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Competitive Battling This board is for competitive battling discussion. Get team help or learn to play competitively.


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  #1  
Old 03-04-2011, 12:02 PM
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Default Simple Question/Simple Answer Thread

This is your hub for all your doubts and questions regarding this sub-forum. Don't hesitate to ask any questions.
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  #2  
Old 03-07-2011, 06:22 PM
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Default Help with Dratini?

I decided very recently I wanted to add a Dragonite to my team. However, I would like to try to learn to EV train and I was hoping this could be my first product.
For my spot in the game, I have beaten all 8 Kanto and Johto gyms but haven't defeated the Elite Four the second time yet. (Haven't cared to try yet, hahah.)

Anyway, I got a level 40 Dratini in the Dragon's Den earlier today and haven't touched it yet as to not spoil the potential EV training.
It's stats are as follows:
Male / Brave Nature (+ Attack - Speed + Sp Defense)
Attack 71
Defense 48
Sp. Attack 53
Sp. Defense 52
Speed 50
Level 40

Should I:
a) raise this Dratini
b) look for another level 40 of a specific nature
c) look for a level 15 of a specific nature
d) try to get the extremespeed level 15 of a specific nature
e) breed for a Dratini of a specific nature?

Also, related more to my unfamiliarity with EV training:
a) What stats should I EV train him for?
b) Where is the best place to do this? (just recommendatory places )
c) Will his high level effect the EV training?

Sorry for such a long post. Thanks for your help!

Edit: Forgot to mention this is in Soul Silver. Not very smart on my part but context clues could have lead you do it anyway.
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Last edited by Espeon206; 03-07-2011 at 06:26 PM.
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  #3  
Old 03-07-2011, 07:13 PM
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Default Re: Help with Dratini?

What Badal said, but since you've already posted.

Quote:
Should I:
a) raise this Dratini
b) look for another level 40 of a specific nature
c) look for a level 15 of a specific nature
d) try to get the extremespeed level 15 of a specific nature
e) breed for a Dratini of a specific nature?
Either of the bolded ones. You're wrong on what Brave nature does, it reduces speed rather than SpDef. This is obviously a bad nature for Dragonite, who is best employed as a sweeper. Adamant or Jolly are what you want to be aiming for.

In terms of picking whether to breed or get Extremespeed, it's a judgement call. Extremespeed is a very handy move for DNite, allowing him to hit choice scarfers who outspeed him after a Dragon Dance. However breeding gives you more control over nature and, more importantly, IVs. Depending on the rest of the team, scarfers can be removed by other pokes leaving DNite to sweep unburdened with having to watch for them. Of course breeding for a nature with ESpeed would be the ideal compromise, but I can't remember if it's breedable or not. I'd personally go with breeding for nature and IVs, unless you're really committed and willing to attempt soft-resetting for a correctly-natured 'Nite with decent IVs.

Quote:
a) What stats should I EV train him for?
Dragonite has long been associated with his niche as a bulky Dragon Dancer, allowing it to differentiate itself from its otherwise superior counterpart, Salamence. However now that Mence is banished to the uber tier, Nite is now a viable choice as an offensive Dragon Dancer too. These are the two best options for Dragonite, and your choice of which you feel is more appealing determines which stats to EV, and how many EVs to invest in them:

Dragonite@Life Orb
Adamant/Jolly
252Att/252Spe/6??
Dragon Dance
Outrage
Earthquake
Extremespeed/Fire Punch

This is your typical aggressive Dragonite, with maximum investment in Attack and Speed to ensure your success as a Dragon Dancer. The final 6 EVs go depending on where your stats finish at level 100. They can be invested into HP initially, but if Dragonite's HP stat is divisible by 4 when you reach level 100, use a Pomeg Berry to remove the EV. This will allow you to switch into Stealth Rock 5 times, rather than 4.

Alternatively you can go bulky:

Dragonite@Leftovers
Adamant
252HP/44Att/212Spe
Dragon Dance
Dragon Claw
Earthquake/Fire Punch
Roost

Obviously if this set appeals to you more, you would breed for IVs rather than going for ESpeed. This set attempts to use its pretty substantial bulk to set up multiple Dragon Dances before sweeping, using Roost along the way. This set is arguably more difficult to use because you need multiple boosts to get the same power the prior set could get off of one thanks to additional EVs, Life Orb and the higher strength Outrage, but has more chance of reaching sky high stats if the opportunity presents itself.

Quote:
b) Where is the best place to do this? (just recommendatory places )
The water in Mount Silver. You'll encounter Poliwhirl and Seaking, who give 2 Speed and 2 Attack EVs respectively. If you choose to go bulky, Nidorina on routes 13-15 provide 2 HP EVs each.

Quote:
c) Will his high level effect the EV training?
Level has no effect on EVs, they all come into play by the time your reach level 100.
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  #4  
Old 03-14-2011, 09:04 PM
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Default Pokemon Online Fails

So I tried to log into PO today and i keep getting the "Disconnected from server message for every server i try and join. Any ideas?
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  #5  
Old 03-14-2011, 09:08 PM
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Default Re: Pokemon Online Fails

Quote:
Originally Posted by T r I p L e x View Post
So I tried to log into PO today and i keep getting the "Disconnected from server message for every server i try and join. Any ideas?
It sometimes happens when the server has like 497 people in it. Just keep trying and you will eventually get on.

Trust me it happens to me almost everyday :P
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  #6  
Old 03-14-2011, 10:09 PM
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Default Re: Pokemon Online Fails

The Official Server gets a load of traffic these days, it can take multiple attempts. Play on Smogon's server for OU or Ubers, it's never difficult to get onto and the calibre of battles is generally better.
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  #7  
Old 03-14-2011, 11:49 PM
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Default Re: Pokemon Online Fails

If your name is very generic someone may be using it so you may have to change your name, that happened to me actually.
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  #8  
Old 03-21-2011, 12:08 AM
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Default Stat changing moves?

Hey guys, I'm just wondering whether moves like growl, screech and growth etc are ever actually used? I normally just get my mons to have the 4 biggest damage hitters.
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  #9  
Old 03-21-2011, 08:23 AM
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Default Re: Stat changing moves?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natolio View Post
Hey guys, I'm just wondering whether moves like growl, screech and growth etc are ever actually used? I normally just get my mons to have the 4 biggest damage hitters.
Stat reducers? No, in competitive circumstances they are nigh-on useless because opponents can simply switch out. They may rarely be used specifically to force switches, but as an actual part of an aggressive strategy, your opponent would have to be a moron to let you sit there and let you drop their stats to nothing.

Boosting your own stats, on the other hand, is a very common strategy and very effective on a lot of Pokemon.
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  #10  
Old 04-14-2011, 03:41 PM
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Default Re: Simple Question/Simple Answer Thread

How does the rate my team work?
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  #11  
Old 04-14-2011, 03:49 PM
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Default Re: Simple Question/Simple Answer Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by brandon_g View Post
How does the rate my team work?
You post your competitive team, people here give you their opinions and provide advice on how to make it better. Simples.
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  #12  
Old 04-14-2011, 04:06 PM
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Default Re: Simple Question/Simple Answer Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gofre View Post
You post your competitive team, people here give you their opinions and provide advice on how to make it better. Simples.
Thanks very much
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  #13  
Old 04-16-2011, 12:38 PM
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Default Re: Simple Question/Simple Answer Thread

Please critique my Victini build!

This will be my first competitive pokemon.

Victini (fire/psy) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252HP/252 SpA/6 Spe
Nature: Modest (+SpA,-Att)
- Fire Blast (Fire TM: 120/85 10% burn)
- Psychic (Psychic TM: 90/100 may reduce targets SpD)
- Energy Ball (Grass TM: 80/100 may reduce targets SpD)
- Shadow Ball (Ghost TM: 80/100 may reduce targets SpD)

Black is my first Pokemon game. My pool of pokemon is limited but I've finished the core storyline and acquired the promotional Victini. I thought that would be a good choice for training my first competitive pokemon. I read up on natures, EVs and IVs but am limited in practice. What I'd like is a well-rounded comptetive pokemon that would be a welcome addition to just about any team I might make. This Victini is of modest nature (+Sp.Att,-Att) so I figure I'd focus on special attacks. His promotional physical attack looks super-awesome but I don't have it and from what I can tell his special attacks are pretty solid.

252 HP, 252 Sp.Att, 6 Speed

My thought is that the extra HP bulk is better for a general-use Pokemon since I don't know what teams he might be in, or if he will be for 1v1, 3v3 or whatever format. I don't really even know what the various formats are since I'm brand new to this. Reviewing team construction, I've seen that most attack pokemon are termed sweepers and usually choose speed over HP. I'd like to know if I should follow suit and put 252 in speed. From what I've read Victini has been shown to be subpar for a full-out SpA sweeper. I'm guessing most people tried him with 252 speed. Since that hasn't worked, I thought I'd try HP. I'm torn in this aspect.

I checked this guy's IVs and unfortunately they are bad. Closest estimate is HP 8, Att 2, Def 2, SpA 18, SpD 19, Spe 21. At least the higher numbers are in decent stats. I don't know if that information will help you give advice on how I should proceed. So far I've put 252 EVs into SpA.

Rocky Helmet

Frankly I haven't researched the items much and I'm not sure how inhibiting the choice items are. This seemed like a decent and generic option.

Fire Blast

My STAB fire attack. Chosen over Searing Shot to take advantage of Victory Star ability. This will miss 1 out of 20 attacks. Will be my primary attack. Used against eight types: Grass 3x, Ice 3x, Bug 3x, Steel 3x, Normal 1.5x, Electric 1.5x, Flying 1.5x and Dark 1.5x.

Psychic

My STAB psychic attack. This will be used against four types: Fighting 3x, Poison 3x, Fire 1.5x and Dragon 1.5x.

Energy Ball

Filler grass attack to cover weaknesses to Water, Ground and Rock. It deals 2x damage to those types. Those are three types of pokemon that are exceptionally dangerous to Victini as they all do 3x damage. I'm not sure if Grass Knot is a better option. I guess it depends how heavy typical pokemon of those types are.

Shadow Ball

My secondary filler, this ghost attack covers weaknesses to Psychic and Ghost and will deal 2x damage to those types. This would be the attack I'd drop for some sort of utility attack, if one is recommended. With all the hype about Chandelure, I chose this.

I've chosen four damaging special attacks. All in all, the attacks have good coverage. No attack should just deal base 1x damage to any single-type Pokemon. To summarize:

3x damage (6): Grass, Ice, Bug, Steel, Fighting, Poison
2x damage (5): Water, Ground, Rock, Psychic, Ghost
1.5x damage (6): Normal, Electric, Flying, Dark, Fire, Dragon

Just to reiterate, this is my first attempt at training a competitive mon. All that is set in stone at the moment is a modest Victini with 252 points in SpA, as I've already trained them.

Thanks in advance for any advice given. The more in-depth the better!
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  #14  
Old 04-16-2011, 01:25 PM
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Default Re: Simple Question/Simple Answer Thread

Trying to check IVs at such a low level (I'm assuming it's still UT) is most usually inaccurate, given the very tight bands of maximum and minimum stats at that point in the game. They may end up being ok.

-Maxed out speed rather than maxed out HP, Victini has very poor defensive typing and rather unremarkable defences,especially in such an offensively-oriented metagame.

-Psycho Shock over Psychic, the small power dip is a worthy trade off for the ability to beat Chansey and Blissey, and you lose very little else for having a "physical" psychic move rather than a special one.

-Thunderbolt over Shadow Ball, Gyarados has no problem sponging a single attack off any other move while it sets up a Dragon Dance and proceeds to OHKO you. If it has Moxie, you're in for a world of pain as it gains more and more boosts. Chandelure is only hyped because of its Dream World ability, Shadow Tag. Since this isn't released yet, it sees very little use in standard play at the moment. But even if it didn't, you wouldn't stand a chance of beating it, given that they always have a choice scarf and there's no way you're surviving a STAB super effective Shadow Ball off a base 145 SpAtt. Same goes for Gengar, who will outspeed and KO you without it (STAB Psychic moves are more effective against it anyway). The remaining ghosts are all either defensive or rare sights in OU. The former can be muscled past with STAB moves given that they usually rely on status for damage (Usually Will-O-Wisp, luckily) and rarely invest in their offences, and the latter are too rare to worry about too much anyway.

-Life Orb or Leftovers over Rocky Helmet. As mentioned before, Victini is not the greatest defensive pokemon, and will rarely be taking enough hits to make Rocky Helmet worthwhile (Very few of the common moves used against him are contact moves either). Life Orb increases the offensive prowess you should be capitalising on, while Leftovers helps offset the effects of entry hazards, very useful on a Stealth Rock weak poke. A choice scarf could also be something to consider, providing a substantial speed boost. Victini would far rather be Timid anyway, so you may find it proves more useful than the other two choices I listed.
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  #15  
Old 04-16-2011, 01:48 PM
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Default Re: Simple Question/Simple Answer Thread

Excellent analysis, Gofre. Thank you for the detailed explanations. Could you please tell me a bit more about the HP vs Speed decision-making process? Why is it that you wouldn't want HP on a pokemon with five weaknesses? Wouldn't the extra HP give him a chance to hit back, wheras he will probably be outspeeded by most any other pokemon that put EV into speed anyway? Like I said, I haven't done any real competitive dueling so excuse my ignorance on the matter. I've heard that speed Victinis are subpar competitively so I figured that if that doesn't work, try something else. No point in making it worse though xD.

Again, thanks for the great response!
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