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  #16  
Old 05-25-2011, 04:24 AM
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Default Re: Historical What-Ifs

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Originally Posted by Lusankya View Post
From what I understand, the Chinese government was facing enormous internal resistance and rebellions (see: Opium Wars, Taiping Rebellion) by the late 1700s, so they may not have been able to conquer Africa in the 1800s in the first place. Earlier than that, I dunno. Maybe they didn't have the technology. I also think that the Americas were by far the more valuable colonization target than Africa, so Europe would still be a major world power.
I don't actually remember why they closed off all explorations yeah, as my historical knowledge during those periods are nonexistent at best. I think it's a decent point to say that Europeans would still have had a decent chance to try to find the route to China and stumble upon and commit biological genocide on the Americans anyway. Then again, it is also possible that China would have searched east past Japan as well, assuming they continued with explorations and the like. In addition there's also the possibility that having the entirety of Africa would obviously have made it possible for merchants from Europe to dodge the Ottoman Empire anyway, making it less likely that the Europeans would have tried to look for that other route as well.

Coming to think of it, this is one of the solutions that would allow the Americans to survive for a longer period of time. No clue if they would still be wiped out by smallpox and the rest of them though.
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  #17  
Old 05-25-2011, 04:39 AM
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Default Re: Historical What-Ifs

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Originally Posted by Kenny_C.002 View Post
I don't actually remember why they closed off all explorations yeah, as my historical knowledge during those periods are nonexistent at best. I think it's a decent point to say that Europeans would still have had a decent chance to try to find the route to China and stumble upon and commit biological genocide on the Americans anyway. Then again, it is also possible that China would have searched east past Japan as well, assuming they continued with explorations and the like. In addition there's also the possibility that having the entirety of Africa would obviously have made it possible for merchants from Europe to dodge the Ottoman Empire anyway, making it less likely that the Europeans would have tried to look for that other route as well.

Coming to think of it, this is one of the solutions that would allow the Americans to survive for a longer period of time. No clue if they would still be wiped out by smallpox and the rest of them though.
I think the discovery of the New World within that time period was inevitable, just moved left and right by half a century or so at most. Trade routes with the east were only one of many different pressures for expansion in Europe. Also, I think during that time period China was culturally very inward-focused, making world conquest an unlikely goal.

All in all, I think the vast majority of major world events were pretty much inevitable given the circumstances surrounding them when you look at a single particular event. Stuff like WWII, WWI, the discovery of the New World, these were all pretty much going to happen in some form or another assuming history as we know it goes up correctly right until then. There's usually really big pressures forcing history to go in a certain direction.

Anyways, here's a what if: What if there had never been a Jesus of Nazareth?
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  #18  
Old 05-25-2011, 06:11 AM
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Default Re: Historical What-Ifs

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What if Gary Anderson hadn't missed that field goal attempt in the 1999 NFC Championship game? The Super Bowl that year would have been a whole lot better, I tell ya hwhat.
If there was a like button good sir, I would totally be pressing it right now.

What if... WHAT IF GUYSH *hic*... *hic*... Pokemon... *hic*... wash nevar invented?
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  #19  
Old 05-26-2011, 06:17 AM
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Default Re: Historical What-Ifs

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Anyways, here's a what if: What if there had never been a Jesus of Nazareth?
This would have possibly changed the way the world developed all together. No Jesus means no Christianity. And at this point we all know that Christianity probably has the most significant impact on history post Roman empire.

Perhaps the U.S. would have been founded under different principles and early exploration would have been held off while Europe continued to be at war with one another. The Crusades would have never happened and Israel would only be valued by mostly Islamic nations. A delay in exploration may have given the East a chance to take the new land for itself.

Or perhaps another religion would have taken it's place as the juggernaut faith throughout the world.
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  #20  
Old 05-26-2011, 05:29 PM
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Default Re: Historical What-Ifs

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This would have possibly changed the way the world developed all together. No Jesus means no Christianity. And at this point we all know that Christianity probably has the most significant impact on history post Roman empire.

Perhaps the U.S. would have been founded under different principles and early exploration would have been held off while Europe continued to be at war with one another. The Crusades would have never happened and Israel would only be valued by mostly Islamic nations. A delay in exploration may have given the East a chance to take the new land for itself.

Or perhaps another religion would have taken it's place as the juggernaut faith throughout the world.
The Europeans would have warred with each other for other reasons. And the real reason the Muslims were attacking into Europe is to spread their empire, meaning the Spaniards would have had to still search for gold anyway, meaning they still would have discovered the South Americas, meaning the Europeans would search for it too.

The Aztects performed religion at the time, and if the Spaniards were still as cruel as they were without their religion, would have still killed them off because they would have thought religion is "barbaric." Most stuff in history would have still happened. Only faster so that we probably would have found a cure for cancer by now.
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  #21  
Old 05-26-2011, 07:25 PM
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Default Re: Historical What-Ifs

what if the world as a whole stopped producing and using Nuclear energy & petro/fossil fuel?
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  #22  
Old 05-26-2011, 07:35 PM
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what if the world as a whole stopped producing and using Nuclear energy & petro/fossil fuel?
We'd all die.
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  #23  
Old 05-27-2011, 03:46 AM
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Default Re: Historical What-Ifs

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what if the world as a whole stopped producing and using Nuclear energy & petro/fossil fuel?
Civilization goes back to the 1600s and 13/14ths of the world's population dies of starvation.
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Last edited by Lusankya; 05-27-2011 at 03:48 AM.
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  #24  
Old 05-27-2011, 07:45 AM
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Default Re: Historical What-Ifs

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Originally Posted by Pe2k Voices View Post
The Europeans would have warred with each other for other reasons. And the real reason the Muslims were attacking into Europe is to spread their empire, meaning the Spaniards would have had to still search for gold anyway, meaning they still would have discovered the South Americas, meaning the Europeans would search for it too.

The Aztects performed religion at the time, and if the Spaniards were still as cruel as they were without their religion, would have still killed them off because they would have thought religion is "barbaric." Most stuff in history would have still happened. Only faster so that we probably would have found a cure for cancer by now.
I could not disagree more.

The Crusades were a war for territory in the Middle East. Namely the Holy Land. There would have never been a back and fourth war between European nations and Islamic empires if it was simply a territory dispute. Since Jerusalem held no real value for most nations at the time it might have just been given up in a diplomatic solution.

Because Europe would have been bogged down by war other nations in the East may have taken a rise to power and set off for exploration before the West did.

As for the your points in the Americas Spain mainly wiped out the Aztec religion because it was basically the "anti-religion" it was seen as Pagan and rejected by the conquistidores. Even if Spain were to have found the Americas first if they are bogged by war what would have allowed them to trade with the East for gun powder? Unless you are saying there would have been a stronger uniting force in Europe to prevent it from being plagued by religion wars after the fall of the Roman empire Europe's technology and exploration would not have been a priority for European countries.

And I forgot to post my what if: What if there was no Renaissance?
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  #25  
Old 05-31-2011, 06:19 PM
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Default Re: Historical What-Ifs

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I could not disagree more.

The Crusades were a war for territory in the Middle East. Namely the Holy Land. There would have never been a back and fourth war between European nations and Islamic empires if it was simply a territory dispute. Since Jerusalem held no real value for most nations at the time it might have just been given up in a diplomatic solution.

Because Europe would have been bogged down by war other nations in the East may have taken a rise to power and set off for exploration before the West did.

As for the your points in the Americas Spain mainly wiped out the Aztec religion because it was basically the "anti-religion" it was seen as Pagan and rejected by the conquistidores. Even if Spain were to have found the Americas first if they are bogged by war what would have allowed them to trade with the East for gun powder? Unless you are saying there would have been a stronger uniting force in Europe to prevent it from being plagued by religion wars after the fall of the Roman empire Europe's technology and exploration would not have been a priority for European countries.

And I forgot to post my what if: What if there was no Renaissance?
Actually, that is not true. The western Europeans WERE bogged down by war even during the explorations. The reason China and Japan did not explore is because they became isolationistic. They only resided in their area. Most of Asia was like that up until the 50-80s.
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