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  #1  
Old 01-16-2012, 10:25 PM
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Default If by "Christian love" you mean hatred & contempt...

As we all know, Jessica Ahlquist stood up for the U.S constitution by fighting against religion in a government-funded school. But are the very ethical and moral Christians being civil and respecting to a sixteen year old girl?
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Old 01-24-2012, 06:19 PM
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Default Re: If by "Christian love" you mean hatred & contempt...

*sigh...

It's always the idiots who only CLAIM to act out of Christian love that get the media's attention.

It's sad, really. I'm just going stand up and say, as a Christian, I don't support what they're doing. I don't think that Christ ever once mentioned to be hostile to those who are different than us. I pray that she comes out of this allright, and that the people who are being hateful stop.

Just because you believe, doesn't make you better than everyone else. There's nowhere in the Bible that justifies that behavior.

I wish I could somehow meaningfully apologize for what they're doing. I'll leave it at this; I pray that some day the faith (collectively), can be better than this.
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Old 01-24-2012, 06:39 PM
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Default Re: If by "Christian love" you mean hatred & contempt...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E Coyote View Post
*sigh...

It's always the idiots who only CLAIM to act out of Christian love that get the media's attention.

It's sad, really. I'm just going stand up and say, as a Christian, I don't support what they're doing. I don't think that Christ ever once mentioned to be hostile to those who are different than us. I pray that she comes out of this allright, and that the people who are being hateful stop.

Just because you believe, doesn't make you better than everyone else. There's nowhere in the Bible that justifies that behavior.

I wish I could somehow meaningfully apologize for what they're doing. I'll leave it at this; I pray that some day the faith (collectively), can be better than this.
While I agree with and support your view, the Bible justifies any threat or act of violence.

And the reason these types of Christians make the news is because they are allowed to be the most vocal about it.
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Last edited by Teddiursa of the Sky; 01-24-2012 at 06:43 PM.
  #4  
Old 01-24-2012, 07:01 PM
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Default Re: If by "Christian love" you mean hatred & contempt...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pe2k Voices View Post
While I agree with and support your view, the Bible justifies any threat or act of violence.
Quote:
“Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against a fellow Israelite, but love your neighbor as yourself." - Leviticus 19:18

"Owe nothing to anyone—except for your obligation to love one another. If you love your neighbor, you will fulfill the requirements of God’s law." - Romans 13:8

"If your enemies are hungry, give them food to eat. If they are thirsty, give them water to drink." - Proverbs 25:21
The Christian attitude is never violence, it is ALWAYS love.

And in case you think to quote the Mosaic law where many punishments include stoning, true Christians believe that the law was fulfilled through the coming of Christ, and therefore we are not bound to deal punishments of death.

Quote:
"Sin is no longer your master, for you no longer live under the requirements of the law. Instead, you live under the freedom of God’s grace." - Romans 6:14

"Imitate God, therefore, in everything you do, because you are his dear children. Live a life filled with love, following the example of Christ. He loved us and offered himself as a sacrifice for us, a pleasing aroma to God." - Ephesians 5:1-2

“Teacher,” they said to Jesus, “this woman was caught in the act of adultery. The law of Moses says to stone her. What do you say?” [...] They kept demanding an answer, so he stood up again and said, “All right, but let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone!” [...] "Didn’t even one of them [accusers] condemn you?” “No, Lord,” she said. And Jesus said, “Neither do I. Go and sin no more.” - John 8:4-11
The Christian attitude is that of love, and the laws that used to justify violence and punishment to fulfill the death because of sin have been fulfilled through the death of Christ.
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Old 01-24-2012, 08:33 PM
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Default Re: If by "Christian love" you mean hatred & contempt...

Quote:
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. (Matthew 10:33-36)
Quote:
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:18)
And not to mention countless threats of eternal damnation.

Care to explain the Crusades, Thirty Years War, Protestant-Catholic Wars, The Burning of the Witches, and the lynching of homosexuals? Charlemagne? Roman Catholic Empire? May I also point out that Christians still accept the Ten Commandments. Breaking any of these laws is punishable by death.
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  #6  
Old 01-24-2012, 11:13 PM
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Default Re: If by "Christian love" you mean hatred & contempt...

Even though I am not religious (called Athiest by many of my peers, but i think Athiest has many negative connotations), these comments make me sick to my stomach. I literally had to stop reading due to the amount of hate that was present in those tweets and Facebook posts.

From what I have seen, Religion is a huge mess. Maybe that really does make me an athiest, i don't know. It causes problems, and I still feel like prayers in schools are making people who are athiests try to believe in god (if only for a few moments).

Yes, they can think of something else, but it still bugs me sometimes that we ALWAYS have to sing spirituals about Jesus in my music class...There are plenty of songs out there that are upbeat and NOT about Jesus.

Props to this girl for holding up against all the hate.
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Old 01-25-2012, 04:34 AM
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Default Re: If by "Christian love" you mean hatred & contempt...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pe2k Voices View Post
And not to mention countless threats of eternal damnation.
"Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn others, or it will all come back against you. Forgive others, and you will be forgiven." - Luke 6:37

First, eternal damnation is never something a human being can give out to another. The threat of eternal damnation is God's threat alone

Yes. Jesus brings a sword. Even though most people choose to interpret this as a metaphor for the suffering that Christians are given on Earth, you can also look at this as a basis for violence. However, Christ never 'gave the sword' to mankind, and never directs the apostles to take up arms against anyone, as opposed to the Qu'ran which directly tells its followers;

Quote:
Then when the Sacred Months [the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar] have passed, then kill the Mushrikun [unbelievers] wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush." (9:7) - Taken from here
In fact, Christ even rebuked Peter when Peter was trying to fight off the soldiers that were going to arrest Jesus;

Quote:
Then the others grabbed Jesus and arrested him. 51 But one of the men with Jesus pulled out his sword and struck the high priest’s slave, slashing off his ear. “Put away your sword,” Jesus told him. “Those who use the sword will die by the sword." - Matthew 26:50-52


Quote:
Care to explain the Crusades, Thirty Years War, Protestant-Catholic Wars, The Burning of the Witches, and the lynching of homosexuals? Charlemagne? Roman Catholic Empire?
Just because people do things in the name of religion doesn't mean the religion supports that idea. The media has used this to separate Islamic terrorists from normal everyday Muslims.

Just like the violence against this girl, there's no Biblical grounds for any of those events.

Quote:
May I also point out that Christians still accept the Ten Commandments. Breaking any of these laws is punishable by death.
I addressed the issue of the 10 commandments in my previous post. Because Jesus died as an offering for the fulfillment of the law, we are no longer bound by the law, and are not supposed to uphold the punishment side of that.
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Old 01-25-2012, 01:09 PM
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Default Re: If by "Christian love" you mean hatred & contempt...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E Coyote View Post
"Do not judge others, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn others, or it will all come back against you. Forgive others, and you will be forgiven." - Luke 6:37

First, eternal damnation is never something a human being can give out to another. The threat of eternal damnation is God's threat alone

Yes. Jesus brings a sword. Even though most people choose to interpret this as a metaphor for the suffering that Christians are given on Earth, you can also look at this as a basis for violence. However, Christ never 'gave the sword' to mankind, and never directs the apostles to take up arms against anyone, as opposed to the Qu'ran which directly tells its followers;



In fact, Christ even rebuked Peter when Peter was trying to fight off the soldiers that were going to arrest Jesus;







Just because people do things in the name of religion doesn't mean the religion supports that idea. The media has used this to separate Islamic terrorists from normal everyday Muslims.

Just like the violence against this girl, there's no Biblical grounds for any of those events.



I addressed the issue of the 10 commandments in my previous post. Because Jesus died as an offering for the fulfillment of the law, we are no longer bound by the law, and are not supposed to uphold the punishment side of that.
If you have read the Koran, you would know that it is filled with violence as well.

Typical Christian views. Pick and choose what to believe in the Bible. History proves otherwise about the "Christian attitude". Also, I fail to see how that justifies anything. So what if "God" has the right to threaten us? It just proves that God needs to rule us with fear, which is imperfect in every way.
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  #9  
Old 01-25-2012, 02:25 PM
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Default Re: If by "Christian love" you mean hatred & contempt...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pe2k Voices View Post
If you have read the Koran, you would know that it is filled with violence as well.
One of the quotes I used was directly from the Qu'ran/Koran, so yes, I am implying that it is filled with violence. Not to say that the Bible is not, just that it is not a central Christian tenet, whereas it is one of the main foundations of Islam.

Quote:
Typical Christian views. Pick and choose what to believe in the Bible. History proves otherwise about the "Christian attitude". Also, I fail to see how that justifies anything. So what if "God" has the right to threaten us? It just proves that God needs to rule us with fear, which is imperfect in every way.
Where did I pick and choose? I never made counter-statements to any of the quotes I used as evidence.

Also, I hardly think that the values of any religion should be based on what those that practice it actually promote. There's a great book/documentary called Lord Save Us From Your Followers which illustrates my point rather well. I would strongly recommend it to you.

As to your second point, God is the ruler of the universe, and therefore has the right to do what He wants to it. His rule through fear is actually a very Old Testament/Jewish view, where God has imposed these strict rules, and if we don't obey them, the punishment of death is what follows. Yikes. This is the God ruling through fear that you are envisioning. However, He also offers you a chance. Just try and live life the way He asks you to, believe in Him, and accept His offer of mercy. That's it. No strings attached. A God who should rightfully be feared is giving you a ticket to salvation.

That's a merciful God. That's why Christianity is so much different from other religions, at least from a dogmatic standpoint.
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Old 01-25-2012, 02:41 PM
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Default Re: If by "Christian love" you mean hatred & contempt...

I would strongly recommend the documentary Religulous to you.

It matters not what the "actual" message of a religion is. All that matters is how their people act.

From a dogmatic standpoint, yes. If a person mentioned what God was like before the birth of his "son", then people would be like "What is the difference between God and the devil?"
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  #11  
Old 01-25-2012, 02:47 PM
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Default Re: If by "Christian love" you mean hatred & contempt...

The bible is filled with violence...some of the worst traits of man are in there. It reminds me a lot of the lliad and the Odyssey. If you take that kinda of literature seriously you're bound to harm someone. People were much different back then, there struggles, life spans and even the way they looked at the world were completely different. They dont translate over to modern times very well. Ive been around a long time and never once experienced Christian love, or to be more direct Christian tolerance.
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Old 01-25-2012, 03:15 PM
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Default Re: If by "Christian love" you mean hatred & contempt...

Well, then I pray for both of you that someday people will be there to redeem this very unfortunate image that you have of us.
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Old 01-25-2012, 03:58 PM
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Default Re: If by "Christian love" you mean hatred & contempt...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E Coyote View Post
Well, then I pray for both of you that someday people will be there to redeem this very unfortunate image that you have of us.
I do believe most Christians are genuinely good people. The problem is that you unknowingly support a group that is vocal, violent, and intolerant in modern society.
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Old 01-25-2012, 10:28 PM
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Default Re: If by "Christian love" you mean hatred & contempt...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E Coyote View Post
Not to say that the Bible is not, just that it is not a central Christian tenet, whereas [violence] it is one of the main foundations of Islam.
Prove it in such a way that you can show Islam to be exactly that and not that it is at best your own interpretation. That is, of course, impossible. The fact of the matter is that if you ask followers of Islam even in America you'd know that this idea that the main foundations of Islam being violence is as valid as calling one of the main foundations of the Bible being violence. That is, you cannot accept one without the other.

Quote:
Also, I hardly think that the values of any religion should be based on what those that practice it actually promote. There's a great book/documentary called Lord Save Us From Your Followers which illustrates my point rather well. I would strongly recommend it to you.
I do think that it is irresponsible for one to blame the actions of a particular religion's followers to be the actions of a single follower, and then turn around and blame the actions of another particular religion's followers to be the actions of that religion itself.

Jesus camp was one of the more interesting documentaries that actually show how Christian evangelicals actually think and function very similarly to the so called terrorists.

Quote:
As to your second point, God is the ruler of the universe, and therefore has the right to do what He wants to it. His rule through fear is actually a very Old Testament/Jewish view, where God has imposed these strict rules, and if we don't obey them, the punishment of death is what follows. Yikes. This is the God ruling through fear that you are envisioning. However, He also offers you a chance. Just try and live life the way He asks you to, believe in Him, and accept His offer of mercy. That's it. No strings attached. A God who should rightfully be feared is giving you a ticket to salvation.

That's a merciful God. That's why Christianity is so much different from other religions, at least from a dogmatic standpoint.
You're actually not making sense. If by the fact that a God is capable of giving mercy to everybody, why doesn't he? Why must it be, by the strict law, that you must believe that he exists and give you mercy to be possible for one to gain such a salvation, even under the circumstance that such a person is a good person and is, perhaps, ignorant of the religion itself or even willingly state that the religion itself is hogwash? What if one believes in a religion that is atheistic in nature, such as Buddhism? How can I know that such a God isn't trying to promote skepticism and is actually trying to reward people who doubt the Bible?

By your definition, it does not matter what you do in your current life as long as you believe in god, so why does morality even matter under such a circumstance?

Also, did you study other religions as extensively as Christianity? In order to make the statement that Christianity is superior, you must have had extensive knowledge of other religions and how they work in order to make at least a strong enough comparison between two religions, even at a dogmatic level.
  #15  
Old 01-26-2012, 02:12 AM
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Default Re: If by "Christian love" you mean hatred & contempt...

I don't think being bad has anything to do with religion at all, people will be people regardless of what religion they practice.
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