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  #16  
Old 12-25-2009, 10:00 PM
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Default Re: Holiday Bullcrap

I'm just in it for the presents >.>
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  #17  
Old 12-25-2009, 11:35 PM
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Default Re: Holiday Bullcrap

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoflTacos View Post
I know. My family still celebrates Christmas and we are all Agnostic/Atheist. We celebrate for Family and joy. Not religion.
^ THAT right there is what Christmas is about. You can celebrate Jesus any day of the year, but Christmas has taken on more of the form of a day to celebrate your family and be thankful for the life you have.

...And give and recieve presents. :D
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  #18  
Old 12-26-2009, 12:59 AM
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Default Re: Holiday Bullcrap

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Pikachu View Post
I think what people are forgetting is what resembles the holiday in the first place. People should stop to consider the whole meaning of the holiday before trying to derail its traditions and turn what started as a day of celebration and thanksgiving into a commercialized money-making opportunity, along with portraying it as a day to satiate wants and desires.

If people continue to see it just as a day to get gifts and spend money, then we've lost something very precious indeed.
Quoted for absolute truth.
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  #19  
Old 12-26-2009, 01:03 AM
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Default Re: Holiday Bullcrap

Well, if you wanna be technical, the Christmas trees and the decorating of said plants was a Pagan tradition. As for the gift-giving, it mimicks how the wise men (kings) gave presents to the infant Jesus.
I personally think they had nowhere to put the replica of the star that lit the skies during that time and that's why the trees are used as well XD

In all seriousness though, the trees are indeed a Pagan tradition. You can celebrate family and Christ any day of your life - that's what the years we're given are for, after all.
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  #20  
Old 12-26-2009, 02:00 AM
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Default Re: Holiday Bullcrap

Just to set it straight, the time of Christmas and a lot of the festivites are pagan. They come from the Pagan celebration of the solstice and the new year. The trees, the wreaths, all of that stuff. They had poor record keeping back then and I'm fairly certain no one knew Jesus's actual birthday, so when they decided to begin celebrating the day Jesus was born they established it as December 25th, so that it coincided with Solstice celebrations, and started celebrating in a similar way so that it would be familiar in order to keep from scaring away pagan converts. At least as I understand it.

Now as for this, I'm going to go ahead and agree with Neo. Personally I can't stand the holiday as we celebrate it for what it's become: a celebration of commercialism and greed as opposed to a day of giving and love. I dislike Christmas gifts, I dislike Christmas sales, and I dislike people who focus on the gifts, especially those who complain about not getting exactly what they wanted. It disgusts me to the very core of my being. As for the trees, no one is going to force you to call it a holiday tree if you don't want to. If it's officially and legally called that then suck it up and call it what you want.
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  #21  
Old 12-26-2009, 02:42 AM
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Default Re: Holiday Bullcrap

Quote:
Originally Posted by TitaniumAnimations View Post
Wow! This made a whole bunch of people get defensive.
One: You should listen to German/Duetchland news. They are still talking about "Holiday" trees.
Two: Christmas was set on December 25th because we do not know the EXACT date on when Christ was born. Thus, we have 25th. If we found an orphan on the streets and we didn't know the exact age of the person, we would guestimate right?
Three and final: If you are an atheist and you celebrate Christmas you are celebrating a Christian holiday! Capeesh?
Sounds like you're getting a little defensive now ;0

I don't see why it matters either way. Even if the name is "officially" changed, most people would still call it a Christmas tree.
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  #22  
Old 12-26-2009, 04:48 AM
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Default Re: Holiday Bullcrap

Oh ho ho ho, I've been wanting to do this for a while.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitaniumAnimations View Post
Many "atheists" believe that the Christmas tree should be re named the Holiday tree. I got news for them...

1) Why are you celebrating a Christian holiday if you are an atheist?
Like it or not, Christmas is a secular holiday. See, Christmas is a Federal holiday in America. Furthermore, there is a separation of church and state. From there, you can conclude that if the government is sponsoring a holiday, it must be secular. See, you're celebrating a holiday called Christmas on the same day that the government has said that Christmas, a secular holiday, happens.

Quote:
2) The word 'Holiday' comes from Holyday...
Many different religions have many different holy days.

Quote:
3) Why can't you just name your tree the Holiday Tree and leave other people alone.
If its a government tree, it will be named by the voters. If the voters vote for people that say that it will be called a Holiday Tree, it will be called a Holiday Tree. Christmas or Holiday, each name is still secular, so it doesn't really matter.

Also, dragging a tree into your house is a Pagan tradition, so quite frankly, it doesn't matter.
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  #23  
Old 12-26-2009, 08:33 AM
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Default Re: Holiday Bullcrap

Meh,

ein: Ich denke nicht über die Regierung kümmern.
zwei: Genau, warum feiern Atheisten es? Sie glauben nicht an eine Religion.
drei: Die Deutschen nehmen an den Abstimmungen nicht!

or in english:

Meh,

one: I don't care about the government.
two: Exactly, so why do atheists celebrate it? They don't believe in a religion.
three: The Germans don't vote!
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  #24  
Old 12-26-2009, 08:51 AM
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Default Re: Holiday Bullcrap

Quote:
Originally Posted by TitaniumAnimations View Post
Meh,

ein: Ich denke nicht über die Regierung kümmern.
zwei: Genau, warum feiern Atheisten es? Sie glauben nicht an eine Religion.
drei: Die Deutschen nehmen an den Abstimmungen nicht!

or in english:

Meh,

one: I don't care about the government.
two: Exactly, so why do atheists celebrate it? They don't believe in a religion.
three: The Germans don't vote!
One: Tough nuts, they exist and their existence will fundamentally alter your life in some way.

Two: First of all, poor wording. They believe in religion, they don't believe in God. And so what, because they're religious they don't get to join in on the season of giving and merriness? They celebrate a similar holiday to you with the same name, the exception being that for them it's about spending time with family and friends instead of Jesus.

Three: The last time I checked Germany was a democracy. And in a democracy not voting is casting a vote for "do whatever the hell you want, I shouldn't complain since I could have had a say in this earlier but instead chose not to" in shorter words.
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  #25  
Old 12-26-2009, 03:52 PM
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Default Re: Holiday Bullcrap

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michelle8936 View Post
Pagan tradition
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Christianity crosses my mind ZERO times at this period. A few key points... o:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Origin of Christmas
The date of December 25th probably originated with the ancient "birthday" of the son-god, Mithra, a pagan deity whose religious influence became widespread in the Roman Empire during the first few centuries A.D...
Rome was well-known for absorbing the pagan religions and rituals of its widespread empire...
... the winter solstice period...
.... The winter holiday became known as Saturnalia and began the week prior to December 25th....
... The festival was characterized by gift-giving, feasting, singing and downright debauchery...
... Variations of this pagan holiday flourished throughout the first few centuries after Jesus Christ, but it probably wasn't until 336 AD that Emperor Constantine officially converted this pagan tradition into the "Christian" holiday of Christmas.
Paganism: 1

EDIT

"If you are an atheist and you celebrate Christmas you are celebrating a Christian holiday! Capeesh?"

I see it as a celebration of the winter solstice, the pagan traditions and 'gift-giving, feasting, singing and downright debauchery'. If we're not Christian, we're not celebrating the Christianity part of it, so your points kinda fail.

Also, Indian and Chinese resturants put up christmas decorations and wish you a merry christmas when you go in. Why are they celebrating a christian holiday?
Maybe because it's taken over the world, which is probably the readon Emperor Constantine forced it to be Christian in the first place.

*breathes in deeply* God I hate this subject...
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  #26  
Old 12-26-2009, 04:38 PM
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Default Re: Holiday Bullcrap

Everything Tombi just said sums my opinion up. xD

But I'm pretty Athiest I guess... I don't belive in a god, nor do I believe that Jesus was gods son (I do believe that he exists, as it is taught in history books that he did indeed exist and his followers started the whole religion), but I still celebrate Christmas.

Christmas is more of a family and joy filled day rather than religious in my family (and my family is pretty dang religious). Plus if you think about it, Christmas has evolved alot over the years and has pulled away from being a strictly religious holiday and more of a family gathering time.

And apprently Jesus may have been born in March, and the Christians moved the celebration of his birth to December to coincide with the Pagan winter solstice so they wouldn't be religiously persecuted. :X Explains why Pagan traditions have been adopted to Christmas.
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  #27  
Old 12-26-2009, 10:14 PM
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Default Re: Holiday Bullcrap

Why does any of this matter? Celebrate what you want to celebrate, how you want to celebrate it, when you want to celebrate it. Minute details and silly arguments aren't going to get anyone anywhere...
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  #28  
Old 12-26-2009, 10:39 PM
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Default Re: Holiday Bullcrap

Fun little bible quote for the OP who wishes to keep Christmas trees good and sacred:

Jeremiah 10:2-4: "Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen....For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and hammers, that it move not."

Never mind it being renamed, you shouldn't be having them at all. As people in this thread have said (both atheist and Christian), the exact date of christ's birth is unknown so the celebration of it was deliberately arranged to coincide with the pagan holiday of celebrating the winter solstice. The close proximity of the two events led to one absorbing the traditions of the other, something the bible is not kern on advocating.

But yeah, I have no problem with the customs of a holiday that contradict my own beliefs (or lack thereof), especially something as petty as a decorations name. Besides, Christmas is just as much a cultural holiday as it is a religious one nowadays, peple can celebrate it how they please. I'm not tipping those carol singers though ;D
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  #29  
Old 12-27-2009, 01:25 AM
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Default Re: Holiday Bullcrap

Quote:
Originally Posted by TitaniumAnimations View Post
Meh,

ein: Ich denke nicht über die Regierung kümmern.
zwei: Genau, warum feiern Atheisten es? Sie glauben nicht an eine Religion.
drei: Die Deutschen nehmen an den Abstimmungen nicht!

or in english:

Meh,

one: I don't care about the government.
two: Exactly, so why do atheists celebrate it? They don't believe in a religion.
three: The Germans don't vote!
1. You are **** out of luck then.
2. Because Atheist still enjoy the Christmas spirit. Anyone can enjoy and experience the Christmas spirit even if they aren't religious.
3. That's too bad.
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  #30  
Old 12-27-2009, 01:54 AM
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Default Re: Holiday Bullcrap

Quote:
Originally Posted by TitaniumAnimations View Post
Meh,

ein: Ich denke nicht über die Regierung kümmern.
zwei: Genau, warum feiern Atheisten es? Sie glauben nicht an eine Religion.
drei: Die Deutschen nehmen an den Abstimmungen nicht!

or in english:

Meh,

one: I don't care about the government.
two: Exactly, so why do atheists celebrate it? They don't believe in a religion.
three: The Germans don't vote!
Being this boldly butthurt and defensive isn't going to win you any points in this argument. :/

Anyway, the point I'd like to make is that, regardless of political correctness or religious arguments, the Christmas tree is a traditional symbol of the Christmas holiday, and calling it a "Holiday tree" sounds really stupid.
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