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  #16  
Old 11-05-2010, 02:46 AM
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Default Re: Election Day 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doodlebop View Post
Actually, no, that's not true! If you cut taxes and spending, the economy will improve.

Because, when you cut taxes, people are more likely to spend money. They don't feel like a humongous portion is going to the government. So they'll be more motivated to go out and buy something, stick money in the bank, etc.

But you have to cut spending too. Otherwise it still won't work.

*clears throat* Anyway.
That's the theory. The problem is that under your circumstances, cutting the taxes mean absolutely nothing to 99% of Americans, because the amount of tax you cut is so minuscule that you might as well have not. The main profiteers of this would be the top 1%, where a small cut like a 1% tax cut would actually have a big impact (instead of a couple hundred bucks for an average middle income family, they would gain an extra hundreds of thousands of dollars). That's the big flaw of tax cuts in it that you have a very big hit in your tax revenue for very little gain in spending power, since 99% of the population have barely any benefit.

Secondarily to that, you have to cut spending. Obviously cutting spending in a system already under strain and with very little budging on the politicians' own cutting of budgets (hypocritical, but is common practice) means that the cutting has to be on public services. Cutting public services when the public services themselves are under strain is suicidal, as exemplified by Ontario's huge budgeting blunder in the late 90's and early 2000's (where education AND hospital budget cuts led to both systems pretty much imploding on itself).

Last edited by Kenny_C.002; 11-05-2010 at 02:51 AM.
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  #17  
Old 11-05-2010, 03:01 AM
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Default Re: Election Day 2010

Yeah. I don't like talking about politics but meh.

For me I am mad at both parties but I am mostly mad at the Republicans then Democratics. During the last two years the Republicans have been making it hard for the Democratics to do anything thus making it look like they weren't doing anything. Instead of trying to work with them they just acted like dead weight. Then they talk about cutting spending when they won't say what they will cut. Personally I say cut spending in military but enough to support the people in the services while try to focus on education and health care. The Republicans keep talking about getting rid of health care that Obama signed but they don't understand that some people actually want this like myself since I don't have any health care to begin with.

I voted mostly Democratics. They deserve a chance just like the eight years that the Republicans and two years isn't enough. Personally I am not sure if I want anything to happen in the next two years in the eyes of the public so the public can see the the Republicans were all talk and no bite.

Local side, Stupid Rick Perry won so this means more cuts to education and higher education. Two things that are close to my heart.
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  #18  
Old 11-05-2010, 04:40 PM
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Default Re: Election Day 2010

Ugh. Michele Bachmann won the 6th district again. I very happy that we live in a country where someone as insane and homophobic as she is can live their dream and become of of the most powerful representatives in the House.
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  #19  
Old 11-06-2010, 03:37 AM
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Default Re: Election Day 2010

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Originally Posted by Kenny_C.002 View Post
That's the theory. The problem is that under your circumstances, cutting the taxes mean absolutely nothing to 99% of Americans, because the amount of tax you cut is so minuscule that you might as well have not. The main profiteers of this would be the top 1%, where a small cut like a 1% tax cut would actually have a big impact (instead of a couple hundred bucks for an average middle income family, they would gain an extra hundreds of thousands of dollars). That's the big flaw of tax cuts in it that you have a very big hit in your tax revenue for very little gain in spending power, since 99% of the population have barely any benefit.

Secondarily to that, you have to cut spending. Obviously cutting spending in a system already under strain and with very little budging on the politicians' own cutting of budgets (hypocritical, but is common practice) means that the cutting has to be on public services. Cutting public services when the public services themselves are under strain is suicidal, as exemplified by Ontario's huge budgeting blunder in the late 90's and early 2000's (where education AND hospital budget cuts led to both systems pretty much imploding on itself).
Significant budget cuts just aren't going to happen, imo. Democrats won't budge on social security and health care. Republicans won't budge on anything else. So while our spending remains stagnantly unsustainable at best, any tax cuts will out the government trillions of dollars that can't be gotten any other way.

Also, in addition to what Kenny said, approximately 47% of Americans don't pay any income taxes at all, which is what is mostly considered to be able to be cut (however, they pay plenty of other taxes). And tax cuts for the wealthy is just a ridiculous idea, the wealthy in America have seen the greatest fall in tax rates out of any income group over the last three decades already, while their income has risen so greatly that they are actually paying a greater total amount of taxes than before, despite that amount being a smaller percentage of their income.
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  #20  
Old 11-06-2010, 11:29 PM
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Default Re: Election Day 2010

Straight Republican ticket here.


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  #21  
Old 11-07-2010, 03:29 AM
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Default Re: Election Day 2010

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Originally Posted by Charizard Michelle View Post
Yeah. I don't like talking about politics but meh.

For me I am mad at both parties but I am mostly mad at the Republicans then Democratics. During the last two years the Republicans have been making it hard for the Democratics to do anything thus making it look like they weren't doing anything. Instead of trying to work with them they just acted like dead weight. Then they talk about cutting spending when they won't say what they will cut. Personally I say cut spending in military but enough to support the people in the services while try to focus on education and health care. The Republicans keep talking about getting rid of health care that Obama signed but they don't understand that some people actually want this like myself since I don't have any health care to begin with.

I voted mostly Democratics. They deserve a chance just like the eight years that the Republicans and two years isn't enough. Personally I am not sure if I want anything to happen in the next two years in the eyes of the public so the public can see the the Republicans were all talk and no bite.

Local side, Stupid Rick Perry won so this means more cuts to education and higher education. Two things that are close to my heart.
tbh, the Democrats don't deserve a chance. They had majority vote in both the House and the Senate. Obama could literally force every bill through if all of the Democrats vote his way. They didn't. They don't deserve a chance. On the flip side, the Republican platform also doesn't deserve a chance. So that leaves us with...?

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Significant budget cuts just aren't going to happen, imo. Democrats won't budge on social security and health care. Republicans won't budge on anything else. So while our spending remains stagnantly unsustainable at best, any tax cuts will out the government trillions of dollars that can't be gotten any other way.
My problem with Obama is that he budges too much to the Republicans and that the Democrats are in shambles because they lack focus. It's painfully obvious that the Republicans basically just want to shut the whole house down for 2 years, win the next election off the back of the Tea Party, and resume with status quo.

Take health care reform: the bill didn't do anything in practice. An increase of 10% for doctors who take medicare would STILL give a hefty 20% (down from 30%) hit in the doctor's paycheck. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know why that doesn't work.

Mandating on people to get insurance without a public option is like giving insurance companies money at the expense of the taxpayer. Under the current system, it's cheaper for everybody to be under single payer specifically because the insurance companies' huge margins are eating into people's expenses. It IS possible for this to work out, but Obama really needs to turn all insurance companies into non-profit "companies", and that in itself would be just as hard to get. Fortunately, that would basically be a very similar system to the German system (once they become non-profit). Unfortunately, I think it's just easier to go single-payer so that preventive medicine can do its job better, and so the US isn't so reliant on EMTALA (which in itself is an incredibly non-sensible law).

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Straight Republican ticket here.


Republican =/=
In fact, Democrat =/= either
I have very little understanding of why anyone would WANT to vote Republican other than "Gleen Beck said so", "Palin", "the church said so", or "I'm insane".
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  #22  
Old 11-07-2010, 12:03 PM
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Default Re: Election Day 2010

Obama deserves another term. It really kind of sucks that everyone wants to see you fail when you are basically the only hope for change. If Obama gets voted out of office for the Republicans, America can go burn in the fiery depths of debt, because us Asians will now take the lead and curbstomp in the global economy.

EDIT: Kenny, add "'cos my parents/family said so".

Also, because I feel like snarking so much, I'm just going to say that America is clearly not ready for the kind of change that Obama envisioned. There were many factors, yes, but most of the time none of the people who had the power to help bring the change wanted it to happen.
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  #23  
Old 11-07-2010, 06:57 PM
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Default Re: Election Day 2010

I have my reasons. I don't really feel like getting too involved in this discussion, though.

I just wanted to announce that I voted ALL REPUBLICAN.
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  #24  
Old 11-08-2010, 01:38 AM
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Default Re: Election Day 2010

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Originally Posted by MaskedJackal View Post
I have my reasons. I don't really feel like getting too involved in this discussion, though.

I just wanted to announce that I voted ALL REPUBLICAN.
Not something to state with such absolute pride. The thing to say with absolute pride is "I voted for the absolute best candidate," which nobody in this country can say because the primary voting system and the two-party system force us to choose between candidates chosen by the most politically active of the two parties, who in turn are the most partisan and most liberal/conservative (depending on the party) members. Meaning that for the most part, the people who are elected to office are not representative of the American people or the constituents. Independents are given no say in what candidates are put into place except in a few key states, and even there we're only given the ability to influence the primaries. We don't get non-aligned candidates to vote for who have any chance of winning, and that, ladies and gentlemen, is why the United States government sucks.
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  #25  
Old 11-08-2010, 03:17 AM
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Default Re: Election Day 2010

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Not something to state with such absolute pride. The thing to say with absolute pride is "I voted for the absolute best candidate," which nobody in this country can say because the primary voting system and the two-party system force us to choose between candidates chosen by the most politically active of the two parties, who in turn are the most partisan and most liberal/conservative (depending on the party) members. Meaning that for the most part, the people who are elected to office are not representative of the American people or the constituents. Independents are given no say in what candidates are put into place except in a few key states, and even there we're only given the ability to influence the primaries. We don't get non-aligned candidates to vote for who have any chance of winning, and that, ladies and gentlemen, is why the United States government sucks.
Remember Ross Perot, though; in the 1992 election the American people were so sick of partisan politics that they gave him nearly 20% of the vote. Independents do actually stand a chance in the right climate, and with both parties being so incredibly useless right now...you never know!

Honestly, though, your assessment is pretty much dead-on; the two-party system is stupid and the electoral college is even stupider. I really try not to get involved in politics too much just because of how depressing it is after analysis; right now I'm apathetic aside from my loathing of the Tea Party.
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  #26  
Old 11-08-2010, 05:20 PM
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Default Re: Election Day 2010

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Originally Posted by MaskedJackal View Post
I have my reasons. I don't really feel like getting too involved in this discussion, though.

I just wanted to announce that I voted ALL REPUBLICAN.
In general, whenever I've encountered someone saying that, they are generally unable to actually back up their statements. Of course, you're the exception, right? I've already stated that I'm neutral (i.e. don't like either), so I don't see why it matters, since I'll disagree with either Democrat or Republican. Ironically, a lot of Republican supporters still call me a dirty Liberal.

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Not something to state with such absolute pride. The thing to say with absolute pride is "I voted for the absolute best candidate," which nobody in this country can say because the primary voting system and the two-party system force us to choose between candidates chosen by the most politically active of the two parties, who in turn are the most partisan and most liberal/conservative (depending on the party) members. Meaning that for the most part, the people who are elected to office are not representative of the American people or the constituents. Independents are given no say in what candidates are put into place except in a few key states, and even there we're only given the ability to influence the primaries. We don't get non-aligned candidates to vote for who have any chance of winning, and that, ladies and gentlemen, is why the United States government sucks.
The absolute problem is the fact that media is controlled to some degree by not only the two parties, but also to the American culture of not really giving a damn. One must wonder just why people like Glenn Beck would even be remotely successful if not for the culture itself allowing for such a radical voice to be heard. That is also to say that the Democrats also have their own (less famous) pundits that does the same thing in the opposite manner, but in general I do believe that Glenn's faux-faith approach is more dangerous.

Heck, I don't know if the progressives are entirely right either, but they at least have some reason in stating that neither Democrat nor Republican are up for the job.

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Remember Ross Perot, though; in the 1992 election the American people were so sick of partisan politics that they gave him nearly 20% of the vote. Independents do actually stand a chance in the right climate, and with both parties being so incredibly useless right now...you never know!

Honestly, though, your assessment is pretty much dead-on; the two-party system is stupid and the electoral college is even stupider. I really try not to get involved in politics too much just because of how depressing it is after analysis; right now I'm apathetic aside from my loathing of the Tea Party.
Nader 2012! He might have an even higher number of votes this time! :D

It's unfortunate that the apathy we Canadians have for our really crappy politics is shared by many Americans now as well though. Then again, the Tea Party scares the heck out of me. I would suggest that if Palin wins in 2012, there would probably be a huge spike in emigration from the US...
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  #27  
Old 11-08-2010, 10:42 PM
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Default Re: Election Day 2010

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In general, whenever I've encountered someone saying that, they are generally unable to actually back up their statements. Of course, you're the exception, right? I've already stated that I'm neutral (i.e. don't like either), so I don't see why it matters, since I'll disagree with either Democrat or Republican. Ironically, a lot of Republican supporters still call me a dirty Liberal.
Republicans are far more extremist than Democrats, which is part of the reason I dislike them a lot more. Overall though, both parties have been moving towards the sides rather than the middle. Reagan would have been astonished at how single-minded today's Republicans are.
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  #28  
Old 11-09-2010, 02:54 AM
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Default Re: Election Day 2010

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It's unfortunate that the apathy we Canadians have for our really crappy politics is shared by many Americans now as well though. Then again, the Tea Party scares the heck out of me. I would suggest that if Palin wins in 2012, there would probably be a huge spike in emigration from the US...
It's more the younger generation than the older, at this point. The Obama election was incredible in how it brought the young voters out in droves; now, though, after Multiracial Jesus failed to solve everything by snapping his fingers, the younger generation has gone right back to not giving a damn. Meanwhile, (generally) older Republican voters just got really angry all of a sudden (probably "WAAAAH WE'RE NOT IN POWER ANYMORE, TYRANNY" and scary people like Beck and Limbaugh and Palin feeding the fire, if I had to take a guess) and went out to "take America back."

Incidentally, if Palin won 2012, I'd start looking into my out-of-country college options quite quickly. Probably won't happen, though; she's disliked by moderates of all parties and loathed by liberals in particular, so a majority seems impossible.

Hey, Canadian politics, huh? I've heard a little bit about that "so many parties and they all suck" system, but I gotta admit I'm curious about the hows and whys of the whole thing.
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Old 11-09-2010, 08:17 PM
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Default Re: Election Day 2010

Democrats are the ones that wanted this "Health Care" Bill. If you don't get health insurance you WILL go to jail. Sounds like the Democrats WANT a totalitarian government. Republicans are the ones against the health care bill. Do you want to go to jail for not having any health insurance? If you do, go vote for the Democrats and ruin this country. Having this bill WILL ruin this country. Obama doing nothing but talking about making this country better, but yet he is doing NOTHING about it.

This is how I feel.
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  #30  
Old 11-09-2010, 09:30 PM
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Default Re: Election Day 2010

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Originally Posted by Lusankya View Post
Republicans are far more extremist than Democrats, which is part of the reason I dislike them a lot more. Overall though, both parties have been moving towards the sides rather than the middle. Reagan would have been astonished at how single-minded today's Republicans are.
That is true. Obama is quite moderate relative to our political structure. He leans closer to our Conservatives than our Liberals.

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It's more the younger generation than the older, at this point. The Obama election was incredible in how it brought the young voters out in droves; now, though, after Multiracial Jesus failed to solve everything by snapping his fingers, the younger generation has gone right back to not giving a damn. Meanwhile, (generally) older Republican voters just got really angry all of a sudden (probably "WAAAAH WE'RE NOT IN POWER ANYMORE, TYRANNY" and scary people like Beck and Limbaugh and Palin feeding the fire, if I had to take a guess) and went out to "take America back."
It's unfortunate, since in general the younger population holds more power than the rest of the population specifically because they don't vote. I agree though, since this whole economic situation really isn't something that Obama can solve. It isn't something that anybody can solve, really, since the problem is deep. Ironically, I do think the Republicans would have drove it more to the ground than Obama.

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Incidentally, if Palin won 2012, I'd start looking into my out-of-country college options quite quickly. Probably won't happen, though; she's disliked by moderates of all parties and loathed by liberals in particular, so a majority seems impossible.
Never say never. However, what is true is that the Republicans have gone ahead in these elections and Palin's the figurehead of Tea Party that's backing the Republicans.

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Hey, Canadian politics, huh? I've heard a little bit about that "so many parties and they all suck" system, but I gotta admit I'm curious about the hows and whys of the whole thing.
Yeah pretty much all of them are incompetent hypocrites. It's a mess with our minority governments, since nothing really gets done with everybody bickering amongst themselves.

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Democrats are the ones that wanted this "Health Care" Bill. If you don't get health insurance you WILL go to jail. Sounds like the Democrats WANT a totalitarian government. Republicans are the ones against the health care bill. Do you want to go to jail for not having any health insurance? If you do, go vote for the Democrats and ruin this country. Having this bill WILL ruin this country. Obama doing nothing but talking about making this country better, but yet he is doing NOTHING about it.

This is how I feel.
^Typical answer a Tea Party child is fed by their parents. It's not how you feel, it's how your parents feel and is feeding you this as though it is fact. I don't blame you for not having an opinion on this yet, because you're young, though. Then again, it's highly unlikely you'll actually start thinking about this more deeply than "listen to Glenn Beck" anyway by the looks of it. I again can't really blame you, since your society groom you this way. It's like how I was brought up in a family that is completely devoid of political affiliations. I had to find my own political voice specifically because my parents didn't feed me one, and I often found it through my teachers in high school and university, which takes a more moderate and humanistic approach.

The bill's been in action for a while now. Has it affected you? No. Exactly. The problem with the bill is not that it changes things. The problem with the bill is that it changed nothing. It was in fact a victory for the Republicans. If Obama just went with universal health care in the first place, this wouldn't have mattered. He would have been able to force the bill through the house and senate without Republican input. He didn't. He paid for it.

I used to think that this could be a good stepping stone to a solution, but Obama doesn't have the balls to take it to its natural conclusion. That is to change all insurance companies into non-profit organizations and forcing them to become as efficient as the German sick funds (their form of insurance) are, and the Germans are about 4 TIMES more efficient at insurance.

Also, totalitarianism has nothing to do with how the health care bill works (it sounds nothing like it). In fact, it is very different in how it works. Secondarily, the irony here is that by jailing people without insurance, one actually effectively give them insurance in the form of prison (as they get free health care). One can argue that they would potentially have better lives in jail than out of jail. Not that it matters, since you can't jail 2 million people.

Finally, I'd like the point out that health care is a human right according to the declaration of human rights. So yes, even poor people are entitled to health care. The only thing different is that I've set my bar at the prevention level rather than the current American "treat the dying" level that EMTALA offers. Again the difference here is that EMTALA means hospitals have to treat end-game diseases that can be caught earlier and treated more cheaply than when the people actually present to the hospital. This actually helps drive up costs of health care as these hospitals need to get their money from somewhere to cover for the incredible costs the uninsured racks up. Yes, that is why you are paying some 60% more GDP/capita than any other country in existence with a decrease in overall population health. That is, American hospitals are great...if you can pay for them.
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