitler.
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Old 04-28-2010, 12:13 AM
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Default Re: Powerhouse of World War II

Germany in itself was one hell of a powerhouse. Russia's winter was all that saved it. Japan could have never won the war. I wonder what things would have been like if he kept attacking Britain and once defeated them moved over to Russia. Germany was prospering while every other country was in the great depression. Hitler was a terrific leader. If it was not for the Holocaust, attacked the west or not, he would be considered a brilliant man. The Atom Bomb would have been much harder to deliver to a German city then it was on Japan. I would not be surprised if it would have not evan been used on the Germans. It was used to try to force the Japanese to surrender instead of launching a massive invasion of the home island, which would have caused staggering causalities. The USA was an industrial powerhouse. Thanks to the Japanese attack at pearl harbor however. Things would have been very different if Hitler made the first offensive against the US. Once the US war machine got started up, I dont think Germany had a chance. US Involvement did stop Hitler from potential world domination. No doubt about that. The US ended the Japanese and if it was not for Eisenhower's decision to not head to Berlin, the US would have taken it before the Red Army. However, the Red Army helped defeat Germany just as much as the US. If Hitler would have attacked Russia and the US never involved, it would have been a long, long campaign. It would have also took a lot of recovery before he could start making more offensives. Assuming he won, which he would have.
And to the person who said the US did not make the bomb, go google it please.

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