Member List
Calendar
F.A.Q.
Search
Log Out
Pokemon Forum - Pokemon Elite 2000  
 

Go Back   Pokemon Forum - Pokemon Elite 2000 » Other Boards » Discussion

Discussion This is for discussion about current events (news), issues, politics, and any other topics of serious discussion. For more casual talk, go to the Other Chat board. Proper sentences, spelling, and grammar is especially strict in this board.


Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #61  
Old 07-23-2011, 09:34 PM
TheEvilDookie's Avatar
TheEvilDookie Offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 6,983
Send a message via AIM to TheEvilDookie Send a message via MSN to TheEvilDookie Send a message via Skype™ to TheEvilDookie
Default Re: [WAR X] Debate Section

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusankya View Post
Yes, accurate information--for California. And only California. Which, as the article itself stated, is the epitome of a terrible, inefficient judicial system. California's costs are not representative of the use of the death penalty in other states or other countries. The article you linked makes no mention of any of the facets I mentioned.
It doesn't need to mention anything you cited because your information was outdated.

Quote:
An unprovable statement. You cannot prove that this is even relevant with modern forensics. While it is certainly theoretically possible for someone innocent to executed, the likelihood of such a thing occurring cannot be measured. Past statistics for convicts later being exonerated are not relevant because of the vast advances in forensic techniques that have occurred.
That's beside the point. It's happened before and the chances of it happening again still exist. You can't escape that fact.

Quote:
Irrelevant. The health care system in Canada is the health care system in Canada. You can not improve it by being middle-class. Furthermore, your argument in no way makes the death penalty less appealing. If jail is theoretically an improvement for some murderers, then it only makes sense to execute them.
The point I was making was that for those who are impoverished and can't afford health care, which is a large percentage of people, have a higher chance of committing a crime that sends them to prison. And it's there that they receive the health care that they could never afford before.

Quote:
Also entirely irrelevant. Simply because someone people oppose a certain action in no way should influence whether that action should be taken or not.
Don't go calling my argument irrelevant when you were the one who brought it up in the first place o_o
Quote:
The first one I have already responded to. The rest are a matter of opinion and in no way can be objectively proven. As for clogging the court system, that is the problem of the court system, not the death penalty.
You've proven nothing against the financial aspects. Your source if from 1997. It is outdated. Also, you can't explain that killing somebody isn't a cruel and/or unusual punishment and that it doesn't clog the court system. I mean if you want be super technical, then yeah sure, they're opinions, but those opinions are ones that are accepted by most people.

Quote:
Abolishing the death penalty would honestly make no difference whatsoever. Europeans have far more pressing reasons for their image of America.
That doesn't mean that they wouldn't know about it. They have world news too.

Quote:
Once again, a matter of opinion on whether these even matter or not.
Once again, opinions that most people agree with.

Quote:
Once again, a fault of the court system, not the death penalty.
The court system is related to the legislative branch which determines whether to invoke the death penalty or not therefore it is partially their fault.

Quote:
wut

How is this relevant in any way whatsoever?
Because just because you kill the criminal doesn't mean the victim will come back to life. What's there not to get?
__________________


^ Anastasia-R ^
Current VPP: Palkia > Level 100: 6987
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 07-23-2011, 10:10 PM
Lusankya's Avatar
Lusankya Offline
Deus ex Crucio
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,687
Default Re: [WAR X] Debate Section

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEvilDookie View Post
It doesn't need to mention anything you cited because your information was outdated.
It doesn't mean the numbers it dealt with no longer matter. The article you cited only deals with a tiny portion of the relevant data. Without context, the information it provides is meaningless at best, misleading at worst. Even outdated data is better.

Quote:
That's beside the point. It's happened before and the chances of it happening again still exist. You can't escape that fact.
The chances of it happening could be infinitesimally close to zero. Prove that this is relevant.

Quote:
The point I was making was that for those who are impoverished and can't afford health care, which is a large percentage of people, have a higher chance of committing a crime that sends them to prison. And it's there that they receive the health care that they could never afford before.
And this matters to the death penalty not at all.

Quote:
Don't go calling my argument irrelevant when you were the one who brought it up in the first place o_o
Uh, no. It was your argument. I merely responded.

Quote:
You've proven nothing against the financial aspects. Your source if from 1997. It is outdated. Also, you can't explain that killing somebody isn't a cruel and/or unusual punishment and that it doesn't clog the court system. I mean if you want be super technical, then yeah sure, they're opinions, but those opinions are ones that are accepted by most people.
Baseless statement is baseless (not the clogging of the court systems). Prove it.

Quote:
That doesn't mean that they wouldn't know about it. They have world news too.
Knowing isn't the same thing as caring.

Quote:
Once again, opinions that most people agree with.
Prove it.

Quote:
The court system is related to the legislative branch which determines whether to invoke the death penalty or not therefore it is partially their fault.
Yes, and the sky being blue is partially the fault of the ground. Your logic does not hold up. Why is it the fault of the court system what the legislative branch does? Why is it the fault of the legislative branch what the court system does? We are debating about the death penalty, not politics. If you cannot make an argument without appealing to things beyond the scope of this debate, then don't make an argument.

Quote:
Because just because you kill the criminal doesn't mean the victim will come back to life. What's there not to get?
What madness drove you to think that the intent of execution is to bring the victim back? The death penalty punishes. That is all. It fulfills that purpose. This argument is the equivalent of stating that cars should be abolished because they do not teleport you to your destination instantly.
__________________

Art Gallery
Dali: "I know what the picture should be ... We take a duck and put some dynamite in its derriere. When the duck explodes, I jump and you take the picture."
Halsman: "Don't forget that we are in America. We will be put in prison if we start exploding ducks."
Dali: "You're right. Let's take some cats and splash them with water."

Last edited by Lusankya; 07-23-2011 at 10:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 07-24-2011, 12:54 AM
TheEvilDookie's Avatar
TheEvilDookie Offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 6,983
Send a message via AIM to TheEvilDookie Send a message via MSN to TheEvilDookie Send a message via Skype™ to TheEvilDookie
Default Re: [WAR X] Debate Section

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusankya View Post
It doesn't mean the numbers it dealt with no longer matter. The article you cited only deals with a tiny portion of the relevant data. Without context, the information it provides is meaningless at best, misleading at worst. Even outdated data is better.
Msnbc articles have context. And in no situation would somebody trust an outdated source over a current one.

Quote:
The chances of it happening could be infinitesimally close to zero. Prove that this is relevant.
There is a chance of it happening. Relevance proven.

Quote:
And this matters to the death penalty not at all.
It's all related my friend. Poverty > High chance of crime > Chance of receiving death penalty for crime.

Quote:
Uh, no. It was your argument. I merely responded.
Not at all. Iso started by saying "Why not just transform this whole part of the court system" (not his exact words, just being very general), to which I responded that it wouldn't work due to extremist groups. That's when you came in trying to tie in politics with the groups and that topic strayed off in a lone tangent.

Quote:
Baseless statement is baseless (not the clogging of the court systems). Prove it.
Ask yourself, do you think killing a human being isn't cruel or unusual? For what reason it is because of doesn't matter. Just the question without any background information. If you think it's alright just to do it, then we have more problems on the table.

Quote:
Knowing isn't the same thing as caring.
To read about news means you have an emotional reaction which includes the feeling that makes you think to yourself "Hey, that's cool!"

Quote:
Prove it.
Normal people don't enjoy killing and normal people feel sympathy for families who have lost a loved one. Gonna ask me to prove that too?

Quote:
Yes, and the sky being blue is partially the fault of the ground. Your logic does not hold up. Why is it the fault of the court system what the legislative branch does? Why is it the fault of the legislative branch what the court system does? We are debating about the death penalty, not politics. If you cannot make an argument without appealing to things beyond the scope of this debate, then don't make an argument.
I'm not the one sending this off into tangents here. I'm just arguing against what you have to say. And because of this I will continue. Each branch of government has a say on what goes on in the other branches due to the checks and balances and separation of powers. It's all intertwined.

Quote:
What madness drove you to think that the intent of execution is to bring the victim back? The death penalty punishes. That is all. It fulfills that purpose. This argument is the equivalent of stating that cars should be abolished because they do not teleport you to your destination instantly.
You did lol. The initial point from that large list earlier said "[the death penalty] is useless in that it doesn't bring the victim back to life." Then you responded by asking how it was relevant to which I responded with how it was.

---

@ Khaj: I'm sorry if this seems to be going off topic. It's not like there were any intentions of it. I'm just responding to where I've been quoted. o_o
__________________


^ Anastasia-R ^
Current VPP: Palkia > Level 100: 6987
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 07-24-2011, 02:18 AM
Lusankya's Avatar
Lusankya Offline
Deus ex Crucio
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,687
Default Re: [WAR X] Debate Section

Quote:
There is a chance of it happening. Relevance proven.
The chance could be less than the chance of all the particles in the Earth spontaneously disappearing. Do you worry about that?

Quote:
It's all related my friend. Poverty > High chance of crime > Chance of receiving death penalty for crime.
Which, once again, in no way impacts how the death penalty works.

Quote:
Ask yourself, do you think killing a human being isn't cruel or unusual? For what reason it is because of doesn't matter. Just the question without any background information. If you think it's alright just to do it, then we have more problems on the table.
This is not proof.

Quote:
To read about news means you have an emotional reaction which includes the feeling that makes you think to yourself "Hey, that's cool!"
Nor is this relevant.

Quote:
Normal people don't enjoy killing and normal people feel sympathy for families who have lost a loved one. Gonna ask me to prove that too?
This is also not proof.

Quote:
I'm not the one sending this off into tangents here. I'm just arguing against what you have to say. And because of this I will continue. Each branch of government has a say on what goes on in the other branches due to the checks and balances and separation of powers. It's all intertwined.
So, to take your logic to its inevitable conclusion, the BMV should also be shut down because it's a part of the government.

Quote:
You did lol. The initial point from that large list earlier said "[the death penalty] is useless in that it doesn't bring the victim back to life." Then you responded by asking how it was relevant to which I responded with how it was.
And you in no way whatsoever demonstrated its relevance.

I'm going to take a moment out of the debate and say that you have a very strong tendency to make very vague, general statements without a modicum of evidence or even so much as a trifle of objectivity to it. Your arguments are so roundabout and circular and you are so easily led off-track that it is difficult to discern what, if anything, your point is. You do not connect your Point A to your Point B, and even if you do so the connection is tenuous at best. I have repeatedly asked for you to prove your statements, because in your recent posts all you have generated are sporadic opinions and rhetorical questions that have little basis in reality. So please, solidify. It will make your argument stronger and give me something concrete to respond to.
__________________

Art Gallery
Dali: "I know what the picture should be ... We take a duck and put some dynamite in its derriere. When the duck explodes, I jump and you take the picture."
Halsman: "Don't forget that we are in America. We will be put in prison if we start exploding ducks."
Dali: "You're right. Let's take some cats and splash them with water."

Last edited by Lusankya; 07-24-2011 at 02:20 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 07-24-2011, 02:22 AM
TheEvilDookie's Avatar
TheEvilDookie Offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 6,983
Send a message via AIM to TheEvilDookie Send a message via MSN to TheEvilDookie Send a message via Skype™ to TheEvilDookie
Default Re: [WAR X] Debate Section

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusankya View Post
And you in no way whatsoever demonstrated its relevance.
I'll just let you self destruct in your unnecessary harsh words because that's all you seem to know how to do. But one thing I will respond to is that quote ^

Yeah you said the same thing like 5 times, but just find the exact text for my response: I'm not going to prove something of yours that needs proving.
__________________


^ Anastasia-R ^
Current VPP: Palkia > Level 100: 6987

Last edited by TheEvilDookie; 07-24-2011 at 02:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 07-24-2011, 02:55 AM
Lusankya's Avatar
Lusankya Offline
Deus ex Crucio
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,687
Default Re: [WAR X] Debate Section

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEvilDookie View Post
I'll just let you self destruct in your unnecessary harsh words because that's all you seem to know how to do. But one thing I will respond to is that quote ^

Yeah you said the same thing like 5 times, but just find the exact text for my response: I'm not going to prove something of yours that needs proving.
I'm not being harsh. I am stating a fact. You did not demonstrate any kind of relevance. You did not bring forth any kind of proof for any of your statements. I have said nothing important that either has not nor needs to be proven; however, I also cannot respond properly to nebulous, meaningless statements that you cannot even show to matter to the subject at hand. That is wholly your own failure. Once again, I am asking you for to provide evidence, something that you have again and again failed to do. You have not proven that most people think execution is cruel and unusual. Nor have you proven that most people are of the opinion that the feelings of a convict's family, influences on the jury, or sympathy for the perpetrator matter in the dealing of justice. You have not shown any evidence that abolishing the death penalty would affect America's perceived image in any meaningful way. You have no shown why it is a failing that the death penalty, something that is intended to punish a criminal, should bring people back to life. You have also not given a valid reasoning for why the existence of poor people should inhibit use of the death penalty. You have also not demonstrated why an inefficient court system matters to the concept of execution, which is an entity separate from that of bureaucracy. Without any kind of evidence other than your own statements, there is not even a need to construct counterarguments.
__________________

Art Gallery
Dali: "I know what the picture should be ... We take a duck and put some dynamite in its derriere. When the duck explodes, I jump and you take the picture."
Halsman: "Don't forget that we are in America. We will be put in prison if we start exploding ducks."
Dali: "You're right. Let's take some cats and splash them with water."

Last edited by Lusankya; 07-24-2011 at 03:04 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 07-24-2011, 04:41 PM
Lord Fedora's Avatar
Lord Fedora Offline
ASB Official
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Y'all stay off my property!
Posts: 8,469
Send a message via AIM to Lord Fedora
Default Re: [WAR X] Debate Section

Debate over, and guys, I gotta be honest, I was really disappointed with both of you on this one. Between the constant tangents that you took forever to realize you should just drop and the frankly annoying half-line responses about relevancy, I damn near shot myself. Oh, and for future reference, both outdated articles and small, unrepresentative samples are horrible sources that shouldn't be defended when challenged just because you think yours is better than the other guy's. That said, the others didn't post nearly as much or go quite as in-depth as you did, so, begrudgingly:

For: Lusankya earns a point for Team VILE
Against: TheEvilDookie wins a point for Octopus Babies
Team: Octopus Babies wins two points as a team

Topic 5: For many years there have been calls, both within countries and in the international community, for nuclear disarmament, the destruction of nuclear arsenals worldwide. Many view them as too dangerous to allow to exist, while others see disarmament as a dangerous move in and of itself. Discuss.
__________________
URPG/ASB Stats
98% of teens won't stand up for God. Repost this if you think that statistic is the most laughable thing ever.
My new AIM username is GrayFedora12. Do not respond or click on links from any IMs from LordKhajmer.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 07-24-2011, 05:02 PM
Lusankya's Avatar
Lusankya Offline
Deus ex Crucio
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,687
Default Re: [WAR X] Debate Section

I'm not on VILE.
__________________

Art Gallery
Dali: "I know what the picture should be ... We take a duck and put some dynamite in its derriere. When the duck explodes, I jump and you take the picture."
Halsman: "Don't forget that we are in America. We will be put in prison if we start exploding ducks."
Dali: "You're right. Let's take some cats and splash them with water."
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 07-30-2011, 02:11 PM
Lusankya's Avatar
Lusankya Offline
Deus ex Crucio
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,687
Default Re: [WAR X] Debate Section

Armada
Con-Disarmament


Simply put, a nuclear disarmament will only make the world more safe if it is mandatory and universal. If it is not an honest, unanimous decision, and some nations possess nuclear weapons while others do not, then it will only make the world more dangerous as the risks to an aggressor using nuclear in a first strike against an enemy goes down because they know the enemy cannot retaliate. Simply imagine if the United States and NATO disarmed all their nuclear weapons while Russia did not. Russia would have the power to wipe out the entire United States at no threat to itself (other than global ecological side effects) because there would be no United States left to retaliate through conventional warfare. With no way to defend against the use of nuclear weapons except through the threat of nuclear weapons, disarming all nukes is at best foolhardy.

Thus, nuclear disarmament is dependent on all nations agreeing to do it simultaneously, while not hiding anything from the international community. This is realistically impossible. Antagonist nations will never trust each other to disarm. India and Pakistan will never disarm while the other exists, and no one can trust North Korea or Iran to disarm theirs (although Iran does not yet possess nuclear capability, it is obvious that they are after them). Even a formal nuclear abolition could not prevent covert nuclear programs, which is almost certain to occur as it is far too tempting to have nuclear weapons in an other non-nuclear world. The reality is, the nuclear genie is already out of the bottle, and there is no way to put it back in. Nuclear technology cannot be un-invented. Now that they are out there, there is no practical way of getting rid of them.
__________________

Art Gallery
Dali: "I know what the picture should be ... We take a duck and put some dynamite in its derriere. When the duck explodes, I jump and you take the picture."
Halsman: "Don't forget that we are in America. We will be put in prison if we start exploding ducks."
Dali: "You're right. Let's take some cats and splash them with water."
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 07-31-2011, 02:38 AM
Iso's Avatar
Iso Offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 62
Send a message via AIM to Iso
Default Re: [WAR X] Debate Section

Octopus Babies

Everyone should have to get rid of their nuclear weapons, or else the world could be destroyed.
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 07-31-2011, 04:31 AM
TheEvilDookie's Avatar
TheEvilDookie Offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 6,983
Send a message via AIM to TheEvilDookie Send a message via MSN to TheEvilDookie Send a message via Skype™ to TheEvilDookie
Default Re: [WAR X] Debate Section

I think the use of nuclear energy helps the world move further in technological advances and it reduces the waste of fossil fuels.
__________________


^ Anastasia-R ^
Current VPP: Palkia > Level 100: 6987
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 07-31-2011, 04:32 AM
Iso's Avatar
Iso Offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 62
Send a message via AIM to Iso
Default Re: [WAR X] Debate Section

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEvilDookie View Post
I think the use of nuclear energy helps the world move further in technological advances and it reduces the waste of fossil fuels.
Nuclear waste is bad.

Edit: That's weird, I didn't realize I was responding only 1 minute after your post.

Last edited by Iso; 07-31-2011 at 05:40 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 07-31-2011, 04:33 AM
TheEvilDookie's Avatar
TheEvilDookie Offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 6,983
Send a message via AIM to TheEvilDookie Send a message via MSN to TheEvilDookie Send a message via Skype™ to TheEvilDookie
Default Re: [WAR X] Debate Section

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iso View Post
Nuclear waste is bad.
Pollution from industrial factories is bad.
__________________


^ Anastasia-R ^
Current VPP: Palkia > Level 100: 6987
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 08-01-2011, 01:05 AM
Lord Fedora's Avatar
Lord Fedora Offline
ASB Official
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Y'all stay off my property!
Posts: 8,469
Send a message via AIM to Lord Fedora
Default Re: [WAR X] Debate Section

Ooookay, this was a vastly disappointing sputtering end, and I am severely disappoint.

Iso wins a point for Octopus Babies for the For side.
Lusankya wins a point for the Armada for the Against side.
Armada wins two points for team performance, because even though there were two people from Octopus Babies y'all both sucked.
__________________
URPG/ASB Stats
98% of teens won't stand up for God. Repost this if you think that statistic is the most laughable thing ever.
My new AIM username is GrayFedora12. Do not respond or click on links from any IMs from LordKhajmer.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Style Design: AlienSector.com