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  #1  
Old 09-16-2009, 05:02 AM
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Default Universal Healthcare: Is health a right?

Universal healthcare has been a hotly debated topic ever since Obama's entry into the White House. This, as many, is one of his agendas: to change healthcare in the United States hopefully for the better. One important idea that needs to be explored more thoroughly is whether or not universal healthcare is a right or not.

The debate here should be focused on whether or not universal healthcare is a right for all. This means that the costs of universal healthcare should not be considered in the debate. In addition, the idea of "socialized medicine" should also be discarded for this particular debate (though the idea in itself is unfounded, considering that the United States is the only democratic country in the world to have privatized medicine). Thus the name has been changed to the more appropriate "universal healthcare" terminology.

For more information about universal healthcare, click here.

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Old 09-16-2009, 05:35 AM
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Default Re: Universal Healthcare: Is health a right?

Well, first of all, I think it should be acknowledged that the United States pays the most for its healthcare out of the world's "wealthy" countries because it has refused to institute national healthcare in order to maintain privatization, as you mentioned.

Mainly, what I know is that technological advancements seem to be paramount when considering the distribution of healthcare funds. Though Medicare does represent the growing senior population, there are no prominent groups that are representative of the middle class or those in poverty who have been turned away by even Medicaid, who claims to provide healthcare for those in poverty. As such, this privatization seems like a bit of a premature idea that we've instilled, because as medical technology advances, medical procedures - though more effective - become more expensive, and obviously less ideal for the middle class and those in poverty who just can't afford healthcare. To me, it just seems like we're approaching this in the wrong order or something.

I remember I read an article about a guy who, while visiting Japan, went to see a surgeon about something he wanted to get done, and not even jokingly, the surgeon admitted that though the next day was inconvenient, he could easily fit in the guy's surgery for the next week. In the United States, people have to plan surgeries several months in advance just to make sure they get a date. It seems to me that national healthcare is just the practical solution to our problems, as so many other nations have adopted the system and have met with substantial success - at least, compared to what little we manage to accomplish. I understand the idea of national healthcare is a bit of a touchy subject, but pragmatism should be the primary concern here. If we aren't practical, and we just let Medicare's expenses outrun its revenues, then we're screwed, really. Forgive me if I'm digressing too far into economic issues, but I felt I had to say it.

Besides, I'd say the federal government ought to come up with a reasonable solution to the economic situation before they get ahead to a social agenda on healthcare and all that. At least they'd get a lot more empathy.
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Old 09-16-2009, 09:41 PM
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Default Re: Universal Healthcare: Is health a right?

In regards to the thread title, the rights to life and security of person directly adressed in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights both cover one's health to an extent, so the answer to that is yes.

I do believe in universal health care, and I do believe in a public health care option. I don't think getting rid of private health insurers is a good idea but I do think we should punch them all hard in the mouths for screwing us over for years and then make laws against exclusion based on pre-existing conditions, but I don't think we should get rid of them.

And in regards to the current bill, while I definitely approve of the President's plan my immediate reaction is that to put it all in one bill is too freaking much. It was the same thing I said about the stimulus package. The entire point of the American congressional system is to slow bills like that down. The longer it is the more time it's going to take. Issue it through in little pieces... starting with pre-existing conditions.
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Old 09-16-2009, 10:06 PM
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Default Re: Universal Healthcare: Is health a right?

I'm not a US American so I can't write a fantastically huge post with much knowledge of your political history.

However, here in the UK, we have our National Health Service - the NHS. It's not perfect. It's sometimes short-staffed and sometimes there aren't enough beds. It doesn't always get you fixed as soon as private healthcare. However it's a lifesaver - honestly. My godmother would have died without the NHS, and my Dad would still be ill with a low haemoglobin count, because none of us can afford health insurance or the healthcare fees that seem to be imposed in the US.

So yes, I believe healthcare should be a right. Here, even if you're an illegal immigrant, you are treated for free by the NHS if you're unwell. I think it's wonderful, and even though I'm a full-time worker and therefore a tax-payer, I don't begrudge them that - everyone has the right to life if they can possibly be saved, and how would that happen without our state-funded healthcare? Nobody should be refused treatment just because they don't have the money.

May I share a few of my NHS benefits?

I can get an appointment and have a chat with my GP without having to pay. I have free physiotherapy every month or two for my overly-curved spine. I had a mole removed within a couple of weeks of asking my GP. I get free contraceptive pills and reasonably cheap dental care (which is free until you're 18 or finish higher education). Dad, as he's now 60+, gets free prescriptions for his blood pressure and cholesterol. One of my close friends has had cost-free treatment for her epilepsy since she was 15 (she's now in her 30s). Another would have died at a very young age without surgery on his heart. He has checkups every couple of weeks.

I can't imagine a UK without the NHS, if I'm perfectly honest, and I don't like to hear about my friends in the US often suffering because they can't even afford to see a local doctor. It should definitely be completely accessible to anyone that needs it.

(I'm really sorry if I strayed a bit too much from the topic there ._.).
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Last edited by Camisado; 09-16-2009 at 10:09 PM.
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  #5  
Old 09-16-2009, 10:59 PM
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Default Re: Universal Healthcare: Is health a right?

Health is not an inalienable right. The US does not try to provide equality of condition, merely equality of opportunity. The right to life is not the same thing as the right to health; many can never have good health regardless of what the government can do. The US cannot and should not provide your healthcare, but merely provide you the same opportunity to get healthcare as everyone else.
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  #6  
Old 09-17-2009, 02:56 AM
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Default Re: Universal Healthcare: Is health a right?

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Originally Posted by Lusankya View Post
Health is not an inalienable right. The US does not try to provide equality of condition, merely equality of opportunity. The right to life is not the same thing as the right to health; many can never have good health regardless of what the government can do. The US cannot and should not provide your healthcare, but merely provide you the same opportunity to get healthcare as everyone else.
I say the right to life does include health care, or have you forgotten that people often die from serious illness because they can't afford the cost of medical care?
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  #7  
Old 09-23-2009, 04:48 AM
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Default Re: Universal Healthcare: Is health a right?

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Originally Posted by Lusankya View Post
Health is not an inalienable right. The US does not try to provide equality of condition, merely equality of opportunity. The right to life is not the same thing as the right to health; many can never have good health regardless of what the government can do. The US cannot and should not provide your healthcare, but merely provide you the same opportunity to get healthcare as everyone else.
Our healthcare system as it is makes it so that your right to healthcare is the ball and chain shackled onto your economic status. So far as the government is concerned, as long as all the education and job opportunities are open to all walks of life, they can't be directly faulted for how crappy our healthcare system can be. Yes, it is partially their fault, but it is also true that they provide us with all the utilities we need to take advantage of our system. You're kind of right, but the federal government can do a lot to alleviate the pressures of healthcare hardships.

But, uh, if the federal government doesn't provide our healthcare with the tax dollars the system is built upon, do you suppose that interest groups would sanction our healthcare for us? I see where you're coming from, but we kind of trapped ourselves - we need the federal government to solve this problem.
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  #8  
Old 09-26-2009, 05:58 PM
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Default Re: Universal Healthcare: Is health a right?

Since lately, I've been thinking that Concierge Medicine and the following controversies were the primary reasons that were responsible for actual debates on revamp on a Medical System.

Concierge Medicine and its annual retainer fees are a luxury that the American common man/household cannot afford, and it also is providing an easier/alternate way for doctors to earn high annual fees...with limited benefits, but that's an increasing trend. Unfortunately, it's not an option for anyone but the wealthy, so the only option for (Uninsured people/immigrants) is a more affordable system.

The current healthcare systems does have some flaws, but overall, in spite of looking promising- it may potentially fail, but all signs point to a positive impact that can and is more likely to take place.

Of course, once the fear mongering that this would lead to a socialist government era...is not entirely unjustified. They may have genuine fears, the only problem is there's a very limited possibility that the people would understand the problems, would have an open mind and consider all avenues or an alternate system, or would be unwilling to listen/completely biased due to other below-the-surface (potentially irrational) reasons and factors.
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Old 10-01-2009, 03:48 AM
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Default Re: Universal Healthcare: Is health a right?

I can't read right now, I'm in a hurry, so sorry if the answer is above me but I was wondering why Republicans are against this. G2G.
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Old 10-03-2009, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: Universal Healthcare: Is health a right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camisado View Post
I'm not a US American so I can't write a fantastically huge post with much knowledge of your political history.

However, here in the UK, we have our National Health Service - the NHS. It's not perfect. It's sometimes short-staffed and sometimes there aren't enough beds. It doesn't always get you fixed as soon as private healthcare. However it's a lifesaver - honestly. My godmother would have died without the NHS, and my Dad would still be ill with a low haemoglobin count, because none of us can afford health insurance or the healthcare fees that seem to be imposed in the US.

So yes, I believe healthcare should be a right. Here, even if you're an illegal immigrant, you are treated for free by the NHS if you're unwell. I think it's wonderful, and even though I'm a full-time worker and therefore a tax-payer, I don't begrudge them that - everyone has the right to life if they can possibly be saved, and how would that happen without our state-funded healthcare? Nobody should be refused treatment just because they don't have the money.

May I share a few of my NHS benefits?

I can get an appointment and have a chat with my GP without having to pay. I have free physiotherapy every month or two for my overly-curved spine. I had a mole removed within a couple of weeks of asking my GP. I get free contraceptive pills and reasonably cheap dental care (which is free until you're 18 or finish higher education). Dad, as he's now 60+, gets free prescriptions for his blood pressure and cholesterol. One of my close friends has had cost-free treatment for her epilepsy since she was 15 (she's now in her 30s). Another would have died at a very young age without surgery on his heart. He has checkups every couple of weeks.

I can't imagine a UK without the NHS, if I'm perfectly honest, and I don't like to hear about my friends in the US often suffering because they can't even afford to see a local doctor. It should definitely be completely accessible to anyone that needs it.
Straight up.

In Canada, it's the same. If you want to see a doctor, if you need attention, you get it. Free. It's just there. I thank my lucky stars it is that way. I sure as hell could not afford to PAY for that stuff. I don't even understand how Americans live the way they do; If you have no money, you're gonna suffer? That's pretty screwed up.

Yes, i think it's a right.
To turn away a suffering human just goes against their human rights. And over money? No way. If the United States adopted free health care, they might actually deserve a title such as "Greatest Nation on Earth". Might. It's not really that hard. I guess it comes down to taxes. Ya'll can either pay to keep the strongest military on the planet, or pay to ensure that your child can see a doctor when it has the flu. Toss up! Or, the government can pull their thumbs out of their "ears" and start thinking about the citizens of the country they run instead of the hundred or so other countries out there. The greatest power in the world isn't even watching it's own back. Pret-tee screwwwwed up.

Universal Health Care! Try it!
I'm out!
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Old 10-03-2009, 06:34 PM
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Default Re: Universal Healthcare: Is health a right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alonso View Post
I can't read right now, I'm in a hurry, so sorry if the answer is above me but I was wondering why Republicans are against this. G2G.
Republicans are against it because they're against the expansion of government, which a public health insurance option would be doing. More importantly, a lot of congressmen in general regardless of party are against it because they're sitting comfortably in the pockets of private health insurance companies who contribute so very much to their campaign finances.
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Old 10-03-2009, 06:57 PM
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Default Re: Universal Healthcare: Is health a right?

Now, as nice as Universal Healthcare sounds I think that in my own opinion, it would cost too much to supply everyone with healthcare and where are they going to get the money after the government supply is empty? we the pockets of the people of the united states thats who.
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Old 10-07-2009, 02:46 PM
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Default Re: Universal Healthcare: Is health a right?

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Originally Posted by ROXASISALIVE View Post
Now, as nice as Universal Healthcare sounds I think that in my own opinion, it would cost too much to supply everyone with healthcare and where are they going to get the money after the government supply is empty? we the pockets of the people of the united states thats who.
Still, that means that the poor would need to pay less taxes, since the rich would probably have to may a higher proportion of their income as taxes. The problem is that it would still not be enough to satisfy the overwhelming demand that will result, especially in a country with hundreds of millions of people. Obviously, free or not, each system has its own drawbacks. A solution that keeps these drawbacks minimal would be desired, of course, but I'm not sure what system it would be...
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Old 10-07-2009, 03:11 PM
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Default Re: Universal Healthcare: Is health a right?

Health care is a business, and so long as business creates money, business thrives and continues.

Point being, everyone come to Canada!
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Old 10-07-2009, 03:24 PM
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Default Re: Universal Healthcare: Is health a right?

Taking nothing away from universal healthcare itself, privatized medicine isnt as bad as its made out to be, some of the worlds topic doctors have come to this country because its run like a business. Giving us some of the best overall talent in the health care field. there is no doubt that something needs to be done about the current system and the way its run.
I saw a debat on this issue and the way the bill reads out says that doctors get paid for each visit..there for enchouraging them to get people to come in more to make more money.
I have HMO which by no means is great, Ive heard serval times that HMO doctors are less likely to tell you somethings wrong because its saves the company suppling it money.

Seems to me that people need to sit down and make a plan for healthcare that doesnt screw us in every direction.
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