Member List
Calendar
F.A.Q.
Search
Log Out
Pokemon Forum - Pokemon Elite 2000  
 

Go Back   Pokemon Forum - Pokemon Elite 2000 » Other Boards » Discussion

Discussion This is for discussion about current events (news), issues, politics, and any other topics of serious discussion. For more casual talk, go to the Other Chat board. Proper sentences, spelling, and grammar is especially strict in this board.


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 02-20-2009, 02:47 PM
Snow Fairy Sugar's Avatar
Snow Fairy Sugar Offline
Elite Trainer (Level 5)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Land of the Blue Roses
Posts: 5,865
Send a message via AIM to Snow Fairy Sugar Send a message via MSN to Snow Fairy Sugar Send a message via Yahoo to Snow Fairy Sugar
Default Obama's Stimulus Package: Direct Translation

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...0,324205.story

Eight to 10 dollars a week? How is that supposed to stimulate the economy?

Experts say a little goes a long way. Maybe you help keep a restaurant open by eating out when you otherwise wouldn't. Or perhaps you buy a pair of shoes you otherwise wouldn't (albeit not Manolo Blahniks).

The bottom line, proponents say, is that money will flow into the economy that wouldn't have before.

Why am I not getting a check directly from the IRS, like last year?

Because most people didn't spend that money. They saved it -- which did little to boost the economy.

------------------------------------

So apparently, his economic plan, and his claim of being middle class oriented...was a straight out lie, or the newspaper mistranslated. But the message is clear. Don't save for your own benefit, or even at all instead, spend more and keep spending to support Wall Street and major firms.

What kind of government/person will say "Saving is wrong"? Coming from a guy who talks about Middle Class...for once in this entire discussion board, I'll say Wunschkind(and everyone else) was right to mistrust Obama(about his economic policy).

Extra Footnote: While Obama's policy appears to be Keynesian by nature(What FDR and other bozos did in the 1930s) the government spent its money, and didn't tempt the people to. So in that respect, its different.
__________________
  #2  
Old 02-20-2009, 03:10 PM
Starkipraggy's Avatar
Starkipraggy Offline
Elite Trainer (Level 3)
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Gundam Porygon ZZ
Posts: 3,151
Send a message via MSN to Starkipraggy
Default Re: Obama's Stimulus Package: Direct Translation

I was under the impression that spending is beneficial for the economy. The production of consumer goods would create jobs while the consumers get a higher standard of living out of it. Everyone wins.

The economy can be analogised to water cycles. If water remains in one place too long, it stagnates and becomes worthless, as with the Dead Sea. Money has to flow in order to keep the economy running, and while saving is a good thing, if everyone saves and cut spending, less money would flow, which would be bad in a time when no money is flowing in the first place.

Besides, the extra 8 to 10 dollars is government provided, so basically they're telling you to go out and buy stuff. If I recall correctly, buying stuff is an immediate boon than saving, which merely stabilises the economy.
__________________


Mons are here though

私はグレダーです--I am a Grader
  #3  
Old 02-20-2009, 03:50 PM
Snow Fairy Sugar's Avatar
Snow Fairy Sugar Offline
Elite Trainer (Level 5)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Land of the Blue Roses
Posts: 5,865
Send a message via AIM to Snow Fairy Sugar Send a message via MSN to Snow Fairy Sugar Send a message via Yahoo to Snow Fairy Sugar
Default Re: Obama's Stimulus Package: Direct Translation

The problem where the recession started was:

A] People had money to spend. They overspent, drew whatever little money they had out of banks to spend more.

B] Riding on wave of euphoria, everyone was happy. Banks were starting to lose money since people had nothing they wanted to/were able to put in the banks.

C] Around the time banks started to collapse. People also started to lose whatever they had. And all three crashed together.

What happened in the 1930's was- The Congress/Government told the people to save money. If banks have money, more money will be able to flow into the system. People will know the value of money and we'll have a more moderate but standard and stronger economy. The Government undertook spending- and started a number of projects and the economy recovered.

There's a lot of ways we can bring about a boost in the economy read this.

It will take more than a trillion dollars to upgrade roads, bridges, mass transit, airports, schools, dams, water purity, and waste disposal facilities in the next century.

School Buildings literally are crumbling; more than half of U.S. roadways are in substandard condition; airports will face gridlock by 2004; and tens of thousands of people become ill each year from contaminated drinking water. Accordingly, it is fair to say the nation's infrastructure is in pretty bad shape. Without substantial help, the situation is not going to get any better.


^ Government should undertake those things instead of...stupid things like a war. But then, being 11 Trillion or so Dollars into debt, the government can't. So make the people spend. =P

Does an economy have to be in 100% euphoria all the time? Such recessions actually "Prune" the economy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...-Stiglitz.html
__________________
  #4  
Old 02-20-2009, 04:04 PM
Starkipraggy's Avatar
Starkipraggy Offline
Elite Trainer (Level 3)
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Gundam Porygon ZZ
Posts: 3,151
Send a message via MSN to Starkipraggy
Default Re: Obama's Stimulus Package: Direct Translation

The banks are really corrupt as it is though. Maybe we should just abandon the concept of private banks and save our money with the government instead, such that the country's reserves are literally our own reserves.

I would think that Obama's plan is better, simply because if the citizens are asked to save and the government do the spending, obviously they spend on infrastructure, which is basically a lot of construction work. Now, not everybody can or is willing to be a construction worker. What happens to those people? Whereas if you ask citizens to spend, thereby creating a demand for consumer products and thus companies would want to supply it, then a wider range of jobs would be created, since many parties can be involved with any one particular consumer good. Besides, you're being sponsored to spend an extra 8 to 10 dollars a day. Why not? The money's not yours, and you get something in return, and it goes a little way towards improving your life. Win-win situation?
__________________


Mons are here though

私はグレダーです--I am a Grader
  #5  
Old 02-20-2009, 04:24 PM
Snow Fairy Sugar's Avatar
Snow Fairy Sugar Offline
Elite Trainer (Level 5)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Land of the Blue Roses
Posts: 5,865
Send a message via AIM to Snow Fairy Sugar Send a message via MSN to Snow Fairy Sugar Send a message via Yahoo to Snow Fairy Sugar
Default Re: Obama's Stimulus Package: Direct Translation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starkipraggy View Post
The banks are really corrupt as it is though. Maybe we should just abandon the concept of private banks and save our money with the government instead, such that the country's reserves are literally our own reserves.

I would think that Obama's plan is better, simply because if the citizens are asked to save and the government do the spending, obviously they spend on infrastructure, which is basically a lot of construction work. Now, not everybody can or is willing to be a construction worker. What happens to those people? Whereas if you ask citizens to spend, thereby creating a demand for consumer products and thus companies would want to supply it, then a wider range of jobs would be created, since many parties can be involved with any one particular consumer good. Besides, you're being sponsored to spend an extra 8 to 10 dollars a day. Why not? The money's not yours, and you get something in return, and it goes a little way towards improving your life. Win-win situation?
(About the First Pararaph) The system is, or was, known as the "Gold and Precious Metals" standard, where the value of the economy depended on the nations reserve of precious metals.

It was abolished by the Federal reserve act in 1913, along with a number of acts, where money is now considered as...paper that has no actual backing or value, and only the value of the dollar is decided by the people who control the Federal Reserve(private sector)...etc etc.

And apart from this, there're a number of job opportunities from Infrastructure- if you build airports, schools, bridges...provide other incentives for working, healthcare, restructuring a number of things.

Anyway, why can't the Government be the spenders and revive the economy (Like it was done in 1935) rather than going back to the vicious cycle? Take the person off the ventilator, make him choke, put him back on the ventilator, remove it..
__________________
  #6  
Old 02-20-2009, 04:51 PM
Judge Dredd's Avatar
Judge Dredd Offline
Master of Shadows
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Gold 3438-5902-8014
Posts: 33,107
Default Re: Obama's Stimulus Package: Direct Translation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Fairy Sugar View Post
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...0,324205.story

Eight to 10 dollars a week? How is that supposed to stimulate the economy?

Experts say a little goes a long way. Maybe you help keep a restaurant open by eating out when you otherwise wouldn't. Or perhaps you buy a pair of shoes you otherwise wouldn't (albeit not Manolo Blahniks).

The bottom line, proponents say, is that money will flow into the economy that wouldn't have before.

Why am I not getting a check directly from the IRS, like last year?

Because most people didn't spend that money. They saved it -- which did little to boost the economy.

------------------------------------

So apparently, his economic plan, and his claim of being middle class oriented...was a straight out lie, or the newspaper mistranslated. But the message is clear. Don't save for your own benefit, or even at all instead, spend more and keep spending to support Wall Street and major firms.

What kind of government/person will say "Saving is wrong"? Coming from a guy who talks about Middle Class...for once in this entire discussion board, I'll say Wunschkind(and everyone else) was right to mistrust Obama(about his economic policy).

Extra Footnote: While Obama's policy appears to be Keynesian by nature(What FDR and other bozos did in the 1930s) the government spent its money, and didn't tempt the people to. So in that respect, its different.


do you ever have a clue as to what your talking about or do you just like spouting garbage. how can you expect anyone to take your "translation". Do you have a job, do you live on your own. Do you do anything at all to give back the country other site around like one of those youtube people with your bloggs talking about how everything is bad.

First off, IF you have a job, 10 dollars a week adds up to 520 bucks which can cover a portion of rent if not all for the average lower middle class apartment renters. So thank you mister president, for doing that.

Also in the real world 3.5 million jobs is alot of people that can either keep there job and or start working again. This keeps families alive, people having to sell everythign and work off of the little amount they get for not having job.

Last, but really not least ....your saying spending is wrong....do you know how this country works? or are you from somewhere else....because if you are then i would understand how you dont have a clue as the importance of money being circualted....people shouldnt have saved the money from last year. In your eyes you think its support some big firm or company but those companies are the ones that are employing everyone. Its a direct connection....
__________________
VPP

Dragonair: 33054
Dragonite: 33129
Level100: 33264

GCEA Link Page Pokemon Evolution List

  #7  
Old 02-20-2009, 05:19 PM
SalvadorDalí's Avatar
SalvadorDalí Offline
Experienced Trainer
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Figueres, Spain
Posts: 172
Send a message via AIM to SalvadorDalí
Default Re: Obama's Stimulus Package: Direct Translation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Fairy Sugar View Post
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...0,324205.story

Eight to 10 dollars a week? How is that supposed to stimulate the economy?

Experts say a little goes a long way. Maybe you help keep a restaurant open by eating out when you otherwise wouldn't. Or perhaps you buy a pair of shoes you otherwise wouldn't (albeit not Manolo Blahniks).

The bottom line, proponents say, is that money will flow into the economy that wouldn't have before.

Why am I not getting a check directly from the IRS, like last year?

Because most people didn't spend that money. They saved it -- which did little to boost the economy.

------------------------------------

So apparently, his economic plan, and his claim of being middle class oriented...was a straight out lie, or the newspaper mistranslated. But the message is clear. Don't save for your own benefit, or even at all instead, spend more and keep spending to support Wall Street and major firms.

What kind of government/person will say "Saving is wrong"? Coming from a guy who talks about Middle Class...for once in this entire discussion board, I'll say Wunschkind(and everyone else) was right to mistrust Obama(about his economic policy).

Extra Footnote: While Obama's policy appears to be Keynesian by nature(What FDR and other bozos did in the 1930s) the government spent its money, and didn't tempt the people to. So in that respect, its different.
I'd like to point out that Obama's original legislation was changed a lot by the Senate and House. So it isn't really just his fault. You'd have to blame the majority of the Senate and House.
__________________
  #8  
Old 02-20-2009, 09:11 PM
Snow Fairy Sugar's Avatar
Snow Fairy Sugar Offline
Elite Trainer (Level 5)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Land of the Blue Roses
Posts: 5,865
Send a message via AIM to Snow Fairy Sugar Send a message via MSN to Snow Fairy Sugar Send a message via Yahoo to Snow Fairy Sugar
Default Re: Obama's Stimulus Package: Direct Translation

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreal Shadow Tracker View Post
-St00fz-
It'll be fun to shoot your arguments down and stuff it in my living room. =]

First of all my dear kid, yes, I do have a job in Bank of America. Part time, I work under my father but nonetheless.

Secondly, you're just shooting off your mouth, just trying to claw at random things, and trying to look smart. Read: Keynesian Economics and come back when you do.

Wikipedia explains it very easily. Or if that's too long, here's the important points.

Keynes argued that the solution to depression was to stimulate the economy ("inducement to invest") through some combination of two approaches: a reduction in interest rates, and government investment in infrastructure. Investment by government injects income, which results in more spending in the general economy, which in turn stimulates more production and investment involving still more income and spending and so forth. The initial stimulation starts a cascade of events, whose total increase in economic activity is a multiple of the original investment.

He argued that governments should solve problems in the short run rather than waiting for market forces (Here, the people/population) to do it in the long run, because "in the long run, we are all dead."


Just wondered...do you call saving as bad, and would not have any saving accounts in your bank if/when you grow up and become an adult, Shadow Tracker? Are you going to spend all of the money you earn?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SalvadorDalí View Post
I'd like to point out that Obama's original legislation was changed a lot by the Senate and House. So it isn't really just his fault. You'd have to blame the majority of the Senate and House.
Nothing would be more pleasing to me than to lie to you and see you happy, but as much as it pains me to tell you- this idea of yours is kind of wrong. What the Bush administration was doing were bailouts. Obama's adiminstration mostly focused on stimulus for the economy, and his administration drafted the stimulus package(s), which the house and Senate approved. Yes, I've been tracking the bill right to the finish. This was one of the bills the House/Senate did not draft.
__________________

Last edited by Snow Fairy Sugar; 02-20-2009 at 09:15 PM.
  #9  
Old 02-20-2009, 09:49 PM
Lord Celebi's Avatar
Lord Celebi Offline
Zhu-Quiao
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 13,317
Send a message via AIM to Lord Celebi Send a message via Skype™ to Lord Celebi
Default Re: Obama's Stimulus Package: Direct Translation

I thought there was more money to boost the alternative energy industry's infrastructure. That's where the economic boom is going to be in the next five years.
  #10  
Old 02-21-2009, 11:56 PM
Snow Fairy Sugar's Avatar
Snow Fairy Sugar Offline
Elite Trainer (Level 5)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Land of the Blue Roses
Posts: 5,865
Send a message via AIM to Snow Fairy Sugar Send a message via MSN to Snow Fairy Sugar Send a message via Yahoo to Snow Fairy Sugar
Default Re: Obama's Stimulus Package: Direct Translation

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreal Shadow Tracker View Post
-Stuff-
I really love how you have to resort to personal attacks, because you've got no way of defeating me in an argument about Finance. :3 Yes, one of us is going to keep this civil. Why not talk about the topic instead, instead of whining and launching personal digs? Probably because you don't know a hoot, and you think you do. :D

@ Rust: Good idea, thanks, I'll go and check some probable companies out.
__________________
  #11  
Old 02-22-2009, 01:41 AM
Bryce's Avatar
Bryce Offline
Elite Trainer (Level 4)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: :sexface:
Posts: 4,427
Send a message via AIM to Bryce
Default Re: Obama's Stimulus Package: Direct Translation

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Unreal Shadow Tracker View Post
Stuff
Wow. Did this post accomplish anything other than establishing your ignorance and obvious lack of respect?
That post established an infraction. Now as for you, don't bother replying to that. Thanks.

Personally, I'm not that worried about the economy and... stuff. I think it'll all work itself out eventually, whether Obama's Stimulus Package has an effect on that or not.
__________________
:D

BRYCExKAT

Last edited by Kenny_C.002; 02-22-2009 at 01:59 AM.
  #12  
Old 02-22-2009, 02:12 AM
Lord Celebi's Avatar
Lord Celebi Offline
Zhu-Quiao
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 13,317
Send a message via AIM to Lord Celebi Send a message via Skype™ to Lord Celebi
Default Re: Obama's Stimulus Package: Direct Translation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Fairy Sugar View Post

@ Rust: Good idea, thanks, I'll go and check some probable companies out.
I have a site with stock information on alternative energy companies. I can share it with you if you want.
  #13  
Old 02-22-2009, 02:27 AM
Kenny_C.002's Avatar
Kenny_C.002 Offline
/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Hina <3
Posts: 12,268
Send a message via AIM to Kenny_C.002
Default Re: Obama's Stimulus Package: Direct Translation

I have major issues with the 1930's economic meltdown's conclusion. Is it REALLY about those factors? Or does the second world war actually have more to do with it?

The second issue is that we should look at the 1970's and how that bubble's collapse has anything to do with it, shouldn't we?

Thirdly, isn't it counter productive to even bother a stimulus package like this when people are just going to be laid off anyway, considering that this is the vicious cycle we speak of (where people spend less, causing more lay-offs in all sectors, which in turn cause people to spend even less as a population, causing more lay-offs, etc.)? This has been shown in more concentrated areas (read: rural economies) in places such as Iroquois Falls (example taken from "contingent work, disrupted lives"), so can this actually be applied in a multinational scale?

There are way more questions that I don't think anybody is considering as potential problems with the financial situation, including myself. I don't think that any plan Obama has would work, unless under some miraculous fluke.
  #14  
Old 02-22-2009, 09:43 PM
Professor Geoffrey's Avatar
Professor Geoffrey Offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: My laboratory.
Posts: 6,512
Send a message via AIM to Professor Geoffrey
Default Re: Obama's Stimulus Package: Direct Translation

I generally don't think the bill can bring much good if any. That bill is over 1,500 pages long. You honestly think everyone read it? That's like reading Harry Potter and The Order of the Phoenix twice, if it's that size. Four times if it's on eight and a half by eleven. Think of all the subsections and footnotes it could have...


([.::G::.])
__________________
❒ SINGLE ❒ TAKEN ✔ LAPRAS RIDER
The Professor of Pokémon Elite 2000.
  #15  
Old 02-22-2009, 09:47 PM
iReign's Avatar
iReign Offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: hmm
Posts: 2,193
Send a message via AIM to iReign Send a message via MSN to iReign Send a message via Skype™ to iReign
Default Re: Obama's Stimulus Package: Direct Translation

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Requiem of Verities View Post
I generally don't think the bill can bring much good if any. That bill is over 1,500 pages long. You honestly think everyone read it? That's like reading Harry Potter and The Order of the Phoenix twice, if it's that size. Four times if it's on eight and a half by eleven. Think of all the subsections and footnotes it could have...


([.::G::.])
The man actually tries to do some good for this country, and it seems you've looked past that.
__________________

life is a btch, but i appreciate her
AIM: ireignorshine
urpg
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Style Design: AlienSector.com