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  #16  
Old 12-14-2011, 02:55 PM
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Default Re: Opinions on the President?

Though its only three posts, its a hell load of words I gotta read...through my (about2persent) dyslexia...-dies-
I shouldn't have just logged off without looking here first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusankya View Post
Fox is a hilarious joke of a news source, if impartiality were in your vocabulary you would know that.

Quick question: Did you actually listen to his speech, or are you just going off of what you've heard other people say he's said? I have my money on the latter, because otherwise "your eyes" are hilariously terrible.

I've got news for you: If you're at the income level where the tobacco tax is a large enough percentage of your income that it can make you go broke, then you are poor enough that you don't pay any income tax anyways, and in fact the government probably pays you more than you pay it. If paying 62 extra pennies per pack is enough to break your bank account you're at the income level where complaining about government taxation is the height of hypocrisy, as half of the government income is going towards giving what is basically free money to your income bracket.
The gross thing about this: I reas pennies as -other word for a dudes nuts that I dont want to say here- -3-

Now, I say, go on the fox website and say that. You'll probably be said wrong by at least two hundred people, more or less.

I actually, honestly, listened to most of his speech. You can't expect someone with even as much ADHD as I do to sit and listen to a what, two to three hour speech without either changing the channel or going to another room out of boredom and being all crazy. I did, hear, however that he was going to get the military people back home, and he's done that for few. With the two other wars, the people are probably back wherever the hell bombs are blowing up. If you think my eyes are terrible, then bingo, I need glasses then you're wrong. Sure, I need glasses, but I'm not deaf, I heard every word he said...that I was listening to.

Honestly, its not just tobacco. Its also food, the small amount of candy we get each month or two, all the crap my dad buys for his truck, auto repairs, taxes, hell, even school crap. There are most likely more things that I can't remember, but whatever. We arent exactly broke, but we might be in a matter of years if crappy prices keep getting higher which is why we dont go to Fred Myers, their crap is overpriced. A pair of blue shoes, two sizes too small, was somewhere in the 60-80 dollar range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlark View Post
Lol, Well, I got news for you--because I know how to shop, tobacco only costs me less than $10 a month. Smoking is a choice, and I chose to smoke. Because I like the taste. It's relaxing and it's the best time to think and have 10 minutes to myself. It doesn't make me sit around and ponder my face like pot. Doesn't hurt my bills, intelligence, or liver like beer. So you know what--I hold my cig up high lol (I never in my life thought I'd post that here).

And in other news for you--because Medicare got cut, my company had to shut down two facilities in my region. Supposedly we weren't hit as bad as a couple other companies, but either way. That's facilities being lost, caused by people that rely on medicare leaving the facility because they can't afford the proper care they need. And budgets in healthcare providers being cut. Which comes back to facilities being shut down. Which leads to job loss, overcrowding in some facilities, and higher unemployment, which leads to lower incomes, which leads to lower budgets for healthcare on the patient end... I'm ranting... either way--that's a job loss of about 100-150 people in decent paying to good paying careers. And usually careers that offer benefits and what have you.These people are forced to lose their insurance and get jobs flippin' burgers at McDonalds. Luckily I pulled myself out of the fast food circuit and lucky enough to not be a part of the facilities that got shut down.

But who cares, right? The working population can suck an egg, right? It's only our HEALTHCARE system that we depend on if we get in a car crash or get cancer. We all plan to go to school and live forever. We're invincible--nyan.

So you know what--tell your mother you don't care about her medicare when she dies. There are bigger fish than taxes. There's civil liberties, healthcare, education, and international politics.

Eitherway... Obama's not the Messiah as some people have actually stated. I'll only vote for him if he's the best option on the ballot. In the meantime--who I vote for is dependent on who wins the primaries of both sides. This includes both Dem ans Pub, we'll see who the better of two evils are.

But what I'm trying to say is back to what I originally stated.

Does he deserve to win? Probably not.

Will he win? Most likely. Despite his track record, he's got a strong contigency of voters that'll back him.

But I got a personal question, why are you so trigger happy to bad mouth Moonkit?

Obama sucks, let's face it. I lost hope and I now have less change in my pocket. Bush was bad, but Obama's the same dance different song. Do I like Bush, no. Do I like Obama, yes. Does that make me a hypocrite? No. It's makes me open minded.
My parents would have posted that, if they knew how to sign up for this xD

Hell, my dad's friends might go from the trucking industry to Mickie D's (Yes, I did just call McDonald Mickie D's...its what I say irl xD). Honestly, all trucking is is caring stuff from FOOD to WOOD for furniture. Its not like we need it, eh? Same with HEALTHCARE. All the people can go **** themselves and die. Break your arms, we'll cost you -random amount of money here- to fix it, and you probably don't have that much. Get canser, and we'll cost you more.

Honestly, I agree partially on the 'Obama sucks' thing. He's no Osama, though his name is one letter off, and I normally joke around with their names irl, but either way, he's no killer, rapist, etc. (Firefox spell check thinks Osama=Obama misspelled)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pe2k Voices View Post
While I do think you are rather uneducated in this subject, I do understand you. Starting off young in a debate can do that to you. =) Just stick with it, listen to opinions (of both sides) and research facts, and you will become educated faster than you would ever believe.



Obama sucks? Is that because he is open to same-sex marriage? Hay now, let us keep this PG rated. ;)

But, I will face it, and deny it. Obama does not "suck." Obama, despite a lot of pressure, is doing relatively okay as president. He would make a better choice than someone like Sarah Palin or Rick Perry. *shivers*

Now that you don't have 60 cents, you won't be able to afford that 1 dollar taco at Taco Bell! OH NOEZ!!! Seriously though, you are complaining that the government is making you pay more to kill yourself.
Thank you, for notising that I'm probably not old enough to be debating about half of these subjects, but don't give a crap and do it anyway.

I agree with you on the Sarah Palin/Rick Perry thing. Completely.

-Guilty of not caring about the tobacco tax that I been yelling about-
But honestly, if someone gonna smoke, they gonna smoke, even if it makes them go broke along with the other crap.

---

I am Tokyokit, and I just wasted about 30 minutes of my life writing this.
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  #17  
Old 12-14-2011, 03:02 PM
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Default Re: Opinions on the President?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlark View Post
Lol, Well, I got news for you--because I know how to shop, tobacco only costs me less than $10 a month. Smoking is a choice, and I chose to smoke. Because I like the taste. It's relaxing and it's the best time to think and have 10 minutes to myself. It doesn't make me sit around and ponder my face like pot. Doesn't hurt my bills, intelligence, or liver like beer. So you know what--I hold my cig up high lol (I never in my life thought I'd post that here).
Which is great for you are all, but extrapolating to the general population based off of your own experience is a trademark of the partial and politically ignorant. That's why universities conduct scientific research.

Quote:
And in other news for you--because Medicare got cut, my company had to shut down two facilities in my region. Supposedly we weren't hit as bad as a couple other companies, but either way. That's facilities being lost, caused by people that rely on medicare leaving the facility because they can't afford the proper care they need. And budgets in healthcare providers being cut. Which comes back to facilities being shut down. Which leads to job loss, overcrowding in some facilities, and higher unemployment, which leads to lower incomes, which leads to lower budgets for healthcare on the patient end... I'm ranting... either way--that's a job loss of about 100-150 people in decent paying to good paying careers. And usually careers that offer benefits and what have you.These people are forced to lose their insurance and get jobs flippin' burgers at McDonalds. Luckily I pulled myself out of the fast food circuit and lucky enough to not be a part of the facilities that got shut down.

But who cares, right? The working population can suck an egg, right? It's only our HEALTHCARE system that we depend on if we get in a car crash or get cancer. We all plan to go to school and live forever. We're invincible--nyan.

So you know what--tell your mother you don't care about her medicare when she dies. There are bigger fish than taxes. There's civil liberties, healthcare, education, and international politics.
Oh, and guess why Medicare has to be cut? It's because the US now has some of the lowest income taxes it has had decades! You are exhibiting the classic fallacy: "I should pay less to the government but the government should pay me more!" It doesn't work that way. Money for Medicare has to come from somewhere. And if you are going to whine about taxes being too high, it is complete hypocrisy for you to complain about cuts to government services when the US is now saddled with the highest debt-to-GDP ratio it has ever had. You can't have it both ways. Either you get low taxes and low services, or you get high taxes and high services. I shouldn't even have to tell you this, it's basic economic sense.

Quote:
But I got a personal question, why are you so trigger happy to bad mouth Moonkit?
Because the only thing I despise more than blatant ignorance is ignorance of one's own ignorance. The least anyone can do is at least acknowledge the fact that they are ignorant and not go around spouting opinions based on hilariously wrong facts that a simple Google search proves wrong 2 minutes. Not that I myself am immune to thinking that I know more than I do, but at least I usually have the decency to check up on my "facts" before I post them.

I don't know the age of 99% of the posters on this forum, so I treat everyone in Discussion as though they were logical adults that are informed on the topic they are discussing.

Quote:
Obama sucks, let's face it. I lost hope and I now have less change in my pocket. Bush was bad, but Obama's the same dance different song. Do I like Bush, no. Do I like Obama, yes. Does that make me a hypocrite? No. It's makes me open minded.
And what makes you think that Obama should be able to wave his hands and instantly make the economy all better again. Why the hell do you believe that the President should be responsible for everything that goes on during his term? Obama inherited the economic crisis from Bush and he has done a damn fine job of preventing it from being even worse than it is now; if any President should be blamed for your pocket having less money, it should be Bush. But you shouldn't any President, because they aren't omnipotent. The forces at play in the economy are nearly impossible to foresee and even more impossible to control. Once a bubble forms, it is economically impossible to get rid of it safely; there's nothing anyone could have done to prevent the housing collapse that lead to this whole mess. Blaming the President for the current economic climate is simple, easy, and horrifically wrong.
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  #18  
Old 12-14-2011, 06:48 PM
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Default Re: Opinions on the President?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonKit View Post
Though its only three posts, its a hell load of words I gotta read...through my (about2persent) dyslexia...-dies-
I shouldn't have just logged off without looking here first.



The gross thing about this: I reas pennies as -other word for a dudes nuts that I dont want to say here- -3-

Now, I say, go on the fox website and say that. You'll probably be said wrong by at least two hundred people, more or less.

Fox News? They be a conservative mess with idiots like Bill O'Reilly. They have a biased agenda and would love nothing more to make any democrat look like a fool.

I actually, honestly, listened to most of his speech. You can't expect someone with even as much ADHD as I do to sit and listen to a what, two to three hour speech without either changing the channel or going to another room out of boredom and being all crazy. I did, hear, however that he was going to get the military people back home, and he's done that for few. With the two other wars, the people are probably back wherever the hell bombs are blowing up. If you think my eyes are terrible, then bingo, I need glasses then you're wrong. Sure, I need glasses, but I'm not deaf, I heard every word he said...that I was listening to.

Honestly, its not just tobacco. Its also food, the small amount of candy we get each month or two, all the crap my dad buys for his truck, auto repairs, taxes, hell, even school crap. There are most likely more things that I can't remember, but whatever. We arent exactly broke, but we might be in a matter of years if crappy prices keep getting higher which is why we dont go to Fred Myers, their crap is overpriced. A pair of blue shoes, two sizes too small, was somewhere in the 60-80 dollar range.

The prices have nothing to do with taxes. It has to do with inflation and the failing economy.


Honestly, I agree partially on the 'Obama sucks' thing. He's no Osama, though his name is one letter off, and I normally joke around with their names irl, but either way, he's no killer, rapist, etc. (Firefox spell check thinks Osama=Obama misspelled)

Comparing the two is absolutely insane. The only minute similarity is their names. He has not done anything wrong, unless you call a Pro-Choice and same-sex supporting world leader an evil thing.


Thank you, for notising that I'm probably not old enough to be debating about half of these subjects, but don't give a crap and do it anyway.

No problem. Just remember to research. That is what the rest of us do. =D

I agree with you on the Sarah Palin/Rick Perry thing. Completely.

Obama is the greatest decision out of all the clueless or crazy Republicans running. Between you and me, I am a political moderate. I do not favor any side (Democrats or Republicans), but I won't deny how stupid and ignorant the Republicans look right now.

-Guilty of not caring about the tobacco tax that I been yelling about-
But honestly, if someone gonna smoke, they gonna smoke, even if it makes them go broke along with the other crap.

If they are going to kill themselves because of a nicotine addiction, the least they can do is stop whining about how much it costs.

---

I am Tokyokit, and I just wasted about 30 minutes of my life writing this.

Do you enjoy debating? Do you enjoy writing? If so, than is it a waste? Nein, it is not. This is your first participation in a debate. You have to give it time. I have political and religious debates going on all the time nowadays. I even made a name for myself in DeviantArt. xDD
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  #19  
Old 12-14-2011, 08:22 PM
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Default Re: Opinions on the President?

Quote:
Is he okay?
Eh.

Quote:
Is he awful?
I guess he could be alot worse.

Quote:
Is he amazing?
Far from it.

Quote:
Should he be elected again?
Not really, but I'm not exactly happy with the other 2012 nominees running either.
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  #20  
Old 12-15-2011, 06:38 PM
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Default Re: Opinions on the President?

Obama tried to ban flavored dip, and is therefore the worst president ever.
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  #21  
Old 12-16-2011, 01:51 AM
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Default Re: Opinions on the President?

Thank you, karma. You know my pains with the politics of product regulation. Dip would be a hard one to fight against; the campaigns that fight tobacco in general don't fight dip to the same degree due to it's unpopularity in comparison to smoking. Which is why I smoke pipe tobacco in rolly form.

Not the point tho--Skylands, thank you--SHORT and to the point. Not long winded (like myself).

Quote:
From Lusankya - Oh, and guess why Medicare has to be cut? It's because the US now has some of the lowest income taxes it has had decades! You are exhibiting the classic fallacy: "I should pay less to the government but the government should pay me more!" It doesn't work that way. Money for Medicare has to come from somewhere. And if you are going to whine about taxes being too high, it is complete hypocrisy for you to complain about cuts to government services when the US is now saddled with the highest debt-to-GDP ratio it has ever had. You can't have it both ways. Either you get low taxes and low services, or you get high taxes and high services. I shouldn't even have to tell you this, it's basic economic sense.
Okay... if you're going to treat me like an idiot, I'll treat you like and idiot back. It's the Golden Rule. Treat others like you want to be treated yourself. Because you're not treating me like an adult, you're treating me like some stupid (euphemistically known as ignorant) hick. And you're not acting like an adult like you say you treat everybody here (even though you blatantly know that this is a Pokemon site, and over half the active users are probably in middle school or high school), you're acting like a late high school or college student.

There is a thing called a Medicare tax. Arguably a tax, because it runs a little bit like Social Security, but regardless of how much you make, you pay it out of your pay stub. And since it's taken out of your income to pay for a government service (which is fine with me, it's a vital and beautiful service considering the crap old folk had to deal with prior to WW2), it's arguably an income tax. Aka. A tax that's taken out of your income.

OH--And since you're an adult now, take a quick look at your pay stub. Do you have a paystub? OR, are you still in school? If you're in school, either your parents pay out of pocket, started a bank account when you were young, or you're on FAFSA (which is payed by taxes, or done by loan through the state, federal, treasury, etc. (depends on the loan)), which then, this wouldn't apply to you since you're technically not employed, but a student. Which is a different class of citizen. Somebody that pays for school, or is paid for school to get a good paying job, which in turn helps the economy. It's government insurance to get good educated workers by having good students. Employees pay 4.2% of their paycheck to SS. Employers pay 6.2%. If you make a ridiculous amount of money, the max amount you pay per check is capped at $110,100/yr, starting in 2012, which is up $3,100 from 2011 (This only really concerns businesses and Bill Gates)... Oh, if you're self-employed, SS takes out a couple digits over 10% (ouch, sorry). I don't remember, I'll have to look it up in my tax book. Medicare takes out 1.45% of you income and has no cap at all (which is nice, considering how much some folk really need it). These taxes regard EVERYBODY. So even though, I'm only giving about (*pulls out calculator*) $150-$195 a year to Medicare (You can now calculate that I make less than $20,000/yr lol), every other person is too, probably a lot more, I don't make much considering. Which evens out to a decent, government made, insurance policy. It's nice, it sorta' works, and despite it struggling, has been tickin' for over 40 years. This in consideration that not everybody uses Medicare, only when they need to. Usually when they're old or poor (the term, "tappin' my medicare for what it's worth"). Which is FINE with me. It's a GOOD, NECESSARY system that helps people save for the future, whether good or bad in outcome.

So yes... I know Medicare comes out of taxes. But did you know that there's a special tax for it simply called, Medicare? Same with Social Security. Who would've known?

Anyway--I'M NOT ARGUING ABOUT HIGH TAXES, STOP DEVIATING FROM THE POINT. I'm headed for tax school late next year, to hopefully become a consultant in 3 or 4 years. I know what taxes are!!! OH MY GOSH!!

My argument is credibility.

Say one thing--
--do another.

Nothing more. Which doesn't make anybody great. Mediocre at best.

I'm also saying, politicians are like metals. They'll always be metals. By-products of metals. But in the end. Break them down--they're still metal.

I'm not saying Obama's horrible. I'm just saying he isn't everything in the world. No politician really is. I make cracks about every single one, sort of like Jon Stewart or Colbert (just not as funny). I'm very cynical, I'm sorry if my existence offends you. Example: Bill Clinton=Slick Willy and George W. Bush=Bush is a Snatch, both play on words, I make lame jokes, I'm sorry...

...But going back to Medicare... Cutting Medicare essentially means, "We're taking the money we promised you through our federal insurance system, and are now using it to save our own hides or pay for other things." Which in turn hurts the healthcare facilities and economy. Again, one of the strong points in we have financially. Job loss, oh well... I think we're used to it by now. There's always Stimulus Packages! They come from the air! Woo-hoo!

I'm not complaining about stimulus. Nobody complains about free money. But it only helped a little bit overall, if anything. And quite possibly devalued the dollar some, it's basic economics, I dunno. Let me ponder that. But it was an attempt to slow the recession, which is okay. Attempts are fine, Dow and Nasdaq just dropped... Fishsticks.

And I know promises Presidents make are almost pointless. Every Presidential candidate makes outrageous promises somewhere; to believe all of them is just plain silly. The President, upon starting his term, probably goes into a room with the executive board saying, "I've got these great ideas, gee-golly." They respond, "That's great, Mr. (or Mrs., I wont be sexist) President. But here's the reality." The President responds sadly, "Fishsticks."

But with your infallible knowledge and insight on politics and the government, I thought you knew there were a few taxes that got taken out of income regardless of how much you make. It differs from state to state, but the principal is the same. Income Tax is a fact of life, same with the IRS. Don't act like you're God and know everything, when you yourself is simply ignorant on the basic things like a pay stub.

Fun Fact: There's also an Unemployment Tax on your Unemployment Check.

Fun Fact #2: Everything is taxable. Imperial England in London tried to tax the air, due to bad industrial air quality.

I'm not saying I know everything. I don't. Far from. Do I need to say it any other way so you understand the words that I'm typing?

EVERYBODY is ignorant to some degree. It doesn't matter how much you know by the books or by the street. So please don't verbally attack somebody by calling them ignorant (euphemistically naive/stupid), and act all but hurt offended by "oh my gosh, not everybody agrees with you." This is a forum. Everybody is entitled to their belief, whether you like it or not. SO, if you're going to try to call somebody anything, and treat them like they're stupid, because they don't agree with you...

...you're no better than Fox.

And I'm sorry for hitting below the belt by saying that.
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  #22  
Old 12-16-2011, 01:18 PM
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Default Re: Opinions on the President?

Excuse me, but there is a certain point in which the accusation of ignorance is correct. If the person knows absolutely nothing of what said person is talking about, or rejects reality, it is ignorance. No one is accusing the person to be totally ignorant, but only ignorant in that subject.

Just like you can be totally ignorant towards philosophy and ethics, but be brilliantly smart in the mathematics. Calling the person ignorant in said area is valid.
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  #23  
Old 12-16-2011, 01:28 PM
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Default Re: Opinions on the President?

yes, he is awesome, i also love his tie, red with gold spots. i heard he knows one word in norwegian: skal, it means happy.
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  #24  
Old 12-16-2011, 11:32 PM
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Default Re: Opinions on the President?

Quote:
PE2K Voices - Excuse me, but there is a certain point in which the accusation of ignorance is correct. If the person knows absolutely nothing of what said person is talking about, or rejects reality, it is ignorance. No one is accusing the person to be totally ignorant, but only ignorant in that subject.

Just like you can be totally ignorant towards philosophy and ethics, but be brilliantly smart in the mathematics. Calling the person ignorant in said area is valid.
I'm not brilliantly smart in mathematics. I just thought certain things were common knowledge. Like Income Tax... When you get paid through a taxable check, you never get what you worked for. May it be McDonalds, Kroger, Toys R Us, whatever. Even if it's only a $25 check. You still get like three or five bucks taken out for taxes. And the only actual calculating that I did for that post was with my own personal income.

But if you're going to say I'm "totally ignorant" with ethics and philosophy, you're wrong. I've probably read just as much dry material as you have. Everything from Plato, Dante, Satre, Camus, Adams, Marx, Trotsky, Aquinas, Bible, Koran, the Tanakh, Einstein, Telsa, Clovers and Blue Moons, Hearts and a--nvm. I almost minored in Philosophy in college. But soon realized I could learn and apply just as much on my own by talking with actual Philosophy majors and Religious Majors in my area.

I wouldn't feel like I could make a good political argument if I didn't feel as if something wasn't completely fair in certain fields.

But on with ethics--I'll play the role of Socrates and throw out a hypothetical argument:

Is it ethical for Politicians to make outrageous promises they can't keep?

No.

Do outrageous promises get numbers at the election booth?

Yes.


No politician is innocent. Not to say they don't try their best all the time. I'm pretty sure if Obama felt like an idea was, at it's root, bad. He'd try at all cost to avoid that option (unless there were no other options, then he's in the chair of doing bad things because he has to). But as a politician, if you knew your Plato, is arguable.

My actual argument was--

Obama's not awesome. But he can be heck of a lot worse. Will I vote for him in 2012? I don't know, we'll see what happens in the caucus. Or if anybody better steps up. We'll see. IT DEPENDS. There are many factors to take in, not just promises and speeches.

My other thing is--A lot of people consider Obama as one of the greats. He isn't one of the greats. But I will congratulate him any day for being the first non-white president. I'm not white myself, I think that's cool. I think it's honestly great! (Though, it was bound to happen. Society has definitely stepped up since the 60's in terms of racism) Other than that--...he's mediocre.

Somethings I applaud, other times I raise my eyebrow and say, "WTF, mate."

Quote:
Lusankya - I've got news for you: If you're at the income level where the tobacco tax is a large enough percentage of your income that it can make you go broke, then you are poor enough that you don't pay any income tax anyways, and in fact the government probably pays you more than you pay it.
I'd also like to point out that this also isn't mathematical brilliance...

Everybody pays income tax, regardless of income level. I thought that was common knowledge. Income Tax doesn't work like Monopoly, Monopoly was created prior to Social Security and way before Medicare. Income's been taxed since at least 1937 with the start of Social Security and what have ya for Medicare, etc. and so forth.

Quote:
Oh, and guess why Medicare has to be cut? It's because the US now has some of the lowest income taxes it has had decades! You are exhibiting the classic fallacy: "I should pay less to the government but the government should pay me more!" It doesn't work that way. Money for Medicare has to come from somewhere. And if you are going to whine about taxes being too high, it is complete hypocrisy for you to complain about cuts to government services when the US is now saddled with the highest debt-to-GDP ratio it has ever had. You can't have it both ways. Either you get low taxes and low services, or you get high taxes and high services. I shouldn't even have to tell you this, it's basic economic sense.
I don't see why your'e trying to "school" me on the basics of Taxes and Economics if you don't understand the simple basics of Income Tax and a paystub. It's called research.

Income taxes are based off how you fill out your W-4 and how many exemptions you allow. So basically (no math required, just experience with the system): If I allow my checks to be taxed higher than usual, either I'll get a refund or come out even (not taking into account other taxes that aren't income based).

Quote:
PE2K Voices - Obama sucks? Is that because he is open to same-sex marriage? Hay now, let us keep this PG rated. ;)
Yes, let's keep this PG rated. Never in MY personal argument have I said same sex marriages were bad. Marriage is a religious matter, and there's a thing (I'm pretty sure we're all aware of it) called Freedom of Religion.

My political opinion is, if there's one church or mosque or wtvr that disagrees with Same Sex Marriage, the government shouldn't force them to conduct them. But if a church or whatever believes same-sex marriage is okay, then let them do it! It's a religious right!

You're just making the assumption that I believe or disagree with certain things based off of prejudices about certain groups of people. Don't do that. That's unethical.

* * * * *

Anyways--I'd like to know, only because it might allow myself to grow mentally (because I'm so "ethically ignorant"). Even though--I think Medicare is vital, Welfare (if not abused) helps people, and most importantly: Consistency is an important trait for any politician.

Why am I so ethically ignorant to philosophy and ethics?

Unless you believe in social relativity--cause in that case, we're both right! Yay!

If you're so philosophically inclined, let me test you:

Who was (or were) the major Philosopher(s) to argue social relativism?

and...

Who literally wrote the original book of Ethics? (lol, is that ethical to base all ethics off of one persons opinions? not the question, just a fun question.)
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  #25  
Old 12-17-2011, 07:26 AM
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Default Re: Opinions on the President?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlark View Post
I'm not brilliantly smart in mathematics. I just thought certain things were common knowledge. Like Income Tax... When you get paid through a taxable check, you never get what you worked for. May it be McDonalds, Kroger, Toys R Us, whatever. Even if it's only a $25 check. You still get like three or five bucks taken out for taxes. And the only actual calculating that I did for that post was with my own personal income.

But if you're going to say I'm "totally ignorant" with ethics and philosophy, you're wrong. I've probably read just as much dry material as you have. Everything from Plato, Dante, Satre, Camus, Adams, Marx, Trotsky, Aquinas, Bible, Koran, the Tanakh, Einstein, Telsa, Clovers and Blue Moons, Hearts and a--nvm. I almost minored in Philosophy in college. But soon realized I could learn and apply just as much on my own by talking with actual Philosophy majors and Religious Majors in my area.

I wouldn't feel like I could make a good political argument if I didn't feel as if something wasn't completely fair in certain fields.

But on with ethics--I'll play the role of Socrates and throw out a hypothetical argument:

Is it ethical for Politicians to make outrageous promises they can't keep?

No.

Do outrageous promises get numbers at the election booth?

Yes.



No politician is innocent. Not to say they don't try their best all the time. I'm pretty sure if Obama felt like an idea was, at it's root, bad. He'd try at all cost to avoid that option (unless there were no other options, then he's in the chair of doing bad things because he has to). But as a politician, if you knew your Plato, is arguable.
That statement was not directed to you. It was a figurative example.

One thing you have to realize is this: All politicians make promises they will never keep. Being a politician has never been about helping the people, rather about helping themselves and their egotistical power hunger. There are a few, like Obama, that can at least keep things together while feeding that hunger. If you ever thought that politician's purpose was to do what the people want, you are dead wrong. It is the same in every other country on Earth.
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Old 12-17-2011, 06:39 PM
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Default Re: Opinions on the President?

sorry, computer's running slow, I double posted...

Last edited by Redlark; 12-17-2011 at 06:56 PM. Reason: Double post flub
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  #27  
Old 12-17-2011, 06:50 PM
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Default Re: Opinions on the President?

Since everybody's in the quote game, I thought I'd take it up a notch and put my entire post in a quote:

Quote:
Holy Monkey On a Two by Four! Since you're so Philosophically inclined, I'm sorry I have to use this argument, but now I'm cross referencing myself with a quote that quotes you, but essentially quoting myself lol, (I can make that more confusing if you want. (Quote, Unquote) What did Aristotle call this argument/paradox? I already know the answer, do you?)

Quote:
Redlark -
Quote:
PE2K Voices - Obama sucks? Is that because he is open to same-sex marriage? Hay now, let us keep this PG rated. ;)
Yes, let's keep this PG rated. Never in MY personal argument have I said same sex marriages were bad. Marriage is a religious matter, and there's a thing (I'm pretty sure we're all aware of it) called Freedom of Religion.

My political opinion is, if there's one church or mosque or wtvr that disagrees with Same Sex Marriage, the government shouldn't force them to conduct them. But if a church or whatever believes same-sex marriage is okay, then let them do it! It's a religious right!

You're just making the assumption that I believe or disagree with certain things based off of prejudices about certain groups of people. Don't do that. That's unethical.
NOBODY was arguing Same Sex Marriage!! Don't make judgement calls, dude!

Also...

Quote:
Quote:
Redlark - I'm not brilliantly smart in mathematics. I just thought certain things were common knowledge. Like Income Tax... When you get paid through a taxable check, you never get what you worked for. May it be McDonalds, Kroger, Toys R Us, whatever. Even if it's only a $25 check. You still get like three or five bucks taken out for taxes. And the only actual calculating that I did for that post was with my own personal income.

But if you're going to say I'm "totally ignorant" with ethics and philosophy, you're wrong. I've probably read just as much dry material as you have. Everything from Plato, Dante, Satre, Camus, Adams, Marx, Trotsky, Aquinas, Bible, Koran, the Tanakh, Einstein, Telsa, Clovers and Blue Moons, Hearts and a--nvm. I almost minored in Philosophy in college. But soon realized I could learn and apply just as much on my own by talking with actual Philosophy majors and Religious Majors in my area.

I wouldn't feel like I could make a good political argument if I didn't feel as if something wasn't completely fair in certain fields.

But on with ethics--I'll play the role of Socrates and throw out a hypothetical argument:

Is it ethical for Politicians to make outrageous promises they can't keep?

No.

Do outrageous promises get numbers at the election booth?

Yes.

No politician is innocent. Not to say they don't try their best all the time. I'm pretty sure if Obama felt like an idea was, at it's root, bad. He'd try at all cost to avoid that option (unless there were no other options, then he's in the chair of doing bad things because he has to). But as a politician, if you knew your Plato, is arguable.
PE2K Voices -That statement was not directed to you. It was a figurative example.

One thing you have to realize is this: All politicians make promises they will never keep. Being a politician has never been about helping the people, rather about helping themselves and their egotistical power hunger. There are a few, like Obama, that can at least keep things together while feeding that hunger. If you ever thought that politician's purpose was to do what the people want, you are dead wrong. It is the same in every other country on Earth.
I know... I believe that's what I'm saying? Do you know what I am saying? Yes, I believe I do know what I am saying. Was it directed to Moonkit? Even though it's a quoted response to me? Either way...Then I believe (Quoting entire thread NOW):

http://www.pokemonelite2000.com/foru...d.php?t=116897

Because Moonkit and I are the only blokes on this thread that haven't paid homage to the alter of Mr. Obama. He's our president! Oh well! There's been over 40 of them, right? Do I think They're all great? No. Few are. George Washington? An okay guy in a situation that forced him to do big important things, and he followed through. Samuel Adams... decent beer... not really... but not even a president, so he's exempt from my statement.

Either way--quoting myself:

Quote:
Redlark - My argument is credibility.

Say one thing--
--do another.

Nothing more. Which doesn't make anybody great. Mediocre at best.

I'm also saying, politicians are like metals. They'll always be metals. By-products of metals. But in the end. Break them down--they're still metal.

I'm not saying Obama's horrible. I'm just saying he isn't everything in the world. No politician really is. I make cracks about every single one, sort of like Jon Stewart or Colbert (just not as funny). I'm very cynical, I'm sorry if my existence offends you. Example: Bill Clinton=Slick Willy and George W. Bush=Bush is a Snatch, both play on words, I make lame jokes, I'm sorry...
But I know, so going back to what you said in an earlier post, but I quoted from this post from that:

Quote:
PE2K Voices - One thing you have to realize is this: All politicians make promises they will never keep. Being a politician has never been about helping the people, rather about helping themselves and their egotistical power hunger. There are a few, like Obama, that can at least keep things together while feeding that hunger. If you ever thought that politician's purpose was to do what the people want, you are dead wrong. It is the same in every other country on Earth.
Is a little hypocritical for somebody to agree with the answer:

Quote:
Lusankya - Should he be elected again? Damn straight.

PE2K Voices - That... You have taken the words out of my mouth.
Which also...

Quote:
PE2K Voices - That statement was not directed to you. It was a figurative example.
Was replied after I explained the basics and numbers of our tax system. That's a debate statement mislead. But some how I am ignorant also in Lusankya's eyes because I don't agree that Obama's a good president.

Which brings us full circle to my argument of consistency. Which is a good ethical trait for anybody. Sometimes hard to achieve obviously, but still a good trait to try to adhere by.

Obama doesn't deserve our votes.
He should earn our votes.

Sort of what you just said, and what I said in prior posts:

Politicians are politicians. But now I'll add, since you didn't get the point of what I was saying: You can't trust them 100%. They're people we vote into a power position that we don't know personally. Unless you get txt messages from Obama saying, "I'm Awesome!" There's no way a regular citizen can fully trust any politician, just trust that they follow their platform. (Twitter doesn't count)

Quote:
Quote:
Redlark - But I got a personal question, why are you so trigger happy to bad mouth Moonkit?
Lusankya - Because the only thing I despise more than blatant ignorance is ignorance of one's own ignorance. The least anyone can do is at least acknowledge the fact that they are ignorant and not go around spouting opinions based on hilariously wrong facts that a simple Google search proves wrong 2 minutes. Not that I myself am immune to thinking that I know more than I do, but at least I usually have the decency to check up on my "facts" before I post them.

I don't know the age of 99% of the posters on this forum, so I treat everyone in Discussion as though they were logical adults that are informed on the topic they are discussing.
This was the other thing. Click on the link above and try to find Lusankya's thoughts on how Income tax and the tax system runs. Found it? Yeah... there's no hard fact or quote, just personal opinion based off of ideal and theory. Don't act all up in another brotha's face if you don't got the cred! "You be 'illin!"

...
...yeah...I just quoted Run DMC. I can also Google up the federal websites and pull actual numbers from their public reports, because we all carry the right as citizens to. I haven't once used Wikipedia to fact check. I've been going to the SSA website, News Sites, and Federal Government Sites to back my crap and numbers up. EVERY SINGLE TIME.

I'm not posting all my opinions. I'm mostly posting fact.

But here's my opinion, quoting myself from earlier this post:

Quote:
Redlark -
Obama doesn't deserve our votes.
He should earn our votes.
Which I believe, he hasn't fully earned my vote.

So get off Moonkit's and My back! I'm sorry we don't agree with you, Fox!

Here's a question (not like you answer any of my questions anyway):

Give me 10 awesome reasons why Obama should be voted back into office, based off fact.
IF you two AGAIN miss the satire in my comments, meet my ironic sarcasm. You're pathetically awesome! It's not satire on comments or the president anymore, it's satire on you. Shabam

Last edited by Redlark; 12-17-2011 at 07:10 PM. Reason: XD I think I got myself confused with so many quotes and cuts and paste lol. Sorry for the confusion I may have caused.
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  #28  
Old 12-18-2011, 12:13 AM
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Default Re: Opinions on the President?

You had better get your pathetic rage to simmer down, or I will call the ban hammer down on you.

Note the emoticon at the end? Herp, derp.

First of all, the ability to push buttons on a calculator can be done by a Chimpanzee. I don't care whether or not you did it or not. As I said, it was a figurative example.

Secondly, how is it hypocritical? If you read the statement thoroughly, you'd realize I said he is the best choice, even in that statement.

Learn to read, calm down, or go home.

We are accusing Moonkit's posts of ignorance because they are.

The only reason I need is the other presidential candidates.
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  #29  
Old 12-18-2011, 01:33 AM
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Default Re: Opinions on the President?

Go ahead, ban me then. Scary, scary. lol
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  #30  
Old 12-18-2011, 04:24 AM
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Default Re: Opinions on the President?

I didn't start the flame war.

http://www.collegehumor.com/video/39...-the-flame-war

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