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  #16  
Old 03-24-2011, 09:16 PM
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Default Re: War Declared

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Originally Posted by Lord Khajmer View Post
Yeeeeah, Painkiller's right, you have no clue about international politics, warfare, or the state of international relations. China would not attack us not because of economic ties, but because they would lose. We would instantly call our debt to them null, use all the money we would save on deficit payment (which would be a lot) bolstering our army, pull out troops from the Middle East because defending our country is more important (sorry Afghanistan), and forcibly shove them out using one of the best military forces in the world. Then the war would be called off due to the fact that both sides know they can't get into each others borders easily and MAD would prevent the use of nuclear weapons, China would be booted off the UN Security Council for trying to start World War III, they would lose most of the economic growth they've had due to, yes, American investors pulling out as well as losing all of the money we owed them, their people would be pissed for pulling them into such a war, and overall they would gain nothing as opposed to America, who would gain a hell of a lot just by the massive reduction to our deficit.

Meanwhile, the reason we're having problems dealing with the insurgents is because unlike a legitimate war between two countries, we're fighting in a haystack, and they're the needle. It's exactly the same as in Vietnam, although in this case it's more the use of human shields and Assassin's Creed style blending in with the ordinary people rather than jungle guerrilla warfare. Same principle though, we're dealing with a fairly small, difficult to find group with an advantage over us in the environment (in Nam it was having lived in the country and therefore knowing the jungles much better, in this case it's not giving a damn about civilian casualties). Our military is excellent, but we're not in a legitimate war.
You apparently have never seen battles in Laos and Cambodia.

And it is hard to say who would win. China has the largest military in the world, and the other Asian communist countries to back it up as well.
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  #17  
Old 03-24-2011, 09:36 PM
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Default Re: War Declared

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Originally Posted by TitaniumAnimations View Post
Hay, keep it friendly please.

China would attack America if it weren't for their heavy economic ties. All America would have to do is yank their factories out of their country, and there goes its money, currently.

If America was truly as powerful martially as people say they are, why are small groups of insurgents giving them so much trouble? I understand that it is mainly because of politics, but the military can take care of it if they are so all-mighty.
LMAO

You equate being able to hide in caves and plant bombs in the desert to take out an average of 2 soldiers a week with being able to take on the United States?

Painkiller and Khajmer are right, you know absolutely nothing about this, and stop even pretending that you do. The US has the best military in the world, period, and it will win a war with any other country in the world, period. It's not hard in the least to say who would win. Oh, and there are no other Asian communist countries that can back China up. NK? Laos? Vietnam? Who are you friggin' kidding? The US could beat all of East Asia put together. The most any country can hope to do against the US without resorting to nuclear war is to hide and use guerrilla tactics, there's nobody on the planet that can stand toe to toe, period. Anything else is just plain delusional.

And no, I'm not gonna be friendly when you claim things as blatantly wrong as that.
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  #18  
Old 03-24-2011, 10:13 PM
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Default Re: War Declared

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Originally Posted by Lusankya View Post
LMAO

You equate being able to hide in caves and plant bombs in the desert to take out an average of 2 soldiers a week with being able to take on the United States?

Painkiller and Khajmer are right, you know absolutely nothing about this, and stop even pretending that you do. The US has the best military in the world, period, and it will win a war with any other country in the world, period. It's not hard in the least to say who would win. Oh, and there are no other Asian communist countries that can back China up. NK? Laos? Vietnam? Who are you friggin' kidding? The US could beat all of East Asia put together. The most any country can hope to do against the US without resorting to nuclear war is to hide and use guerrilla tactics, there's nobody on the planet that can stand toe to toe, period. Anything else is just plain delusional.

And no, I'm not gonna be friendly when you claim things as blatantly wrong as that.
You can go ahead and think their military is unbeatable. That is what people said when the Roman legions existed, and they were terminated. There is no such thing as an unbeatable army, and while I support the US military, I know that they are not unbeatable. Korean War, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, all recent failures, no matter how you look at how the foe won.

The main problem is that the US has set their moral standards so high, they are afraid to open fire, fearing they might hit innocents in current war zones.
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  #19  
Old 03-24-2011, 10:32 PM
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Default Re: War Declared

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Originally Posted by TitaniumAnimations View Post
The main problem is that the US has set their moral standards so high, they are afraid to open fire, fearing they might hit innocents in current war zones.
I somehow doubt that. Besides, there's Blackwater.
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  #20  
Old 03-24-2011, 10:33 PM
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Default Re: War Declared

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Originally Posted by TitaniumAnimations View Post
You can go ahead and think their military is unbeatable. That is what people said when the Roman legions existed, and they were terminated.
You cannot seriously be comparing the fall of the Roman Empire and their military to the United States.

Nobody is this retarded if they know anything about history.
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  #21  
Old 03-24-2011, 10:36 PM
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Default Re: War Declared

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I somehow doubt that. Besides, there's Blackwater.
A rare instance.

And have you noticed that the US forces have not just sent air strikes into cities to bomb the living hell outta' them, meant to bomb civilians to weaken their morale? I believe they did so in World War II. Case, proven.

Quote:
You cannot seriously be comparing the fall of the Roman Empire and their military to the United States.

Nobody is this retarded if they know anything about history.
I can, and I will. I am not saying the actual government will fail the same way, or even fail at all, but I can tell you that their military is not an unbeatable force. That, good sir, has been proven in the past.
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  #22  
Old 03-24-2011, 10:43 PM
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Default Re: War Declared

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Originally Posted by TitaniumAnimations View Post
I can, and I will. I am not saying the actual government will fail the same way, or even fail at all, but I can tell you that their military is not an unbeatable force. That, good sir, has been proven in the past.
You're comparing an empire with dozens of different cultures, with many being forced into slavery to build a rapidly expanding empire, while most of the men of the home country become soldiers... to what the United States and our structure of society and military is.

You can't just compare the legions and their destruction to the United States military defeat in a toe-to-toe war. That comparison doesn't work at all to prove your point.
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  #23  
Old 03-24-2011, 10:47 PM
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Default Re: War Declared

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You're comparing an empire with dozens of different cultures, with many being forced into slavery to build a rapidly expanding empire, while most of the men of the home country become soldiers... to what the United States and our structure of society and military is.

You can't just compare the legions and their destruction to the United States military defeat in a toe-to-toe war. That comparison doesn't work at all to prove your point.
No, but the premise does. During the era, people thought the legions were unbeatable, that is... until the Germanic armies proved those people wrong.
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  #24  
Old 03-24-2011, 10:57 PM
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Default Re: War Declared

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Originally Posted by TitaniumAnimations View Post
No, but the premise does. During the era, people thought the legions were unbeatable, that is... until the Germanic armies proved those people wrong.
You're still not able to use the comparison.

The Roman Legions fell because they grew outnumbered because of how many cultures they tried to take in vast regions of land. No matter how well trained your army is, when you're outnumbered, the peoples you've taken control of can't stand it anymore and revolt, you're going to lose. When trying to compare the United States being defeated in the manner in which you are, it absolutely doesn't work because of the cultural melting pot which exists in this country.

Not to mention this discussion all started over war with a FOREIGN power, not a power NEIGHBORING or WITHIN the country that is at war.
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  #25  
Old 03-25-2011, 12:54 AM
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Default Re: War Declared

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Originally Posted by TitaniumAnimations View Post
You can go ahead and think their military is unbeatable. That is what people said when the Roman legions existed, and they were terminated. There is no such thing as an unbeatable army, and while I support the US military, I know that they are not unbeatable. Korean War, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, all recent failures, no matter how you look at how the foe won.
Deciding to leave after fighting for a long time on foreign soil =/= foreigners successfully being able to launch an attack on the US.

Think about it this way: if it's this hard for a world superpower to subdue a bunch of guys hiding in holes in the ground, how hard is it going to be for puny third world countries to subdue a superior force?

Oh, and your comparison to Rome is totally pointless. Besides the fact that both America and Rome were powerful military entities of their time, literally nothing else between their militaries can be compared. Not to mention that at the time of its defeat Rome was a decaying society whose army was primarily composed to underpaid mercenaries that had little to no control over its own territories. Any conventional war the US gets in with any single country is a guaranteed curbstomp, period.
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  #26  
Old 03-25-2011, 02:37 AM
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Default Re: War Declared

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Originally Posted by TitaniumAnimations View Post
I can, and I will. I am not saying the actual government will fail the same way, or even fail at all, but I can tell you that their military is not an unbeatable force. That, good sir, has been proven in the past.
Ignoring your ridiculous Rome comparison, no one is claiming that the American military is unbeatable. Hell, I'm actually of the opinion that the Israeli military is superior to ours (regardless of my issues with their ethics). But the American military is easily one of the most powerful and most disciplined, and is pretty much 95% guaranteed to win if we end up in a direct toe-to-toe war with another military. We're not unbeatable, but we'd be damn freaking hard to beat.
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  #27  
Old 03-25-2011, 02:48 AM
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Default Re: War Declared

Here's something about your statement that China has the largest army in the world. Sun Tzu's art of war states that numbers mean nothing in war numbers do not equate to military power. Especially in a war on foreign soil. The US hasn't fought a war on the home front since it was founded. Comparing the "Globocop" wars to the most powerful defensive military in the world is just insane. Vietnam was a defeat because we got tired of throwing troops away. All we had to do was MOAB the jungle until nothing existed but we didn't wanna know why? We followed through with what we stood for, even when we aren't the "good guys" in the war we are gonna fight like them. Same with Korea.

Here is a little something for you to imagine. The US has a missile defense system that can shoot anything on our radar. Our radar is so good a tower in Maine can pick up a basketball spinning in Florida. We can handle just about anything at home. The fact that America hasn't had a full on strike at their home front involving actual armies is evidence enough to prove no one wants to directly challenge us outside of their boundaries. You can't win a real war if you can't even attack your enemy's home country.


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And have you noticed that the US forces have not just sent air strikes into cities to bomb the living hell outta' them, meant to bomb civilians to weaken their morale? I believe they did so in World War II. Case, proven.
Actually the US was praised because we weren't like our European allies. We precision bombed, we were the first to do so in a while. The only real bomb we used to kill civilians was the nuke. And well....that was a means to end the war sooner. The British were the ones that "bombed the living hell outta' them."

We shot at railways and trains, he hit factories, we precision bombed tanks in urban war zones. The list goes on.

Just face it you're wrong about the US losing to anyone who would dare to attack them and commit on their homefront. The reason why insurgents win is because they are using meat shields that we don't want to shoot through. The citizens aren't on they're side the citizens coexist with the insurgents. Hard to shoot the right target when all the targets look the same until one pulls out an AK-47 and straps C4 to his chest (stereotypical yes but to the point). Guerrilla warfare is the only way small groups can fight opposing forces and ultimately keep it at a standstill until the larger force gets rougher and plows its way through or they give up not wanting to kill everything.

And no one thought Rome to be unbeatable at its decaying period. Why do you think its own populace decided to rise up and rebel around that time as well. Rome at its prime was unbeatable when it fell the society was already an empty shell.
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  #28  
Old 03-25-2011, 06:12 AM
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Default Re: War Declared

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Here's something about your statement that China has the largest army in the world. Sun Tzu's art of war states that numbers mean nothing in war numbers do not equate to military power. Especially in a war on foreign soil. The US hasn't fought a war on the home front since it was founded. Comparing the "Globocop" wars to the most powerful defensive military in the world is just insane. Vietnam was a defeat because we got tired of throwing troops away. All we had to do was MOAB the jungle until nothing existed but we didn't wanna know why? We followed through with what we stood for, even when we aren't the "good guys" in the war we are gonna fight like them. Same with Korea.

Here is a little something for you to imagine. The US has a missile defense system that can shoot anything on our radar. Our radar is so good a tower in Maine can pick up a basketball spinning in Florida. We can handle just about anything at home. The fact that America hasn't had a full on strike at their home front involving actual armies is evidence enough to prove no one wants to directly challenge us outside of their boundaries. You can't win a real war if you can't even attack your enemy's home country.




Actually the US was praised because we weren't like our European allies. We precision bombed, we were the first to do so in a while. The only real bomb we used to kill civilians was the nuke. And well....that was a means to end the war sooner. The British were the ones that "bombed the living hell outta' them."

We shot at railways and trains, he hit factories, we precision bombed tanks in urban war zones. The list goes on.

Just face it you're wrong about the US losing to anyone who would dare to attack them and commit on their homefront. The reason why insurgents win is because they are using meat shields that we don't want to shoot through. The citizens aren't on they're side the citizens coexist with the insurgents. Hard to shoot the right target when all the targets look the same until one pulls out an AK-47 and straps C4 to his chest (stereotypical yes but to the point). Guerrilla warfare is the only way small groups can fight opposing forces and ultimately keep it at a standstill until the larger force gets rougher and plows its way through or they give up not wanting to kill everything.

And no one thought Rome to be unbeatable at its decaying period. Why do you think its own populace decided to rise up and rebel around that time as well. Rome at its prime was unbeatable when it fell the society was already an empty shell.
Wow! False! The United States bombed plenty of cities, including Hamburg and Dresden (yes, the United States took part in Dresden).

The person who says numbers do not matter, obviously has too few men. Numbers do count. Numbers count a lot. Not only is it a large mass of warm bodies for you to throw endlessly at your enemies, it also has a psychological affect on them as well. If you saw an endless wave of enemies coming toward you defenses, you would break and fall back.

I do not care how any victory was achieved. Lusankya acted as if the U.S military was unbeatable, said there was no one who could beat it. The point is, yes, there are people who can beat it as there have been people who could beat it in the past.

About my Rome comparison. In no way did I directly compare the two armies. I simply stated that they were both considered unbeatable until they were beaten.
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Old 03-25-2011, 04:57 PM
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Default Re: War Declared

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Originally Posted by TitaniumAnimations View Post
Wow! False! The United States bombed plenty of cities, including Hamburg and Dresden (yes, the United States took part in Dresden).
Let's be clear here. We do not attack civilians for two reasons. The first is because of essentially agreement between nations that you don't kill our civilians and we don't kill yours. The second is because we are better then those who attack civilians. Let's be abundantly clear here, the reason we have any justification to fight extremists is because they target and kill civilians without a second thought. The moment we did the same we would be no better than they are. We have ideals and we stand for them.

Quote:
The person who says numbers do not matter, obviously has too few men. Numbers do count. Numbers count a lot. Not only is it a large mass of warm bodies for you to throw endlessly at your enemies, it also has a psychological affect on them as well. If you saw an endless wave of enemies coming toward you defenses, you would break and fall back.
No, as a matter of fact. For one thing, in the modern age, having an endless wave of enemies just means that more enemies are going to be killed per missile strike. For another, it matters not how large your army is, but rather how well it is trained. I turn your attention to the Battle of Thermopylae, where a force of 7,000 Greeks held off an army of more than 100,000 Persians using superior tactics and training for a week, and most likely would have continued to had they not been betrayed. The size of your army does not matter, what matters is how well it is used, and the American military is pretty much exclusively against Israel for the title of best trained and best led in the world.

Quote:
I do not care how any victory was achieved. Lusankya acted as if the U.S military was unbeatable, said there was no one who could beat it. The point is, yes, there are people who can beat it as there have been people who could beat it in the past.
The only times in history that the American army has been defeated were when we said "screw you guys, I'm going home" because we felt that victory was not worth the cost.

Quote:
About my Rome comparison. In no way did I directly compare the two armies. I simply stated that they were both considered unbeatable until they were beaten.
Except that when the Roman army was considered unbeatable it was unbeatable. It wasn't until after both the Empire and the army had stagnated and decayed to the point of failure, that the quality of the army was no longer the peak of the world but instead, as BRL pointed out, a hollow shell of what it once was.
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  #30  
Old 03-25-2011, 08:33 PM
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Default Re: War Declared

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Wow! False! The United States bombed plenty of cities, including Hamburg and Dresden (yes, the United States took part in Dresden).

The person who says numbers do not matter, obviously has too few men. Numbers do count. Numbers count a lot. Not only is it a large mass of warm bodies for you to throw endlessly at your enemies, it also has a psychological affect on them as well. If you saw an endless wave of enemies coming toward you defenses, you would break and fall back.

I do not care how any victory was achieved. Lusankya acted as if the U.S military was unbeatable, said there was no one who could beat it. The point is, yes, there are people who can beat it as there have been people who could beat it in the past.

About my Rome comparison. In no way did I directly compare the two armies. I simply stated that they were both considered unbeatable until they were beaten.
China has 3.4 million soldiers, the US has 2.4 million. We also have twice the number of tanks and aircraft, most of them superior to their Chinese counterparts.

No one has ever "beat" the US army. Retreat from Korea, Vietnam, and all the other so-called losses were political losses, not military ones. The Vietnamese couldn't force the US military out of their country. Neither can Iraqi insurgents or the Taliban. Politics forces the US military out of countries. I guarantee you if the US was a dictatorship interested in conquest the only way we would have retreated from Vietnam is if the country stopped being able to support macroscopic lifeforms. There has yet to be an army that could force the US military out of their country by rendering them physically unable to continue the fight in the way in a significant way like the defeats of WWII. So no, it has yet to be "beat".
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