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  #31  
Old 02-18-2011, 05:18 AM
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Default Re: Political views?

Sure, I mean after all, EXPERIENCING it first hand cannot possibly beat a college degree right?

And honestly, IF IT HAS NEVER WORKED and you say IT WILL NEVER WORK, that proves all the more that what I am saying is correct. It will never work because of human nature.
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  #32  
Old 02-18-2011, 05:38 PM
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Default Re: Political views?

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Originally Posted by TitaniumAnimations View Post
Sure, I mean after all, EXPERIENCING it first hand cannot possibly beat a college degree right?
No, experiencing it and then putting forth an opinion about it via a metaphorical work cannot possibly beat putting forth an objective postulation about it using facts and external observations. Experiencing it first hand is pretty much the most guaranteed method of destroying your objectivity.
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  #33  
Old 02-18-2011, 10:13 PM
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Default Re: Political views?

So you are saying that one who experiences Communism would hate it because, say, they would be thrown in the Gulags because they were accused of conspiring with Capitalist "dogs?" But a person who has not experienced it and all he/she knows is the book facts and does not know a single thing about what it was like for one person. Sure, that will destroy a point of view.

I think many people lack the experience to actually make a decision. I myself am one, and while I travel the world I still have plenty to experience. I do not think one should rely completely on JUST facts from a history class.
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  #34  
Old 02-19-2011, 12:11 AM
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Default Re: Political views?

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Originally Posted by TitaniumAnimations View Post
Sure, I mean after all, EXPERIENCING it first hand cannot possibly beat a college degree right?

And honestly, IF IT HAS NEVER WORKED and you say IT WILL NEVER WORK, that proves all the more that what I am saying is correct. It will never work because of human nature.
I never once said it will never work. -__-

I've only said it hasn't worked because no one has done it following how Marx saw it occurring. The Communist Manifesto is a timeline to how governments gradually will become communist. It goes Agrarianism, Feudalism, Capitalism, Socialism, Communism. Russia failed because they went from Feudalism to Communism in a single step. I'm not even referring to "communism" because that general idea got warped in the eighties and is used to describe the Russian failed communism attempt. I'm referring to "marxism" the gradual formation of the society that so many alleged "followers" put to high esteem and failed to create because of the fact that they can't even follow directions.

And much to my surprise there are communist communities existing today. The only thing they deviate from is the fact that they are religious communities. The Dalai Lama's community of monks is a good example they work for the progress of the community and each member of that society is socially equal with the rest. They are doing exactly what he said would happen: there is no need for authoritative control, everyone holds the same social stance, everyone despite their differences is equal to one another.

And for those arguing that no one is equal Marx referred to everyone being socially equal, not economically, not physically, but socially equal. And really there would be no economy once the full realization occurred because its a self sustained community.

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Sure, I mean after all, EXPERIENCING it first hand cannot possibly beat a college degree right?
Umm once again I don't think I mentioned a college degree anywhere.

Khajmer couldn't have explained it any clearer. Writing about your experiences and your opinions of what happened makes you biased and blind to the other side. A retrospect on what really happened by looking at both sides of an event is worth a lot more than a one sided novel. Since Orwell didn't even experience true communism (the marxist kind) that makes his opinions about communism actually working are nothing more than just that, opinions.
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  #35  
Old 02-19-2011, 03:50 AM
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Default Re: Political views?

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Originally Posted by Blood Red Lucario View Post
I've only said it hasn't worked because no one has done it following how Marx saw it occurring. The Communist Manifesto is a timeline to how governments gradually will become communist. It goes Agrarianism, Feudalism, Capitalism, Socialism, Communism. Russia failed because they went from Feudalism to Communism in a single step. I'm not even referring to "communism" because that general idea got warped in the eighties and is used to describe the Russian failed communism attempt. I'm referring to "marxism" the gradual formation of the society that so many alleged "followers" put to high esteem and failed to create because of the fact that they can't even follow directions.

And much to my surprise there are communist communities existing today. The only thing they deviate from is the fact that they are religious communities. The Dalai Lama's community of monks is a good example they work for the progress of the community and each member of that society is socially equal with the rest. They are doing exactly what he said would happen: there is no need for authoritative control, everyone holds the same social stance, everyone despite their differences is equal to one another.

And for those arguing that no one is equal Marx referred to everyone being socially equal, not economically, not physically, but socially equal. And really there would be no economy once the full realization occurred because its a self sustained community.
As I gave evidence for before, a true Marxist society would live in utter poverty. As for the religious communities, they are not self-sustaining and require input from those outside of the system. Hence they also require inequality to function. Furthermore, the state of poverty (albeit wanted poverty) they live in is untenable for the long-term survival of the human species. And of course, a society without an economy is a society living in poverty. So yeah, Marx's dream means the destruction of about 2000 years of cultural and technological advancement, which is hardly desirable.
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  #36  
Old 02-19-2011, 01:34 PM
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Default Re: Political views?

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As I gave evidence for before, a true Marxist society would live in utter poverty. As for the religious communities, they are not self-sustaining and require input from those outside of the system. Hence they also require inequality to function. Furthermore, the state of poverty (albeit wanted poverty) they live in is untenable for the long-term survival of the human species. And of course, a society without an economy is a society living in poverty. So yeah, Marx's dream means the destruction of about 2000 years of cultural and technological advancement, which is hardly desirable.
Expand on what you mean by getting input from an outside source means there is social inequality in that society please.


By no economy I'm referring to no need for money. Food, clothing, shelter can all be gathered and amassed without spending a dime(and no not stealing either). Having no money may be poverty in a capitalist eye but according to Marx communism would spread around the globe meaning there would be no capitalism to view the society in poverty. So a world of humans sustaining their communities without using money because there no longer is any need for money is still poverty (they would have a means of support within their own system)?
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  #37  
Old 02-19-2011, 01:45 PM
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Default Re: Political views?

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Originally Posted by Blood Red Lucario View Post
Expand on what you mean by getting input from an outside source means there is social inequality in that society please.


By no economy I'm referring to no need for money. Food, clothing, shelter can all be gathered and amassed without spending a dime(and no not stealing either). Having no money may be poverty in a capitalist eye but according to Marx communism would spread around the globe meaning there would be no capitalism to view the society in poverty. So a world of humans sustaining their communities without using money because there no longer is any need for money is still poverty (they would have a means of support within their own system)?
They get food, construction supplies, etc. from outside their commune. Hence, there are those who are not their social equals providing them with necessary resources without which their existence would be impossible.

And by utter poverty I mean no electricity, no developed transportation system, no running water, a life where your primary concern is getting enough food to put on your table. Aka, the removal of 2000 years of technological development. Large-scale agriculture and developed infrastructure, not to mention intellectual and technological development, are all dependent on effective organization to maintain. That organization cannot be maintained if there are no organizers, which there wouldn't be in a perfectly equal society since giving anyone the power to organize gives them more power than the next person. Civilization cannot exist without organization, organization cannot exist without inequality. Thus a Marxist society lives in abject poverty.
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  #38  
Old 02-23-2011, 01:35 AM
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Default Re: Political views?

Being rather young and not well-versed in economics, I can't nearly debate on the level you two are about communism, but I think there's no question it just doesn't work. Just the fact that everyone gets equal pay and property regardless of job would make the whole thing fall to pieces; who on earth is going to be a brain surgeon if, after all that training, they're on the same level as someone in menial labor? It's counter to human interests on so many levels, really.

Anyhow, I'm one of the rare super-moderates in the world, I think. Imo, both socialism and more pure capitalism have their upsides and downsides and each work just fine as a system. Also, the Republicans are getting way too cozy with the Tea Party crazies and the Democrats prefer running away from their own state (seriously, Wisconsin dems, wtf) to doing anything anyone wants them to do; those two observations keep me right in the middle and thoroughly unassociated with anyone.

Socially liberal all the way, though.
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  #39  
Old 02-24-2011, 03:05 AM
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Also, the Republicans are getting way too cozy with the Tea Party crazies and the Democrats prefer running away from their own state (seriously, Wisconsin dems, wtf) to doing anything anyone wants them to do; those two observations keep me right in the middle and thoroughly unassociated with anyone.
1. Tea Party crazies are Republicans
2. The Democratic senators of Wisconsin left to prevent a vote on the bill that they don't want to pass. Since they have a minority, it would be sure to pass if they allowed a vote on it to proceed. Personally though, I think in this case it would be better to just let the Republicans be proven wrong.
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  #40  
Old 02-24-2011, 03:31 AM
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Default Re: Political views?

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Anyhow, I'm one of the rare super-moderates in the world, I think. Imo, both socialism and more pure capitalism have their upsides and downsides and each work just fine as a system. Also, the Republicans are getting way too cozy with the Tea Party crazies and the Democrats prefer running away from their own state (seriously, Wisconsin dems, wtf) to doing anything anyone wants them to do; those two observations keep me right in the middle and thoroughly unassociated with anyone.

Socially liberal all the way, though.
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  #41  
Old 02-24-2011, 06:09 AM
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Default Re: Political views?

Both Republicans and Democrats are too corrupt to properly run the country anymore. Furthermore, I do not hold anything against most forms of government. My point was that Communism was different from Marxism, almost to the extent that they contradict each other (one has a government, the other doesn't). And while I think neither will work, I am still quite open to other perspectives.
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  #42  
Old 02-24-2011, 09:27 AM
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Default Re: Political views?

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Originally Posted by TitaniumAnimations View Post
Both Republicans and Democrats are too corrupt to properly run the country anymore.
Actually, that's purely politician, has nothing to do with parties. Independents, Greens, Libertarians, they are all just as susceptible to corruption. The issue with the parties is that rather than run against the opposing candidate(s), far too many politicians find it easier just to run against the opposing party. Thus, when they get into office, they're incapable of compromise and bipartisanship, due either to believing what they themselves have said on the campaign trail or being unable to do it or else appear to be cooperating with the devil to their supporters.
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  #43  
Old 02-24-2011, 10:00 AM
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Default Re: Political views?

Even the followers of the Republicans and Democrats hate each other. They constantly moan and whine about the other's policy this, policy that. It is getting to the point where the United States forgets which side they are on... Their countries'.
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  #44  
Old 03-19-2011, 10:25 PM
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Default Re: Political views?

Oh, and I never plan on voting for ANYBODY or ANYTHING. In my humble opinion, of the candidates suck and I'll be screwed either way. I'd rather have a brutal dictator like Stalin or Mao run the world instead of idiots/liars/n00bs, etc.

Personally, I think I'd be the perfect dictator. I have the tragic past, the severe lack of mercy, and the speaking power to fit the job, among other things.
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  #45  
Old 03-20-2011, 02:02 AM
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Default Re: Political views?

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Originally Posted by Lusankya View Post
1. Tea Party crazies are Republicans
2. The Democratic senators of Wisconsin left to prevent a vote on the bill that they don't want to pass. Since they have a minority, it would be sure to pass if they allowed a vote on it to proceed. Personally though, I think in this case it would be better to just let the Republicans be proven wrong.
1. My bad on the wording there, I know they are. What I meant was that, despite the fact that the Tea Party is a minority of the Republican party that's choked up with racist, homophobic, birther nutbags, none of the Republican leaders ever denounce them; in some cases, they even cater to them! If they wanted to maintain credibility, they would've disassociated themselves from the Tea Party; now, though, their reputation is suffering for it. Seriously, with this and Palin, the Republicans are becoming the bane of moderates.
2. I know why they left and I think it's completely ludicrous. You don't flee your state and hold the vote hostage just because you don't like a new policy; it's utterly immature and a disgrace to the democratic process. If the PEOPLE hate what the Republican majority is doing, they'll vote in Dems next time to reverse the bill -- THAT'S how democracy works.
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