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  #46  
Old 05-30-2010, 03:49 PM
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Default Re: Your Thoughts on War on Terror

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Originally Posted by burningzepp08 View Post
I personally think that War is a good thing(If your side is winning). Why? Because it's extremely profitable.

^ I'm sure that's a dead giveaway that I'm from the US.


Terror is..well, bad i guess. I truly don't care really. Why? Not afraid really. And no, I'm not trying to play that "internet tough guy" role, I'm just clearly stating, and with all honesty, that I don't care and that I'm not afraid. I do have to say, mainly it's probably because I'm not living in a place where it's terror-magnet or a war is going on. Glad to live in the US. (Please, spare me the negativity on the US, i don't care)
You do realise it isn't profitable at all?

Troop's wages + Cost of ordinance + AID you have to pay to those you've jsut blown up = a heafty price.

It cost around 8billion for the assault on Iraq.


Nationalist? LOL, No. I think my country is a peice of crap.
Racist? Definatley No, you used to "my best friend is black argument", showing you're infact a racist dear friend.

And American troops are very poorly trained in comparison to countrys such as Britain where you need alot of qualifications and it takes a long long training period before you even see battle.

Last edited by Masami; 05-30-2010 at 03:51 PM.
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  #47  
Old 05-30-2010, 04:11 PM
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Default Re: Your Thoughts on War on Terror

The British definitely train for far longer than the Americans, but I don't know much as to the quality of said training. The reason the US doesn't train for nearly as long is because the US military is enormous compared to the British, about 1.5 million vs 200,000 active soldiers (even if you take the size of the military as a percentage of total population, the US has 60% more troops per population than the UK) , plus the US's equipment is almost universally better and more expensive.

The direct cost of the Iraq War to the US is currently about $700 billion (dunno where Masami got his figure, if it only cost $8 billion it'd be very profitable). Adding indirect costs and the fact that the loans used to pay the war need to be paid back with interest, the total cost of the war is looking to be about three trillion dollars by 2017. To put this in perspective, the US national debt is currently about 13 trillion dollars, so if the Iraq War was never fought, we'd have 23% less of the national debt to pay off.

So yeah. Iraq is a giant money black hole, with no real foreseeable monetary payback in the near future.
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Last edited by Lusankya; 05-30-2010 at 04:17 PM.
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  #48  
Old 05-30-2010, 05:36 PM
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Default Re: Your Thoughts on War on Terror

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Originally Posted by Lusankya View Post
The British definitely train for far longer than the Americans, but I don't know much as to the quality of said training. The reason the US doesn't train for nearly as long is because the US military is enormous compared to the British, about 1.5 million vs 200,000 active soldiers (even if you take the size of the military as a percentage of total population, the US has 60% more troops per population than the UK) , plus the US's equipment is almost universally better and more expensive.

The direct cost of the Iraq War to the US is currently about $700 billion (dunno where Masami got his figure, if it only cost $8 billion it'd be very profitable). Adding indirect costs and the fact that the loans used to pay the war need to be paid back with interest, the total cost of the war is looking to be about three trillion dollars by 2017. To put this in perspective, the US national debt is currently about 13 trillion dollars, so if the Iraq War was never fought, we'd have 23% less of the national debt to pay off.

So yeah. Iraq is a giant money black hole, with no real foreseeable monetary payback in the near future.
$8Billion was the initial day one assault, nothing that has occoured later on.

And right now I believe britain clases our army as the 'proffesional' army as it was before WW1, where only a 'man of a good caliber' was allowed entry.
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  #49  
Old 05-30-2010, 06:22 PM
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Default Re: Your Thoughts on War on Terror

That's just an excuse for keeping the army small. Truth be told, the extra training doesn't make the British army vastly superior anyways. Case in point: Between February 5 and June 24 in 2007, the British military death rate was 50% higher than the American's. I think that, after a certain point, the extra training becomes less important than just plain luck. You can train as much as you want, but that won't make you any more bulletproof. All that kid down the street aiming at you with a rifle has to do is be a little lucky and you're dead regardless of how much training you have.
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Dali: "I know what the picture should be ... We take a duck and put some dynamite in its derriere. When the duck explodes, I jump and you take the picture."
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  #50  
Old 05-30-2010, 06:35 PM
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Default Re: Your Thoughts on War on Terror

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Originally Posted by Lusankya View Post
That's just an excuse for keeping the army small. Truth be told, the extra training doesn't make the British army vastly superior anyways. Case in point: Between February 5 and June 24 in 2007, the British military death rate was 50% higher than the American's. I think that, after a certain point, the extra training becomes less important than just plain luck. You can train as much as you want, but that won't make you any more bulletproof. All that kid down the street aiming at you with a rifle has to do is be a little lucky and you're dead regardless of how much training you have.
I agree, I think it's just keeping military wages, although our goverment has pledge a 100% increase to them, which I find shocking.

Saurdi Arabia ends up paying alot of the US Middle Eastern debt anyway, they paid 6billion of the 8billion I mentioned.
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  #51  
Old 05-30-2010, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: Your Thoughts on War on Terror

Saudi Arabia's entire 2008 GDP can't cover the direct cost of the Iraq War O_o They don't pay that much.
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  #52  
Old 05-30-2010, 06:47 PM
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Default Re: Your Thoughts on War on Terror

Hmm, let's give my thoughts. I don't know who was the cause of 9/11, I'm assuming it's some terrorist group that's been running through Iraq and Afghanistan. Can anybody clear up what these wars and terrorism is all about? I'm from Iraq and I don't know if I want the war in Iraq to stop or continue because I don't know it's purpose, as with Afghanistan. Can someone clear it up and give an explanation for me so I can give thoughts that I'm sure about?
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  #53  
Old 05-30-2010, 07:02 PM
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Default Re: Your Thoughts on War on Terror

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Originally Posted by Dylan View Post
Hmm, let's give my thoughts. I don't know who was the cause of 9/11, I'm assuming it's some terrorist group that's been running through Iraq and Afghanistan. Can anybody clear up what these wars and terrorism is all about? I'm from Iraq and I don't know if I want the war in Iraq to stop or continue because I don't know it's purpose, as with Afghanistan. Can someone clear it up and give an explanation for me so I can give thoughts that I'm sure about?
Al Quida.

They're an extremist militant group, they're believed to be the cause for the 9/11 bombings which involved men mainly from Saudi Arabia.
Al Quida were believed to be hiding in Afghanistan/Pakistan, Iraq was invaded because you were believed to have the means of develop weapons of mass destruction, Nukes.
It has recently been reveiled there was not enough evidence to justify a large scale military operation like the ones that took place, hence we are in Iraq for really no reason.

The current justification is that Sadam had to be stopped.

Afghanistan was invaded because they had Osama Bin Laden, the leader and mastermind behind 9/11, but refused to hand him over. The Qur'an teaches that all Muslims should treat their guests upmost and properly (not in those words). Hence the Taliban refused to hand over Osama because he was a guest in their country.

Osama Bin Laden comes from an extremely rich, political family. Most of his family are on a first-name bases with Senators, Top buisness men and Congress. Atleast they were.

Hope this helps abit. :)

EDIT: Lus they don't pay that much, but the US leeches what they can out of their 'ally'. Although they did pay 6 of the 8 billion for an attack.
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  #54  
Old 05-30-2010, 07:22 PM
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Default Re: Your Thoughts on War on Terror

Course we do, nations don't have friends, only interests.

Also, it's spelled "Al Qaeda". Al Quida is almost never used as a romanization of القاعدة‎.

Iraq was invaded under the belief that Saddam Hussein was developing weapons of mass destruction and was planning on attacking the US via a terrorist proxy. This was eventually revealed to be utter crap. I personally believe Iraq was invaded because Bush wanted to promote democracy and hopefully stability in the Middle East by defeating a dictator that had invaded surrounding countries multiple times. Al Qaeda was also present in force in Iraq, another impetus for invasion.

Also, Masami, the Taliban didn't turn Bin Laden over because they wanted him to succeed and actively helped him, not because the Quran says to treat your guests well.
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Dali: "I know what the picture should be ... We take a duck and put some dynamite in its derriere. When the duck explodes, I jump and you take the picture."
Halsman: "Don't forget that we are in America. We will be put in prison if we start exploding ducks."
Dali: "You're right. Let's take some cats and splash them with water."
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  #55  
Old 05-30-2010, 07:25 PM
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Default Re: Your Thoughts on War on Terror

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Originally Posted by Lusankya View Post
Course we do, nations don't have friends, only interests.

Also, it's spelled "Al Qaeda". Al Quida is almost never used as a romanization of القاعدة‎.

Iraq was invaded under the belief that Saddam Hussein was developing weapons of mass destruction and was planning on attacking the US via a terrorist proxy. This was eventually revealed to be utter crap. I personally believe Iraq was invaded because Bush wanted to promote democracy and hopefully stability in the Middle East by defeating a dictator that had invaded surrounding countries multiple times. Al Qaeda was also present in force in Iraq, another impetus for invasion.

Also, Masami, the Taliban didn't turn Bin Laden over because they wanted him to succeed and actively helped him, not because the Quran says to treat your guests well.
The reason they gave is that is that they are told to treat their guests well, they may well of wanted him to succed, even though their relations with the US were fairly stable at the time, It's still possible.
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  #56  
Old 05-30-2010, 07:27 PM
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Default Re: Your Thoughts on War on Terror

Well we are pulling out of Iraq in 2011 so that's always a plus but I think we'll be staying in Afghanistan for much longer. I don't think there is much or any hope to stabilize Afghanistan and its government. When we go down in the southern region and we go into people's valleys and villages and we want to help and do all these things for them and they just dont want us there. Imagine if a bunch of foreign troops came into your neighboorhood and wanted to help build roads, schools, hospitals ect. Even if we go in with the best intentions the fact is the people in those rural valley areas don't want us there. They arn't savages they just don't want foreigners telling them what to do, even if it is helping them. Its like if you go to a conservative or liberal state and build roads and hospitals and schools, they won't change their mind on abortion.

Not to mention Karzai is not an honest or good partner to work with in Afghanistan. Not to mention his brother is a drug lord that has been telling the CIA to kill other drug lords that he say is Taliban/AQ. If we had a better partner and we weren't fighting people in their own villages i wouldnt be so opposed to this war.
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  #57  
Old 05-30-2010, 07:29 PM
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Default Re: Your Thoughts on War on Terror

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Originally Posted by KOR View Post
Well we are pulling out of Iraq in 2011 so that's always a plus but I think we'll be staying in Afghanistan for much longer. I don't think there is much or any hope to stabilize Afghanistan and its government. When we go down in the southern region and we go into people's valleys and villages and we want to help and do all these things for them and they just dont want us there. Imagine if a bunch of foreign troops came into your neighboorhood and wanted to help build roads, schools, hospitals ect. Even if we go in with the best intentions the fact is the people in those rural valley areas don't want us there. They arn't savages they just don't want foreigners telling them what to do, even if it is helping them. Its like if you go to a conservative or liberal state and build roads and hospitals and schools, they won't change their mind on abortion.

Not to mention Karzai is not an honest or good partner to work with in Afghanistan. Not to mention his brother is a drug lord that has been telling the CIA to kill other drug lords that he say is Taliban/AQ. If we had a better partner and we weren't fighting people in their own villages i wouldnt be so opposed to this war.
A) You won't pull out in 2011, an excuse or situation will arrise.
B) America appointed Karzai, he was a long term friend of Bush's.
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  #58  
Old 05-30-2010, 07:52 PM
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Default Re: Your Thoughts on War on Terror

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Originally Posted by Masami View Post
The reason they gave is that is that they are told to treat their guests well, they may well of wanted him to succed, even though their relations with the US were fairly stable at the time, It's still possible.
"They reason they gave"? Do you believe Hitler's reason for the Holocaust, too?

US-Taliban relations were strained practically from the beginning. Although the US supported the Taliban initially in hopes it would restore order to Afghanistan, it promptly stopped with the Taliban started killing civilians. When the US launched missiles at terrorist camps during the Clinton administration the Taliban openly condemned us.

Karzai isn't perfect, but he's better than the alternative of having a new unknown come into power.
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Dali: "I know what the picture should be ... We take a duck and put some dynamite in its derriere. When the duck explodes, I jump and you take the picture."
Halsman: "Don't forget that we are in America. We will be put in prison if we start exploding ducks."
Dali: "You're right. Let's take some cats and splash them with water."
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