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Pokemon: Black/White Discuss the game: Pokemon Black and Pokemon White. Ask/Answer questions and discussions about Pokemon Black/White only.


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  #1  
Old 03-10-2011, 11:49 PM
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Default New Pokemon Tier Discussion Thread

Maybe it is a nice idea to talk about what pokemon gonna do in the UBER and OU tiers. Since Smogon's not updated yet, why not start some talk here?

For starters, I think Excadrill is gonna be OU. Strong fysical pokemon with good typing (Ground/Steel), good stats: HP 110, ATTACK 135 and SPEED 88. His ability however, is what makes the difference. Double speed in Sandstorm.. like O>O.
Pity he can't learn Iron Head, however.

Krookodile also looks like a real monster to me. Intimidate along with some very nice STAB moves... Anyone seen that new Dark move? Foul Play... 95 power 100 accuracy, physical and no drawback! It also learns Outrage, so this could be the new Dragon killer! I also think Sturdy Pokemon gonna play a bigger role in the metagame.


Post your ideas here! I am curious how you other trainers think about what new Generation V pokemon could make a difference.
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Old 03-15-2011, 01:08 AM
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Default Re: New Pokemon Tier Discussion Thread

I'm sorry this isn't a direct answer to your post, but I find the thread very interesting. I used to be a big player in Yu-Gi-Oh! and I went to the UK Nationals a few times. So metagames really interest me. I have no idea if there are any tournaments near me as I've only just got my DS (not player pokemon since gameboy colour). Are there different tiers? How are competitions run? If there is a link for this kind of info then it would be great if you could post it :)
  #3  
Old 03-15-2011, 05:27 AM
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Default Re: New Pokemon Tier Discussion Thread

Check out Smogon.com, Natolio.
You'll probably enjoy that.

Do we think Hydreigon will be bumped to Uber?
Or are Fighting type moves so common now that they'll keep him in OU?
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  #4  
Old 03-15-2011, 06:02 AM
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Default Re: New Pokemon Tier Discussion Thread

I find it best to not predict what will be OU but what will be Uber, for example shadow tag shandera.
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  #5  
Old 03-15-2011, 08:25 AM
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Default Re: New Pokemon Tier Discussion Thread

I hope they don't move Hydreigon to Uber. I know, it's fast and it's also very powerful, but I've noticed that it gets outperformed by Scizor, Lucario, Volcarona, Chandelure, and many others at times. Also, there are a lot of Pokémon in the OU tier, especially the fighting types, can destroy it without a sweat. xD

I think Gyarados should be moved to BL, a tier most people don't seem to pay enough attention to. (I wish they did though, it'd be fun to play in that tier!)
I've seen 'em being used only on rare occasions ever since 5th Gen began. xD It's too powerful to be in UU, or NU, and since it's not being used enough, keeping it in OU won't be a good idea, IMO. So, yeah, BL would be the perfect place for it to be in. ^^
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  #6  
Old 03-15-2011, 07:45 PM
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Default Re: New Pokemon Tier Discussion Thread

I feel the tiers shouldn't be depended on how often a Pokemon is used but if it has the power to wreak damage with the big boys. Just because it isn't used often doesn't mean it isn't OU. I am sure Gyarados still packs a punch against some of the new boys in OU.
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Old 03-15-2011, 09:41 PM
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Default Re: New Pokemon Tier Discussion Thread

=P All I know is that the new dog dude... my god he's a beast when it comes to physical attacks. I go for two boost in the game, he gets one, and I'm taken out. Meanwhile my two boosts if I can get them in barely does stuff to him. It's nuts!

=D I like him. lol

As for his label... I have no idea. I don't think he'd ever be an OU mon or an Uber.

=^^= Nya
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  #8  
Old 03-15-2011, 11:12 PM
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Default Re: New Pokemon Tier Discussion Thread

Guys, guys, guys. There is nothing to debate. We all know Squirtle maintains the God tier, so be quiet xD
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Old 03-15-2011, 11:24 PM
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Default Re: New Pokemon Tier Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by TitaniumAnimations View Post
Guys, guys, guys. There is nothing to debate. We all know Squirtle maintains the God tier, so be quiet xD
Golly, you're right. How is it we keep forgetting about our favorite turtle?

*is ashamed of herself*

=;n;= Nya
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  #10  
Old 03-16-2011, 02:11 AM
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Default Re: New Pokemon Tier Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRAKING View Post
Maybe it is a nice idea to talk about what pokemon gonna do in the UBER and OU tiers. Since Smogon's not updated yet, why not start some talk here?

For starters, I think Excadrill is gonna be OU. Strong fysical pokemon with good typing (Ground/Steel), good stats: HP 110, ATTACK 135 and SPEED 88. His ability however, is what makes the difference. Double speed in Sandstorm.. like O>O.
Pity he can't learn Iron Head, however.

Excadrill is definitely OU, but why on earth would he need Iron Head? Steel moves have very poor coverage, and they give fighting/water types the opportunity to switch in and nail it with STAB Mach Punch/Vacuum Wave/Aqua Jet. Excadrill is a pokemon who is actually better off without dual stab, there's very little it can hit harder than the earthquake/rock slide combo anyway.

Krookodile also looks like a real monster to me. Intimidate along with some very nice STAB moves... Anyone seen that new Dark move? Foul Play... 95 power 100 accuracy, physical and no drawback! It also learns Outrage, so this could be the new Dragon killer! I also think Sturdy Pokemon gonna play a bigger role in the metagame.

Krookodile has been very meh in playtesting, sitting in the lower half of UU since the very start. It's a nice build, but lacks raw power or anything significant to separate itself from the big boys of physical sweeping. Evo Stone Porygon 2 is probably still the best dragon killer imo, it even stands a chance of surviving a +3 Outrage from an Adamant Life Orb Salamence. Granted it's only a 1% chance, but I'm not aware of anything else that can do that without resisting it.

Post your ideas here! I am curious how you other trainers think about what new Generation V pokemon could make a difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwnsomeandrew View Post
I find it best to not predict what will be OU but what will be Uber, for example shadow tag shandera.
ST Shandera hasn't been released yet, but I agree, this thing will almost certainly go Uber.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neko-chan View Post
I hope they don't move Hydreigon to Uber. I know, it's fast and it's also very powerful, but I've noticed that it gets outperformed by Scizor, Lucario, Volcarona, Chandelure, and many others at times. Also, there are a lot of Pokémon in the OU tier, especially the fighting types, can destroy it without a sweat. xD

Hydregion is shaping up to look like it's not even going to make OU, never mind Ubers. It's raw stats are nice and it has a decent movepool, but its secondary typing is essentially useless and only adds weaknesses, and it lacks boosting moves to make itself into any real threat. Especially now the Lati Twins are both out of Ubers, there's very little reason to use this thing.

I think Gyarados should be moved to BL, a tier most people don't seem to pay enough attention to. (I wish they did though, it'd be fun to play in that tier!)
I've seen 'em being used only on rare occasions ever since 5th Gen began. xD It's too powerful to be in UU, or NU, and since it's not being used enough, keeping it in OU won't be a good idea, IMO. So, yeah, BL would be the perfect place for it to be in. ^^
Gyara's still looking to be a top tier threat, but I can see him dropping down to BL if an actual tier is established. For the last generation it's just been a limbo-state for anything that broke UU rather than a tier in of itself, if the same happens this gen they may as well abandon it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charizard Michelle View Post
I feel the tiers shouldn't be depended on how often a Pokemon is used but if it has the power to wreak damage with the big boys. Just because it isn't used often doesn't mean it isn't OU. I am sure Gyarados still packs a punch against some of the new boys in OU.
The tiers are only named after different degrees of usage, it's not how they are entirely decided or governed. When initial playtesting begins on a new generation, usage is the only real decider available, since the quality of a pokemon is all just theorymon if nobody's actually played it. Once cut-off points are established in terms of usage statistics and some preliminary tiers are established, a hell of a lot of work goes into testing and ensuring nothing is game-breaking in its particular environment. From this point the only time usage becomes a factor is when a pokemon drops out of use almost entirely in its particular tier, although if it breaks the game it can simply be moved back up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketMeowth View Post
=P All I know is that the new dog dude... my god he's a beast when it comes to physical attacks. I go for two boost in the game, he gets one, and I'm taken out. Meanwhile my two boosts if I can get them in barely does stuff to him. It's nuts!

=D I like him. lol

As for his label... I have no idea. I don't think he'd ever be an OU mon or an Uber.

=^^= Nya
Dog dude? I assume you mean one of these;



The former is indeed amazing in the lower tiers, the latter sucks =P

------------


Anyways, while this generation has brought some great new sweepers to the fray, from my experience (And from what the usage stats indicate), the best new Pokemon this gen and those guaranteed to reach the upper echelons of OU, are the bulky attackers and walls, namely:
Ferrothorn
Conkeldurr
Reuniclus
Jellicent
Volconara

Aside from Excadrill (Whose usage is tiny on teams without Tyranitar or Hippowdon), these five pokemon are the only new additions to crack the top-25 most used, and all but Volconara are used to capitalise on their bulk, and Volc is proving to be far more effective played in such a manner too. Ferrothorn, currently the most used pokemon in OU, is an excellent wall between his great typing and support movepool, but also capable of causing a lot of damage itself between its powerful STAB moves (Including one of the strongest Gyr Balls in the game) and the latent damage caused by Iron Barbs. Jellicent is in a similar boat, with great typing, spin blocking capabilities and an excellent movepool that it can effectively use. Reuniclus and Conkeldurr are both extremely powerful attackers with sky high offensive stats, both are capable of boosting their relevant attacking stats (And it's "speed" in Reuniclus' case using Trick Room) whilst simultaneously being extremely bulky. Volonara can play in numerous ways, with excellent typing and movepool and stats that allow it to straight-up sweep or as a bulky booster. It's obscenely versatile.

In terms of old pokes, not much has changed. Scizor, Heatran and Tyranitar retain their position of some of the most popular and effective pokes available, and are largely played in the exact same fashion. Perhaps the biggest change comes in the form of demoted ubers- Garchomp, Salamence, Lati@s and even Mew have all been relegated down to OU and are proving surprisingly manageable, with Mew even slipping down to UU. A few things got new toys in the form of movepool additions or Dream World abilities, but for the most part old pokes are seeing the same pecking order with the new guys mixed in, rather than any major departures from the 4th gen metagame.

For anybody whose interested, I'm writing a guide for the competitive sub-forum as an introduction to 5th gen competitive play. So far it only covers new and changed moves/abilities/game mechanics, but once Smogon have announced their full tiers I'll be analysing the new and old threats in each of them. You can check it out here if you're so inclined.
  #11  
Old 03-16-2011, 03:07 AM
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Default Re: New Pokemon Tier Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gofre View Post
Dog dude? I assume you mean one of these;



The former is indeed amazing in the lower tiers, the latter sucks =P
I see Terrakion as a bull more so over than the bulldog he's claimed to have traits of. So no, not him.

STOUTLAND that's his name! Yeah Stoutland is awesome.

=^^= Nya
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Old 03-16-2011, 03:10 AM
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Default Re: New Pokemon Tier Discussion Thread

Dragon Dancing Moxie Scrafty.

That is all. =D
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  #13  
Old 03-16-2011, 10:26 AM
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Default Re: New Pokemon Tier Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketMeowth View Post
I see Terrakion as a bull more so over than the bulldog he's claimed to have traits of. So no, not him.

STOUTLAND that's his name! Yeah Stoutland is awesome.

=^^= Nya
I just looked through the set looking for anything dog like =P
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