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  #1  
Old 12-04-2009, 04:09 PM
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Default Blackwater

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Opinions? Scared yet?
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  #2  
Old 12-05-2009, 12:46 PM
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Default Re: Blackwater

I have no problem with the concept of PMCs, but it's ridiculous that the way governmental laws all over the world (There's a company in the UK called Aegis who have recieved similar criticism, albeit in a far smaller scale) allow them to act the way they do now. There needs to be some serious reviewing of laws regarding PMCs including direct miltary involvment.
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  #3  
Old 12-05-2009, 03:13 PM
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Default Re: Blackwater

The problem with private militaries is simply the fact that it is privatized. There is no transparency within any private military and others, and there is no way to govern the actions they can take due to their international nature. It means that Blackwater has free reign on basically anything they want to do. One cannot argue that they need both transparency and accountability if they accept that a private military is, in fact, ok. The current laws simply reflect that sentiment. On the contrary, the army has much more transparency about their actions (barring any military secrets), and have strict moral codes and standards to abide by.

They also have no obligation to any particular country that employs them outside of contractual agreements. On the surface this seems fine and dandy, as long as the US continues to employ them. A contractual agreement is easily broken when you aren't held accountable for your company's actions. They can just as easily turn on the country they employ. Case in point, Blackwater is probably more volatile than when Bush was in charge specifically because Obama is currently in charge: a man who is in many ways against their "righteous Christian beliefs".
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  #4  
Old 12-05-2009, 03:42 PM
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Default Re: Blackwater

I think a corporate military is just a ridiculous idea in the first place. Government's really shouldn't hire out a tenth of what they do, and especially not regarding military actions. It's inherently dangerous. They owe no loyalty except to money.
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  #5  
Old 12-07-2009, 06:42 AM
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Default Re: Blackwater

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny_C.002 View Post
The problem with private militaries is simply the fact that it is privatized. There is no transparency within any private military and others, and there is no way to govern the actions they can take due to their international nature. It means that Blackwater has free reign on basically anything they want to do. One cannot argue that they need both transparency and accountability if they accept that a private military is, in fact, ok. The current laws simply reflect that sentiment. On the contrary, the army has much more transparency about their actions (barring any military secrets), and have strict moral codes and standards to abide by.

They also have no obligation to any particular country that employs them outside of contractual agreements. On the surface this seems fine and dandy, as long as the US continues to employ them. A contractual agreement is easily broken when you aren't held accountable for your company's actions. They can just as easily turn on the country they employ. Case in point, Blackwater is probably more volatile than when Bush was in charge specifically because Obama is currently in charge: a man who is in many ways against their "righteous Christian beliefs".
It's funny how it all goes back to politics.

I have a sinking feeling of what this truly is, *shakes head* and I though we are suppose to learn from our mistakes.
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  #6  
Old 12-07-2009, 06:49 AM
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Default Re: Blackwater

Partly the reason why the Roman empire fell. Outsourcing your defenses isn't a good idea...
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  #7  
Old 12-08-2009, 02:46 AM
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Default Re: Blackwater

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Originally Posted by ScubatheDiverman View Post
It's funny how it all goes back to politics.

I have a sinking feeling of what this truly is, *shakes head* and I though we are suppose to learn from our mistakes.
Whenever there is a power relation or money going on, it's going to be about politics. That's an unavoidable situation. I'm honestly not sure what else I can make of this situation. It is rumored that not all of the Congress were aware of Blackwater under the Bush administration, which seems plausible under the circumstances at that time. What I find frightening is that Blackwater is literally above the law due to its corporate status. What's scarier is the number of people who support Blackwater.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaRkUmBrEoN View Post
Partly the reason why the Roman empire fell. Outsourcing your defenses isn't a good idea...
QFT. I honestly think it's a stupid move by Bush, but then again I have a feeling that he's in on the profits somehow as well. Cheney sure did.

By the way, Hitler and Mousselini both used paramilitary as a method to secure their power. o_O

Last edited by Kenny_C.002; 12-08-2009 at 02:59 AM.
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  #8  
Old 12-08-2009, 02:58 AM
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Default Re: Blackwater

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny_C.002 View Post
Whenever there is a power relation or money going on, it's going to be about politics. That's an unavoidable situation. I'm honestly not sure what else I can make of this situation. It is rumored that not all of the Congress were aware of Blackwater under the Bush administration, which seems plausible under the circumstances at that time. What I find frightening is that Blackwater is literally above the law due to its corporate status.



QFT. I honestly think it's a stupid move by Bush, but then again I have a feeling that he's in on the profits somehow as well. Cheney sure did.

By the way, Hitler and Mousselini both used paramilitary as a method to secure their power. o_O
Oh noez, Emperor Obama is coming! *ominous music plays*

On a more serious note, private militaries just don't make any sense. I dunno about you, but outsourcing our nuclear submarines doesn't seem a good idea to me. Why should ground troops be any different?
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  #9  
Old 12-08-2009, 03:05 AM
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Default Re: Blackwater

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lusankya View Post
Oh noez, Emperor Obama is coming! *ominous music plays*

On a more serious note, private militaries just don't make any sense. I dunno about you, but outsourcing our nuclear submarines doesn't seem a good idea to me. Why should ground troops be any different?
It's a demonstration of the power of a paramilitary due to its status of being "above the law" when I talk about Hitler. This is not implying that Obama or Bush, or anyone would be using this kind of coercive power. Secondly, the support of Blackwater amongst Republicans is very frightening. It's almost as if everything is converging together, with stuff like Jesus Camp, Blackwater, and the like that all point to Evangelical power. And they make up a big voting block to boot.

I agree that outsourcing military doesn't make any inherent sense, but the profit is good.
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  #10  
Old 12-08-2009, 03:06 AM
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Default Re: Blackwater

I find privatization of anything governmental absolutely ridiculous, particularly things like the military.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny_C.002 View Post
What I find frightening is that Blackwater is literally above the law due to its corporate status.
Actually, while the company themselves can't be held accountable if their members are guilty of war crimes and someone actually takes the initiative to bring them in, they can be tried for war crimes in the International Court of Justice. The problem is, the jurisdiction they're under is Blackwater.

Side note, Erik Prince once again proves the eternal rule: Eric with a c, good. Erik with a k, evil.
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  #11  
Old 12-08-2009, 05:40 PM
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Default Re: Blackwater

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khajmer View Post
Actually, while the company themselves can't be held accountable if their members are guilty of war crimes and someone actually takes the initiative to bring them in, they can be tried for war crimes in the International Court of Justice. The problem is, the jurisdiction they're under is Blackwater.
That is exactly the same as my original statement. >.>
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  #12  
Old 01-01-2010, 05:42 PM
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Default Re: Blackwater

PMCs and Mercenaries are nothing new. The Romans used them long before their empire collapsed. The Byzantines had their Cataphracts, the Ottoman Empire had their Janissaries. Japanese had ronin samurai and many full samurai warriors were mercenaries. Various German states in the Holy Roman Empire had landsknechts and Hungarian/Eastern European hussars. The British Empire were known for their use of mercenaries in battle.

And why must only fascists be known for their use of paramilitary? What about Mao and his Red Guards, or the Viet Cong (now those were some nasty fellers right there) and the Khmer Rouge?

However, mercenaries and PMCs aren't usually heavily armed with nuclear assets. Ideally, PMCs should only consist of infantry, helicopters and lighter armor (like an LAV or an M2 Bradley)
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