Member List
Calendar
F.A.Q.
Search
Log Out
Pokemon Forum - Pokemon Elite 2000  
 

Go Back   Pokemon Forum - Pokemon Elite 2000 » Other Boards » Discussion

Discussion This is for discussion about current events (news), issues, politics, and any other topics of serious discussion. For more casual talk, go to the Other Chat board. Proper sentences, spelling, and grammar is especially strict in this board.


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 05-31-2011, 12:36 AM
Kenny_C.002's Avatar
Kenny_C.002 Offline
/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hina <3
Posts: 12,268
Send a message via AIM to Kenny_C.002
Default High School Student ostracized for stopping Grad prayer

Source

Well he didn't stop the grad prayer as they went ahead with it anyway, but you get the idea. btw, they did not do Buddhist, Muslim, Catholic, Jewish, etc. prayers. Just Christian.

I find this interesting that a high school kid was actually able to use the proper methods to stop something that is legally unconstitutional, as a governmental body (the public school) is supposed to be nonreligious. I should clarify that this doesn't mean the individuals within the governmental body can't be religious, but rather that a governmental institution should remain having the separation between church and state. Hence why a school-sponsored prayer is unconstitutional.

I'm not actually sure how I feel about this. I can't really say what the kid did was objectively wrong, and certainly the backlash he's had from the community is hideous. He did something that he probably knows to have some rather negative consequences, but having his parents disown him? Seriously there's a line that should never be crossed for something this trivial. I guess it's unfortunate that I understand psychology perhaps a little too well: conformity towards mediocrity is the key to success in places like the Bible belt. Hence why I'll never live in those places. I'd just be ostracized for being "not Christian".

Note that I'm not ragging on Christianity. This happens everywhere. Muslims and Hindus have been at this for ages, for example. I've seen relationships broken because of something like religion. Heck, even Buddhists are like that. Falong Quong and Chinese Muslims are heavily ostracized in China. What I'm saying is not that I'm targeting a specific religion, but rather how stupid it is for any religion to do such a thing. I'd find tolerance to be simply a much better idea. I don't care what you do, just don't involve me and the government.

Interestingly enough, I wonder who leaked the information in the first place? This is a serious breach of confidentiality that I expect from professionals in a school.

I'd also like to address a little bit about medicine and religion: as medical professionals, we are supposed to be culturally competent and patient-oriented. Interestingly enough, one of the key aspects of medicine is to actually follow through with certain religious beliefs and principles that the patient has in order to provide the best care. Despite me being Buddhist, if a 70 year old lady asks me to pray with her the night before her surgery so she'd feel better. Guess what, I'm there doing a ritual I don't believe in. No harm done. If an old man wants me to carry the super disgusting charm made of 15 different types of mold while I operate on him? Guess what, it's in a plastic bag, sterilized (on the outside), and carried by me in the operating theatre. The difference between my particular subject and the high school student is a matter of orientation: I'm patient-oriented while that case is governmental body-oriented. Hence this is why I am stating things differently in the two matters. Personal level =/= governmental level

Last edited by Kenny_C.002; 05-31-2011 at 12:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-31-2011, 01:00 AM
Simmi's Avatar
Simmi Offline
PE2K Website Staff
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,239
Send a message via AIM to Simmi Send a message via MSN to Simmi
Default Re: High School Student ostracized for stopping Grad prayer

That is just ridiculous, If they wanna have a Christian prayer sponsored by the government then at least they should have the decency to have a government sponsored prayers for ALL the other religions.

It's people like that whom I can't seam to understand, their arguments and comments are a double edge sword. Everything they say in the defense of this Christin prayer is also building up a strong case for why prayers from other religions should be said at that graduation. And as long as they stick by their argument they are sticking by that the other religions should have been featured in that graduation as well. So what they did was discrimination, both towards Damon and other religions. Personally I think Damon should have contacted the ACLU right away.

As for the medicine point. What your describing Kenny is called tolerance. Something that these people seam to be seriously lacking.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-31-2011, 01:12 AM
Kenny_C.002's Avatar
Kenny_C.002 Offline
/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hina <3
Posts: 12,268
Send a message via AIM to Kenny_C.002
Default Re: High School Student ostracized for stopping Grad prayer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi View Post
That is just ridiculous, If they wanna have a Christian prayer sponsored by the government then at least they should have the decency to have a government sponsored prayers for ALL the other religions.

It's people like that whom I can't seam to understand, their arguments and comments are a double edge sword. Everything they say in the defense of this Christin prayer is also building up a strong case for why prayers from other religions should be said at that graduation. And as long as they stick by their argument they are sticking by that the other religions should have been featured in that graduation as well. So what they did was discrimination, both towards Damon and other religions. Personally I think Damon should have contacted the ACLU right away.
Agreed. They missed Buddhist/Shinto/Wiccan/Flying Spaghetti Monster/Muslim/Hindu/Catholic/Jewish/Taoist/Falong Quong/Madokaism/Haruhiism/etc. prayers. :(

The ACLU would have handled this confidentially and the boy would have been better off, possibly. Then again, you sort of don't expect the people whom you trust (the principal and the school body) to do something like ostracize you. Psychology obviously states otherwise. In the words of Skinner, "Society attacks early, when the individual is helpless."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi View Post
As for the medicine point. What your describing Kenny is called tolerance. Something that these people seam to be seriously lacking.
It isn't tolerance. Tolerance is me accepting that you can do w/e you want, but I don't want to be involved. Medicine moves us further to a new point of acceptance. I do, however, agree that those people lack either.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-31-2011, 01:28 AM
Simmi's Avatar
Simmi Offline
PE2K Website Staff
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,239
Send a message via AIM to Simmi Send a message via MSN to Simmi
Default Re: High School Student ostracized for stopping Grad prayer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny_C.002 View Post
Agreed. They missed Buddhist/Shinto/Wiccan/Flying Spaghetti Monster/Muslim/Hindu/Catholic/Jewish/Taoist/Falong Quong/Madokaism/Haruhiism/etc. prayers. :(

The ACLU would have handled this confidentially and the boy would have been better off, possibly. Then again, you sort of don't expect the people whom you trust (the principal and the school body) to do something like ostracize you. Psychology obviously states otherwise. In the words of Skinner, "Society attacks early, when the individual is helpless."



It isn't tolerance. Tolerance is me accepting that you can do w/e you want, but I don't want to be involved. Medicine moves us further to a new point of acceptance. I do, however, agree that those people lack either.
You missed cookie monster! O.O

It would be rather interesting find out, like you said, who breached the boys confidentiality, cause that person needs to take a deep look at themselves and what the consequences of their actions has caused, I bet it was just some gossip over the water cooler, but non the less that person is at fault for all of the bullying Damon's had to endure at the hands of these Uber Christian's, and seriously, these people are so immature, I mean look at the video from the graduation, as immature as a kindergarten children, and I bet god is up there approving of their actions /Not/.


To be honest if everyone could be like you described, then there probably would be no wars. I mean take a look at the Eastern countries, they could learn a lot from medicine.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-31-2011, 04:41 PM
Blood Red Lucario's Avatar
Blood Red Lucario Offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Aboard Starship Enterprise
Posts: 473
Send a message via AIM to Blood Red Lucario Send a message via Yahoo to Blood Red Lucario
Default Re: High School Student ostracized for stopping Grad prayer

Hmm while I do see why people aren't in favor of a Christian prayer when their religion wasn't recognized isn't the prayer just for the aesthetic in the first place? A wish of good fortune and safety? As the only Buddhist in my school(even though its a Christian school there are a lot of different religions) I've learned to differentiate between a religious prayer and just a prayer simply for the aesthetic.

Why should it matter when its all in good will anyway? I understand it was a government sponsored prayer but possibly it was just a shot gun attempt at getting the point across I figure most of those students are Christian which pretty much should be why they decided to use a Christian prayer other than a Flying Spaghetti Monster sacrifice of three kittens in order to be showered in good fortune most people in and out the religion should get the point.

Then again I can understand where they are coming from to a small degree but the severity of being ostracized for something that ultimately didn't effect them (negatively at least) should just never have happened.

Kenny I admire your actions if only the rest of the world had that kind of common sense.
__________________

Absol Hatches: 27 Level 100: 312

All credit goes to Knightblazer
URPG
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-31-2011, 04:51 PM
Teddiursa of the Sky's Avatar
Teddiursa of the Sky Offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Terseland.
Posts: 3,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Teddiursa of the Sky
Default Re: High School Student ostracized for stopping Grad prayer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simmi View Post
That is just ridiculous, If they wanna have a Christian prayer sponsored by the government then at least they should have the decency to have a government sponsored prayers for ALL the other religions.

It's people like that whom I can't seam to understand, their arguments and comments are a double edge sword. Everything they say in the defense of this Christin prayer is also building up a strong case for why prayers from other religions should be said at that graduation. And as long as they stick by their argument they are sticking by that the other religions should have been featured in that graduation as well. So what they did was discrimination, both towards Damon and other religions. Personally I think Damon should have contacted the ACLU right away.

As for the medicine point. What your describing Kenny is called tolerance. Something that these people seam (sEEm, kid, sEEm) to be seriously lacking.
Well, I am pretty sure that if any other religious person actually gave a crap, they'd have said something about it? I mean, if they really did care, wouldn't they have stopped saying them or, more probably, contacted the administration before they actually said it to make sure it was not said or that other prayers would be said too?

I do, however, think the family acted extremely rash. I mean, what kind of ignorance and intolerance does it take to do such a thing?

Read the book Infidel if you want to learn about religious disowning and such. Very good book, and it is written by an escaped female Muslim.
__________________
Latest Test/Work in Production:
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-20-2011, 12:54 PM
Orthar's Avatar
Orthar Offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Away from Crusties.
Posts: 5,506
Send a message via AIM to Orthar Send a message via MSN to Orthar Send a message via Skype™ to Orthar
Default Re: High School Student ostracized for stopping Grad prayer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blood Red Lucario View Post
Hmm while I do see why people aren't in favor of a Christian prayer when their religion wasn't recognized isn't the prayer just for the aesthetic in the first place? A wish of good fortune and safety? As the only Buddhist in my school(even though its a Christian school there are a lot of different religions) I've learned to differentiate between a religious prayer and just a prayer simply for the aesthetic.
Regardless of whether or not it was for aesthetic reasons, which it wasn't (the school is located in the deep south), public schools are forbid by the Constitution and previous Supreme Court rulings that they cannot promote any religion. Certainly, a prayer would be promotion.

Just because the majority of the graduating class were Christian does not give them the power to outright break the Constitution and expect no backlash. Eventually even the administrators told the students not to pray, because the backlash from the ACLU was going to be massive. The students did it anyway.

This poison of religion has skewed not only their common sense, but also their understanding of American Government.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-21-2011, 04:07 AM
Kenny_C.002's Avatar
Kenny_C.002 Offline
/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hina <3
Posts: 12,268
Send a message via AIM to Kenny_C.002
Default Re: High School Student ostracized for stopping Grad prayer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orthar View Post
Regardless of whether or not it was for aesthetic reasons, which it wasn't (the school is located in the deep south), public schools are forbid by the Constitution and previous Supreme Court rulings that they cannot promote any religion. Certainly, a prayer would be promotion.

Just because the majority of the graduating class were Christian does not give them the power to outright break the Constitution and expect no backlash. Eventually even the administrators told the students not to pray, because the backlash from the ACLU was going to be massive. The students did it anyway.

This poison of religion has skewed not only their common sense, but also their understanding of American Government.
There's also the idea of mob mentality as well, considering that more often than not having a group of people believing in the same thing tend to make stupidity between all of the people in that group magnify.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-12-2011, 02:08 PM
Skeez's Avatar
Skeez Offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Everywhere
Posts: 73
Default Re: High School Student ostracized for stopping Grad prayer

I don't think anyone understands how angry I just got at reading the sourced article in OP's post. I absolutely hate it how Christian's do this; the kid was just standing up for himself and his beliefs! There's no need to treat him like he is 'Satan', as many of them are doing... Absolutely disgusting behavior.

If I were that kid, I'd be seriously pissed off.
__________________
URPGRenatus: The Rebirth
'i am nothing, nothing, nothing but a dreamer'
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-12-2011, 07:34 PM
Lusankya's Avatar
Lusankya Offline
Deus ex Crucio
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,687
Default Re: High School Student ostracized for stopping Grad prayer

Not surprised that it's Louisiana. Sad to see that any part of the country contains such narrow-minded dogma, though. The article makes a very good point about the panicked hostility entrenched religion has to getting its position threatened. It's disheartening to realize that acts like these will go unpunished even though they are in flagrant violation of the unambiguous wording of the Constitution.
__________________

Art Gallery
Dali: "I know what the picture should be ... We take a duck and put some dynamite in its derriere. When the duck explodes, I jump and you take the picture."
Halsman: "Don't forget that we are in America. We will be put in prison if we start exploding ducks."
Dali: "You're right. Let's take some cats and splash them with water."
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-12-2011, 08:08 PM
Teddiursa of the Sky's Avatar
Teddiursa of the Sky Offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Terseland.
Posts: 3,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Teddiursa of the Sky
Default Re: High School Student ostracized for stopping Grad prayer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skeez View Post
I don't think anyone understands how angry I just got at reading the sourced article in OP's post. I absolutely hate it how Christian's do this; the kid was just standing up for himself and his beliefs! There's no need to treat him like he is 'Satan', as many of them are doing... Absolutely disgusting behavior.

If I were that kid, I'd be seriously pissed off.
It is not just Christianity, Skeez. It is literally every religion that feels challenged.
__________________
Latest Test/Work in Production:
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-12-2011, 08:51 PM
Lusankya's Avatar
Lusankya Offline
Deus ex Crucio
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,687
Default Re: High School Student ostracized for stopping Grad prayer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pe2k Voices View Post
It is not just Christianity, Skeez. It is literally every religion that feels challenged.
It's nothing specific to religion. Any entrenched ideology that preaches its own supremacy has the same response to being threatened. It's absurd to claim the moral superiority of any ideology when it comes to these matters because as long as people are involved their response will be the same.
__________________

Art Gallery
Dali: "I know what the picture should be ... We take a duck and put some dynamite in its derriere. When the duck explodes, I jump and you take the picture."
Halsman: "Don't forget that we are in America. We will be put in prison if we start exploding ducks."
Dali: "You're right. Let's take some cats and splash them with water."
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-12-2011, 08:59 PM
Teddiursa of the Sky's Avatar
Teddiursa of the Sky Offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Terseland.
Posts: 3,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Teddiursa of the Sky
Default Re: High School Student ostracized for stopping Grad prayer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusankya View Post
It's nothing specific to religion.
I know that, but since we are speaking of religions, and Skeez made a point to simply mention Christians, I mentioned every religion. -.-
__________________
Latest Test/Work in Production:
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-17-2011, 11:06 PM
Mr420's Avatar
Mr420 Offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Battle Subway, Isshu
Posts: 3,912
Send a message via Yahoo to Mr420
Default Re: High School Student ostracized for stopping Grad prayer

religion and school should be kept seperate like water and a bowl of cerial..
one just doesnt do it..

tho we all know some christians and others(not everyone ...i know this) like to home school thier young to keep them as i call it force feed so they dont grow up with tainted perception of what and how things should be..

when one actually gets to step into the REAL world.. boy is that a loopy roller coaster
__________________

Pokérus Empire
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-17-2011, 11:31 PM
Teddiursa of the Sky's Avatar
Teddiursa of the Sky Offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Terseland.
Posts: 3,068
Send a message via Skype™ to Teddiursa of the Sky
Default Re: High School Student ostracized for stopping Grad prayer

That's one of the reasons Germany does not allow homeschooling. ;)
__________________
Latest Test/Work in Production:
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Style Design: AlienSector.com