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Pokemon: General Board General discussion about Pokemon in general. If the topic of your thread does not fall into the subjects in the other boards, post it there. In other words, everything else belongs here if it doesn't have a board of its own.


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  #16  
Old 11-19-2012, 03:24 PM
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Default Re: Guess what I just hatched!!!

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Originally Posted by goldwynaut View Post
there are vitamins and wings because they boost your stats, they say they slightly boost your pokemons stats, it does not say they give you EVs. and remember snowdrop that pokemon is intended for kids, i dont think many kids go to smogon to learn about EVs and IVs, they added them to the game to make it seem more alive, almost no pokemon are alike anymore, thanks to IVs and EVs, it was not made as and easter egg for smogonites.
Explain the usage of the Salon in Join Avenue, then. It reduces stats so you can re-EV train, and also, what about the people in the games who tell you how much you have EV trained your Pokémon? I used to hate the idea of EV training, but I was battling a close friend of mine who EV trains, and she pwned me with a Blissey with 500-odd Hit Points. I personally don't do much EV training myself, as I find it a bit of an annoying process.

It's okay if you don't EV train yourself, but you should at least accept it. Also, not only kids play Pokémon. Adults do as well. My final point is that we don't use Smogon, either. I've never been to Smogon myself, actually, nor has my friend with the Blissey. EV training isn't all about Smogon. Also, vitamins, wings & fitness places in Join Avenue are to help EV training, but players are meant to find out about EV training themselves, which we have.

EDIT: Another note, Pokémon is not all about EV training. You don't need to EV train to play or enjoy Pokémon. EV training is just for people who want to give their Pokémon a boost and a strategy for competitive battling, which makes it a lot more competitive than randomness.
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  #17  
Old 11-19-2012, 04:07 PM
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Default Re: Guess what I just hatched!!!

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Originally Posted by Dark Moonlight View Post
Explain the usage of the Salon in Join Avenue, then. It reduces stats so you can re-EV train, and also, what about the people in the games who tell you how much you have EV trained your Pokémon? I used to hate the idea of EV training, but I was battling a close friend of mine who EV trains, and she pwned me with a Blissey with 500-odd Hit Points. I personally don't do much EV training myself, as I find it a bit of an annoying process.

It's okay if you don't EV train yourself, but you should at least accept it. Also, not only kids play Pokémon. Adults do as well. My final point is that we don't use Smogon, either. I've never been to Smogon myself, actually, nor has my friend with the Blissey. EV training isn't all about Smogon. Also, vitamins, wings & fitness places in Join Avenue are to help EV training, but players are meant to find out about EV training themselves, which we have.

EDIT: Another note, Pokémon is not all about EV training. You don't need to EV train to play or enjoy Pokémon. EV training is just for people who want to give their Pokémon a boost and a strategy for competitive battling, which makes it a lot more competitive than randomness.
the stat boost service/items in pokemon are not necessarily about EV training just because they have something to do with EVs, and the salloon is for happiness, they will refuse to groom your pokemon if your pokemon is already happy. just because they boost stats dosnt mean they are connected to EV training, i myself used the stat boosting items in R/S/E, not because i was EV training, but because i liked the fact that my pokemons stats were boosted.

also, we, (as in the pokemon community in general) didnt discover it, it was most likely discovered by a lonely basement dweller who had a little too much time on his hands and decided to do some experiments with pokemon, and so he discovered it all and triggered the storm.

again, pokemon is targeted towards children, and i dont think kids even know what natures do.
  #18  
Old 11-19-2012, 09:13 PM
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Default Re: Guess what I just hatched!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldwynaut View Post
the stat boost service/items in pokemon are not necessarily about EV training just because they have something to do with EVs, and the salloon is for happiness, they will refuse to groom your pokemon if your pokemon is already happy. just because they boost stats dosnt mean they are connected to EV training, i myself used the stat boosting items in R/S/E, not because i was EV training, but because i liked the fact that my pokemons stats were boosted.

also, we, (as in the pokemon community in general) didnt discover it, it was most likely discovered by a lonely basement dweller who had a little too much time on his hands and decided to do some experiments with pokemon, and so he discovered it all and triggered the storm.

again, pokemon is targeted towards children, and i dont think kids even know what natures do.
You sorely underestimate childrens capacity for gaming. Rather than a "basement dweller" it was probably just an ordinary kid like most of the users here who discovered natures.

You are right about Vitamins and Wings not being ALL about EV training, BUT, they ARE the main reason.

For wings specifically, they don't say it's directly tied to EV. but do you ever wonder why they go passed the vitamin limit?

It's to help EV train pokemon. that's the ONLY reason.

It's the same with the Stores in Join Avenue. YES they do also help with happiness, but their main reason is to help EV train their pokemon, hence why the Gym for example, lets you train in specific stats, not just randomly boosting a beneficial stat of a pokemon.

With regards to Happiness and grooming, there are berries to reduce happiness as well as stats.

I won't dispute that those facilities and items aren't just directly connected to EV training, but they to play some part in it, THAT you can't dispute.
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  #19  
Old 11-19-2012, 10:31 PM
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Default Re: Guess what I just hatched!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldwynaut View Post
the stat boost service/items in pokemon are not necessarily about EV training just because they have something to do with EVs, and the salloon is for happiness, they will refuse to groom your pokemon if your pokemon is already happy. just because they boost stats dosnt mean they are connected to EV training, i myself used the stat boosting items in R/S/E, not because i was EV training, but because i liked the fact that my pokemons stats were boosted.

also, we, (as in the pokemon community in general) didnt discover it, it was most likely discovered by a lonely basement dweller who had a little too much time on his hands and decided to do some experiments with pokemon, and so he discovered it all and triggered the storm.

again, pokemon is targeted towards children, and i dont think kids even know what natures do.
you're trying to sound like you know a lot more about the game than everybody else but some of the facts you're providing are just entirely inaccurate
so maybe
just stop

If Pokemon wasn't meant to be competitve as you seem to be arguing, then there wouldn't be huge Pokemon tournaments in real life.
If it wasn't meant to be competitive, there wouldn't be in-game PWT downloads of teams used in real life Pokemon tournaments where the NPCs have Pokemon that make strategic usage of natures, EVs, and IVs, IVs especially with many of the participants making use of Hidden Power which relies on a very specific set of IVs.

Hidden Values and Natures were absolutely meant to be discovered. Without knowledge of them, there would be no competitve battling, or at least it wouldn't be remotely as refined as it currently is. In any game with this many characters, moves, items, and multiplayer capability, the developers are going to WANT players to make use of everything available to them. The developers certainly aren't ignorant to players' responses to the mathematics specifically coded into the game. In fact, the developers have (especially lately) been catering to it, rewarding players that dig deeper into the core mechanics of Pokemon.

Finally, by snidely remarking that "some basement dweller" discovered the mechanics behind Pokemon training, you just made yourself sound like an elitist jerk.

Anyway, sure, most casual kid gamers aren't looking so deeply into this. But that's pretty much the definition of the term casual. But as for capacity for gaming and as it relates to age, have you ever heard of the phrase "Junior Division"? The kids who win real-life world tournaments are not ignorant to these mechanics, either, I can guarantee you that.
There are a LOT of competitive Pokemon players, and saying the developers probably don't mean to put in features that coincidentally help these people out a lot is just a wrong opinion.


but this thread wasn't even made for this conversation in the first place, awesome hatch snowdrop.
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Last edited by Steak; 11-19-2012 at 10:34 PM.
  #20  
Old 11-19-2012, 11:45 PM
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Default Re: Guess what I just hatched!!!

Now that we're back on topic, i've been trying to breed a "Relaxed natured" Eevee with the highest characteristic for Sp.Def, except I keep getting "Sturdy Body" gets annoying after 5 hours so i just went with it lol.

Was aiming for Def/Sp.Def Glaceon
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  #21  
Old 11-20-2012, 12:05 AM
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Default Re: Guess what I just hatched!!!

Wow, I wasn't expecting to log on to all this! You go away for a few hours and the Presidential Debate ensues. ;P But thanks everyone!

@Zetsu: Yeah, sometimes breeding can be super frustrating. It takes forever and there's always that little, unavoidable aspect of randomness. But it eventually pays off. I love Glaceon!
  #22  
Old 11-20-2012, 05:41 AM
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Default Re: Guess what I just hatched!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetsu View Post
You sorely underestimate childrens capacity for gaming. Rather than a "basement dweller" it was probably just an ordinary kid like most of the users here who discovered natures.

You are right about Vitamins and Wings not being ALL about EV training, BUT, they ARE the main reason.

For wings specifically, they don't say it's directly tied to EV. but do you ever wonder why they go passed the vitamin limit?

It's to help EV train pokemon. that's the ONLY reason.

It's the same with the Stores in Join Avenue. YES they do also help with happiness, but their main reason is to help EV train their pokemon, hence why the Gym for example, lets you train in specific stats, not just randomly boosting a beneficial stat of a pokemon.

With regards to Happiness and grooming, there are berries to reduce happiness as well as stats.

I won't dispute that those facilities and items aren't just directly connected to EV training, but they to play some part in it, THAT you can't dispute.
no, the ONLY reason they are there is to boost your stats, you do not have to EV train to take advantage, and the berries are there so you can get the happiness in trade for a small debuff, they are useful, but they probably were not meant to EV train in the first place

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steak View Post
you're trying to sound like you know a lot more about the game than everybody else but some of the facts you're providing are just entirely inaccurate
so maybe
just stop

If Pokemon wasn't meant to be competitve as you seem to be arguing, then there wouldn't be huge Pokemon tournaments in real life.
If it wasn't meant to be competitive, there wouldn't be in-game PWT downloads of teams used in real life Pokemon tournaments where the NPCs have Pokemon that make strategic usage of natures, EVs, and IVs, IVs especially with many of the participants making use of Hidden Power which relies on a very specific set of IVs.

Hidden Values and Natures were absolutely meant to be discovered. Without knowledge of them, there would be no competitve battling, or at least it wouldn't be remotely as refined as it currently is. In any game with this many characters, moves, items, and multiplayer capability, the developers are going to WANT players to make use of everything available to them. The developers certainly aren't ignorant to players' responses to the mathematics specifically coded into the game. In fact, the developers have (especially lately) been catering to it, rewarding players that dig deeper into the core mechanics of Pokemon.

Finally, by snidely remarking that "some basement dweller" discovered the mechanics behind Pokemon training, you just made yourself sound like an elitist jerk.

Anyway, sure, most casual kid gamers aren't looking so deeply into this. But that's pretty much the definition of the term casual. But as for capacity for gaming and as it relates to age, have you ever heard of the phrase "Junior Division"? The kids who win real-life world tournaments are not ignorant to these mechanics, either, I can guarantee you that.
There are a LOT of competitive Pokemon players, and saying the developers probably don't mean to put in features that coincidentally help these people out a lot is just a wrong opinion.


but this thread wasn't even made for this conversation in the first place, awesome hatch snowdrop.
i am literally rolling on the floor in manic laughter
  #23  
Old 11-20-2012, 11:49 AM
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Default Re: Guess what I just hatched!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldwynaut View Post
no, the ONLY reason they are there is to boost your stats, you do not have to EV train to take advantage, and the berries are there so you can get the happiness in trade for a small debuff, they are useful, but they probably were not meant to EV train in the first place
Nonsensical person is nonsensical.


Quote:
Originally Posted by goldwynaut View Post
i am literally rolling on the floor in manic laughter


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  #24  
Old 11-20-2012, 01:29 PM
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Default Re: Guess what I just hatched!!!

what do you mean nonsense? i am just telling the truth. EVs are not easter eggs for smogonites to discover, they are there to make the game more alive, the vitamins are for boosting your stats, not making EV training easier, and the same with feathers. and gamefreak did not intend EV training to be discovered, neither IV breeding.
  #25  
Old 11-20-2012, 02:43 PM
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Default Re: Guess what I just hatched!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldwynaut View Post
what do you mean nonsense? i am just telling the truth. EVs are not easter eggs for smogonites to discover, they are there to make the game more alive, the vitamins are for boosting your stats, not making EV training easier, and the same with feathers. and gamefreak did not intend EV training to be discovered, neither IV breeding.
Will you please just shut up about Smogonites? EV training does not revolve around Smogon! Also, if Gamefreak put EV/IV training into their games, there's a chance it's going to be discovered, so obviously they intended us to end up knowing, otherwise they would've just left the whole EV/IV business alone. Also, no, EVs are NOT easter eggs for anyone. EVs are to make the game more alive for the people interested in them, so they can mould their team into something new.

The vitamins say they are for boosting the stats, and if you don't care about EVs, that's what they do for you. But if you are interested in EV training, they help greatly with the EV training process.

So, back to the "Gamefreak didn't want them to be found". There's always a chance that any mechanic in a game will be discovered, especially Pokémon, so if you didn't want it to be discovered, why put it in a game? Also, if they don't want EV training to be discovered, why put NPCs in who tell you if you've hit the EV limit or not? Why include natures? It's not Gamefreak's way of responding to the fans' discovery, it's because Gamefreak wants people to EV train.

Your argument is ridiculous and I can't believe you still keep trying to brush it off. You don't have to like EV training and you don't have to participate in it yourself, but you should just accept that EVs are here, they've been discovered and that lots of people talk about EV training.

Also, about your "kids" argument, I know a group of kids who EV train like crazy and are totally into competitive battling with each other and trying out different strategies. Kids do EV train, y'know.

EDIT: A final note, to put it very shortly:
You don't have to like EVs, but just shut up and accept them. I didn't much like the idea of EVs when I first discovered them, either, but I never went out and argued. I just let them go on with their EV training.
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Last edited by Dark Moonlight; 11-20-2012 at 02:46 PM.
  #26  
Old 11-20-2012, 04:35 PM
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Default Re: Guess what I just hatched!!!

yes, but gamefreak was obviously not aware that 40 year old nerds (aka: smogonites) play pokemon, neither were they aware that they would turn it all into what it is today. nintendo makes games that are fun to play, do you find it fun to kill the same underleveled creature dozens of times like a poacher? of course not, if they intended EV training to be a part of the actual game it would probably be and NPC teaching you about it, and they would have made it so you can do it on your actual journey with your beloved pokemon. and random wi-fi battles are totally screwed up by it, as said, pokemon is for kids, and any kid who tries to make a random wi-fi battle will without any mercy have any pokemon in his/her team brutally murdered by a lv:100 ev trained garchomp. thats not very fun is it?
  #27  
Old 11-20-2012, 05:01 PM
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Default Re: Guess what I just hatched!!!

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Originally Posted by goldwynaut View Post
yes, but gamefreak was obviously not aware that 40 year old nerds (aka: smogonites) play pokemon, neither were they aware that they would turn it all into what it is today. nintendo makes games that are fun to play, do you find it fun to kill the same underleveled creature dozens of times like a poacher? of course not, if they intended EV training to be a part of the actual game it would probably be and NPC teaching you about it, and they would have made it so you can do it on your actual journey with your beloved pokemon. and random wi-fi battles are totally screwed up by it, as said, pokemon is for kids, and any kid who tries to make a random wi-fi battle will without any mercy have any pokemon in his/her team brutally murdered by a lv:100 ev trained garchomp. thats not very fun is it?
Three words: What the hell?

I think you're running out of arguments here. This makes little sense, and I hate to insult you, but it is really, really stupid. No offence, but seriously? Grow up.
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  #28  
Old 11-20-2012, 07:17 PM
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Default Re: Guess what I just hatched!!!

y u so mad?
  #29  
Old 11-20-2012, 07:32 PM
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Default Re: Guess what I just hatched!!!

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y u so mad?
Y u come and ruin such a perfectly innocent thread?
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  #30  
Old 11-20-2012, 07:36 PM
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Default Re: Guess what I just hatched!!!

i just made a joke, you and the others are to ones who caused all this
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